Death Penalty Poll

[ktr]

 

20 min days, ouch. I may be in the minority here, but I don't consider the penalty as a drag, rather as something of a natural consequence and I still can fully enjoy playing while having it. Not to mention that those buff scrolls are pretty imbalanced and almost trivialize it.

 

Same argument was used for the progression rate - surely you don't believe that in that case, the rate should be balanced around the people who have the smallest amount of free time to play?

 

What I am trying to say is that gratification should come from general gameplay itself in such games (that is the case for me already), else all casuls like us, would be doomed to playing candy crash saga, just to watch those sweets(?) disappear into points during our brief playsession.

 

I think this death penalty is better than the wellness hits. Wellness was, IMO, too easily boosted to be much of a consequence. This death penalty makes me be much more cautious which I expect in a survival game. My only issue with it is that it does effect crafting as well. I'd rather see it make crafting take longer than affect what I can craft. And I can see where having play time limited to less than an hour would make that even more frustrating.

 

If the death penalty keeps a player from the general gameplay they find most gratifying, (such as being unable to craft the things you need to use in the build you really want to do) then it's hard to find satisfaction.

 

I'm pretty happy with the 30 minutes. That gives me a stern reminder to not get too cocky (like a recent time with a bear....), but doesn't hamper my gameplay for a period that enters into the 'eugh is the over yet' time.

[RestInPieces]

Grandstanding much?

 

Contrary to what Gazz thinks, there was already a significant death penalty in this game. For a lot of us, myself included, it was a good enough reason not to die at all. Even stronger reason was that if you didn't die, you'd get stronger hordes == better loot.

 

I understand that in shorter nomadic games wellness may not have mattered much, but it sure as hell mattered in the latter stages of long games during horde nights when you got sprayed by multiple cops while trying to bash some dogs.

 

It's not something subjective, it is as objective as math. Besides the inventory loss which was very circumstantial, there wasn't really a penalty.

 

-The purpose of wellness was making you harder to die (stamina was never a problem), but death itself was actually beneficial resetting your status from negative debuffs.

 

-If you wanted to stay alive (with which wellness did help) and cared about wellness to get stronger hordes for better loot, you have to ask yourself what is the point of better loot? Is it not to make your survival easier AKA avoid death?

 

-Losing wellness made it a little harder to avoid death, a beneficial thing.

 

I hope you can see that the system did not compute.

[Limdood]

I voted that no penalty is best but I'll still play...BUT that's not really totally true...I won't play...I'll console command remove that POS debuff every time it appears.

 

I already have to run back to EXACTLY WHAT KILLED ME, and now do it without gear, which would already strain credibility if the zombies didn't tend to wander off and let me grab it most of the time, To make me do that (which with the travel time issues takes several in game hours already) with a debuff AND no gear...F that.

 

Also, liking the vulnerability after death that the debuff gives? being naked and gearless is pretty darned vulnerable.

[OldManBrian]

Those filthy casuls! (I am one of them nowadays )

 

 

 

20 min days, ouch. I may be in the minority here, but I don't consider the penalty as a drag, rather as something of a natural consequence and I still can fully enjoy playing while having it. Not to mention that those buff scrolls are pretty imbalanced and almost trivialize it.

 

Same argument was used for the progression rate - surely you don't believe that in that case, the rate should be balanced around the people who have the smallest amount of free time to play?

 

What I am trying to say is that gratification should come from general gameplay itself in such games (that is the case for me already), else all casuls like us, would be doomed to playing candy crash saga, just to watch those sweets(?) disappear into points during our brief playsession.

 

I just think the death penalty should be tied to a setting due to different playstyles, just like all the other settings are for when you start a game. But honestly I don't really care *too* much since it is so easy for me to mod it, and 30 min is already much better than 60, but I'll personally be changing it to 20 for myself as that's a full game day for me.

[LuckyStar]

Well, not "EVERYONE". I continue playing the game

 

The way I see it, if I die in the game then I made a mistake, or didn't calculate the danger correctly. I'll take my lumps and learn from it hoping to improve next time. Just like in life, actions have consequences and instead of standing around complaining, blaming others and crying "it's not fair", I put on my big boy pants and continue on.

 

As I tell my son, "Can't" never got the job done. Think about the problem, adjust your approach and overcome the obstacle. Can't is for quitters.

 

This uproar over the death penalty is not a game problem, it's a societal problem.

 

I agree.

 

One of the problems with technology is that people forget how to use Critical thinking.

Ask some Millennials and they won't even be able to tell you what that means.

 

It's one thing to struggle solving a problem, it's a much bigger thing to not even know how to go about asking the right questions.

 

Now we see people upset because they can't just google their way out of a tough situation.

Sorry if that upsets people but... too bad.

 

I think the Death penalty SUCKS but that's what makes me like it.

Now I'm scared of dying so I'm playing a more tactical game.

Guess that doesn't work with day fly attention span run-and-gunners.

 

 

Grandstanding much?

 

Contrary to what Gazz thinks, there was already a significant death penalty in this game. For a lot of us, myself included, it was a good enough reason not to die at all. Even stronger reason was that if you didn't die, you'd get stronger hordes == better loot.

 

I understand that in shorter nomadic games wellness may not have mattered much, but it sure as hell mattered in the latter stages of long games during horde nights when you got sprayed by multiple cops while trying to bash some dogs.

 

What a load of bullcrap!

 

People died on purpose to get rid of sickness or fast travel because there was no penalty.

[RestInPieces]

I think this death penalty is better than the wellness hits. Wellness was, IMO, too easily boosted to be much of a consequence. This death penalty makes me be much more cautious which I expect in a survival game. My only issue with it is that it does effect crafting as well. I'd rather see it make crafting take longer than affect what I can craft. And I can see where having play time limited to less than an hour would make that even more frustrating.

 

If the death penalty keeps a player from the general gameplay they find most gratifying, (such as being unable to craft the things you need to use in the build you really want to do) then it's hard to find satisfaction.

 

I'm pretty happy with the 30 minutes. That gives me a stern reminder to not get too cocky (like a recent time with a bear....), but doesn't hamper my gameplay for a period that enters into the 'eugh is the over yet' time.

 

Yep, that's a valid reason of why one may not like the death penalty - crafting. However the penalty must be something that deeply affects the player. Haven't thought of a better way to achieve that than this one. But then again there are also equipment and buff scrolls which help you raise your attributes.

 

I voted that no penalty is best but I'll still play...BUT that's not really totally true...I won't play...I'll console command remove that POS debuff every time it appears.

 

I already have to run back to EXACTLY WHAT KILLED ME, and now do it without gear, which would already strain credibility if the zombies didn't tend to wander off and let me grab it most of the time, To make me do that (which with the travel time issues takes several in game hours already) with a debuff AND no gear...F that.

 

Also, liking the vulnerability after death that the debuff gives? being naked and gearless is pretty darned vulnerable.

 

I am usually playing with "delete inventory" - I just see to that I always have spare equipment. And that is the only case death stings a little with this setting - when you suddenly die exploring while having stuff you want to store in your base. In any other case, like dying when defending, it's not much of a penalty.

[Exxodous]

Grandstanding much?

 

Nope, just my way of looking at things in game and life in a positive manner. Looking for solutions I can control seems much more productive than complaining and hoping someone else will solve my problems.

 

Stronger hordes didn't bring "better loot" IMO, just more of the same loot. I like the new way better.

 

There are some things in A17 I would have done differently if I was designing it. I'll either mod it or find a modlet that fixes it more to my liking. Or I could spend days on end complaining (to no avail most likely) wasting my time as well as others.

 

There are plenty of people who have given constructive feedback about things they don't like, which is great. But they do not go on and on and on complaining. Some people (Jax and Guppy come to mind) find interesting solutions to solve, what in their mind is a game shortcoming, and on top of that share it with all of us in case we feel the same way. Those are the type of people whom I respect even when I don't agree with their particular opinion on game issues because they are doing something positive to effect change.

 

edit: Not to exclude the many great modders on the forums, there are alot of people doing great things for the game btw. I chose Jax and Guppy because they often share their critical thoughts without beating a dead horse (level loot notwithstanding, lol) and then do something about it.

[RestInPieces]

I just think the death penalty should be tied to a setting due to different playstyles, just like all the other settings are for when you start a game. But honestly I don't really care *too* much since it is so easy for me to mod it, and 30 min is already much better than 60, but I'll personally be changing it to 20 for myself as that's a full game day for me.

 

I wouldn't like that because, personally, while I enjoy the full penalty, I don't enjoy bullet sponge zombies on the highest difficulty :/ But I could just edit the XML too.

[LuckyStar]

I'm actually hoping to see an option to play "dead is dead."

 

You die, your save it deleted.

 

Now that is a harsh penalty.

 

It's fun though.

Scary as heck to try anything outside especially setting zombies to always run.

[Though that was A16. I think A17 you'd pretty much die in the first three days every time.]

[Ricowan]

I voted for 15 minutes instead of 30, however if the penalty was applied to only one of the attributes (at random) instead of all of them, I would keep it at 30. If we can't control how the penalty is applied... it's incredibly easy to change the XML, so the default time isn't a big deal overall.

[Krougal]

People are picking on the moderators for having opinions. Dunno why.

 

You been here longer than I have, you already know EVERYTHING is Roland's fault, always!

 

Seriously though, because people consider mods to be devs and thus everything they say must be 100% accurate and reflect the devs views 100% at all times and they should be perfect people who never make mistakes or are allowed to change their mind or have bad days like the rest of us...

[RestInPieces]

I'm actually hoping to see an option to play "dead is dead."

 

You die, your save it deleted.

 

Now that is a harsh penalty.

 

It's fun though.

Scary as heck to try anything outside especially setting zombies to always run.

[Though that was A16. I think A17 you'd pretty much die in the first three days every time.]

 

I would enjoy that a lot on my SP playthroughs.

[Cadamier]

Hello! I voted for the 15 minute timer cause one out of 9 wants it longer and the rest of us (8) would like it much shorter for many reasons. A few of us had multiple deaths and that penalty seems to way harsh as it is but way too long. Maybe from 15 min for the initial death and effecting one stat and then after another the length stacks and another attribute is penalized? Might be a bit better...

[Poojam]

Well, that's just life. I mean TFP is already softening the game down and making it less brutal than it was. That means that all the people who liked it more brutal are going Ugh because all the people who wanted it easier are getting their way. There will always be one segment ughing due to another segment being happy with changes.

 

Well you have to be careful here because a penalty isn't a penalty if people like it. I WANT the penalty in the game because it makes death more meaningful and I recognize the importance of that. But I'm not whooping in delight when I die and get to spend the next 30 minutes playing as a more vulnerable character.

 

The telling stat is not who likes or dislikes the penalty it is who would not play A17 at all because of it either by reverting to a previous version or uninstalling the game altogether. Everyone else can stomach it and continue to play and by hating it they will try all the more to be careful when death is on the line. So far only 2.3% say they dislike it so much they'll stop playing. Modders don't count because they're willing to change the game however they wish and they will continue to play A17 modded.

 

Even if this forum doesn't accurately reflect the community, 2.3% isn't going to change that much. If you know more people who will quit over this feature then get them on to vote.

 

 

 

Misquoting me to push your continuing agenda shows yours. I never said that the ones who really count as disliking the death penalty are the ones willing to uninstall the game because of it.

 

I said that the most important group to TFP are going to be those who will avoid A17 altogether either by uninstalling it or reverting back to a previous version. Those are the most extremely unhappy customers and thankfully that pool in this particular sample is very small. From the poll it appears that the 30 minute compromise is acceptable to most people. Those who voted for 15 minutes or less said the penalty is fine but they would prefer it to be shorter. I would guess that if TFP makes the 30 minute timer official in stable, that most of the people who feel the penalty is fine but would like it to be shorter will be able to live with 30 minutes especially as they adapt and die less often. Some of those who decide they can't will probably mod it lower rather than uninstall or revert to a different version. With modlets, being able to change the timer will be almost as easy as changing an option in a menu. It's kind of like the onscreen hunger and thirst bars. TFP doesn't want them but tons of people don't like that but they play anyway and many mod it back in.

 

Again I'm not saying that the only people unhappy with the penalty are those who would uninstall. That's you putting words in my mouth probably mistakenly.

 

I've re-read your earlier statement. Pasted it above in green.

 

I stand by my accusation. What you were interested in was determining who hates it enough to quit. Not simply what the playerbase thinks the value should be.

 

When you say that the 30 minute compromise is acceptable to MOST people, you are putting your own spin on this poll. The next poll option down states no longer than 15 minutes. Not 15 minutes is best. So that response category should be counted as is inclusive of the categories below 15 minutes, which are setup in such a way to gage the level of dissatisfaction. You kinda beefed the way you setup these options to support your statement.

 

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)

 

It is accurate to say 67% of players think it should be something other 30 minutes. (~2/3rds of all voters)

 

It is fair to say only 12% of players think it should be more than 30 minutes, which is the what was originally released. (one in 8 players)

 

It is fair to say 9% of players want a different set of rules. (~ one in 10 players)

 

It is not accurate to say that 30 minutes is acceptable to most players. Only 1 in 3 players advocates for 30 minute death timer.

 

I thought you were a math whiz?

[LuckyStar]

I've re-read your earlier statement. Pasted it above in green.

 

I stand by my accusation.

 

When you say that the 30 minute compromise is acceptable to MOST people, you are putting your own spin on this poll. The next poll option down states no longer than 15 minutes. Not 15 minutes is best. So that response category should be counted as is inclusive of the categories below 15 minutes, which are setup in such a way to gage the level of dissatisfaction. You kinda beefed the way you setup these options to support your statement.

 

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)

 

It is accurate to say 67% of players think it should be something other 30 minutes. (~2/3rds of all voters)

 

It is fair to say only 12% of players think it should be more than 30 minutes, which is the what was originally released. (one in 8 players)

 

It is fair to say 9% of players want a different set of rules. (~ one in 10 players)

 

It is not accurate to say that 30 minutes is acceptable to most players. Only 1 in 3 players advocates for 30 minute death timer.

 

I thought you were a math whiz?

 

Those statistics don't necessarily represent the truth.

Right now we're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to something new.

 

I think a far bigger mistake would be for TFP to over compensate and end up with another A16 where it was just too easy.

 

I'm not going to dispute what you posted. Those numbers are indeed.... numbers and percentages of things and stuff.

I'll give you that.

 

How about some incremental changes.... see what people think... then we go from there?

 

Does that sound reasonable to you?

[Poojam]

Those statistics don't necessarily represent the truth.

Right now we're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to something new.

 

I think a far bigger mistake would be for TFP to over compensate and end up with another A16 where it was just too easy.

 

I'm not going to dispute what you posted. Those numbers are indeed.... numbers and percentages of things and stuff.

I'll give you that.

 

How about some incremental changes.... see what people think... then we go from there.

 

Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?

 

Where were the polls during A16 where it said "should we change the death penalty to be 60 minutes?"

[LuckyStar]

Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

Where were the polls during A16 where it said "should we change the death penalty to be 60 minutes?"

 

No I agree that there's some merit to poles and those numbers have value.

 

I guess what I'm suggesting is that we weigh them properly.

 

Those numbers don't take into account the initial reaction of a player base that, once they settle into A17 and get used to a new system, may very well want something different.

 

That's the problem with statistics. They don't always take into account the "Human Factor".

 

TFP made a compromise decision and I feel it was a good one.

They didn't remove the penalty, they cut it in half.

That's exactly what they should have done.

 

Now we wait and see .....

 

Maybe they adjust it again.. maybe they make it subjective to difficulty level... maybe nothing.

[Krougal]

I agree.

 

One of the problems with technology is that people forget how to use Critical thinking.

Ask some Millennials and they won't even be able to tell you what that means.

 

It's one thing to struggle solving a problem, it's a much bigger thing to not even know how to go about asking the right questions.

 

Now we see people upset because they can't just google their way out of a tough situation.

Sorry if that upsets people but... too bad.

 

I think the Death penalty SUCKS but that's what makes me like it.

Now I'm scared of dying so I'm playing a more tactical game.

Guess that doesn't work with day fly attention span run-and-gunners.

 

 

 

 

What a load of bullcrap!

 

People died on purpose to get rid of sickness or fast travel because there was no penalty.

 

Normally I would agree with you and the other guy about the first part, but this is a friggin video game.

 

No penalty? When you work very hard to max your wellness, plus the diminishing rate of raising higher wellness, let me tell you, 10 points of wellness was BRUTAL. Multiple deaths would be downright ragequit material. No penalty for you 70 wellness scrubs maybe. Pffft.

 

Yep, that's a valid reason of why one may not like the death penalty - crafting. However the penalty must be something that deeply affects the player. Haven't thought of a better way to achieve that than this one. But then again there are also equipment and buff scrolls which help you raise your attributes.

 

 

 

I am usually playing with "delete inventory" - I just see to that I always have spare equipment. And that is the only case death stings a little with this setting - when you suddenly die exploring while having stuff you want to store in your base. In any other case, like dying when defending, it's not much of a penalty.

 

Well that's a good option for people who don't think the penalty is severe enough. It's like death is death lite. Also gives you a reason to keep spares instead of selling everything.

 

I'm actually hoping to see an option to play "dead is dead."

 

You die, your save it deleted.

 

Now that is a harsh penalty.

 

It's fun though.

Scary as heck to try anything outside especially setting zombies to always run.

[Though that was A16. I think A17 you'd pretty much die in the first three days every time.]

 

You were just complaining about millenials a few posts back and now you're too lazy to go delete the save yourself? :eyeroll:

Seriously though, I know what you mean, I leave cheats off these days for the same reason unless I'm doing a creativemode thing cause otherwise I know the temptation is too strong to resist (and I don't feel like I die/lose ♥♥♥♥ to bugs as often in A17)

 

So polling so far condensing those who agree the penalty is ok vs those who think the penalty just blows donkey balls, it looks like most of us don't hate it completely. Yeah, it's a small sample size, but considering complainers are more likely to take the time to stop and vote, I'm surprised they're in the minority.

 

I gotta say the penalty bothers me much less in MP, where I more often feel when I die that is is my own fault as opposed to SP where I feel I die more at random (and I probably die in equal amounts either way).

[Poojam]

No I agree that there's some merit to poles and those numbers have value.

 

I guess what I'm suggesting is that we weigh them properly.

 

Those numbers don't take into account the initial reaction of a player base that, once they settle into A17 and get used to a new system, may very well want something different.

 

That's the problem with statistics. They don't always take into account the "Human Factor".

 

TFP made a compromise decision and I feel it was a good one.

They didn't remove the penalty, they cut it in half.

That's exactly what they should have done.

 

Now we wait and see .....

 

Maybe they adjust it again.. maybe they make it subjective to difficulty level... maybe nothing.

 

Just to clarify. This poll was started after they cut it in half.

[Exxodous]

 

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)?

 

This is not entirely accurate. 24% like the penalty but think it should be only 15 min. The remaining 22% want no penalty at all. They are not mutually inclusive.

 

Assuming TFP stays with the death penalty (which I hope they do) and lower it to 15 min, the 22 percent that want no penalty at all will still be upset regardless of the duration. Along with 35% that want it longer than 15 min.

 

So no matter what the end result is, the numbers in this poll show that the majority will not like it. Best they can do is make the most people possible happy and stick with the winning vote at 33% and leave it at 30 min.

 

A better poll would have been "do you like the death penalty (in some duration) or not". Death penalty proponents win out in this poll 68% to 32%

 

Statistics are great, they can be manipulated to support almost any argument.

[Poojam]

A lot of the people that killed themselves to remove the broken leg debuff was because it was too long, too restrictive to your movement, or it was often incurred by a bug. The loss to your wellness, gamestage, and inconvenience of having to transfer your stuff was simply less annoying than suffering for an hour of IRL play. I can think of many times where I struggled on with it splinted, only to have it rebroken with 2 minutes left on the counter as I stroll down a slightly steep hill or hop off a box. Bam. Get to wait another hour for it to heal. It wasn't fun.

 

Using that as a reason to make the death debuff worse is making the same bad decision twice.

[LuckyStar]

Just to clarify. This poll was started after they cut it in half.

 

Just to clarify, it was made just days after the release of A17.

 

I mean come on.

You want to play the pedantic game?

 

People are still in shock over this new system and you can't deny that some are over reacting.

 

Look I'm not saying you are wrong about wanting TFP to consider what they've done with A17.

There are some people who feel they aren't represented well with this new build.

 

I think what's more important is to take this a lot slower.

Give people a real chance to get used to A17 before crushing every change.

In time we may grow to love some of these things that are initially shocking.

[Poojam]

This is not entirely accurate. 24% like the penalty but think it should be only 15 min. The remaining 22% want no penalty at all. They are not mutually inclusive.

 

Assuming TFP stays with the death penalty (which I hope they do) and lower it to 15 min, the 22 percent that want no penalty at all will still be upset regardless of the duration. Along with 35% that want it longer than 15 min.

 

So no matter what the end result is, the numbers in this poll show that the majority will not like it. Best they can do is make the most people possible happy and stick with the winning vote at 33% and leave it at 30 min.

 

A better poll would have been "do you like the death penalty (in some duration) or not". Death penalty proponents win out in this poll 68% to 32%

 

Statistics are great, they can be manipulated to support almost any argument.

 

I would agree with you IF there was an option for saying the death penalty is fine for some value between 15 minutes and 0. It says "no more than 15 minutes". I tend to default my assessment back to saying that category is inclusive with the nays.

 

I completely agree that the poll is flawed. I can spot at least 3 different ways in which the data are left to interpretation.

 

One could also say that the people that were willing to quit, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Just to clarify, it was made just days after the release of A17.

 

It was created 1 day ago.... Look at the first page of this thread.

[Krougal]

Pretty much all polls are flawed, they're good to get an idea, but usually are constructed in a way to support whoever made the polls agenda. (not that I'm saying this one was)

 

I'd bet most of the people who said they would uninstall are like the celebs who said they would leave the USA; they're still be here.

[LuckyStar]

A17e released more than one day ago.

 

My POINT was that people are still reacting to a big change.

 

The AMOOOOOOOOUNT of single days in unimportant.

 

Do you see why Roland is often frustrated by your posts?

 

It's like you focus on

- a single letter

- in a word

- in a sentence

- in a paragraph

- on a page

- in a chapter

- in a novel

 

and you forget what you're reading.

 

Come on. Stay focused.

 

You were making some points... we were debating... then you [possibly] got high and lost track?

What?

 

What happened here?