How can the game still be this unbalanced? It's been 10 years.

[meganoth]

17 minutes ago, Scyris said:

Yeah but the current stat system and learn by reading system basically forces you into certain stats if you wanna be able to make things. I'd care less if they'd decouple weapons from stats and make weapon/tools its own 6th stat that has headshot/dismember chance and all weapons and tools in it, quite a few of the perks are also in stats that make little sense for it to be there in the first place. If you ask me all melee weapons and tools should be in str, and all ranged weapons should be in perception. While the other perks in those lines get spread out to other stats.

 

TFP did try that once in A17 and it was not well received.

 

If you look at strength like D&D strength you will always fail to understand the current system. The attributes may be called attributes, but they are classes. Each class needs weapons with corresponding perks and utility perks, otherwise it wouldn't be a complete useable class

 

 

[Scyris]

50 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

TFP did try that once in A17 and it was not well received.

 

If you look at strength like D&D strength you will always fail to understand the current system. The attributes may be called attributes, but they are classes. Each class needs weapons with corresponding perks and utility perks, otherwise it wouldn't be a complete useable class

 

 

 

Best option is most likely to make weapons/tools learn by doing, while having the other perks be stat based. This is how darkness falls does it. Weapons and tools are action skill based, action skill ups damage, dismember and headshot damage, and lets you up the levels of say pummel pete if you use clubs 1,10,20,40,60 for lvs 1-5. It then has some general perks like crafting quality that you can use skill points on or buy the levels from a trader npc after doing enough quests for her. Then it has classes, and each class has their own set of skills. Like hunter has one that allows you to detect zombies around you and flags them but also ups headshot damage with rifles. Farmer, has farming perks and a perk line that buffs shotguns that increase effective range and has other buffs. You unlock classes by crafting a class book that you get the materials from by scrapping other books, and then do a short quest line which gets you some clothing, food, drinks, and a weapon or tool and ammo related to what the class uses. Scientist has perks like physician, Yeah! Science and other things. There is also a class mastery with for most classes unlocks unique craft recipes unique to that class.

 

Its a far better system than what vanilla current has, and its an actual class system that has weapons detached from them as the basic weapon perks are based on action skill in that weapon type, since they are learn by doing skills, you choose which you wanna level.

 

The skill system is basically based off a16.4 which was by far the best skill system 7dtd has ever had. Only reason people say otherwise is because they never played a16.4 they only played whats available now so they have no idea there used to be a better system in the game. The crafting stuff being linked to action skill was a a15 thing, and I hated that part as well, but that was fixed in a16, and made its own skill line gated by char level. It'd not be too hard to have a learn by doing system for weapons and tools, and also keep magazines for determining craft quality.

Edited July 24 by Scyris (see edit history)

[Stranded_Napkin]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:16 AM, Slingblade2040 said:

So I'm on my second play through using sledge hammer and took my what I learned from the 1st play through which helped me realize just how much more unbalanced the game has become. I thought ok the game seems more balanced with trader rewards but now during this 2nd play through the reality has hit me. The game is even more unbalanced than before.

 

Day 8 and I have quality 6 steel sledgehammer, armor magazine is 1 magazine from 100 which means I can also craft quality 6 armor, thanks to traders  selling work stations i have everything besides the Chem station which is basically useless thanks to how much ammo folks can get from infestation quests.

 

How is it the game and traders are still this unbalanced after 10 years? This is supposed to be the gold release or whatever they want to call it and the game still seems to be in alpha with many broken or unbalanced features.

 

This is from playing the game normally as any new player would, meaning doing quests from traders, looting and purchasing from traders which is literally outlined as to how to play and guided by the starter quest and from any new player playing any RPG or any other game. 

 

Since I know some folks are going to jump in with the set limits on yourself nonsense that is ridiculous. How the hell is it my job to set a limit when I'm playing a game how any new player would?

 

Setting limits would mean don't use nerd outfit, don't use trader, don't do more than 2 or 3 quests, don't loot PoIs if you did alot of quests, don't mine so many resources, don't do infestations if you have alot of ammo. 

 

What the is the point of playing the game then if at mostly default settings the game is that unbalanced that it would require players to set up those ridiculous limits on themselves.

Much of what I've seen has been due to the RPG elements. You can absolutely cheese things now. If you spec specifically for things, you can speed run the magazines. Add the chance a magazine counts as two with the Nerd outfit, and you can speed it up even further. That's the thing though, there's always a way to cheese things with RPG elements.

 

Typically though, things do not move that quickly. I have played multiple playthroughs since 1.0 has hit experimental, and your case seems to be the exception. That is an insane pace. 

[Riamus]

If the game was LBD, I probably wouldn't be playing it.  I don't need that kind of grind in a game intended to be replayed repeatedly.

[warmer]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:16 AM, Slingblade2040 said:

How is it the game and traders are still this unbalanced after 10 years? This is supposed to be the gold release or whatever they want to call it and the game still seems to be in alpha with many broken or unbalanced features.

 

This is from playing the game normally as any new player would, meaning doing quests from traders, looting and purchasing from traders which is literally outlined as to how to play and guided by the starter quest and from any new player playing any RPG or any other game. 

 

Your perspective is NOT that of a new player. This is what so many people fail to understand when they talk about balance. If you have been playing this game for 10 years, you have been mentally min maxing on auto pilot for just about as long. No new player will play like this. You are a veteran and know all the tricks to level quickly and obtain loot.

 

Your "personal" experience is not the "typical" experience. In order to fully understand balance, you would need to approach this with virgin eyes, which is impossible in your current state.

 

Turn on max difficulty, feral sense, and always have them on sprint with max bloodmoon and get back to me this is too easy.

Edited July 24 by warmer (see edit history)

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Scyris said:

The skill system is basically based off a16.4 which was by far the best skill system 7dtd has ever had. Only reason people say otherwise is because they never played a16.4 they only played whats available now so they have no idea there used to be a better system in the game.

 

The only reason? Wrong. IMHO the current skill system is better than A16.4. And I say otherwise even though I played a16.4

 

Edited July 24 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Scyris]

30 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

The only reason? Wrong. IMHO the current skill system is better than A16.4. And I say otherwise even though I played a16.4

 

 

How is it better? I really wanna know how? with all the stat gates now? before there was a char lv gate and thats it really for craft quality, and weapons were not locked to stats so you could use what you wanted, get good at it and get the perks. I mean the stats don't even do anything unique anymore they are all the same generic stat, all headshot bonus and dismember chance and thats it. I just cannot see anything about the stat system that makes it better.

[Slingblade2040]

2 hours ago, warmer said:

Your perspective is NOT that of a new player. This is what so many people fail to understand when they talk about balance. If you have been playing this game for 10 years, you have been mentally min maxing on auto pilot for just about as long. No new player will play like this. You are a veteran and know all the tricks to level quickly and obtain loot.

 

Your "personal" experience is not the "typical" experience. In order to fully understand balance, you would need to approach this with virgin eyes, which is impossible in your current state.

 

Turn on max difficulty, feral sense, and always have them on sprint with max bloodmoon and get back to me this is too easy.

Yes that is too easy. The fact you even suggested to turn everything to max shows how ridiculous you are being.

 

People like you act as if new players are brain dead. That someone playing a game hasn't gone for a damage build or doesn't look for the thing to do best damage. These arent the 90s where information for games wasnt easily available. We have folks watching gamers on twitch, youtube or looking up some stuff on YouTube like builds or guides for almost any game.

 

Explain to me how a new player wouldn't do quests, buy stuff from the trader and put points into damage perks?  What tricks are you talking about if that is literally how any player would play. 

 

Every time folks like you and others talk about new players it's with such a condescending tone that these folks are absolutely terrible at games and have no clue as to what they are doing. Maybe you might be bad at games and have no clue what to do even in a new game but that isn't the case for most people. You are basically saying to a new player oh don't go full damage even though that's how you like to play, also ignore quests, don't loot a lot. What kind of nonsense is that?

 

That is something you and many others fail to understand that this game has major balance issues from the traders, to the skill system, to the crafting progression to even the food system. It's silly that we are on the verge of the stable release and the game is still in this shape after so many years.

[meganoth]

You really want to warm up that age old discussion? For me a perk system means more choice for me without doing stuff repeatedly that I don't really want to do. I can use any weapon I want, just like in A16, and can perk into any weapon I want, I may have to pay more perk points for a weapon in an attribute I haven't perked into, but so what? In an LBD system I would have to use the secondary weapon as often as the primary one, just to be good at it. Now I just choose that it will be as good. For example as an INT player I may decide that a shotgun might be a good secondary oh-@%$#-weapon and a good horde night weapon for me, while mostly using stun baton and turrets in daily POI clearance. In A16 I would still have to use the shotgun almost half the time going through POIs to get better at it, even though I only wanted it for oh-@%$# situations and horde night. Now I can just collect some perk points and my shotgun is ready for the few times I want to use it.

 

Another example: I want to do a big building project and need to dig a lot of stones for that. As I want to minimize the already huge task I want to start digging for real only when I am already good at it. In A16 I don't have that choice though. Now I have the flexibility to do quests for the first half of the game and put the perk strategically into miner69er. When I start digging I have the good tools and I am good at mining.

 

A16 always played the same as you started with pistol and mostly went up the ladder to automatic weapon. Now I can choose between weapons that are equally viable as each class (aka attribute) has its own weapon. And next playthrough I can take a different one, right from the start. Or even 2 or 3, even if it takes longer.

 

LBD is boring because there almost never is a time where you really have to choose. Even if A16 had equally viable weapons you would have to choose a weapon at start of the game and almost exclusively use it. Because using any other secondary weapon makes you fall behind on your first weapon. So normally you make most choices exactly once at the start of the game and then just play that till the end. What a boring progression on rails.

 

Edited July 24 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

I saw a zombie hugging a cactus recently, I just assumed he was playing A16

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Scyris said:

 

How is it better? I really wanna know how? with all the stat gates now? before there was a char lv gate and thats it really for craft quality, and weapons were not locked to stats so you could use what you wanted, get good at it and get the perks. I mean the stats don't even do anything unique anymore they are all the same generic stat, all headshot bonus and dismember chance and thats it. I just cannot see anything about the stat system that makes it better.

Heh.  Just because you like LBD doesn't mean everyone does.  I have hated LBD since Morrowind.  So how is it better?  It isn't LBD.  😁

 

You need to remember that people have different interests and that not everyone will like the same system, regardless whether they think it is actually a better system or just that they like it better 

[Vaeliorin]

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

You really want to warm up that age old discussion? For me a perk system means more choice for me without doing stuff repeatedly that I don't really want to do. I can use any weapon I want, just like in A16, and can perk into any weapon I want, I may have to pay more perk points for a weapon in an attribute I haven't perked into, but so what? In an LBD system I would have to use the secondary weapon as often as the primary one, just to be good at it. Now I just choose that it will be as good. For example as an INT player I may decide that a shotgun might be a good secondary oh-@%$#-weapon and a good horde night weapon for me, while mostly using stun baton and turrets in daily POI clearance. In A16 I would still have to use the shotgun almost half the time going through POIs to get better at it, even though I only wanted it for oh-@%$# situations and horde night. Now I can just collect some perk points and my shotgun is ready for the few times I want to use it.

 

Another example: I want to do a big building project and need to dig a lot of stones for that. As I want to minimize the already huge task I want to start digging for real only when I am already good at it. In A16 I don't have that choice though. Now I have the flexibility to do quests for the first half of the game and put the perk strategically into miner69er. When I start digging I have the good tools and I am good at mining.

 

A16 always played the same as you started with pistol and mostly went up the ladder to automatic weapon. Now I can choose between weapons that are equally viable as each class (aka attribute) has its own weapon. And next playthrough I can take a different one, right from the start. Or even 2 or 3, even if it takes longer.

 

LBD is boring because there almost never is a time where you really have to choose. Even if A16 had equally viable weapons you would have to choose a weapon at start of the game and almost exclusively use it. Because using any other secondary weapon makes you fall behind on your first weapon. So normally you make most choices exactly once at the start of the game and then just play that till the end. What a boring progression on rails.

 

 

I never played this way in A16.  I mainly used melee/bows while exploring, and pretty much only used guns on horde night.  Yes, my gun skills weren't amazing, but they were more than good enough.

 

34 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Heh.  Just because you like LBD doesn't mean everyone does.  I have hated LBD since Morrowind.  So how is it better?  It isn't LBD.  😁

 

You need to remember that people have different interests and that not everyone will like the same system, regardless whether they think it is actually a better system or just that they like it better 

 

Honestly, I hate LBD 99% of the time as well.  But I thought it was better in 7D2D (and Wizardry 6/7/8).

[warmer]

1 hour ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Explain to me how a new player wouldn't do quests, buy stuff from the trader and put points into damage perks?  What tricks are you talking about if that is literally how any player would play. 

 

Every time folks like you and others talk about new players it's with such a condescending tone that these folks are absolutely terrible at games and have no clue as to what they are doing. 

I have introduced 4 friends to this game and with all of them I had to teach them things about time management and choices because most new player don't understand how incredibly important time management is in this game or you get wrecked. Stamina food/H2O management is also a skill that comes with time. These things have nothing to do with combat minus stamina. These are things you learn over many hours of game play and doing it wrong and paying the price.

 

My example of maxing all settings is a reaction to how a whiny manifesto to TFP that they haven't made the game perfect for you yet makes me feel. I know you have a @%$#load of hours into the game. So what is the problem? It's not exactly like you want yet.

 

So mod it. Have agency. Quit your whining. 

Edited July 25 by warmer (see edit history)

[Slingblade2040]

4 hours ago, warmer said:

I have introduced 4 friends to this game and with all of them I had to teach them things about time management and choices because most new player don't understand how incredibly important time management is in this game or you get wrecked. Stamina food/H2O management is also a skill that comes with time. These things have nothing to do with combat minus stamina. These are things you learn over many hours of game play and doing it wrong and paying the price.

 

My example of maxing all settings is a reaction to how a whiny manifesto to TFP that they haven't made the game perfect for you yet makes me feel. I know you have a @%$#load of hours into the game. So what is the problem? It's not exactly like you want yet.

 

So mod it. Have agency. Quit your whining. 

Max settings and the nonsense you said has nothing to do with balance.  Time management? Skill management for stamina,h20 and food? Dude you gotta be trolling lol. None of those things require any skill in this game or if they do the bar is so low any new player can easily grasp that night zombies go faster, if water or food meter low then eat or drink. 

 

You are acting like this is POE levels of complexity when this is barely above vanilla minecraft. 

 

If your friends had to learn from you then God help them because it's obvious they got bad advice. 

 

This game is literally do trader quest, get end loot, get reward from trader, put point into attributes, put point into damage perk, craft weapon, buy items from trader and repeat till bored.

 

This is about game balance and how even new players can easily get OP and break game balance just by sticking with their class/attributes and playing the game normally by doing trader quests, looting and collecting rewards.

[PoloPoPo]

Lvl 6 steel sledgehammer, 99/100 armor magazines, forge, workbench and cement mixer crafted / bought from trader (where you got all the money from?) and plenty of ammo all on day 8?

 

To me this doesn't sound like default settings at all and if so it is not a playstyle lots of players would have. Especially not newer players.

 

Moreover, for new players nothing is easy in 7D2D. Wild animal? Dead. Beat a cop or fighter with melee weapon? Dead. Constant food / drink problems lead to stamina problems lead to next death. Regular POI with hidden sleepers more than 2 at once? Dead. Land mine? Dead. It is a constant struggle of play, die, learn, respawn and repeat until you have a good amount of hours played into the game. And even then you understand near to nothing about crafting, base building, skill tree, clothing and so on.

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Max settings and the nonsense you said has nothing to do with balance.  Time management? Skill management for stamina,h20 and food? Dude you gotta be trolling lol. None of those things require any skill in this game or if they do the bar is so low any new player can easily grasp that night zombies go faster, if water or food meter low then eat or drink. 

 

You are acting like this is POE levels of complexity when this is barely above vanilla minecraft. 

 

If your friends had to learn from you then God help them because it's obvious they got bad advice. 

 

This game is literally do trader quest, get end loot, get reward from trader, put point into attributes, put point into damage perk, craft weapon, buy items from trader and repeat till bored.

 

This is about game balance and how even new players can easily get OP and break game balance just by sticking with their class/attributes and playing the game normally by doing trader quests, looting and collecting rewards.

 

You are so out of touch with the typical novice player you could as well live on another planet. I am a veteran player and I would not be able to get the stuff you have at day 8, probably not even if I played min-max to the best of my knowledge. Or read the post of this player with 7k hours: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/36651-feedback-difficulty-at-lowest-settings-not-that-low/?do=findComment&comment=562487 . Just two examples of what we would call experienced players. Now assume players that don't know anything about INT being the fast-lane, nothing about perking into other stuff may be a mistake, nothing about running in armor gets you killed or out of food, no idea where to get food from easily, nothing about how to kill a dog before it kills you, ...

 

 

Cureently you absolutely need to play INT and invest into DA to be able to get end-game gear. If not, the trader rewards are very well balanced to your game stage. My group currently has one INT player, the rest perk into other attributes.  Except for the INT player we have not seen a single item in the rewards that was better than tier1 and we are on day 18. Mostly I have seen no weapons at all or stone age weapons (EDIT to clarify: ... in the trader rewards!). The trader sometimes has better stuff but we can't afford to buy them. The only one with access to better gear and enough money is our INT player who actually could buy end-game stuff from the trader.

 

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Slingblade2040]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

You are so out of touch with the typical novice player you could as well live on another planet. I am a veteran player and I would not be able to get the stuff you have at day 8, probably not even if I played min-max to the best of my knowledge. Or read the post of this player with 7k hours: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/36651-feedback-difficulty-at-lowest-settings-not-that-low/?do=findComment&comment=562487 . Just two examples of what we would call experienced players. Now assume players that don't know anything about INT being the fast-lane, nothing about perking into other stuff may be a mistake, nothing about running in armor gets you killed or out of food, no idea where to get food from easily, nothing about how to kill a dog before it kills you, ...

 

 

Cureently you absolutely need to play INT and invest into DA to be able to get end-game gear. If not, the trader rewards are very well balanced to your game stage. My group currently has one INT player, the rest perk into other attributes.  Except for the INT player we have not seen a single item in the rewards that was better than tier1 and we are on day 18. Mostly I have seen no weapons at all or stone age weapons. The trader sometimes has better stuff but we can't afford to buy them. The only one with access to better gear and enough money is our INT player who actually could buy end-game stuff from the trader.

 

 

Dude this is with no points put into intelligence. This is purely going as a damage dealer.  Points into strength and points into whatever the sledge hammer damage perk is. This is doing quests and looting. How heck would a new player not play that way? 

 

What you are saying is completely ridiculous to be at your stage with stone weapons. There is no way you can be at Day 18 with stone weapons unless you completely ignored the damage perks and aren't looting or questing. 

 

How the hell is a new player not going to pick damage perks or invest into attributes? Much less do quests or purchase things from the trader.

 

All you folks keep talking about how new players don't do that so feel free to explain wtf a new player does?

 

Not one person has explained how the hell a new player would play. Are you folks telling me new players don't do quests? Don't loot? Don't purchase items from the trader? I swear some of you make this game out to be this complex masterpiece when it's barely more complex than vanilla minecraft with Redstone taken out.

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

What you are saying is completely ridiculous to be at your stage with stone weapons. There is no way you can be at Day 18 with stone weapons unless you completely ignored the damage perks and aren't looting or questing. 

 

You misunderstood. I was talking about the **trader rewards** having mostly stone age weapons if weapons get offered at all. We already have q6 tier1 or early tier2 weapons because we crafted them and 1 or 2 tier3 weapons because they were offered to our INT player.

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Slingblade2040]

3 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

Lvl 6 steel sledgehammer, 99/100 armor magazines, forge, workbench and cement mixer crafted / bought from trader (where you got all the money from?) and plenty of ammo all on day 8?

 

To me this doesn't sound like default settings at all and if so it is not a playstyle lots of players would have. Especially not newer players.

 

Moreover, for new players nothing is easy in 7D2D. Wild animal? Dead. Beat a cop or fighter with melee weapon? Dead. Constant food / drink problems lead to stamina problems lead to next death. Regular POI with hidden sleepers more than 2 at once? Dead. Land mine? Dead. It is a constant struggle of play, die, learn, respawn and repeat until you have a good amount of hours played into the game. And even then you understand near to nothing about crafting, base building, skill tree, clothing and so on.

Selling brass and polymer which are very abundant and easy to get.

 

Forge ahead you only need 10 to craft workbench and forge. You could easily get anywhere from 1-4 at the trader and if they are selling some maybe another 1 or 2. Crafting magazine bundle also gives them.

 

If you want to take away the easy ammo from infested quests that's fine I can give that up since folks here think this games combat is dark souls level of difficult.

 

Default settings would make it much much easier.

 

I don't know why so many people here think this game is so difficult. Maybe if this was the very first video game someone ever played I would agree but the chances of that are beyond slim.

 

Most folks have played games before this one and if they are interested in survival games then many are like this hell even the combat is close to that of mineceaft. 

 

It isn't that difficult to sell items, loot, do quests, purchase items and pick perks to do more damage. That is the literal basics of almost any RPG, Bethesda game or survival game.

 

The fact so many here keep going to oh the difficulty when this is about balance and how bad it is shows most of you don't have a good argument against it so you try to equate it with difficulty 

[Slingblade2040]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

You misunderstood. I was talking about the **trader rewards** having mostly stone age weapons if weapons get offered at all. We already have q6 tier1 or early tier2 weapons because we crafted them and 1 or 2 tier3 weapons because they were offered to our INT player.

 

And the stuff i got aside from the cement mixer and crucible are crafted because going full into an attribute makes armor magazines drop like crazy and going into a damage perk to max makes those magazines for that weapon drop at a ridiculous rate especially from crafting magazine bundle.  Along with those parts appearing in loot alot. That whole going more into perks to get magazine drops was new to me till someone pointed it out. Which makes it even more ridiculous to players who read and pay more attention than I do since I was only reading the attributes and perks.

 

I can give the cement mixer not being a trader loot as pure rng luck but so far the crucible has been there on every day 4 restock as it's been also seen in youtubers who went to traders in day 4.

 

This playstyle that I did is as close to new player as anyone can get. Do quests, go for damage since most folks usually want to do the most damage possible, loot, sell items, buy stuff from traders to improve skills or use money to buy food and drinks from vending machines.

 

I can easily so yeah some new players might avoid infested so take away the easy ammo and take away the cement mixer since that's luck RNG but aside from that it is ridiculous for folks to assume a new player wouldn't do any of the other stuff. 

 

Hell that's how I play almost any game. Project zomboid is far more complex than this game and as a new player to that I didn't find it difficult to grasp how the game works. The combat was the only thing that took some time to get ahold of but even then it wasn't some complex thing.

[meganoth]

 

1 minute ago, Slingblade2040 said:

And the stuff i got aside from the cement mixer and crucible are crafted because going full into an attribute makes armor magazines drop like crazy and going into a damage perk to max makes those magazines for that weapon drop at a ridiculous rate especially from crafting magazine bundle.  Along with those parts appearing in loot alot. That whole going more into perks to get magazine drops was new to me till someone pointed it out. Which makes it even more ridiculous to players who read and pay more attention than I do since I was only reading the attributes and perks.

 

Which is exaclty what a new player doesn't know. Which makes it very random. He might just invest into his weapon and no other magazine-perk, but it is also very likely that he would take miner69er and cooking if he only looks at strength. Even worse he might look around and think it sensible to also invest into automatic weapons because he saw an M60 and that sounded powerful. Because he might not know that attributes in this game are not attributes like in many RPGs but really classes and he will not know that tidbit about the magazines, just like you.

 

I am fully on your side about the totally balance-wrecking magazine-bonuses of higher perk-levels. And there is a maybe even substantial chance for a new player to just stumble onto this "progression highway" and have end-game gear early. But my guess is that the majority of new players will not and they will have anything from a similar progression like my group has to even worse as they get killed too often by dogs and radiated guys after falling down a trap floor.

 

Lets do the math (tldr: is below): To craft a tier3q6 weapon at day 8 you would need to find 75 magazines of that type, right? That is 10 per day. Even with maxing it your chance to find such a magazine in any loot container is 20% at game start if you got perk level 2 immediately. That goes up to 33% when you are level 5 in that perk, but for that you need to be at least level 11. Lets assume you go up 3 levels per day then you are at perk level 5 sledgehammer on day 4. Your average loot chance is still nearly 33% on average. It means you need to find 30 magazines in loot containers and as reward ON EACH single day.

Trader inventory for example doesn't help as it does not take your perk level into account, you will be lucky to find 2 sledgehammer magazines total in the 8 days at the 2 traders a novice player is likely to find in the first 8 days. The (I grant you) OP magazine bundles are absolutely essential to this strategy as they give you 6 magazines. You seem to get a magazine bundle as quest reward choice in about 62% so on average you only get 4 magazines per quest as quest reward, but you also find magazines in the POI, and that would fill the hole of those 2 missing general magazines (i.e. without counting cooking magazines from the kitchen etc.).

 

tldr; So my estimate is you need to do 5 quests per day for that.

 

That is perfectly doable for a really good player but not for joe average or a new player. Joe Average and many new players will get infected by missing the first hit on a vulture a few times in those first days, will get severly damaged, break their bones or even get killed by a dog, probably multiple times. A new player will also need to find out so many stuff (for example how to make clean water, what perks are there...) that a lot of time at least in the first two days will be spend looking for information in the recipes, ..., if will be lucky if he does 2 quests on his first 2 days.

 

I am not saying the game is super difficult. But there is much to know, and even if you know enough you have to be careful. In my SP game I played on difficulty 3 of 5 and I got only 1 or 2 quests done on day 1. I was hit multiple times, a dog got me down to 20% health and I got a broken leg because I jumped down from too high which slowed me down greatly.

 

So let me ask you if my estimate is about right? How many quests do you do per day in those first 8 days? (And at what difficulty setting by the way?)

 

 

[PoloPoPo]

@Slingblade2040 How many hours have you played 7D2D already?

[theFlu]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

(And at what difficulty setting by the way?)

He described some of that on the first page

 

 

[meganoth]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:05 PM, theFlu said:

He described some of that on the first page

 

 

 

Me too lazy was 😁

 

Ah, so really it is vanilla day 12 in his game. Makes doing 5 quests in a day much more feasable

 

Edited July 27 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Kosmic Kerman]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Me too lazy was 😁

 

Ah, so really it is vanilla day 12 in his game. Makes doing 5 quests in a day much more feasable

 

What isn't mentioned there but is discussed in another post is that he focuses on maxing his melee perk ASAP.  And if  you beeline your melee perk to the exclusion of most other perks you drastically increase the rate you get skill books and weapon parts. If the game were balanced to his playstyle it would be miserably slow for anyone that does not prioritize maxing the melee perk.  In my experience, when you spread your points weapon crafting skill progression is much, much slower than he describes.