Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

47 minutes ago, Rince said:

Do you have points in daring adventurer or lucky looter?

 

Because I keep reading of people getting lots of good stuff from the traders and I only got, like 3 good rewards in all my 60 days of gameplay. A T6 machete (which I don't use), a T4 lever action rifle (replaced by a T5 crafted and soon to be replaced by a crafted sniper rifle) and a T4 tactical rifle (I only need a few more magazines to craft a T5 anyways).

 

And I wonder, why so much diference? The RNG is that wild? Daring adventurer (I have 1 point) and lucky looter make a big difference?

 

It is possible that much of that imbalance is because of DA.

 

This is only my observation but in our group we have a player investing heavily in lucky looter, which resulted in no measurable difference at all. And two people with 1 and 3 points in DA and even with only 1 point there were (affordable) iron and steel level items available. Either they should not be easily affordable or they should not be offered at all at that quality, even with DA investment. 

 

Oh, and I agree with Saltychipmunk that trader rewards are just as problematic or more.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[saltychipmunk]

2 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It is possible that much of that imbalance is because of DA.

 

This is only my observation but in our group we have a player investing heavily in lucky looter, which resulted in no measurable difference at all. And two people with 1 and 3 points in DA and even with only 1 point there were (affordable) iron and steel level items available. Either they should not be easily affordable or they should not be offered at all at that quality, even with DA investment. 

 

nope , never take those perks , they arent needed the progression is already too fast as is

Edited July 5, 2023 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, saltychipmunk said:

nope , never take those perks , they arent needed the progression is already too fast as is

 

Sure, but even if the quest rewards were fixed to not include OP weapons you would still get too much money out of them and could buy all the stuff the trader offers you with DA perked even minimally.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[saltychipmunk]

33 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure, but even if the quest rewards were fixed to not include OP weapons you would still get too much money out of them and could buy all the stuff the trader offers you with DA perked even minimally.

 

True, but atleast that way  the player is making an actual skill investment  to do so which I feel is less of an issue.  It is a big issue if a player can skip progression without even doing that kind of investment. 

Something tells me that the teir of quests offered by the trader should also be tied to game stage first over just being a simple quota of quests done that way a team of three cant just do 30 quests in 5 days and be at tier 3 quests  before the first 7d horde. 

Either way, its too fast. like and order of magnitude too fast. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[sillls]

Looking forward to seeing what they plan to do with the Heli pads. 

Been hearing about them being used as fast travel but I have been to several and haven't seen anything yet. 

[meilodasreh]

fast travel is not a thing right now, but will obviously be implemented eventually.

It seems rather obvious to me how it will work.

I strongly assume you will be able to call in a heli via interacting with the radio equipment tables which are positioned next to the pads,

and then you are - maybe at the cost of some amount of dukes - teleported to a desired location which can be chosen in the "radio menu" (probably just to other traders)

Maybe there's some "incoming heli animation" and then you're just teleported.

During one of the dev streams Rick even said the word "teleport" instead of "helipad", and for me it's obvious that this wasn't a blooper that he mixed up the similar words.

It will "heli-teleport" you around, maybe already in a coming alpha.

Just a guess though of course. Things still change a lot and fast in this game.

Edited July 5, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[spacepiggio]

Haven't looked at the crash report yet, windows 11 high end laptop blue screen caused by EAC while playing the game, anyone else?

Memory leak came to mind until I read it was EAC program...back to the game & playing stable build & if it happens again then back to Far Cry 6 until you fix it...

[spacepiggio]

14 minutes ago, spacepiggio said:

Haven't looked at the crash report yet, windows 11 high end laptop blue screen caused by EAC while playing the game, anyone else?

Memory leak came to mind until I read it was EAC program...back to the game & playing stable build & if it happens again then back to Far Cry 6 until you fix it...

Recent activity

July 5, 2023 - Wednesday

Blue Screen Error - July 5, 2023 11:12:01 AM

Bug check code

0x0000001E

Bug check parameters

0xffffffffc0000005,

0xfffff807e9f4bf3b,

0x0000000000000000,

0xffffffffffffffff

Just now, spacepiggio said:

Recent activity

July 5, 2023 - Wednesday

Blue Screen Error - July 5, 2023 11:12:01 AM

Bug check code

0x0000001E

Bug check parameters

0xffffffffc0000005,

0xfffff807e9f4bf3b,

0x0000000000000000,

0xffffffffffffffff

It said EAC as cause on reboot

[mstdv inc]

12 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I would guess that was staged.

Maybe he got a few hits on the zombie with the axe before (or with any other bladed weapon),

and then timed it to made it look like it was the tree falling on him, but he just bled out.

No. I can provide you with a complete video recording. I'm just chopping down trees, and at some point it happens. After I tried to repeat it on another zombie and it didn't die.

[Kalex]

Question about the Intellect perk Charismatic Nature: Am I correct that the buffs do not affect the player who has the perks but only allies and friends thus making the perk absolutely useless in a single player game?

[meilodasreh]

@mstdv incsorry I didn't even realize this was your own vid. I thought you found that on youtube and wanted to know if that really can happen.

 

Well funny thing it did happen.

I know that falling trees do a little bit of damage (since A20?), not sure though.

Maybe the zombie that died had very low HP already (maybe was fighting a wolf before or so)

 

And then it was just a hilarious incident that you were filming yourself chopping trees at that moment.

[NekoPawtato]

32 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

No. I can provide you with a complete video recording. I'm just chopping down trees, and at some point it happens. After I tried to repeat it on another zombie and it didn't die.

I know biome spawned zombies have a timer and will automatically die after some time on their own. If you still have logs you can check. Usually it will say zombie xyz killed by player abc, but I found if they died from timer it won't say what killed them.

[HB_H4wk]

Is there any way to add exceptions to the chunk reset for a server, for areas such as a Public Horde base or a Mine?

*for some reason the trader protect also was removed, not sure if that was a Bot issue or not.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by HB_H4wk (see edit history)

[retrogamingdev]

Do we have any idea if the helicopter pads in new trader locations have an intended usage in future versions? Having an unlockable (or purchasable) ticket to ride from trader to trader would be kind of neat (i.e. fast travel). 

[Riamus]

33 minutes ago, HB_H4wk said:

Is there any way to add exceptions to the chunk reset for a server, for areas such as a Public Horde base or a Mine?

*for some reason the trader protect also was removed, not sure if that was a Bot issue or not.

 

The chunk will not reset if there is a land claim there or a bedroll or a vehicle and the reset timer will restart whenever a player enters the area.  So bases should be safe.  Mines may not be unless you put something next to them or go there at least once within whatever the reset timer is set to (eg. 15 days).

16 minutes ago, retrogamingdev said:

Do we have any idea if the helicopter pads in new trader locations have an intended usage in future versions? Having an unlockable (or purchasable) ticket to ride from trader to trader would be kind of neat (i.e. fast travel). 

It sounds like they'll be fast travel from the dev streams but this is not available for A21.  Maybe in A22 but no guarantees.

[retrogamingdev]

6 minutes ago, Riamus said:

It sounds like they'll be fast travel from the dev streams but this is not available for A21.  Maybe in A22 but no guarantees.

 

Ooh, that would be cool - I hope it happens. And in real time, like you can ride in the helicopter and survey the land from the air. 

[Riamus]

7 minutes ago, retrogamingdev said:

 

Ooh, that would be cool - I hope it happens. And in real time, like you can ride in the helicopter and survey the land from the air. 

Well, when they commented on it (seemingly accidentally), they said teleport, so I doubt you'll get an in-flight view.

[Razorpony]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:20 PM, zztong said:

 

I don't know, that sounds a lot like a Buell Blast I once rode.

 

They didn't call them the B Last for nothing.

[Sephiroth87xz]

18 hours ago, RipClaw said:

They have a linear progress but each for itself. The hard part is to keep traders / quests / crafting and loot in sync.

 

For example, if you only level up but don't do any quests and don't have any points in Daring Adventurer, you will see a linear progression in the trader inventory. If you do quests or have points in Daring Adventurer then you accelerate this progression by increasing the Traderstage.

 

Quest rewards are based on quest tier and get better with higher quest tiers. If you do a T5 quest you don't want to get the same reward as for a T3 or T2 quest.

 

The lootstage depends on your level, the biome you are in and the POI tier. In addition, there is a bonus that you get via points in Lucky Looter. If you are in the pine forest then your lootstage is lower than if you are in the desert, in the snow biome or in the Wasteland. Biomes with a higher lootstage also have a higher risk and POIs with a higher level have more zombies and therefore a higher risk. Accordingly, the player expects better loot

 

For example, I'm mostly in the pine forest, I've limited myself to only one quest a day and have no points in Daring Adventurer or Lucky Looter, and I've seen linear progress in quests, trader and loot. And I've often been able to craft even better stuff than I would have been able to find, buy, or get as quest rewards.

 

Not really.

 

I dont have any perk except the weapons one, food and inventory size.

 

And trader inventory isn't linear, instead jump quality level and tier, giving to tier 2-3 quests already steel weapons, spear mostly of quality even 3-4.

 

Same for loot, i have get pistol in the first week and magnum in 2-3 weeks.

 

The situation is really unbalanced and not linear for trader/loot/quests.

 

Must be alot more limited, because get steel weapons or firearms need steel to get created so soon, break totally the progression and difficulty of the game.

 

Magazine progression is alot better, where you get to create steel alot more late.

19 hours ago, saltychipmunk said:

Yeah I noticed this too.  I barely found enough magazines to craft a teir 3 pipe shotgun and the freaken trader just gives me a tier 5 pump shotgun.  and before that a tier 3 double barrel shotgun.

 

Now my only upgrade is the auto shotgun but  ill  probably earn one off of a quest long before i can craft it .. which is just.. crazy...

Its only day 9 in my world

Yes this is the situation.

 

Without magazine or perks, you get from loot high quality or high tier weapons too soon compared to crafting.

 

This totally break the overall progression and difficulty of the game.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[icehot]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Not really.

 

I dont have any perk except the weapons one, food and inventory size.

 

And trader inventory isn't linear, instead jump quality level and tier, giving to tier 2-3 quests already steel weapons, spear mostly of quality even 3-4.

 

Same for loot, i have get pistol in the first week and magnum in 2-3 weeks.

 

The situation is really unbalanced and not linear for trader/loot/quests.

 

Must be alot more limited, because get steel weapons or firearms need steel to get created so soon, break totally the progression and difficulty of the game.

 

Magazine progression is alot better, where you get to create steel alot more late.

Yes this is the situation.

 

Without magazine or perks, you get from loot high quality or high tier weapons too soon compared to crafting.

 

This totally break the overall progression and difficulty of the game.

 

I don't think this is that far unbalanced (maybe a little), like maybe you could spend a bit longer in each tier perhaps to drag the game out a bit longer...  But firstly I'd expect a trader to have better stuff than I can make myself, other people are selling to him and has other suppliers - if you can just make it all, why bother questing or using your dukes for anything?  Imho you want them to be ahead of the curve.

 

Secondly, after 2 or 3 weeks, I think most players would expect to have some decent weapons by that amount of time - that's like 20 to 30 hours of gameplay, how long do you want it to last before you start getting decent stuff?

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, icehot said:

 

I don't think this is that far unbalanced (maybe a little), like maybe you could spend a bit longer in each tier perhaps to drag the game out a bit longer...  But firstly I'd expect a trader to have better stuff than I can make myself, other people are selling to him and has other suppliers - if you can just make it all, why bother questing or using your dukes for anything?  Imho you want them to be ahead of the curve.

 

Secondly, after 2 or 3 weeks, I think most players would expect to have some decent weapons by that amount of time - that's like 20 to 30 hours of gameplay, how long do you want it to last before you start getting decent stuff?

 

Realism ("other people selling to him") is a useless argument for this game if we talk about balancing. Secondly 2 to 3 weeks is less than 20 to 30 hours except with a longer day setting but he said he plays default. Now a magnum isn't endgame gun either, but steel melee weapons are and the pimps seem to target a longer playtime than say 4 weeks. My multiplayer group is at day 12 and already has an assortment of tier3 weapons and armor. Reaching quest tier3 with a group of players is a matter of a few days, giving out end-game equipment with such quests is a recipe for making the looting itself and crafting irrelevant.

 

I agree that the trader should have stuff to buy, but that either has to be in the same random range like the stuff you find or craft. OR the amount of dukes (which you mainly get from quests) has to be reduced so you can't simply buy anything valuable that the trader shows.

The quest reward of dukes needs to be one of the random choices, not on top of it, and needs to be reduced. Or maybe it could be removed completely and you only make money by selling the most expensive quest reward!

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[icehot]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Realism ("other people selling to him") is a useless argument for this game if we talk about balancing. Secondly 2 to 3 weeks is less than 20 to 30 hours except with a longer day setting but he said he plays default. Now a magnum isn't endgame gun either, but steel melee weapons are and the pimps seem to target a longer playtime than say 4 weeks. My multiplayer group is at day 12 and already has an assortment of tier3 weapons and armor. Reaching quest tier3 with a group of players is a matter of a few days, giving out end-game equipment with such quests is a recipe for making the looting itself and crafting irrelevant.

 

I agree that the trader should have stuff to buy, but that either has to be in the same random range like the stuff you find or craft. OR the amount of dukes (which you mainly get from quests) has to be reduced so you can't simply buy anything valuable that the trader shows.

The quest reward of dukes needs to be one of the random choices, not on top of it, and needs to be reduced. Or maybe it could be removed completely and you only make money by selling the most expensive quest reward!

 

 

 

 

Realism is part of the simulation of it though, we're "pretending" he's got his stock from somewhere, and not just magic, yes technically he didn't but still, in the story side of it, it makes some sort of sense.   Ok I did think this when typing out the timing bit, but 3 weeks is 21 hours, I'd hope I'm not on stone tools after that amount of time lol... I still think if crafting is ahead of trading/questing, then no one will bother to buy things, cos it's cheaper to make them - so you want some incentive to quest and/or buy things, so imho you do want them to offer better things than you can make yourself.  Otherwise what you'll probably see is people just going for the end loot again, and just looting mailboxes constantly to speed up their crafting, and never bother with the trading/questing side of things.

 

Now I do agree it's a bit too fast, though with single player, I'm on day 15 right now since it went out of experimental, and I would say I have mid tier stuff, pump shotgun (which I bought for 10,000 dukes after using better barter, daring adventurer, sugar buts, and awesome sauce - so i had to invest to get that) and an orange AK-47.  I'm on tier 4 quests right now.  So yeah might be an issue with multiplayer, but single player seems ok, but like I said, I do think you go through the quest tiers a little quickly.

 

I'm  also now starting to see radiated in the quests, so I kind of need those items now too.

Edited July 6, 2023 by icehot (see edit history)

[saltychipmunk]

There is realism and there is internal realism. no one here is asking for true realism. But the game does need to do a better job making sure all of its forms of progression are internally consistent with one another.

 

And right now they are not and it is breaking the experience. I should not have tier 4 steel tools before I can craft teir 5 iron ones. I should not be offered a tier 5 pump shot gun as a reward before I can craft quality 3 pipe shotguns.

 

The devs have spent all of this time making sure everything is tied to game stage. 
The loot we find: game stage
The zombies we fight: game stage
The loot vendors sell: game stage

 

But for some reason the quest tiers we can do is not blocked by game stage. And worse still the rewards we get from completing a tier  of quests are  all effectively progression skips.

 

Like think about how ridiculous it is that we can just get a bike for running 10 tier 1 quests. It effectively invalidates needing to invest any perk points or crafting magazines into vehicles.  why even have the first tier of vehicle?

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, icehot said:

 

Realism is part of the simulation of it though, we're "pretending" he's got his stock from somewhere, and not just magic, yes technically he didn't but still, in the story side of it, it makes some sort of sense.   Ok I did think this when typing out the timing bit, but 3 weeks is 21 hours, I'd hope I'm not on stone tools after that amount of time lol... I still think if crafting is ahead of trading/questing, then no one will bother to buy things, cos it's cheaper to make them - so you want some incentive to quest and/or buy things, so imho you do want them to offer better things than you can make yourself.  Otherwise what you'll probably see is people just going for the end loot again, and just looting mailboxes constantly to speed up their crafting, and never bother with the trading/questing side of things.

 

Now I do agree it's a bit too fast, though with single player, I'm on day 15 right now since it went out of experimental, and I would say I have mid tier stuff, pump shotgun (which I bought for 10,000 dukes after using better barter, daring adventurer, sugar buts, and awesome sauce - so i had to invest to get that) and an orange AK-47.  I'm on tier 4 quests right now.  So yeah might be an issue with multiplayer, but single player seems ok, but like I said, I do think you go through the quest tiers a little quickly.

 

I'm  also now starting to see radiated in the quests, so I kind of need those items now too.

 

Crafting being on equal footing would not mean a guaranteed level of magazines read, it would just define the average case. It is still random whether any of the weapons you want is ahead or behind the average.

 

I agree that crafting just like looting is a relatively cheap method of getting stuff. On the other hand, if you get mountains of dukes then buying is cheap as well (cheap in the sense of not being a difficult decision). And quest rewards are as cheap as looting but multiple times better as you can choose between a few rewards and one of those will almost always be useful.

 

Day 15 is certainly a day when the player should have AK or double barrel shotgun and the occasional tier2 item like a pump shotgun, but I would guess you got all or nearly all of the good stuff from the trader and this "single source" of good stuff looks like a problem to me because it devalues crafting and looting.

Many players especially in MP seem to have a lot of better stuff at that time though and the problem is all that advanced stuff comes from trader and rewards. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[icehot]

16 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Crafting being on equal footing would not mean a guaranteed level of magazines read, it would just define the average case. It is still random whether any of the weapons you want is ahead or behind the average.

 

I agree that crafting just like looting is a relatively cheap method of getting stuff. On the other hand, if you get mountains of dukes then buying is cheap as well (cheap in the sense of not being a difficult decision).

 

Day 15 is certainly a day when the player should have AK or double barrel shotgun and the occasional tier2 item like a pump shotgun, but I would guess you got all or nearly all of the good stuff from the trader and this "single source" of good stuff looks like a problem to me because it devalues crafting and looting.

Many players especially in MP seem to have a lot of better stuff at that time though and the problem is all that advanced stuff comes from trader and rewards. 

 

Agreed on the average thing, it doesn't negate the point that traders should be able to sell you better things than you can build yourself, and questing like in all other types of questing games should offer you something you actually want and not just junk - look at all the discussions for b317, when everyone was complaining all the rewards were a load of crap.

 

There's also plenty I'm buying like food, liquids, ammo, cobble/concrete etc, so I can't just focus on saving every penny for the best weapon he offers - it took me several days of questing to save up what was needed to buy that pump shotgun - yes that one was from the trader.   The AK I looted.  Also something to consider here, is that I'm currently playing the intellect tree - they don't even have a gun you can spec into - so in that playthrough I'm entirely reliant on the traders/questing/looting to get anything good at all.

 

During experimental I got to day 40 or so I think with b313 - and I was buying stuff and crafting stuff.  In single player it does seem ok, not perfect, but not far off either, like some people are saying it's a major issue.  I think it's more of a tweak than anything major, at least for single player.  I have no idea how you could stop people teaming up in MP, and just churning out 20 quests per day, that's no wonder the traders are showing them good stuff early on in that case.

 

Doing tier 4 quests with rads coming in now, I also do need some decent weapons - and don't say the double barrel is decent, most people skip that if they can cos it'll likely get you killed when there's a lot of zombies.  Infact looking at it like this, perhaps it's the crafting side not keeping up with the rest of the game, cos I certainly feel with the enemies I'm getting that the equipment I've got to deal with them is about right.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by icehot (see edit history)