Broken bow mechanics

[ElCabong]

I see what you mean with headshots and very frequently with the z standing sideways. I am always going how the hell did I miss that?

 

Yeah I don't think it's a bug. Aim for the chest, you'll hit them and they hurt. If they're standing sideways and you miss, they generally turn around and face you. Aim for the chest. Arrows and bolts are the cheapest ammo there is.

[Crater Creator]

12 hours ago, Reporter said:

...this post made for devs an devs only...

12 hours ago, Reporter said:

...This post is for devs

12 hours ago, Reporter said:

...so don't listen your community...

8 hours ago, Reporter said:

...That is my feedback for the devs and doesn’t concern other players. 

 

Aside from the on topic discussion about bow accuracy, I want to address this part of your posts, to insure that everyone understands what your thread is and isn’t.

 

This is not a private conversation where you communicate exclusively to the devs. This is a discussion forum. That means you are presenting what you write to other users for them to read and comment on if they choose, just as you can comment on what other people write (within the rules). We welcome people’s participation here. We do not tolerate bullying users out of participating.

[theFlu]

4 hours ago, ElCabong said:

Aim for the chest, you'll hit them and they hurt.

Just a minor gripe, but you're giving away more than half of your damage like that; might as well just waddle over and slap them across the cheeks at that point.

[Syphon583]

20 hours ago, Reporter said:

If the game only sucks with a low quality bow they must fix the low quality bow, because I aim correctly and the arrow passes through the zombies body. That's not correct and not acceptable with any type of arrow. That is my feedback for the devs and doesn’t concern other players.

So a low quality bow should be just as effective as high quality ones? That's absurd. Go out into the real world and tell me you see no difference between shooting a home-made wooden bow against a professional-grade composite bow.

[BFT2020]

13 hours ago, theFlu said:

Just a minor gripe, but you're giving away more than half of your damage like that; might as well just waddle over and slap them across the cheeks at that point.

 

Sometimes though, it is better to get in that last shot (if you are currently equipped with the bow) while swapping to your melee weapon.  Getting the Z to stagger can save you a bit of time while switching out.

 

Normally, I am using the bow for sneak shots or ranged shots, but sometimes I lose track of my surroundings and have a Z get too close.  At that point, I am back peddling and letting an arrow fly as I start to get a better weapon for close combat.  Ami for the head for range attacks or sneak attacks, but body shots when you are overwhelmed and need to get some distance.

[theFlu]

11 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Sometimes though

No arguments with any of that, really. They were talking about a "sideways headshot" thou, if you're in trouble, that zed is not the cause of it

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

No arguments with any of that, really. They were talking about a "sideways headshot" thou, if you're in trouble, that zed is not the cause of it

Lol.  Not disagreeing, but have you seen how the zeds move sometimes? 😁

[theFlu]

6 minutes ago, Riamus said:

have you seen how the zeds move sometimes?

How would I put this ... they don't even need to move

https://odysee.com/@theFlu:d/2022-11-23-16-53-17-remux:b

 

[ElDudorino]

Thank you theFlu, I can't believe all these bow users are unaware of the bug that arrows pass through zombies.  It is a real thing affecting both arrows and thrown spears.  However, I believe it's only at point-blank range, which makes sense.  Common theory is that the projectile is generated in front of the player a bit and so its hitbox upon generation is already behind the hitbox of the zombie.  Yes, this is a real thing in the game and it has nothing to do with spread or player skill.

 

Aside from that, am I the only person who's profoundly bothered by the fact that bows have to be "reloaded" if you switch weapons after firing?  Example: I fire my bow and immediately switch to my club, then switch to the bow afterwards.  The bow then must be "reloaded" before I can use it.  If the bow is deployed with an arrow ready to fire some of the time, it should happen all of the time.  It doesn't have a magazine to reload; your dude is grabbing an arrow from the quiver.

[theFlu]

45 minutes ago, ElDudorino said:

However, I believe it's only at point-blank range, which makes sense.  Common theory is that the projectile is generated in front of the player a bit and so its hitbox upon generation is already behind the hitbox of the zombie. 

That's a familiar theory, but I don't think its necessarily accurate. Case in point, this thread was talking about the same animation as a headshot from the side. I think the head hit box just isn't there for a frame or two.

[meganoth]

43 minutes ago, ElDudorino said:

Thank you theFlu, I can't believe all these bow users are unaware of the bug that arrows pass through zombies.  It is a real thing affecting both arrows and thrown spears.  However, I believe it's only at point-blank range, which makes sense.  Common theory is that the projectile is generated in front of the player a bit and so its hitbox upon generation is already behind the hitbox of the zombie.  Yes, this is a real thing in the game and it has nothing to do with spread or player skill.

 

Many know of the bug. So? Bugs get fixed eventually and the OPs frustration was NOT about this bug.

 

43 minutes ago, ElDudorino said:

 

Aside from that, am I the only person who's profoundly bothered by the fact that bows have to be "reloaded" if you switch weapons after firing?  Example: I fire my bow and immediately switch to my club, then switch to the bow afterwards.  The bow then must be "reloaded" before I can use it.  If the bow is deployed with an arrow ready to fire some of the time, it should happen all of the time.  It doesn't have a magazine to reload; your dude is grabbing an arrow from the quiver.

 

After you shoot a bow it needs time to reload. If you switch in that time the reload doesn't happen. Which is exactly the same with guns when they have to reload. The disadvantage is obvious, the advantage is though that you can always interrupt a reload when you get into an oh-@%$# situation and for example have to switch to a different weapon immediately.

 

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, ElDudorino said:

Aside from that, am I the only person who's profoundly bothered by the fact that bows have to be "reloaded" if you switch weapons after firing?  Example: I fire my bow and immediately switch to my club, then switch to the bow afterwards.  The bow then must be "reloaded" before I can use it.  If the bow is deployed with an arrow ready to fire some of the time, it should happen all of the time.  It doesn't have a magazine to reload; your dude is grabbing an arrow from the quiver.

 

Not really.  In real life, do you grab a bow from a table or next to you already preloaded and ready to fire?  If anything, the bow should never come preloaded until you got it in your hands, then you should have to reload it.

 

However, real life =/= gameplay; but it has never bothered me having to "reload" the arrow

3 hours ago, theFlu said:

No arguments with any of that, really. They were talking about a "sideways headshot" thou, if you're in trouble, that zed is not the cause of it

 

Yeah I always try to go for the headshot.

 

But I never have seen a situation where 6 out of 10 shots go though a zombie, even aiming it when they are sideways to me.  Most of the time, the misses are tied to either not compensating enough for the drop vs distance, overcompensating for drop, or them moving on me.  I would be burning through a lot of arrows if that was happening, and typically arrow loss for me is when they break after hitting the target.

[ElDudorino]

13 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Not really.  In real life, do you grab a bow from a table or next to you already preloaded and ready to fire?  If anything, the bow should never come preloaded until you got it in your hands, then you should have to reload it.

 

However, real life =/= gameplay; but it has never bothered me having to "reload" the arrow

In real life, bows aren't "loaded" when you aren't holding them.  But when you ready a bow, you're going to grab an arrow with your other hand. Therefore switching weapons after firing is irrelevant to the process.

 

There's no advantage in 7DtD to running around with the bow with no arrow. And because it's so counter-intuitive to switch to a bow, try to fire, and have my character not fire because the bow wasn't "loaded," I had numerous times where my bow should have fired and didn't. It's actually the main reason I completely stopped using bows. I hate trying to fire and having my character not fire due to some weird gamey non-reason that's not in any other game.

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Many know of the bug. So? Bugs get fixed eventually and the OPs frustration was NOT about this bug.

Is it not? He was going on about how arrows pass through zombies. Admittedly I stopped reading his posts carefully after the first because they were a little painful but arrows passing through zombies without hitting literally is a part of the game.

Edited March 17, 2023 by ElDudorino (see edit history)

[warmer]

I challenge anyone to make a bow from GRASS and some sticks IRL and get anything resembling a tight spread on shots.

 

Expectations vs reality.

 

Something that shoddy is literally breaking down little by little with every shot.

[edyonline]

It’s probably the way you are using it. If your crouched, charge your shot and aim slightly higher then your doing it right.

 

But if you sprinting in and shooting then your arrows will go all over the place, and would explain the missed body shots.

 

Im not a bow main, but when I do use it, I have no where near 6/10 bugged shots. I’ve probably had two bugged shots the entire time I’ve played.

 

Try spear throwing. That’s got some issues. The spear will literally fly right through a zeds body. Maybe 3/100.

 

Also, using iron arrows makes a huge difference with the drop arc.

Edited March 18, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[theFlu]

6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

But I never have seen a situation where 6 out of 10 shots go though a zombie, even aiming it when they are sideways to me.

I deemed addressing the 6/10 nonsense as feeding.. this isn't Dota, but I'll still try to avoid it.

Edited March 18, 2023 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Syphon583]

10 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

I can't believe all these bow users are unaware of the bug that arrows pass through zombies

I'm very aware of that bug. The thing is many players blow it way out of proportion, and from experience, it only affects shots where the target is within 1-2 blocks of you. Once you learn the subtleties of how they work, bows can be extremely effective.

 

I'm not denying the bug exists and very much look forward to when it is fixed. But it is far from game-breaking.

[zztong]

21 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

Aside from that, am I the only person who's profoundly bothered by the fact that bows have to be "reloaded" if you switch weapons after firing?

 

That's not a bug. If you don't finish reloading any weapon before you switch then it isn't reloaded.

 

21 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

I can't believe all these bow users are unaware of the bug that arrows pass through zombies.

 

I'm bow user and I've certainly had cases where I thought I made a good shot but missed. There was a time when I thought there might be a bug, but once I started to watch more closely I concluded there were other factors at play: (1) I sometimes "click" the mouse with a bit more energy and it changes my aim slightly (akin to jerking the trigger instead of squeezing it), and (2) some zombie animations include a pretty good head move that does a nice job throwing off my aim, and (3) some zombie animations related to standing up may not entirely represent where the zombie's head is at every point in the animation -- I'm not 100% sure that's the case and I'm not ready to call it a bug.

 

On 3/16/2023 at 10:59 PM, theFlu said:

Just a minor gripe, but you're giving away more than half of your damage like that; might as well just waddle over and slap them across the cheeks at that point.

 

I assume you're talking about a close shot. I take body shots all the time. If its a sneak attack, depending on the zombie and the game settings, I can kill some zombies by hitting them in any location, including the foot. Any attack I make at long range is a body shot.

Edited March 18, 2023 by zztong (see edit history)

[theFlu]

22 minutes ago, zztong said:

I assume you're talking about a close shot.

I'm talking about sacrificing the majority of your damage to simply avoid a 1% bug. I'd rather not.

 

If you can oneshot the @%$# with a bodyshot, you wouldn't opt for a headshot - you've changed the premise.

[FranticDan]

This game most definitely has an entity hitbox issue.

I've personally experienced these two things.

1) Arrows going through zombies faces. You can literally SEE the arrow go through their face. No question about it. It's uncommon but most definitely happens from time to time.

2) Whenever a downed zombie is starting to stand back up, their entire hitbox doesn't exist for a split second. Go ahead, melee that zombie (even their torso) at the very moment it starts to get up, your attack will hit the block they're laying on instead.

[ElDudorino]

3 hours ago, zztong said:

That's not a bug. If you don't finish reloading any weapon before you switch then it isn't reloaded.

Did you read the other posts about it? That's not how bows work so it makes no sense and there's no other game that works like that so it's completely unintuitive. Whether or not it's a "bug" is irrelevant.

 

I figured I wouldn't be the only person so bothered by it but I guess I was wrong.

2 hours ago, FranticDan said:

2) Whenever a downed zombie is starting to stand back up, their entire hitbox doesn't exist for a split second. Go ahead, melee that zombie (even their torso) at the very moment it starts to get up, your attack will hit the block they're laying on instead.

I've never noticed this but I have many times had the issue that head shots on downed zombies register as body shots because the hitbox for the chest 'blocks' the hitbox for the head. This is only a problem at low angles but is common to be bothersome.

Edited March 18, 2023 by ElDudorino (see edit history)

[zztong]

22 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

Did you read the other posts about it? That's not how bows work so it makes no sense and there's no other game that works like that so it's completely unintuitive. Whether or not it's a "bug" is irrelevant.

 

My apologies. I'm guilty of having skimmed the conversation.

[ElDudorino]

32 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

My apologies. I'm guilty of having skimmed the conversation.

 

Unforgivable!! 😮😡🤯

[Pernicious]

On 3/18/2023 at 4:53 AM, ElDudorino said:

Aside from that, am I the only person who's profoundly bothered by the fact that bows have to be "reloaded" if you switch weapons after firing?  

I think you addressed this in another reply, but I wanted to add more detail on.

 

If I load a gun, put it down on a table, then pick it up, the bullet does not leave the chamber and the magazine is not ejected.

 

If I load a crossbow, put it down on a table, then pick it up, the wire is still drawn, and the bolt is still in place.

 

If I nock an arrow, and align the arrow on the arrow rest and put it down, well, even with a modern "snap on" nock, the arrow is definitely coming off the arrow rest, and it's very unlikey the nock is in the correct position when I pick it up (even though it won't come off the string entirely, it will slide up and down it)

 

To be honest, it would irritate me more if it WAS still loaded when I switched back to it. But really, these things don't break immersion for me either way.

[ElDudorino]

2 hours ago, Pernicious said:

 

If I load a crossbow, put it down on a table, then pick it up, the wire is still drawn, and the bolt is still in place.

 

If I nock an arrow, and align the arrow on the arrow rest and put it down, well, even with a modern "snap on" nock, the arrow is definitely coming off the arrow rest, and it's very unlikey the nock is in the correct position when I pick it up (even though it won't come off the string entirely, it will slide up and down it)

 

Of course there's no arrow "loaded" when you pick up a bow. The point however is that 1) There would be no lost time grabbing an arrow with your main hand while grabbing the bow with your off-hand the way you do in literally every other game with bows and 2) The game is inconsistent because you *do* grab the bow "loaded" if it had been loaded when you switched it.

 

Because the behavior of the bow is inconsistent and it's not even obvious whether it's "armed" when you equip it, you end up in a weird situation where you can try to fire and your character just... doesn't.

 

I wouldn't mind nearly as much if your character would grab the arrow and start drawing the string from a single mouse press but if I'm expecting to fire and instead my dude doesn't do it because of this weird non-reason it's really frustrating.