a21.1 b6 cloth cost increase

[Vaeliorin]

24 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I try never to have more than 4 perks active at the same time.

This to me is the biggest problem with the change.  The game actively punishes you now for having points in multiple skills. 

 

8 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Farming especially since it caps out at like 22, would suck to keep getting the mag all the time Not to mention talk about tedious, to me farming is @%$#ing tedious. I throw down like 20 plots and use whatever seeds I find, try to remember to harvest & replant when I can. Put perk points into it? Pfffttt!

 

papa's experience with the cooking mags is wierd though, I currently have no points in chef, last game I think I put a point or 2 in late game, but cooking mags seem common (and really, they need to be), especially in the locations he searched.

 

Mags get dropped from the loot table unless you're looting something that can only drop specific types of magazines.  So after I max cooking, the only place I find cooking magazines any longer are food piles.  Similarly with medical magazines in medical piles and Forge Ahead in cement mixers.  Getting things like seed/cooking/medical magazines out of the loot table means you're more likely to find things that are useful in book cases.

[BFT2020]

Magazines never drop out of the loot tables.  When you find all of the magazines in a series, the bonus boost from Perks is reset to 0. 

 

Each magazine has an equal chance of being found in a container that has them unless you perk into one of the perks.  At that point, it adds a boost (usually from 20% to 100%) as you level up on the perks.

 

So if you perk once into living off the land, you have a 20% boost of finding seeds magazines.  So using a Shamway crate as an example, you have two magazines in there - seeds and cooking.  With no perks, you have an equal chance of getting either one of them.  If you perk into LoTL at the first level, you have a 1.2/2.2 chance of picking the seeds one while only a 1/2.2 chance of picking the cooking one.

 

Also, I don't think you are getting hit as hard as some people think if you spread your perks around.  A lot of the loot groups are setup to be specialized with magazines (so ranged weapons, melee weapons, etc.).   

 

For example:

 

• 1 Perk in shotguns, cooking, armor, adv engineering, miner69er
• 3 Perks into knives, handguns, and bows

 

• So shotguns, cooking, armor, electrician, traps, workstations, harvest tools, and repair tools are 1.2
• Knives, handguns, and bows are 1.6

 

In a shotgun messiah crate, you would have (assuming one of the choices ends up being the crafting magazine):

• 27.6% chance of finding a handgun magazine
• 20.7% chance of finding a shotgun magazine
• 17.2% chance of finding the other 3 magazines (rifles, machine guns, explosives)

 

In a container that draws all magazines from, you have the following (assuming one of the choices ends up being the crafting magazine):

• Level 3 perks:  6.1%
• Level 1 perks:  4.5%
• No Perks:  3.8%

 

So putting points into the perks moves the chances a little better for that crafting magazine, but you are not getting penalized greatly doing so.

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

The second is that you should not waste points in Physician or Living of the Land. These two magazines can be found in abundance anyway, even without a boost. And if possible, you should only put points into a few perks that boost skill magazines. I try never to have more than 4 perks active at the same time.

 

If the only reason a person is putting points into those perks is to get magazines faster, than true.

 

However, there are other benefits from those perks to spend points into:

• LoTL - reduction in crafting costs for farm plots and increase harvest yields
• Physician - instant cures of sprains, faster crafting in chemistry stations

The magazine find is a bonus part of the perks, but should never be considered as the primary reason to perk into them.  If that is the only reason you perk into those categories, then it will always seem to be a waste of a perk point.

Edited August 21, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[Krougal]

20 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Magazines never drop out of the loot tables.  When you find all of the magazines in a series, the bonus boost from Perks is reset to 0. 

 

Each magazine has an equal chance of being found in a container that has them unless you perk into one of the perks.  At that point, it adds a boost (usually from 20% to 100%) as you level up on the perks.

 

However, there are other benefits from those perks to spend points into:

• LoTL - reduction in crafting costs for farm plots and increase harvest yields
• Physician - instant cures of sprains, faster crafting in chemistry stations

The magazine find is a bonus part of the perks, but should never be considered as the primary reason to perk into them.  If that is the only reason you perk into those categories, then it will always seem to be a waste of a perk point.

I didn't realize it was such a small adjustment, but it certainly adds up over time. 

 

The other benefit for physician is if you use the stun baton as your primary. 10% insta-kill is nothing to sneeze at, especially on higher difficulty, 20% dismember isn't too shabby either.

[Vaeliorin]

44 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Magazines never drop out of the loot tables.  When you find all of the magazines in a series, the bonus boost from Perks is reset to 0.

You say that, but in several hundred hours of A21, I have yet to find a crafting magazine for a series I had completed outside of a loot container that specifically drops that magazine type.  It's one of the reasons I'm so happy to complete the cooking series, because I hate getting them from bookcases/book crates.  Heck, you never even find them in cupboards any longer after you complete the series, just out of food piles.

 

I'm not arguing what the xml says.  It's pretty clear.  And yet experience (and a decent amount of it) implies there must be something beyond the xml that effects the drop of magazines.  I can't recall ever getting a crafting magazine of a type I've completed from a bookcase or skill magazine bundle.

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I've never had issues with cloth. I mean it sure seems super-rare these days, but even more rare is fuel. Not one single vehicle on the entire map gives fuel now, even with max skills from what I can tell. This means you have to get enough crafting skill books to make it, then enough mining skill to mine enough to make it worthwhile, and once all the oil shale is gone, you do what? Chunk reset is the only option in my book now, but I kind of like that concept anyway.

 

I'd like to see some amount of fuel from cars again, but not so much that I have an entire vault full of it like before. Springs seem to be rare. Pipes are more on the rare side of things now. Antibiotics? Jesus, those are super-duper-insane-o-rare! Oh and to make them you have to skill into medical a lot. Hope you play like a god and never get hit once by a zombie dog!

 

It's all a balancing act. We're chugging through it all and aside from the infection drugs seemingly being only allow mid-to-late game or gas being hard to get, it's all good. The devs will see the feedback and do their thing until it's balanced.

[Krougal]

They should bring back making ethanol from corn. As it is, I have had no reason to grow corn since it is so plentiful and so either potato/mushroom/fat/meat or more likely water are my limiting factors, but I am not having trouble staying fed.

 

There is plenty of shale to be found though, and I don't really remember ever mining it before A21 but I sure do now. Still, I've made 1 trip per game so far. Now lead otoh, I mine lead like one day a week the junk turrets chew through so much ammo.

 

So fuel is a big issue before you can make your own, I pretty much stick to the minibike and don't go crazy with powered devices in my base before then. The fuel saver mods are also a big help.

 

Really don't use antibiotics or even make them. Honey early, honey often. They probably need to do some re-balancing there. Maybe make the late game radiated zombies give a stronger initial infection so that you need to use antibiotics at the later game stages? Otherwise it would just be too punishing for people starting out.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Krougal (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The magazines are not completely random. It is a weighted randomness.

 

And there are a couple of things that are good to know.

 

The first is that you should never put points into Advanced Engeering if you want to collect Forge Ahead magazines. You have to put the points into Lockpicking. Sounds strange, but the reason is that Advanced Engineering also boosts other magazines, whereas Lockpicking only boosts Forge Ahead magazines.

 

The second is that you should not waste points in Physician or Living of the Land. These two magazines can be found in abundance anyway, even without a boost. And if possible, you should only put points into a few perks that boost skill magazines. I try never to have more than 4 perks active at the same time.

 

 

Yeah i know about lock picking, but we want wiring and traps aswell. Demos come on day 21.

 

And exactly what you describe is why this is a bad system. Not more than 4 perks at the same time active is the new meta? I mean, really? That´s what TFP wants us to do?

Nah. That´s simply badly done.

 

Also physician is crucial imo. Beeing able to heal sprains is awesome. And someone has to put points into living off the land in MP Coop. It´s a must.

 

A crafting skill system that has a portion of randomness is simply not a good idea imo. Either make a good LBD with perks (not what we had in A16) or make it a point system again.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Magazines never drop out of the loot tables.  When you find all of the magazines in a series, the bonus boost from Perks is reset to 0. 

 

Each magazine has an equal chance of being found in a container that has them unless you perk into one of the perks.  At that point, it adds a boost (usually from 20% to 100%) as you level up on the perks.

 

So if you perk once into living off the land, you have a 20% boost of finding seeds magazines.  So using a Shamway crate as an example, you have two magazines in there - seeds and cooking.  With no perks, you have an equal chance of getting either one of them.  If you perk into LoTL at the first level, you have a 1.2/2.2 chance of picking the seeds one while only a 1/2.2 chance of picking the cooking one.

 

Also, I don't think you are getting hit as hard as some people think if you spread your perks around.  A lot of the loot groups are setup to be specialized with magazines (so ranged weapons, melee weapons, etc.).   

 

For example:

 

• 1 Perk in shotguns, cooking, armor, adv engineering, miner69er
• 3 Perks into knives, handguns, and bows

 

• So shotguns, cooking, armor, electrician, traps, workstations, harvest tools, and repair tools are 1.2
• Knives, handguns, and bows are 1.6

 

In a shotgun messiah crate, you would have (assuming one of the choices ends up being the crafting magazine):

• 27.6% chance of finding a handgun magazine
• 20.7% chance of finding a shotgun magazine
• 17.2% chance of finding the other 3 magazines (rifles, machine guns, explosives)

 

In a container that draws all magazines from, you have the following (assuming one of the choices ends up being the crafting magazine):

• Level 3 perks:  6.1%
• Level 1 perks:  4.5%
• No Perks:  3.8%

 

So putting points into the perks moves the chances a little better for that crafting magazine, but you are not getting penalized greatly doing so.

 

If the only reason a person is putting points into those perks is to get magazines faster, than true.

 

However, there are other benefits from those perks to spend points into:

• LoTL - reduction in crafting costs for farm plots and increase harvest yields
• Physician - instant cures of sprains, faster crafting in chemistry stations

The magazine find is a bonus part of the perks, but should never be considered as the primary reason to perk into them.  If that is the only reason you perk into those categories, then it will always seem to be a waste of a perk point.

 

Then explain something that confuses me: Everywhere else in xml percentages (for perc_add for example) are written in mathematical notations, i.e. as ".2" (meaning 20%). Example:

 

<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" level="1" value=".1">

 

meaning 10% I would assume.

 

But with the magazines I see 

 

<passive_effect name="LootProb" operation="perc_add" level="1,5" value="2,10" tags="spearSkill"/>

 

So shouldn't this mean 200% increase per perk level?

 

Even if it used percent notation then it would only be 2% per step, which obviously doesn't fit reality. I just don't see 20% in those numbers at all

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Stranded_Napkin]

6 hours ago, Krougal said:

There are a few other resources that just seem to accumulate too much of with no good use for. 

That's literally just how a sandbox game works. If you do not use it, it piles up. Why do we need a fix for something as benign as that? Are we going to gloss over the whole thing when The Fun Pimps decide 10k feathers is too much to have on hand so you now need 25 feathers per arrow? Just because they made the absurd number actually usable doesn't make it a good change. It's literally like the only goal they have is to kill in all ways any immersion the player can find in the game.

 

Yeah, I know, nobody on the forums cares about immersion anyways.

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Then explain something that confuses me: Everywhere else in xml percentages (for perc_add for example) are written in mathematical notations, i.e. as ".2" (meaning 20%). Example:

 

<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" level="1" value=".1">

 

meaning 10% I would assume.

 

But with the magazines I see 

 

<passive_effect name="LootProb" operation="perc_add" level="1,5" value="2,10" tags="spearSkill"/>

 

So shouldn't this mean 200% increase per perk level?

 

Even if it used percent notation then it would only be 2% per step, which obviously doesn't fit reality. I just don't see 20% in those numbers at all

 

 

 

Not sure where I got my numbers from this afternoon, but they seem even better than what they are.

 

It was noted that the perks increases the chance of finding items slightly.  So the LootProb variable won't be similar to the other ones where the percentage is based off of decimal points (which in your example, 0.1 equates to a 10% increase).

 

I highly doubt that 2 equals 200% increase whereas the 10 would mean a 1000% increase in finding those magazines.  In my mind, I converted 2,10 to a 20%,100% scale but looking over it, it could easily be a 2%,10% scale which has a much smaller impact on the loot tables so perking into multiple perks shouldn't hamstring the  player.

 

From the dev diary

• Perks slightly affect the probability of finding like-themed magazines and parts for those recipes. Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world. It isn't a significant bonus but it does prevent the player from being screwed over.

[theFlu]

37 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Perks slightly affect the probability of finding like-themed magazines

I think that is correct, for suitably weak values of "slight". I've recorded exactly one set of results from the only game where I got to max, I posted it on the forums here: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32143-poll-which-progression-system-did-you-prefer/?do=findComment&comment=529722

 

"spears 11
knucks 13, machine guns 13
clubs 16, sledges 16, shotguns 16
bows 17
explosives 22
rifles 28
robotics 29
blades 75/75
handguns 100/100"

 

Blades had been full for a while, handguns had just gotten full. Between unspecced and fully specced the difference in those is 3 to 9 -fold.

[Orabast]

I'll admit, this simple 1 pocket mod costing 100 cloth caught me off-guard and my first instinct was to the forums and complain about it  But as I type this, I realized that we are swimming in cloth by mid to late game. Then I had a epiphany, it's actually quite fun to work for this early game. Enjoy the little stuff, good luck & have fun!

[RipClaw]

8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

And exactly what you describe is why this is a bad system. Not more than 4 perks at the same time active is the new meta? I mean, really? That´s what TFP wants us to do?

Nah. That´s simply badly done.

It's at least the way I stay on par with the Traderstage and the Lootstage with my crafting skills, or sometimes even ahead. When I look at the videos of Gun, Nerds and Steel, WaywardEcho and IzPrebuilt the meta is rather that you drink a Fergit'n Elixir, respec, do what you want to do (e.g. mining) and then respec back.
 

I think the basic idea of the developers was that you passively improve your crafting skills while looting and don't actively hunt for magazines. But this stupid gamestage progresses relentlessly. And if you can't craft steel in time, you'll have a hard time against the demolishers. So you do what you have to do to stay ahead of the curve. You take advantage of the boosting system.

 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

8 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

It's at least the way I stay on par with the Traderstage and the Lootstage with my crafting skills, or sometimes even ahead. When I look at the videos of Gun, Nerds and Steel, WaywardEcho and IzPrebuilt the meta is rather that you drink a Fergit'n Elixir, respec, do what you want to do (e.g. mining) and then respec back.
 

 

Yeah that´s the extreme meta. No fun at all. It´s even worse and way more artifical than focusing on bookshelves and mailboxes during an apocalypse.

 

I used to watch GNS. But the extreme rush trough the game min/maxing everything is not entertaining anymore.

[meganoth]

12 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Not sure where I got my numbers from this afternoon, but they seem even better than what they are.

 

It was noted that the perks increases the chance of finding items slightly.  So the LootProb variable won't be similar to the other ones where the percentage is based off of decimal points (which in your example, 0.1 equates to a 10% increase).

 

I highly doubt that 2 equals 200% increase whereas the 10 would mean a 1000% increase in finding those magazines.  In my mind, I converted 2,10 to a 20%,100% scale but looking over it, it could easily be a 2%,10% scale which has a much smaller impact on the loot tables so perking into multiple perks shouldn't hamstring the  player.

 

From the dev diary

• Perks slightly affect the probability of finding like-themed magazines and parts for those recipes. Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world. It isn't a significant bonus but it does prevent the player from being screwed over.

 

I put more confidence in what I see in the XML than the dev diary, just like comments in code are much less accurate than the code. The dev diary doesn't take mistakes and bugs into account and neither any balancing changes made after someone wrote that sentence.

 

And what we experience in game really doesn't fit a 2% bonus at all. If the chance of finding one magazine in 17 were 1.1, and the rest 1, you would not have that magazine in about one third of all book containers.

 

For me it looks like a bug because someone forgot about the mathematical notation and simply used percentage. Or they found out that a small buff just had no impact (looking at say 4 days of play) and pushed it up until they noticed one.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[binf_shinana]

雑誌システムは、はっきり言って現在は品質が1のM60を入手するために全力を尽くし、それによってT4,5のクエストを円滑に行う以外の用途はありません。
それ以降は雑誌を集める前に、クエスト報酬のほうが容易に上を行きます。
また、雑誌が出やすくなるスキルを2つ以上取得すると、クエスト報酬の早すぎる進行速度に負けます。
間違えてはいけないのは、雑誌システムが弱いのではなくクエスト報酬が良すぎるということです。

(Google Translation)

The magazine system is clearly doing their best to get a quality 1 M60 right now and has no use other than facilitating the T4,5 quest.
After that, the quest rewards will easily outweigh the magazines before collecting them.
Also, if you acquire two or more skills that make it easier to get magazines, you will lose to the too fast progress speed of the quest reward.
Make no mistake, it's not that the magazine system is weak, but that the quest rewards are too good.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

I put more confidence in what I see in the XML than the dev diary, just like comments in code are much less accurate than the code. The dev diary doesn't take mistakes and bugs into account and neither any balancing changes made after someone wrote that sentence.

 

And what we experience in game really doesn't fit a 2% bonus at all. If the chance of finding one magazine in 17 were 1.1, and the rest 1, you would not have that magazine in about one third of all book containers.

 

For me it looks like a bug because someone forgot about the mathematical notation and simply used percentage. Or they found out that a small buff just had no impact (looking at say 4 days of play) and pushed it up until they noticed one.

 

Maybe we are looking at this wrong (I haven't checked the code myself so I apologize if I am just way off).

What if it is a percentage bonus to the base chance?

So a 20% bonus. If the chance of that magazine were a 1, then it would be bumped to 1.2 and so on and so forth for each increasing level, 2.0 at max.

[meganoth]

33 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Maybe we are looking at this wrong (I haven't checked the code myself so I apologize if I am just way off).

What if it is a percentage bonus to the base chance?

So a 20% bonus. If the chance of that magazine were a 1, then it would be bumped to 1.2 and so on and so forth for each increasing level, 2.0 at max.

 

The "percentage bonus being applied to base chance" is exactly what our theories are based on. How high that percentage is is the question.

 

BFT thinks it is 20% just like you.

 

But the number in the xml is "2" which neither fits mathematical nor percentage notation for 20% and also doesn't fit with how percentage numbers are used anywhere else in XML.

If TFP isn't deliberately trying to confuse their own coders then it must be either bumped to 1.02 or 3, increasing to 1.1 or 11 at max. The only wiggle room I see is if it were applied differently than we think

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[binf_shinana]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

「基本チャンスに適用されるボーナスの割合」は、まさに私たちの理論が基づいているものです。その割合がどれくらい高いかが問題だ。

 

BFT は、20% があなたと同じだと考えています。

 

しかし、XML 内の数値は「2」であり、これは 20% の数学的表記にもパーセンテージ表記にも適合せず、XML 内の他の場所でパーセンテージ数値が使用される方法にも適合しません。

TFP が意図的に自身のプログラマーを混乱させようとしていない場合は、TFP を 1.02 または 3 に上げ、最大で 1.1 または 11 に増やす必要があります。私が考える唯一の余地は、それが私たちが考えているのとは異なる方法で適用されたかどうかです

 

これについては、スキルレベルごとに+200%の出現率重みアップです。
雑誌は全23冊あるため、スキル未取得の場合はすべて出現率は1/23≒4.4%です。
1つの雑誌を担当するスキルを1レベル取得した場合、確率は1+2/23+2≒12%です。
3レベルの場合、1+6/23+6≒24%です。
たぶんね。

(Google Translation)

This is a +200% spawn weight increase per skill level.
There are 23 magazines in total, so if you don't have the skill, the appearance rate is 1/23≒4.4%.
If you acquire 1 level of the skill in charge of 1 magazine, the probability is 1+2/23+2≒12%.
For 3rd level, 1+6/23+6≒24%.
maybe.

[BFT2020]

20 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

The "percentage bonus being applied to base chance" is exactly what our theories are based on. How high that percentage is is the question.

 

BFT thinks it is 20% just like you.

 

But the number in the xml is "2" which neither fits mathematical nor percentage notation for 20% and also doesn't fit with how percentage numbers are used anywhere else in XML.

If TFP isn't deliberately trying to confuse their own coders then it must be either bumped to 1.02 or 3, increasing to 1.1 or 11 at max. The only wiggle room I see is if it were applied differently than we think

 

 

I also need to pull the 21.1 config files, I have A21.0 config files on my work computer so I am at least one version behind.

 

That's the million dollar question, how is it applied in game via the source code.

 

It might be weighted a lot more than I expected.  With max value of 10, that means you will see a probability variation of 1 to 11 between unperked and perked magazines.  Just looking at an example where 6 magazines perked out vs 17 magazines are not, you see a difference of probability of 13% vs 1% (with all magazines having a chance to drop) or a 73% vs 6% chance of drop of 5 magazines with 1 perk maxed out.

 

It might be exactly as you believe it to be, as I am more going on what I believe it should be rather than what the game code might say.  It could be balanced more towards pulling from a larger pool of magazines (Crack a Book) vs a smaller subset (Shotgun messiah crate).

[meganoth]

37 minutes ago, binf_shinana said:

これについては、スキルレベルごとに+200%の出現率重みアップです。
雑誌は全23冊あるため、スキル未取得の場合はすべて出現率は1/23≒4.4%です。
1つの雑誌を担当するスキルを1レベル取得した場合、確率は1+2/23+2≒12%です。
3レベルの場合、1+6/23+6≒24%です。
たぶんね。

(Google Translation)

This is a +200% spawn weight increase per skill level.
There are 23 magazines in total, so if you don't have the skill, the appearance rate is 1/23≒4.4%.
If you acquire 1 level of the skill in charge of 1 magazine, the probability is 1+2/23+2≒12%.
For 3rd level, 1+6/23+6≒24%.
maybe.

 

Exactly. And these numbers conform with my experience how the magazines drop in actual gameplay.

 

I think an easy test would be to start a new game with zombies turned off, get exactly one (preferably weapon) perk to 5 (prob= 33%) and loot all bookcontainers and newspaperboxes in a city you can find. 100 should be enough to get a clear picture as approximately 1/3 of your magazines should be of this weapon if no other factors wheigh in.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

The "percentage bonus being applied to base chance" is exactly what our theories are based on. How high that percentage is is the question.

 

BFT thinks it is 20% just like you.

 

But the number in the xml is "2" which neither fits mathematical nor percentage notation for 20% and also doesn't fit with how percentage numbers are used anywhere else in XML.

If TFP isn't deliberately trying to confuse their own coders then it must be either bumped to 1.02 or 3, increasing to 1.1 or 11 at max. The only wiggle room I see is if it were applied differently than we think

 

Maybe I'm not phrasing it right, I'm not 100% sure what to call it.

The 1 is a 1 out of however many other numbers we throw in the pool right? So it's like we throw however many balls in and we draw a ball at random. So it is now 1.2 balls.

It's a 20% addition to whatever chance it has, which is not the same as a straight 20% (I think, I am not a mathematician).

 

So if we've got 3 items in the pool and they each had a 1, then they've got a 1/3 chance, but we just gave the 1 a bump and....no, that is an even lower increase, the numbers don't seem to jive with what we are looting.

 

My magazines follow the same pattern reported by others, my chosen perks are maxed early, the ones that are more likely to spawn (cooking, etc) also maxed regardless of perks and then other weapons are all fairly low until endgame.

[8_Hussars]

11 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I used to watch GNS. But the extreme rush trough the game min/maxing everything is not entertaining anymore.

Are you confusing GNS with Izprebuilt?

GNS provides the best story based 7d2d content (with eko being a close second) while Izprebuilt is the min/max king.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

Maybe I'm not phrasing it right, I'm not 100% sure what to call it.

 

Look at the formula binf_shinana   has posted. A bonus of 20% would lead to this magazine being found with a chance of (1+.2)/(23+.2) = 0.0517 and every other magazine with a chance of 0.043. A minimal difference you would not be able to notice at all.

 

And I assume that is what you meant to say, and that is exactly how we interpret it as well. Yes, we assume that there are 0.2 more balls in the pool when adding that 20% chance.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

If I got some time tonight, I may start up a game with no zombies and loot multiple containers - both book cases and crates / chests.  I think pulling data from both types (All magazine loot group and specialized loot groups) should point us very clearly how the bonus is working in-game.

 

As long as you don't read the magazines, you don't have to worry about your loot bonus resetting to zero after maxing it out.