Long term gameplay development

[ungkor]

Does everything think that the loot by learning system (collecting hundreds of books) is going to stay in place?   As well is the idea of having to collect parts for guns rather than just looting a gun?  

 

Or is there a chance that the game might move back to something more similar to alpha 17.4?

 

They change things so drastically alpha to alpha, that I'm unsure what may happen next.   I'm think I'm done with the game unless it moves back towards a crafting/building centered game vs a looting/raiding game.  Not that anyone cares what I think:), I'm just curious what everyone's best guess is about the future of 7d2d. 

[theFlu]

I don't think the new crafting magazine system is going away; even if I do hope it would. It was sorta fun for the first playthru, but I haven't managed to start a second "serious" one, due to having to go thru the drudgery of that system - and a couple other design decisions, sure, but I think this might be the main one.

 

TFP likely see it as a solution to the "too random" progression / it gives them the ability to control the progression speed, and prolly don't want to redesign it again for gold. I get that, but the implementation is basically like 7dtd lock picking, nothing to do while you watch a number slowly tick up.

 

Welcome to the mailman simulator, I guess

[SylenThunder]

5 hours ago, ungkor said:

They change things so drastically alpha to alpha

I mean, that is basically what Alpha game development is. They are still designing the core features and mechanics of the game. It is the time period in development where you try something, like it or not, and then try something else if you don't like it or get a different idea about how you want the game to be.

 

One of the main reasons for changes to loot balance, locking things behind gates with the magazine system, and jar removal, is to extend the gameplay of the game. It's to make it take a bit longer for you to become heinously overpowered. I mean look at Alpha 16. You could be fully equipped so no horde was a challenge in just a couple of game weeks. People were complaining that the game was too easy, that it got boring too fast. So the developers decided to stretch out the initial gameplay to a span of 30 hours. Now they have decided to make that closer to 50 hours.

 

And unlike many other studios, TFP has made it so that most of the previous Steam releases are still available to you. So if you liked a16 the best, you can keep on playing it.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@SylenThunder If that is the reason, they failed it. Big time. With the new price of fergetting elixir your can swap around your points really often and get the magazines you need superfast. It also promotes specialized characters. People who like to spread out their points will simply fall back in progression.

 

Everything you can´t cover with that method can be bought or achieved as a reward at the super OP traders.

 

Also it´s simply not fun having to search every mailbox and every bookshelf. You can be sure that even people that never double dipped quests will now do that regulary with crack a book and POI´s with a decent amount of book shelfs.

 

The magazines should spawn in every loot container with the same chance imo or get replaced by a system that is not as easily abused as this one. And don´t even start with "but people aren´t forced to abuse" that´s like telling a kid that sugar is bad and then proceed to show them the drawer with all the sweets.

 

Is that what TFP wants? A min/max simulation? With the skill point system instead of a well made LBD and the magazine system they sure did achieve that. Game has never been so easy to min/max.

Edited November 17, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Riamus]

I'm not sure about anyone else, but for me, I don't really enjoy the first stages of the game all that much.  It isn't a challenge to be using poor equipment, so there isn't any reason to care about it.  I enjoy the game once I have decent stuff and can start doing serious building and trying unusual or fun things.  You can't do that in the early game.  The slow down in game progression actually makes me want to play less rather than more.  Oh well.

[Ramethzer0]

I'm of the opposite mind to @Riamus about this.  I actually enjoy the first several hours of the game the most because fresh starts with nothing are literally how I gauge my progress.   I dropped in with nothing and had to use clever and unorthodox measures to defeat enemies when I chose to engage them.  Resources are at a premium and making that one item that is going to influence the move forward.  I get proud of these little things.  I smile when I loot my first wrench because its the gateway to so many other things.  I know its just a matter of time, but I've learned to treasure the little things.

 

Concerning the OP's post:  I think the word Drastic means similar but not always the same thing to everyone.  I consider the change from A16 to A17 to be drastic.  A17 to A18 was less so.   19 and 20 felt more like the a deeper fine tuning to the game concept than drastic change.  I think TFP have really tried to adopt solutions that kept things similar but presenting differently.   We don't have to loot explicit parts so its all just 'parts' now.  Assembling a gun still feels good, its just the packaging of that solution looks different.   It might seem drastic to some but i just see it as a different representation of the same thing.   Maybe I'm just weird like that, but that's how its always felt.

 

[Laz Man]

For me, there is alot of things to enjoy throughout the entire game.  Not in any particular order below.

 

1) The early game survival struggle. (Water/food/shelter)

2) Quest / POI Progression

3) Vehicle Progression

4) Horde Night / Base defense Progression (weapons, ammo, traps, etc.)

5) Crafting Progression

 

Not saying that any of these are in their final form but do enjoy them in their current form.  For example, I would love to see crafting gain more benefits, especially once game / lootstage gets higher.

 

 

 

 

 

[ungkor]

"I mean, that is basically what Alpha game development is."   For ten+ years?  

" So if you liked a16 the best, you can keep on playing it. " - Alpha 17.4 has been crashing continually for me, so without bug fixes to back releases, that really isn't feasible long term.  

 

Anyway, I'll check back on the status of the game if it moves to Beta.  Which I don't think will ever happen, but we will see.  Take care everyone

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

3 hours ago, ungkor said:

"I mean, that is basically what Alpha game development is."   For ten+ years?  

" So if you liked a16 the best, you can keep on playing it. " - Alpha 17.4 has been crashing continually for me, so without bug fixes to back releases, that really isn't feasible long term.  

 

Anyway, I'll check back on the status of the game if it moves to Beta.  Which I don't think will ever happen, but we will see.  Take care everyone

 

 

You people are funny. There is 2 games TFP is working on besides 7 days to die. One is 7 days Bloodmoons, and yes i do realize they outsourced it but it is still their game and there is a small team of TFP actually working on it, and one fully made by TFP where we have no idea what it is yet, other than it´s made with UE5. And you think they will never finish this one? Do you really think they are stupid?

Edited November 18, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, ungkor said:

 

" So if you liked a16 the best, you can keep on playing it. " - Alpha 17.4 has been crashing continually for me, so without bug fixes to back releases, that really isn't feasible long term. 

 

 

Did you clear all configuration in the tools-tab after switching back? There seems to be lots of incompatibility between alpha-versions. Did you make sure to delete all mods, if you were using any?

 

[FA_Q2]

I assume it is here to stay, TFP rarely goes back on a major redesign like this as far as I know.  

 

I don't think it was a good idea at all and find gameplay much more bland now.  

[Roland]

I think it is great. It could use some options or sliders to let the player easily manually adjust quest rewards, perk boost to magazines, water availability in loot, etc.

 

In my current playthrough, I'm playing 50% loot and it has been great for early game water survival. However it does make crafting progression slower than I'd like. Rather than a global loot adjustment like we have now I'd like to see some more specialized sliders. Water, magazines, and ammo, for example could be tweaked separately for some significant changes to gameplay without affecting all loot. 

[FinkPloyd]

13 hours ago, Roland said:

I think it is great. It could use some options or sliders to let the player easily manually adjust quest rewards, perk boost to magazines, water availability in loot, etc.

 

I agree, more optons to tweek the loot would be helpful.

 

I use a mod that allows me to scrap books / mags I dont need and use the resulting material to craft mags I want.

It helps even out the RNG.

 

On 11/18/2023 at 11:54 AM, Laz Man said:

 I would love to see crafting gain more benefits, especially once game / lootstage gets higher.

 

 

Yes please.

 

Like a tailor made suit or custom made sporting equipment, something crafted specifically for the user should be more effective /  better.

[FA_Q2]

38 minutes ago, FinkPloyd said:

 

I agree, more optons to tweek the loot would be helpful.

 

I use a mod that allows me to scrap books / mags I dont need and use the resulting material to craft mags I want.

It helps even out the RNG.

 

 

Yes please.

 

Like a tailor made suit or custom made sporting equipment, something crafted specifically for the user should be more effective /  better.

The books have put crafting at a bit of a disadvantage IMHO.  By the time I can craft it, more than likely I have already found it.  Several tbh.  Perking into schematics gave me access to things when I wanted to access them and spend the points.  Now, the game determines when I have access to them and that is what makes the gameplay MUCH more bland IMHO.  

 

The only way around that is really to go the min/max rout and manipulate the system.  Oh the irony at min/max having the opposite problem this entire time and now that style increases the variety.  Unfortunately I feel that rout boxes you in when it comes to other things making that play not very fun either.  

 

This change and the farming changes really are the only ones I do not like.  Still consider the game, overall, to be a damn good one though.

 

[Old Crow]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:54 PM, Laz Man said:

  For example, I would love to see crafting gain more benefits, especially once game / lootstage gets higher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crafting definitely needs some love. For the most part (not entirely, mind you), by the time you can craft anything worthwhile, you've likely found a better version, or gotten one as a quest reward.

[Vaeliorin]

For things you've specced into, I disagree.  I usually am making top tier steel tools (well, usually just a pickaxe because I don't have parts) before I'm even getting mid-tier iron tools.  But things that are off spec are basically never going to be worth crafting.  If I'm not specced into rifles, I'm probably going to find a q6 sniper rifle before I can even craft a lever action. for example.

[FinkPloyd]

22 hours ago, FA_Q2 said:

The books have put crafting at a bit of a disadvantage IMHO.  By the time I can craft it, more than likely I have already found it. 

 

 

I find it a mixed bag, somethings I find items well above my crafting level but other items I can craft well above the level I am finding.

I think there is more balance required, which is why I am using a mod to help even out the RNG (as I can turn the magazines I have no use for into ones I need).

 

I like both looting and building.

I find the new magazine system delays when I start building, because I don't want to spend lots of time collecting resources with stone tools.

Apart from that minor inconvenience I like the new system.

 

[Ramethzer0]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:58 AM, ungkor said:

Anyway, I'll check back on the status of the game if it moves to Beta.  Which I don't think will ever happen, but we will see.  Take care everyone

 

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Edited November 22, 2023 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)