New challenge: no loot, all materials must be obtained from logging/mining/salvaging

[warmer]

I come back to 72d2 now and then while waiting for A21 looking for a new challenge, and this just occurred to me today.

I think that no looting and all materials coming from logging/mining/salvaging would make the game really interesting.

Who else has tried this, and what did you

Not/like

About the game setup? Did you allow buying from traders? Did you encounter gamebreaking things like no ability to get a crucible if you don't use traders?

[RipClaw]

I don't think you can do without looting and without traders. For example, you need mechanical parts to build a wrench, but you can only get them by disassembling things with the wrench, by looting, or you can buy them from the trader. Without looting and without traders you also have no weapon or tool parts.

 

[hiemfire]

Wrenches, Mechanical parts, Electrical parts, steel tool parts and parts for each of the individual weapons that are currently unlocked (other than iron knuckles, the baseball bat and iron sledge iirc) via perk points are effectively loot/trader locked. So you'd be stuck topped out at nothing useable for salvage ops affected salvaging, Iron mining, digging and felling tools, and the primitive/scrap tier of weapons (outside of strength melee weapons which would be craftable to iron tier and iron knuckles). You're also hard locked going Int to 10 if you want steel at all iirc, though you won't have much use for it other than int unlocked vehicles and upgrading blocks (no parts for steel tools or weapons without looting or trader).

[warmer]

All great points. I thought you could still get parts from cars and vending machines without a wrench. 

 

Do the stone ax not give you those parts at all, or it is the fact that a car might blow up that is the issue.

[RipClaw]

3 minutes ago, warmer said:

All great points. I thought you could still get parts from cars and vending machines without a wrench. 

 

Do the stone ax not give you those parts at all, or it is the fact that a car might blow up that is the issue.

I think you can only get scrap iron from a car with a stone axe. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[theFlu]

Ye, mech parts is going to be a pain. If you allow yourself to loot zed drops, you should be somewhat fine, they can contain whatever you need. Slow, tedious, and base-oriented, but should be possible - it's not like you absolutely need anything specific anyway.

[hiemfire]

I would definitely turn off bloodmoons or kick the time between them up by a couple of weeks.

 

Edit: Just hit me, due to farming being tuned towards being dependent on looting to maintain till you've got LotL maxed and basically requiring good looting luck or regular trader interaction to even get to that point, food will be very iffy in quantity.

Edited March 3, 2023 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

I gotta admit, I'd been tempted to try and make a mod where there were no poi's, no lootable items around, but zombies would have a relatively high chance to drop loot bags (I'd have to test and balance it), those loot bags would be able to contain any item, and it would be meant to be played with a very frequent blood moon (probably every night, or maybe every 2 nights.)

[Old Coot]

 I tried a small mod (modlet?)/Only Crafting challenge put out by a small YT channel (Panhead Gaming) that gave you only the materials to build a forge.  You could sell items you looted, but you could not use them yourself.  Everything you could craft in the game, if you wanted or needed it you had to craft.  That meant everything from food, water, weapons, ammo etc.  It was a very interesting experience!  I believe the modlet is still available.

[Roland]

56 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

I gotta admit, I'd been tempted to try and make a mod where there were no poi's, no lootable items around, but zombies would have a relatively high chance to drop loot bags (I'd have to test and balance it), those loot bags would be able to contain any item, and it would be meant to be played with a very frequent blood moon (probably every night, or maybe every 2 nights.)

 

Its the Super Shooter Looter!

Edited March 3, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Its the Super Shooter Looter!

Actually, for me it would be all about building, since that's what I mostly like doing.  I often consider turning off zombies outside of horde night, because I just don't find them particularly interesting.

[Roland]

Just now, Vaeliorin said:

Actually, for me it would be all about building, since that's what I mostly like doing.  I often consider turning off zombies outside of horde night, because I just don't find them particularly interesting.

 

I was simply going off of your desire to increase the zombie loot bags and expand their loot tables to everything.

[Vaeliorin]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

I was simply going off of your desire to increase the zombie loot bags and expand their loot tables to everything.

Ah.  It was just because that would be the only way to get anything (no pois, nothing lootables, no traders) so you'd need a higher drop rate (I'd think) to be able to get things like mechanical/electric parts, and other things that aren't craftable.

[Maharin]

I tried several games with no POIs just to see how far I can get without loot and creating everything I need.  The biggest issue is that without POIs things like metal pipes are incredibly hard to get so you can't make a forge.  Because you can't make a forge you can't make a pot which means most of the cooking stuff is out of reach.  Yeah, it gets ugly.  Only solution I could find in a POI-less world is to add recipes for pipes and pots from scrap metal.  There will be other things in the later stages of the game that will also need to be adjusted unless you're fine not having steel anything, for instance.

[edyonline]

Challenge accepted. 

 

I’d probabaly have to spend points on the medic talent, which ever one that is, for bandages, after a trip to the desert. But then I’d max out brawler, would be my preference. Although I’m liking how OP sledge is. Stone sledge is actually the best IMO. Don’t really use the iron sledge, but I’ll pull out the steel sledge for the big momma zombies with high health/armour. Stone sledge is OP with its fast swing speed, and high head pop/AOE stun ability. So could get quite far in this challenge, IMO as it’s just stone grass and wood.

 

For brawler I prefer the iron ones. I just like the way it sounds, but I don’t think you could harvest iron bars in this challenge?

 

I might do a 7 day run and see how it goes.

 

edit* started, now I think about it strength tree makes most sense. It needs up your harvesting/tools, and has cooking recipes. Then when I’ll have to sink 4 points into intellect for the bandages… don’t know if it’s worth it when food can heal pretty good.

 

I nearly looted a bird nest on start quests lol. Hard to break the habit. Instead I chopped it up and got the feather that way.

 

Gonna see the trader for the XP and to get rid of the annoying quest marker. Then it’s all survival from there. 
 

I’ll record horde day and post it here when I’m done.

Edited March 5, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[edyonline]

What’s the verdict on zombie loot bags. I’m clearing the hospital for an easy XP boost and had 3 drop so far.

 

also the only way I can get a pot is if I pick one up. Does that count as looting? Or can I chop it with an axe and still get it…

 

edit* I decided against loot bags, as you have to open and loot.

 

But since I spent a point in cooking and everything needs a cooking pot, then picking one up is ok lol. It’s handy for the red teas. But from memory the boiled meat will consume my one and only glass jar?

 

Made it to day two. Cleared the hospital before nightfall. Found a pot and now I’m living off burnt meat an boiled water lol.

 

Never done cooking before. Is it worth going higher? One jar means I’m pretty limited… might have to do a test.

Edited March 6, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:47 PM, Roland said:

 

I was simply going off of your desire to increase the zombie loot bags and expand their loot tables to everything.

 

To be fair, the zombie bag loot tables are kind of.. garbage. Not even red bags are really worth opening most of the time.

[edyonline]

Day 3. I wasted a skill point on the forge build talent. As you need 3 duct tapes. But we only have one jar.

 

also I feel like the cooking skill is a waste too, as red tea only gives 4 more water than boiled water. Unless the efficient digestion buff is worth it?  
 

Day 5. I’ve killed everything in Diersville. Hospital and all buildings by day 2. Nearly killed everything in grasslands except the big pig. So I attempted a tier 5 in burntlands but got scared by a Dire wolf and zombie dog combo. Ran back to grasslands lol. Killed 2 bears. 
 

Day 4 started a screamer farm as there’s no zombies for XP, and not much else to do without looting, or a forge/wrench.

 

Haven’t died yet. After the horde night, my plan is to head out to the radioactive wasteland and go down swinging. 

 

I’ll record the horde night and wasteland run. Should be epic

Edited March 6, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

To be fair, the zombie bag loot tables are kind of.. garbage. Not even red bags are really worth opening most of the time.

 

To be fair about what? He said he would like to expand the loot tables for zombie bags and I joked that instead of the game being called a "looter shooter" it could, in that case, be called a Super Shooter Looter. Super because the zombie loot bags would now have anything and everything show up in them and Shooter Looter because you would be shooting zombies to get your loot.

 

I guess my joke was too subtle because he didn't get my comment and you somehow thought I was defending loot bags I guess?

 

Since the subject is now brought up.... I think loot bags should mostly be garbage because if they are too good then it incentivizes farming zombies for loot like the game used to be like and which, in my opinion, was a positive change when they got rid of looting bodies. Its bad enough that you get xp rewards for killing zombies. Awesome loot would just increase the problem. In my opinion, xp should be gained based on time survived and be disconnected from killing individual zombies. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Fox]

I haven't played in over a year, but if you can't loot, then doesn't that take away most farming related foods and books / blueprints? And without looting, getting feathers would be really not worth the risks at all. Good luck with blood moon with no ranged weapons.

 

I'd say that's completely game breaking.

 

If you want a fun challenge, try making it to endgame without ever using any gunpowder related things including turrets that use bullets, explosives, etc.

or

Reach endgame without ever using wood planks for anything. No more cutting trees, you have to burn chairs and looted junk (not scraped to wood) to cook stuff and build with other materials instead of wood. Buy or use workbench / chem station at trade stations. Though I'm not sure if this one is possible as I haven't tried it.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Roland]

Reinstall and do it Fox!!

[RipClaw]

2 hours ago, Fox said:

I haven't played in over a year, but if you can't loot, then doesn't that take away most farming related foods and books / blueprints?

No, in A20 you can unlock all recipes via Master Chef and all seeds via Living of the Land.

 

2 hours ago, Fox said:

And without looting, getting feathers would be really not worth the risks at all.

Chickens also give feathers and you get sometimes feathers when you destroy nests.

 

2 hours ago, Fox said:

Good luck with blood moon with no ranged weapons.

Ranged weapons are not a problem. You can build a pipe machine gun.

 

The real problem are mechanical parts. I know of no source that gives you mechanical parts when using the stone axe. You need a wrench but to build it you need mechanical parts.

 

[Fox]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

Reinstall and do it Fox!!

Nah. I'm currently busy playing Minecraft "MC Eternal" FTB modpack which is ridiculously huge (takes several minutes to load up) and should keep me busy for a while.

 

I'll likely play this game again when the next update comes out... if it ever comes out.

[Old Crow]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

 

To be fair about what? He said he would like to expand the loot tables for zombie bags and I joked that instead of the game being called a "looter shooter" it could, in that case, be called a Super Shooter Looter. Super because the zombie loot bags would now have anything and everything show up in them and Shooter Looter because you would be shooting zombies to get your loot.

 

I guess my joke was too subtle because he didn't get my comment and you somehow thought I was defending loot bags I guess?

 

Since the subject is now brought up.... I think loot bags should mostly be garbage because if they are too good then it incentivizes farming zombies for loot like the game used to be like and which, in my opinion, was a positive change when they got rid of looting bodies. Its bad enough that you get xp rewards for killing zombies. Awesome loot would just increase the problem. In my opinion, xp should be gained based on time survived and be disconnected from killing individual zombies. 

 

Why have them drop loot bags at all then? And I'm going to disagree (big surprise, right?) on saying zombies shouldn't give experience at all. That's just an awful take. I would not, however, be opposed to a setting to turn zombie experience gain on and off though.

[edyonline]

Challenge complete. 

 

My Crucifix Raider base took the most damage its ever taken. A whole 2% lol. Mostly because I was slowed too much from my injuries and couldnt patch up, as I forgot to get some alovera. So pulled out the bow for a bit. 

 

Found a way to get a forge. Find two jars of honey. Drink em, then you have enough jars to make the glue. Then smelt sand and glass to make as many jars as you want. 

 

I got all excited and put a point into shotgun, only to realise there's no way to make a crafting table for bullets. The blunderbuss would have been handy.