Underground bases are still safe

[Mephistopheles]

Ok so I did some testing in creative mode. In previous alphas, bases and players were safe from detection on horde nights as long as you were 50m or so below the surface above. So if you were at -57 bedrock, as long as the ground above was -7 or greater, you could sit underground undetected during horde nights. So I decided to test all the hype about "Underground bases are no longer safe" that I've been hearing about a17, and here's what I found...

 

Day 7 horde I build a 11x11 simple hollowed out stone wall base at bedrock (which is now +3m). This was basically at the bottom of a big cliff, where the area above my base and bedroll had 90m of ground above it, but the tunnel to get down there was 20m north and much lower in elevation. So it would make sense, pathing wise, for the zombies to path through the side of the cliff rather than top down from the top of the 90m tall cliff, so I tested this pathing and found that

 

1. My stealth level was like 15 or so, I only had a few torches lit and my mining helmet off, I was crouched.

2. From 2200-0400 only 2 maybe 3 zombies were trying to path to me, despite the default 8 zombies for horde night being the active setting.

3. There were indeed pathing more horizontally from the bottom of the cliff, trying to work diagonally downward towards my location.

4. They were only able to destroy maybe 10-12 blocks (2 blocks high by 5-6 inward) of regular stone.

 

 

Day 14 horde, this time I built the same 11x11 rock wall base at bedrock (+3m). This time I put the tunnel to my base directly in the center, going up via ladder with no hatch on top to the ground above which was about 90m above. This time I just lit a few candles and my stealth level was 10 or less. Not a single zombie spawned or pathed towards me, which lead me to believe that perhaps the two zombies that did spawn and path to me on Day 7 horde, may have just been regular roaming spawns that were already there and active when 2200 triggered horde night.

 

 

I then timewarp to Day 42 and this time, I build a 11x11 rock wall underground base like before, but this time only 30m below the surface above. This time, I had a ladder going straight down 30m, then 30m or so north is where I built my base. So the ladder down was 30m away from the center of my base, not directly in the middle of it like on Day 14.

 

I heard a lot of zombie activity all night. My stealth level was 1. At 2300, two zombies had found and descended my ladder. Then at around 0300 I got hit by two zombies that had tunnelled directly down from 30m above. I killed them and two more that were still above tunnelling down towards me, and that's all the zeds that spawned to me that night. 0400 came and I found a tunnel 30m deep and approximately 2-3 blocks wide horizontally.

 

So I have to conclude that underground bases are indeed still perfectly safe, just make sure that they're 50+ meters below the surface above and you'll be fine.

[RestInPieces]

Can confirm. Made a base near the bedrock, made all the noise I could with forges running and all, but no zombie found me for 2 weeks.

[LuckyStar]

Can confirm. Made a base near the bedrock, made all the noise I could with forges running and all, but no zombie found me for 2 weeks.

 

It's for this reason I wanted to see something coming UP from bedrock.

Giant worms or something creepy!

That way you can still build underground but you need at least some defense to deal with the worms.

 

I dunno, A17 is a step in the right direction but it's still got a ways to go.

 

Not all that happy that there's NO base building anymore.

 

Perhaps it's time to Mod in some Trinium Walls and Naquida-enhanced turrets!

That'll teach em.

[Feycat]

It's for this reason I wanted to see something coming UP from bedrock.

Giant worms or something creepy!

That way you can still build underground but you need at least some defense to deal with the worms.

 

 

How does it hurt you if people want to build underground bases to avoid hordes?

 

This is what I don't understand. Why do devs or players CARE if someone else wants to do that?

 

I love fighting the 7 day hordes. I loved it more when I had more base options for active fighting, but I would never hide from it.

 

But I gives zero ♥♥♥♥s if someone else does. It doesn't affect me at all.

[LuckyStar]

How does it hurt you if people want to build underground bases to avoid hordes?

 

This is what I don't understand. Why do devs or players CARE if someone else wants to do that?

 

I love fighting the 7 day hordes. I loved it more when I had more base options for active fighting, but I would never hide from it.

 

But I gives zero ♥♥♥♥s if someone else does. It doesn't affect me at all.

 

WHOA!

Put the breaks on.

 

I'm not talking about preventing underground building altogether, just adding a little challenge.

Underground worms [or maggots ala RIP's suggestion] could be on Insane difficulty only or something.

That way you have them only if you want them.

 

I'm all for people playing the way they want.

I also build cool things underground for fun.

 

Chill out!

Think you're misreading my comment.

[SickPuppy]

U know the funny thing is, the fact zombies can dig now I actually WANT to build underground.

 

I hardly ever went underground a16, I fell asleep irl.

[wacojitsu]

Well that's just the thing. People do want to play different ways. and TFP has been for years now attempting to take those ways away. digging zombies. in what movie about zombies do they dig? hiding zombies has always been a thing. and if your out in the wilderness. when you make animal traps does that not make you smarter and faster at making the next trap? TFP should be encourging different play styles. but instead they are trying to cap them. no XP for crafting. 99% of all way you got XP are either gone or give such a tiny percentage that it's not even worth mentioning. Now the only way to lvl is to kill zombies which don't even give loot. It's like they don't even play their own game. why wants to kill 20 thousand zombies for each server or each time you play this game. that's it. this game is just a zombie killing game. crafting is back seat because you will alwas find better then you can craft. sandbox, hahaha what sandbox this is a railshooter with ♥♥♥♥ty graphics now. roleplaying? sure if you enjoy the insane lag on multiplayer servers. Everysingle time a zombie spawns everyone in the area freezes for a full 1 second. is this a loot game now? it sure use to be. But now a any food you loot is posion and all weapons and gear do the same damage/protection. End game. same as last. All you can obtain for killing your 12000 zombies is that you can mod your weapons.

If only the TFP actually played their game without godmode on.

[Poojam]

So I have to conclude that underground bases are indeed still perfectly safe, just make sure that they're 50+ meters below the surface above and you'll be fine.

 

I think there are two or maybe three other concerns regarding the digging of zombies you're overlooking.

 

The first is the notion that you won't be bothered in your underground base. It's secure from the world for the most part, so to speak. I can understand and appreciate the sentiment. Underground bases/hiding was your time to focus on resources/securing your assets and you had the freedom to engage/disengage the zombie apocalypse on your terms if you just dug deep enough. There was a post from an older lady today about this very issue, and her concern was largely dismissed by the responders.

 

........... Truth is that in digging to bedrock, I am enjoying the game MY way. Please give us the option to turn the digging on or off.

 

The second is that you'd rather not be bothered while mining and dealing with constant aggro that is severely messing up your lawn above.

 

The third, which is my beef, is that the zombie aggro or zombie damage gives away your position. Your hidey hole is now very easily found on servers where someone is looking to raid. The best defense you have, particularly as a newbie, on a mp server was not being found in the first place. Most players wouldn't even put their land claim block down, and would replace the entrance dirt/snow/sand every time they left their base. Now, there is just about guaranteed to be disturbed earth above you at any given day. You often can't repair the ground surface to pristine condition either, and players with a good eye can see it from a mile away.

 

I love raiding, so it's a mixed bag for me. It is much easier to find bases to raid now. But I worry that it will lead to a lot of discouraged newbies from enjoying multiplayer servers when they're hidey holes are regularly being found and raided. I would be more in favor of no digging and other methods for making it easier to discover hidden bases (footprints, increased sound radii, smoke from equipment, louder power tools/forges).

[RestInPieces]

It's for this reason I wanted to see something coming UP from bedrock.

Giant worms or something creepy!

That way you can still build underground but you need at least some defense to deal with the worms.

That'll teach em.

 

Aye aye, a visually indicated maggot infestation spreading on blocks in the underground and near the bedrock huge maggot entities sometimes emerging above (from which you can defend ofc). That would be something to experience!

 

And atm, with digging zombies, another problem is that they dig straight down and ignore any clear paths even if they can reach you. Their AI must be fixed. A spiral stairway with defenses going downwards with a clear path to you for example, should be a valid way to defend an underground base, but you can't really do that if they circumvent it.

 

How does it hurt you if people want to build underground bases to avoid hordes?

 

This is what I don't understand. Why do devs or players CARE if someone else wants to do that?

 

I love fighting the 7 day hordes. I loved it more when I had more base options for active fighting, but I would never hide from it.

 

But I gives zero ♥♥♥♥s if someone else does. It doesn't affect me at all.

 

But what's even more creepy than maggots is people assuming we care about what they do when they play at their computer!

[ReginaSilver]

I don't get it.

 

If you want to play a mole and NEVER EVER see any Zed going down just disable them in the options and/or go invisible (godmode option) during the horde nights.

 

What is the point of living underground and moaning about Zeds going down to you?

 

Zeds not being able to find you in earlier builds is kind of exploity anyways, might as well go invisible and enjoy this kind of playstyle if that's what you want.

[Sawth77]

A couple of things...

 

The lady being ignored when she brought it up was unfortunate. She was making a valid point about her circumstances and playstyle, and people crapped all over it. Was poor form by those folks, and hopefully she can find some balance in her gameplay going forward.

 

Far as digging down, making bases underground, etc...honestly, i'm 50/50 on it. I like fighting zombies and building defensible positions to challenge horde nights, but at the same time it's nice to have a spot where i can go and focus on crafting without constantly having to make sure a zombie didn't waltz through concrete with almost no noise. Once some adjustments are made, i'm sure it'll tone down, but at present it's making things rather interesting.

 

On consoles, however, you're almost encouraged to do things underground. Every town has at least one bunker underground, fully wrapped in concrete and generally makes for a safe place. The larger bunker was found at an entrance to a well. Knock the well down so everything is flat, build a hatch, and you're done. At the end of the day, i used those to craft, but all of my base building (as it was then, which was kinda cheesy, lets be honest) and defense was done above ground.

 

Some people like that playstyle, some don't. Still really liking the current content, overall, but there's some work to be done on these fronts.

 

(Edit: about 20 minutes after posting this, found the exact bunker i was talking about lol, nice to see it's there)

[Latheos]

I'm a fan of undergound bases myself, with some caveats.

 

First, the primary reason for making an underground base is as others have noted: to be able to craft unmolested by the wandering hordes. This lets me build the weapons and ammo that I need when I *do* fight them.

Secondly, though, once I've dug out a nice, deep space for my crafting, I then drive out horizontal tunnels in convenient directions, then excavate back up to the surface to make fighting positions, with (eventually) gun turrets and traps for the horde nights. Sure, it takes me a while to get things set up, but it lets me fight the zombies on my own terms without sacrificing my crafting spaces. Nest of both worlds, really.

 

Of course, it really depends on the map. Sometimes I'll find a really spectacular POI that I decide to fortify, and never get around to making an underground space. I like that I have a number of different ways to enjoy the game.

 

For those kvetching about the current state of A17, do please remember we're looking at an experimental build. There are a ton of things that still remain to be balanced, tested, and implemented before we get to a stable release, so naturally some things are either working strangely or not at all. It'll get there. Complaining about how the game doesn't behave the way a stable build does is pointless. Of COURSE it doesn't work properly. Experimental, remember?

[Sellsents]

The Problem is not only beeing able to build a safe underground base, its also getting a simple mine going. I play this game for almost 3000 hours now and I was always able to dig a mine near my base and I stayed there during the night, mining my ass of so I could build my base during the day or work on my defenses. This is simply not possible anymore. Madmole once said, that they plan to add more rocks and ressources to the surface so people will have the choice to get their ressources not only from digging down. At that time his statement was fine by me, because it gave people a choice: stay above ground or dig down. Do it the way you like to play the game. But now it seems, that TFP tries desperatly to force people to stay above ground all the time so they can turn this beautiful voxelgame into a pur zombie slaughter game. Limited looting, limited ressourcegathering, limited building options, limited crafting, limited leveling, limited everything, besides slaughtering zombies all day for xp.

 

Turning this game from a voxel game into a Zombie Shooter is as if microsoft would try to take away all blocks in minecraft. You simply can´t just turn a game that worked for years as a voxel game into something else.

 

People don´t have to get why other people want a safe underground base ore mine all day long. They just have to acept it because it was always a part of 7 Days to Die because it is a voxel game. Its the heart of this game and can´t be ripped out easily.

[Katitof]

Well then, lets hope MM gets the message then, because that would be biggest disappointment of A17 so far.

[DatDamnDutchie]

I don't get it.

 

If you want to play a mole and NEVER EVER see any Zed going down just disable them in the options and/or go invisible (godmode option) during the horde nights.

 

What is the point of living underground and moaning about Zeds going down to you?

 

Zeds not being able to find you in earlier builds is kind of exploity anyways, might as well go invisible and enjoy this kind of playstyle if that's what you want.

 

You dont have to get it? It's not about moaning, to me it's a trade off. You want to dig down and sit in a deep, depressing, no-daylight home, then you should be safe. I have made several underground bases and never stayed in them, just more for backup bases.

 

Also, it was always just as easy to have a surface base that was unbeatable. The little I played in A16 I just plonked my bum on a tall skyscraper and never had to build defenses. In fact, I never even heard the horde because I was so high up. Next day I wuold just repair a bit, and be done.

Other patches I made lakehouses on stilts with logspikes under it, never had to fire a shot. (This still seems to work well) Or if its a big lake, the game couldnt even spawn a horde.

 

I get it the game is about surviving that 7 day horde and it should be challenging, but if you're willing to dig down and sit in a dark hole, then you should be relatively safe IMO. Not everyone wants to fight them headon, some prefer to find ways to stay undetected. Recommending Invisible mode makes that completely pointless.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The Problem is not only beeing able to build a safe underground base, its also getting a simple mine going. I play this game for almost 3000 hours now and I was always able to dig a mine near my base and I stayed there during the night, mining my ass of so I could build my base during the day or work on my defenses. This is simply not possible anymore. Madmole once said, that they plan to add more rocks and ressources to the surface so people will have the choice to get their ressources not only from digging down. At that time his statement was fine by me, because it gave people a choice: stay above ground or dig down. Do it the way you like to play the game. But now it seems, that TFP tries desperatly to force people to stay above ground all the time so they can turn this beautiful voxelgame into a pur zombie slaughter game. Limited looting, limited ressourcegathering, limited building options, limited crafting, limited leveling, limited everything, besides slaughtering zombies all day for xp.

 

Turning this game from a voxel game into a Zombie Shooter is as if microsoft would try to take away all blocks in minecraft. You simply can´t just turn a game that worked for years as a voxel game into something else.

 

People don´t have to get why other people want a safe underground base ore mine all day long. They just have to acept it because it was always a part of 7 Days to Die because it is a voxel game. Its the heart of this game and can´t be ripped out easily.

 

I havent dabbed into A17 much yet and kinda skipped A16 alltogether, but from waht I've been reading these days, you are right sadly.

[Sergoros]

I don't get it.

 

If you want to play a mole and NEVER EVER see any Zed going down just disable them in the options and/or go invisible (godmode option) during the horde nights.

 

What is the point of living underground and moaning about Zeds going down to you?

 

Zeds not being able to find you in earlier builds is kind of exploity anyways, might as well go invisible and enjoy this kind of playstyle if that's what you want.

 

Its not about NEVER seeing zeds. Its about you not wanting them to bother you underground. Fighting them above ground is interesting and fair game. Underground...let people rest.

[Mephistopheles]

The third, which is my beef, is that the zombie aggro or zombie damage gives away your position. Your hidey hole is now very easily found on servers where someone is looking to raid. The best defense you have, particularly as a newbie, on a mp server was not being found in the first place. Most players wouldn't even put their land claim block down, and would replace the entrance dirt/snow/sand every time they left their base. Now, there is just about guaranteed to be disturbed earth above you at any given day. You often can't repair the ground surface to pristine condition either, and players with a good eye can see it from a mile away.

 

I should have clarified a little better in my descriptions of zombie activities. As long as you are 50+ meters below the ground above, and you're not <50m from the side of a cliff, there will be ZERO zombie aggro, and ZERO zombie digging and disturbing the ground leading to you, just like it was in A16. Sure, they can dig now, but detection and pathing still seems to be tied to the 50m mark like before. So zombies could have augers, but if there is 50m of ground between you and them in all directions, they won't even know you're there.

[RestInPieces]

The underground debate has been discussed to death.

 

Gist is:

 

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games.

7 Days to Die thrusts players into the aftermath of the fall of civilization with only their wits and bare hands to survive.

 

I trust you know what the words in bold mean and perhaps have played similar games of these genres. What you describe about being bothered only when you choose to be bothered, could describe a pure sandbox rpg, but it definitely doesn't describe these genres. It invalidates their core mechanics.

 

Now as I said in another thread, I am all for a sandbox mode option, something in-between creative/survival mode. But you have to realize it is very narrow-minded even to ask such a thing for the survival mode, because there are a lot of people who choose that mode for what its name describes.

 

Now what the OP describes is a problem, as is the zombie AI digging downwards and ignoring clear paths, that could have been used to effectively defend an underground base.

[Pizzalicious]

dig a moat around your base with spikes/traps at bottom and surround the main part of your base in reinforced concrete with place you can repair them, add in gun ports for turrets or yourself or both and youll be safe underground, they cant get to you. Make it wide enough so spiders just jump into the pit and you're golden. GG on new ai

[LuckyStar]

... I would be more in favor of no digging and other methods for making it easier to discover hidden bases (footprints, increased sound radii, smoke from equipment, louder power tools/forges).

 

I'd really love to this this as an option for PvP servers.

[pApA^LeGBa]

No one will not buy the game because others could play safe. Espcially not in SP/Coop focused games.

 

People will not buy the game if they think it is too hard tough.

 

Just saying.

 

Also i think there is waaaay more importnant things than caring about what others do in the game. It´s not like you have to go underground.

 

Don´t like it? Don´t do it.

 

It´s a shame that they wasted time with this, when there is so many other things to take care off that effect all playstyles.

 

PvP needs an extramode, nothing should be changed in SP/CooP mode only to balance/fix a PvP problem. This goes for everything in the game.

 

Not saying i want indestructible super safe underground bases only, but don´t fix this right now, and imo there needs to be another solution than digging zombies. It´s a fkn cheap way.

 

Will always lead to swiss cheese. Wich is not taking away underground bases. But it makes them VERY unattractive to play with. (ofc i am assuming here that is is intended that the Z`s get you, no matter how deep) You either rebuild your base elsewhere all the time or you constantly fill holes. Both not very inviting tasks to motivate you to play/buy the game. Basically the same as making underground impossible.

[Krougal]

I still don't see why there is so much hate for it. Digging down to bedrock and then digging out a base is a ♥♥♥♥ing chore. Think you deserve somewhere to craft in peace and quiet after that.

 

Especially now in A17, let's say you got the lvl 2 mining & cardio perks, found a steel pick, shovel and a stack of beer (and considering beer lasts 30 seconds that doesn't help much)...how long in real time does it take to dig yourself down and establish a small base?

[Bubbahotetp]

I still don't see why there is so much hate for it. Digging down to bedrock and then digging out a base is a ♥♥♥♥ing chore. Think you deserve somewhere to craft in peace and quiet after that.

 

Especially now in A17, let's say you got the lvl 2 mining & cardio perks, found a steel pick, shovel and a stack of beer (and considering beer lasts 30 seconds that doesn't help much)...how long in real time does it take to dig yourself down and establish a small base?

 

+1 If someone thinks that digging to bedrock and digging a cave system with a stone axe is for suckers then they haven't done it. Those are the people who would give up after an hour. It takes real life days to do that!

[Dazrael21]

Yeah, I have always used underground bases. But not to hide from the horde - I love fighting the horde, and it's a good source of XP. I have never hidden from a BM horde underground, and I would usually emerge to fight a wandering horde when it hit my surface fortress even in end game. The only time I didn't come up to fight wanderers was if my base was so tough they were doomed anyway.

 

The reason I want an underground base is to keep my stuff safe, not me. So I can have a nicely set up combination of workshop, storage, and trophy room, painted and decorated. Back in A16 I used to build ramps up from underground with a drawbridge sealing off the top so I could ride my mini-bike in and out. Super cool. It would be even cooler if I was doing it in the new jeep or bike (not so much on the bicycle ).

 

Right now, all my stuff is out in the open along the edge of a road next to my fort. It looks crap and non-immersive, but the Z's leave it alone. I'm going to look into this 50+ safety thing. If it turns out to be true, I'll be happy.

[Feycat]

But you have to realize it is very narrow-minded even to ask such a thing for the survival mode, because there are a lot of people who choose that mode for what its name describes.

 

But why? Why is that narrow-minded? How does it hurt the game to allow people the option to skip the hordes if they want to?

 

It's not my cup of tea, I pretty much live for the hordes. But it doesn't affect me one single percent if people want to skip them. Why do I care?

 

Also, I don't like the fact I can't make underground rooms without zombies digging down. In our last A16 game, my friends and I had an above-ground fight cage to mess with zombies, but we had a huge underground complex with whole "houses" and an underground farm. I hate the fact that the zombies would dig right down through that now unless we put it at bedrock - and forget farming.