Is A17 harder or is the programming cheap?

[Hatepark]

Simple, I feel like the programming is set up to cause cheap deaths, so the devs can say, see we told you it was harder. Here is what happened....

 

So, three deaths in, due to feral zombies at the top of a “normal” house, didn’t expect 3 of them behind one door (kinda cheap since it is day 3). Then on the way back to my backpack, 3 vultures seemingly appear out of nowhere and chase me down, (cheap tactic 2, not enough stam and health now to fight 3 at once), so that was death two. Now, I resplendent and on my way back into the same town to get my body, the game sends, I literally see the 4 dogs materialize before my eyes, walk around in a circle for a split second then beeline for me. I pillar up on a roof of a one car garage, and kill those 4 dogs. I get down and skin the nasty beast only to hear 4 more dogs magically spawn into the game and I panic and couldn’t get the frames out fast enough, so I died again.

 

I seriously feel as if the game level isn’t set right, they are throwing stuff at me that I cannot handle. 3 feral zombies at once with a bow and club... then spawning 2 dog packs back to back when my stam and health are now capped at 25%.

 

I don’t find this fun at all, starving constantly, no stam to get basic resources, and cheap tactics to constantly kill the player. Oh oh oh, did I mention the death buff, what a treat that is, might as well not worry about placing points, you will be capped at level 1 permanently. Even the best players are dying a lot.

 

Just my two cents.

[RestInPieces]

I agree about dogs and vultures - especially dogs. They appear early, are fast and they travel on packs but their animations make them particularly worse. They are quite overtuned compared to everything else. Always hated the dogs, they stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the content in early/mid-game.

[iejen]

I'm at day 5 now on my first play and haven't died or got closes to dieing once.

Maybe you should change your playstyle.

[Scyris]

I'm at day 5 now on my first play and haven't died or got closes to dieing once.

Maybe you should change your playstyle.

 

Prove it, take a screenshot of your stats screen that shows death and longest life. I'm on 90 min days so.. here's mine on a new game I started 2 hours ago or so:

 

Back on topic, I do feel the programming is cheap, I've had zombies from 40+ blocks away outside somehow hear me when I am on the 2nd/3rd floor of a poi, and then gps right to me. Most of my deaths in a17 is due to this. me and a friend got killed while digging a tunnel to get clay/stones, from a wandering horde, that was hanging by the trader which was about 100 meters away, One somehow heard us and came right in the only opening to the tunnel trapping and killing us inside. Was literally nothing we could do was one of those big biker dudes at night, the fact he was even able to hear us to find us was pretty BS, considering we were digging AWAY from the trader the horde was lounging around at. The weird thing is, at night I can sprint around outside and rarely aggro anything, it just seems that when I am in a POI they suddendly get super hearing and super sense, not to mention night vision as the zombies seem to be able to find me perfectly fine in complete pitch darkness.

[Jedo]

No dogs here; I've only died from my own stupidity. Sounds like you got RNG-♥♥♥♥ed.

[Vomgnar]

To me, it seems harder yet easier at the same time. There has always been a bit of a problem with "cheap" zombie spawns. Like clearing a building only to turn around and have one spawn on top of you. That factor is a little worse than A16, oh god, vultures/dogs. The easier part, combat seems to work more as intended. I could never use a club in A16. It could have been the game or my sucky reflexes, or a combo of the two, dunno. In A17, when you aim, you hit (well most of the time), so that factor is easier.

 

I really like the new feel of the game. Some things still need tweaking of course, but I like the direction it's going.

[Scyris]

No dogs here; I've only died from my own stupidity. Sounds like you got RNG-♥♥♥♥ed.

 

I had a clear out zombies quest from the trader and first 3 zombies were: a dog, a dog then a vulture, this is on the start of day 2. KIlled them and didn't die but damn its close. Also make sure to do quests from the trader, I just had one give me 5 first aid kits, something you can't make till lv 30-50 ish. One before gave me a shotgun.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

To me, it seems harder yet easier at the same time. There has always been a bit of a problem with "cheap" zombie spawns. Like clearing a building only to turn around and have one spawn on top of you. That factor is a little worse than A16, oh god, vultures/dogs. The easier part, combat seems to work more as intended. I could never use a club in A16. It could have been the game or my sucky reflexes, or a combo of the two, dunno. In A17, when you aim, you hit (well most of the time), so that factor is easier.

 

I really like the new feel of the game. Some things still need tweaking of course, but I like the direction it's going.

 

In a16 and below you had to actually move the crosshair above their heads to get a headshot, so thats was probally the problem, in a17 you hit right where the crosshair is when the attacks hit box passes thru it. I actually find melee in a17 easier, as I can pinpoint strike where i want. Now if only the perks worked right, I swear the +melee headshot damage perk doesn't work.

[Sirad]

I Think its simply darn Cheap

 

Instead of hand-filling the Pois with more zombies they now magically spawn on your head or inside you.

 

That game mechanic states that we, the customers, deserve nothing better than getting cheated at, instead of having a nice game where we can fight Some Zombies.

 

if i clear a House i expect not a horde magically appear in that room i just cleared 10 seconds ago.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Fataal said that zombie noise detection was reduced by 8-9 percent in the next build. Hopefully this will help with zombies several chunks away making a beeline for you when you enter a POI.

[Kubikus]

I died three times so far - I start new games when I die. The first time I died to dogs, the second times I died to dogs and the third time I died to dogs. When you have a club, a bow, low health, maybe half your stamina gone, and, of course, when you can't sprint backwards, and a bunch of dogs attacks you inside a building (which happened to me all three times): You die.

 

If the game is supposed to feel unfair, all is well. Otherwise, tone the dogs down. Myself, I'll reduce their damage values for now. To 5. They deal 18 damage, btw, the usual zombies deal 10.

[Scyris]

Fataal said that zombie noise detection was reduced by 8-9 percent in the next build. Hopefully this will help with zombies several chunks away making a beeline for you when you enter a POI.

 

Don't think 8-9% is going to be enough tbh. when i've had zombies home in on me from 100 meters away when i was on the 2nd floor of a poi or under ground.

[jdifran]

I think it's been stated repeatedly (I know Roland has said it) that the new POIs are intended to be HARD. The quests the trader gives you to clear out a POI are supposed to have bosses at the end. Roland said not to try them the first time you visit the trader. Madmole suggests just looting small garages and A16-style small houses and shops at first. Wait until you've leveled up and improved your gear before doing the dungeon-style POIs (the ones with flashlights to guide your path).

 

As for the dogs, I'm not sure. I know that wandering hordes can (and do) happen more than once per day. One of my early deaths was to a pack of wolves that spawned in the same day as a regular wandering horde. Caught me totally off guard.

 

The changes are definitely taking some getting used to. Those of us with thousands of hours in A16 will need to make adjustments to our play style. Content is definitely scaled now, which is relatively new. In A16 I would never hit the pawn shop early in the game because I knew there were bad things in the treasure room (well, sometimes I would bust through the ceiling and sneak up to the treasure room, but it felt like cheating). I think a lot of dungeon-style POIs are going to have to wait until mid-late game.

[KeiraR]

I cleared out a house, framed it up and went to work on settling in. A few minutes later there were zombies swarming around the house again. Took them out, went back inside and started banging on the gun safe on the first floor. A zombie breaks the frames in the doorway in a few hits and b-lines to me. I kill it, frame up the doorway and a few mins later, another one. After I killed it I left the frames out, no more zombies came in. It seems kind of borked but I'm not sure how yet. A lot of things look very nice, a lot of things are really stupid. Hey, next level tool, same damage, yay for wasting a skill point. The gunsafe was loaded with stuff btw. pistols, comp bow, hunting rifles, shotgun and ammo for all of it. In ONE safe. Take them down guys, it's worth it now. zombie spawning, pathing, agro and AI are a bit poopie pants imho.

P.S. I, too, died horribly a few times but at least one was my own fault.

[ubai]

I like the new behavior, not sure about spawning yet. It still feels buggy to me, but this is the experimental version, I suppose.

[iejen]

Prove it, take a screenshot of your stats screen that shows death and longest life. I'm on 90 min days so.. here's mine on a new game I started 2 hours ago or so: [ATTACH=CONFIG]25424[/ATTACH]

 

Will send one tonight. At the office right now. It's 15:30 in Netherlands.

[DaVegaNL]

Don't worry. TFP will cave in to the people who can't handle difficulties in a few days, and we will be back to a easy snore-fest like A16.4 was in no time

[Scyris]

I cleared out a house, framed it up and went to work on settling in. A few minutes later there were zombies swarming around the house again. Took them out, went back inside and started banging on the gun safe on the first floor. A zombie breaks the frames in the doorway in a few hits and b-lines to me. I kill it, frame up the doorway and a few mins later, another one. After I killed it I left the frames out, no more zombies came in. It seems kind of borked but I'm not sure how yet. A lot of things look very nice, a lot of things are really stupid. Hey, next level tool, same damage, yay for wasting a skill point. The gunsafe was loaded with stuff btw. pistols, comp bow, hunting rifles, shotgun and ammo for all of it. In ONE safe. Take them down guys, it's worth it now. zombie spawning, pathing, agro and AI are a bit poopie pants imho.

P.S. I, too, died horribly a few times but at least one was my own fault.

 

I've had the same thing happen, with zomibes just appearing and beelining it for me when they should logically have no way to hear me.

[Scyris]

Don't worry. TFP will cave in to the people who can't handle difficulties in a few days, and we will be back to a easy snore-fest like A16.4 was in no time

 

Its not so much the difficulty, its the fact they can someone how you in a house from 100+ meters away and bee line it right to you, like they are gpsing to you. ANother example: You shoot a zombie at night, somehow no matter how quiet the weapon is they lock on to where you fired the shot and beeline it to that spot. Yeah you can just move a bit so they don't see you, but they shouldn't be able to pinpoint where you fired with a wooden bow thats bascally completly silent. Try it at night, use the wooden bow shoot any zombie and watch them magically know exactly where you fired from. If i was using a rifle, or shotgun yeah I could understand, but the bow is pretty much silent.

[Khulkhuum]

Its not so much the difficulty, its the fact they can someone how you in a house from 100+ meters away and bee line it right to you, like they are gpsing to you. ANother example: You shoot a zombie at night, somehow no matter how quiet the weapon is they lock on to where you fired the shot and beeline it to that spot. Yeah you can just move a bit so they don't see you, but they shouldn't be able to pinpoint where you fired with a wooden bow thats bascally completly silent. Try it at night, use the wooden bow shoot any zombie and watch them magically know exactly where you fired from. If i was using a rifle, or shotgun yeah I could understand, but the bow is pretty much silent.

 

Not to discard your assumption, but if i were hit on my right side hard with an arrow (or bullet) with my hand/side being pushed hard with the impact, it would with high probability show the general direction from which it came from. That aside, i don't like how the zombies do gps towards you like that, as they should simply walk/run towards the general direction, but if he doesn't detect you in any way (at night or simply you hide) i should presume he walks past and searches around. And zombie detection should be visual at a short distance (bigger if it's day time and clear weather) and generating noise.

 

On a side note, i have only died when trying to play Nav and spawning in snow biome. Started fresh on random gen and luck was with me - despite a dog horde recently, a few wandering Z hordes, nightly visits when i was locking down my POI house for the first time, a bear spawning in the distance and a couple vultures flying after me. I presume the first 7 day horde will make me run for my luck...

[Hatepark]

My original post wasn’t about crying it is hard, it is annoying. The game stages aren’t set right, I feel like I am playing 7 days to starvation with little emphasis on building or crafting. Just zombie killing and feeding my face so I can barely get enough stam to keep up with resources for arrows.

[Kattla]

Even the best players are dying a lot.

 

 

Only once....

[humprey]

how can we defeat dogs if we cant even run back wards.

[adaemus]

I'm not finding the game too difficult. I like the changes so far. It's definitely more difficult but I'm playing very cautious like I'm a survivor in a world where everything wants to eat my face off. So far, Day 9 with zero deaths.

 

[JCrook1028]

I died three times so far - I start new games when I die. The first time I died to dogs, the second times I died to dogs and the third time I died to dogs. When you have a club, a bow, low health, maybe half your stamina gone, and, of course, when you can't sprint backwards, and a bunch of dogs attacks you inside a building (which happened to me all three times): You die.

 

If the game is supposed to feel unfair, all is well. Otherwise, tone the dogs down. Myself, I'll reduce their damage values for now. To 5. They deal 18 damage, btw, the usual zombies deal 10.

 

If you're getting attacked by dogs inside a building 3x in a row and dying maybe you need to pick your early loot choices better? Were they all the old western stores for eaxample? This is a new game. No longer should you just willy nilly head into any poi you want and expect to live. As Joel has stated many times already since the drop, stick to the smaller poi's at first. Build up strength and perks/skills.

 

I'm on D5 and haven't died yet. Played the first 2.5 days on adventurer then went up to nomad. 110ish zombie kills and lvl 16. Have a few guns to sell cause they're too weak to use early game. Have iron axe and pick both from loot. Got a chainsaw and sold it too from a zombie loot drop. I think I've only looted 5? poi's so far? Much more cars/trash piles outside stuff etc. KIlled 3 wolves and a few vultures, 2 wild and 2 that spawned up out of a new campsite type poi (got a TON of cloth out of the tents there, VERY handy). Shame the chem station there wasn't working but found a good chem station at a trader and a forge house with a working forge nearby. (Funny thing that same trader the forge was working too so decided to move close to it, nearest house the forge was working)

 

Play smart! Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/940585896189522092/F3EE4B43C2A7DB3A4F82DE32B486F149A2A1D36F/

[giltirn]

Don't worry. TFP will cave in to the people who can't handle difficulties in a few days, and we will be back to a easy snore-fest like A16.4 was in no time

 

Oh dear, guess you'll have to learn xml-fu like everyone else?