Honey and Anti biotic nerf

[Realism51]

The nerf to honey and antibiotics need to be rolled back. Died of infection, and in 13 days of game play I found only 3 honey out of hundreds of trees and tree stumps (yes I had the perk fo rhoney in trees), zero anti-biotics dropped in any loot during those 13 days, nothing in 2 trader inventories, nor any given in rewards.  Given how easy it is to become infected in early game, the reduction in antiobiotics, herbals, and honey is just some straight up BS

[hiemfire]

2 minutes ago, Realism51 said:

The nerf to honey and antibiotics need to be rolled back. Died of infection, and in 13 days of game play I found only 3 honey out of hundreds of trees and tree stumps (yes I had the perk fo rhoney in trees), zero anti-biotics dropped in any loot during those 13 days, nothing in 2 trader inventories, nor any given in rewards.  Given how easy it is to become infected in early game, the reduction in antiobiotics, herbals, and honey is just some straight up BS

Did you check Jen's and Rekt's? If they're going to pop up in trader inventories honey would probably pop up in both and antibiotics would pop up in Jen's (Jen is meds and medical components, Rekt is farming and food stuffs ).

[pApA^LeGBa]

I mean that´s kinda the whole point of infection. To be a threat.

 

If we roll back they could basically remove infection aswell as there was never a real threat to it because you usually had enough honey before you even got infected. I have several thousand hours, and infection was never an issue not even back then when i started. It was basically only something clogging up your inventory with honey and antibiotics if you found them. Nothing more.

 

Now it´s different, i did have to spend a lot of time to find pop and pills stores and Jen in order to not die.

Edited September 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

I am ambivalent about the change as it seems to me looking for honey in tree stumps is actually a losing strategy as I seem to get more than 5% infection by the time I find the next honey while searching for tree stumps. And in the first days I might find honey but die of starvation or thirst because I can't tend to other important task while searching.

 

So in my last games I have just played on like normal and waited for either trader stock/lucky quest reward of antibiotics or for my deteriorating health leading to death in one way or another.

 

One solution I could think of would be that the trader always has some antibiotics around but he wants 2000 dukes per pill.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[RStarphoenix]

I haven't been having much of an issue finding honey and/or antibiotics of some type since they changed it. It seems you get MORE from Traders now (through dukes or quests) and I been finding honey & antibiotics in crates. Could be I'm also buying physician perk & lucky looter early on. Finding infection cures seems to be most problematic on Days 1 & 2 since you probably aren't questing heavily.

[binf_shinana]

切り株からはちみつが出る可能性は20%もあるため、期待値的には5つ、運が悪くても10も壊せば一つは持っているでしょう。
また、ゾンビにヒットされないようにしてください。私は、立ち止まって戦うプレイヤーをマルチプレイでかなりたくさん見てきましたが、それは絶対にやってはいけません。

 

(google translation)

There is a 20% chance that honey will come out of the stump, so the expected value is 5, and even if you are unlucky, if you break 10, you will have one.
Also, try not to get hit by zombies. I've seen quite a few players stand still and fight in multiplayer, and you should never do that.

[RipClaw]

I didn't realize there was a nerf except for the tree stumps in POIs. I usually get my antibiotics in the early game through quest rewards and I regularly buy honey from the trader.

 

Also, you get the recipe for herbal antibiotics very early in the game. The main ingredients are blueberries and mushrooms. For the blueberries there is a farm POI with blueberry bushes and for the mushrooms there is a mine POI and the Judy Witch POI.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Even with the nerf, infections are bearly a threat 

 

Unlike alpha 18, that just was too much 

Rather then 7 in game days it should take 2 

[Riamus]

Considering I'm on day 4 and have a couple unused honey and 4 herbal antibiotics and I'm not trying to find any, I think it is working just fine.  Honey is easy enough to get but you want to get it before being infected if possible.  RNG can be bad, yes.  But that's not a reason to change things.  The honey didn't even come from stumps but from chopping a dozen or so trees for extra wood to build a small base (I was short from the 1500 I got in a quest reward).

Edited September 14, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[warmer]

Honey in stumps is totally random. I have literally got 2 from the first two stumps I chopped after starting a game, and other times gone through 19 stumps in a row before I got one.

[BFT2020]

I can't think of any time I died from infection from A20 and on.

 

What has been changed:

• Traders
  • Antibiotics
    • All traders now have a 50% chance of antibiotics when inventories restock
    • Rare medicine has one less item in its group so a higher chance of getting Antibiotics compared to A19
    • Jen has additional chances of stocking antibiotics
  • Honey
    • All traders have a chance of stocking honey (part of general food supplies)
    • Rekt has additional chances of stocking honey
• Tree Stumps
  • All tree stumps have a 20% chance of dropping honey (compared to 40% for POI stumps in the past)
    • Not really a nerf, this makes everything consistent and intended

 

Note - you only have a 5% chance of finding honey in trees after you get the book.  It is not a huge chance of finding it.

 

If anything, treating infections has been buffed and not nerfed.  The 40% to 20% change on POI stumps is outweighed by the increase chance of traders having the blue pill in their stock.  At 13 days, that's 5 restocks at your local trader (Day 1, 4, 7, 10, & 13) so 5 chances at a 50% success rate of the local trader having that medicine in stock - And this is only if you found one trader only.  Even at my slow rate of doing 1 quest per day max, I know where the second trader is by Day 7/8.

 

I always make sure I have the blue pill in my stock, even if I don't have an infection yet.  If I get lucky and see the local trader has it in their stock on Day 1, that is the very first thing I purchase from them.  I also cut down every stump I come across as I travel to locations, even if I don't need it.  Because once you do need it, it is better to already have it in stock than desperately trying to find it.

 

If I do have an infection, I wait until it gets closer to the limit of the  medicine I do have (20% for herbal, 50% for the blue pill) before I take it (in case I get infected again).  I don't use them as soon as I get infection (honey I do since it is a 5% heal).

[Gamida]

I also thought there was mention of a little higher chance of finding honey in stumps on pois than finding it out in the wild

[Krougal]

Yeah, infection has been made pretty irrelevant.

By the time I can make antibiotics I've already looted stacks of them, not to mention herbals and honey.

Now granted, if I am not carrying any, then it's like good luck finding them and I have to wait until I get home, but then there comes a point where you rarely get hit, let alone infected.

Not to mention I'm not even sure what the penalties are anymore, and then dying isn't such a big deal if you need to, but I don't feel that making infection and other injuries persist is fair, I mean you died, you should get a fresh start. If the RNG doesn't cut you a break then you could be stuck in a death loop and that is not any fun for anybody.

[Adam the Waster]

The infection could uses more debuffs,

 

Like 5% less stamina, -1 too all stats and uses 25% more food and water 

 

Second tier is 30% less stamina and -3 stats

 

 

 it takes 60 minutes to die or 120 minutes 

 

 

[Javabean867]

I was going to say i didn't know of any ners to infections.  I mean just play a little less aggressive, and heal when you are injured.  That basically removes any chances for injuries and infections.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, Javabean867 said:

I was going to say i didn't know of any ners to infections.  I mean just play a little less aggressive, and heal when you are injured.  That basically removes any chances for injuries and infections.

Play more aggressive. Make them dead before they can hurt you.

 

Remember Mal's words:

"Well, I ain't them. And don't you ever stand for that sort of thing. Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

[Realism51]

 

13 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I mean that´s kinda the whole point of infection. To be a threat.

 

If we roll back they could basically remove infection aswell as there was never a real threat to it because you usually had enough honey before you even got infected. I have several thousand hours, and infection was never an issue not even back then when i started. It was basically only something clogging up your inventory with honey and antibiotics if you found them. Nothing more.

 

Now it´s different, i did have to spend a lot of time to find pop and pills stores and Jen in order to not die.

 

I have no problem with infection being there, just that the drop rate for honey and ways to fight it went way too low, I legit scoured the city I was in and went outside it trying to find anything, and nothing was there

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

One solution I could think of would be that the trader always has some antibiotics around but he wants 2000 dukes per pill.

 

Now This I can be on board with, or certain traders being gauranteed to have certain items, or maybe even for someone like trader Jen to be able to heal you for x amount of dukes.  Imagine if you could train skills for dukes at some point as well. Like 1,000 dukes at first, but increases by 1.5 per time

9 hours ago, binf_shinana said:

切り株からはちみつが出る可能性は20%もあるため、期待値的には5つ、運が悪くても10も壊せば一つは持っているでしょう。
また、ゾンビにヒットされないようにしてください。私は、立ち止まって戦うプレイヤーをマルチプレイでかなりたくさん見てきましたが、それは絶対にやってはいけません。

 

(google translation)

There is a 20% chance that honey will come out of the stump, so the expected value is 5, and even if you are unlucky, if you break 10, you will have one.
Also, try not to get hit by zombies. I've seen quite a few players stand still and fight in multiplayer, and you should never do that.

Well for me, I dont stand still but I am the Shovel Lord. I do Shovel only games, so getting up close and personal is kind of my thing

[Riamus]

6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

If I do have an infection, I wait until it gets closer to the limit of the  medicine I do have (20% for herbal, 50% for the blue pill) before I take it (in case I get infected again).  I don't use them as soon as I get infection (honey I do since it is a 5% heal).

Had this changed in A21?  I haven't actually paid attention.  In A20, honey was 5%, herbals 10%, and regular antibiotics 25%.

 

5 hours ago, Gamida said:

I also thought there was mention of a little higher chance of finding honey in stumps on pois than finding it out in the wild

In A20, it was 40% chance for POI stumps.  In A21, it was reduced to 20% to match wilderness stumps, which I think is a good decision.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Had this changed in A21?  I haven't actually paid attention.  In A20, honey was 5%, herbals 10%, and regular antibiotics 25%.

 

In A20, it was 40% chance for POI stumps.  In A21, it was reduced to 20% to match wilderness stumps, which I think is a good decision.

 

Nope, for some reason, I doubled them in my head without realizing what I was doing, Herbal - 10% and Biotics - 25%

[Dark Wun]

I definitely noticed the nerf to the honey drop rate from tree stumps in A21 - it was a marked difference; however, it wasn't game breaking by any means.

 

The last game I started, I had to spend a good chunk of the day 1 or day 2 (I forget) to get my first honey from wild stumps, but it's worth it. Try to have honey before actually getting infected because chances are against you for getting one from a stump before you reach 5% infection.

 

There's no way the drop rate is 20%, unless i'm not understanding the other posters here. It's not 1 honey per 5 stumps chopped, no way, more like 5% or 1 in 20.

 

Also, the wood gathered from getting that first honey is very useful early game, so it's not like you're totally wasting time.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Dark Wun said:

I definitely noticed the nerf to the honey drop rate from tree stumps in A21 - it was a marked difference; however, it wasn't game breaking by any means.

 

The last game I started, I had to spend a good chunk of the day 1 or day 2 (I forget) to get my first honey from wild stumps, but it's worth it. Try to have honey before actually getting infected because chances are against you for getting one from a stump before you reach 5% infection.

 

There's no way the drop rate is 20%, unless i'm not understanding the other posters here. It's not 1 honey per 5 stumps chopped, no way, more like 5% or 1 in 20.

 

Also, the wood gathered from getting that first honey is very useful early game, so it's not like you're totally wasting time.

It is 20% even if it sometimes doesn't seem like it.  I've had multiple honey in a row and times when it took 10 stumps for 1 honey.  That's just how RNG works.  There is no guarantee of 1 in 5.  Each stump has a 20% chance, no matter how many stumps you've done.  On average, over a few hundred stumps, you'll start to see 20%.  With a smaller number, the RNG chance can make it feel either really plentiful or really rare or anywhere in between.  You can easily verify in the XML that it's 20% for all stumps.

[Ramethzer0]

6 hours ago, Realism51 said:

I have no problem with infection being there, just that the drop rate for honey and ways to fight it went way too low, I legit scoured the city I was in and went outside it trying to find anything, and nothing was there

 

Have you considered the efficacy of crafting arrows and going ranged, instead of risking infection and wasting your day looking for a cure?

[Dark Wun]

55 minutes ago, Riamus said:

You can easily verify in the XML that it's 20% for all stumps

 

Hard to argue with that. I've been extremely unlucky the last couple of restarts in A21 then. In one game I chopped 15-20 stumps before I got my first honey. Second game it was about the same but certainly not in line with the 20%.

 

If it truly is 20%, then there's no need for anyone to complain about the lack of honey early game , chopping 5 stumps (on average) is quite insignificant of a time investment for the pay off, plus you get the much needed wood for building and arrows.

[binf_shinana]

まあ、このゲームにおいて確率が記載どおりでないケースはいくつか実際にあります。統計を取って明らかにおかしい結果になった事象もありました。

つまり、確率が数値通りでないことを証明するには有意な数で統計を取る必要があります。人間の体感ほどあてにならないものはありません。勝率70～80%程度で「五分五分のゲームである」と感じる生き物だからです。

 

(google translation)

Well, there are actually some cases in this game where the probabilities are not as stated. There were some events where the statistics showed clearly strange results.

In other words, in order to prove that the probability is not the same as the numerical value, it is necessary to take statistics with significant numbers. There is nothing more unreliable than human experience. This is because the winning rate is around 70-80%, making it feel like a 50-50 game.

Edited September 15, 2023 by binf_shinana (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

This has been mentioned, but doing one's best to reduce getting hit helps out a lot.  I removed the ability of food to heal HP in my game, and reduced the effectiveness of healing items.  So getting hit in game impacts me more.