Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[métaphore]

33 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

It's a little strange to read about the lack of cloth.
The first levels of the trader's quests are mostly ordinary houses with curtains and beds. If there are small military bases nearby, then you can collect a whole stack from a couple of tents.
Maybe I'm used to playing like this, but in the first week, while I'm doing the initial tasks, I accumulate at least two stacks of fabric.
Perhaps you should pay attention to curtains, beds and tents.

Maybe you didn't read the part where I'm also writting that I'm playing with all Traders removed from the World.

Anyway, trader or not, one of my first task, day 1, is to collect five glue in order to craft a full set of padded armor (glue is dropping now, from garbage much more frequently than Duct Tape). Like you, Cloth wasn't ever an issue, until now, for crafting crude bandages, duct tape and early armor on day one.

 

Now, as it takes 10 times as many pieces of cloth to do the exact same thing, one can easily understand that it's changing the early routine quite a bit... in fact, I usually can't collect those many piece needed as, even if I have all the glue to craft my armor, forge and workbench as early as the end of day one, I won't have them all before day 4 to 5.

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, métaphore said:

Maybe you didn't read the part where I'm also writting that I'm playing with all Traders removed from the World.

Anyway, trader or not, one of my first task, day 1, is to collect five glue in order to craft a full set of padded armor (glue is dropping now, from garbage much more frequently than Duct Tape). Like you, Cloth wasn't ever an issue, until now, for crafting crude bandages, duct tape and early armor on day one.

 

Now, as it takes 10 times as many pieces of cloth to do the exact same thing, one can easily understand that it's changing the early routine quite a bit... in fact, I usually can't collect those many piece needed as, even if I have all the glue to craft my armor, forge and workbench as early as the end of day one, I won't have them all before day 4 to 5.

What prevents you from collecting fabric from curtains, beds and tents? This can be done without the participation of a trader.
There is enough fabric in the game, but for some reason you don't want to collect it.

The original game does not involve survival without a trader and does not force you to do anything until the end of the first day. You are not playing the game the way the developers intended, so the balance is broken for you.

You should contact the modders to make the changes you need in the form of a modification.

Edited July 24, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[métaphore]

25 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

What prevents you from collecting fabric from curtains, beds and tents? This can be done without the participation of a trader.
There is enough fabric in the game, but for some reason you don't want to collect it.

The original game does not involve survival without a trader and does not force you to do anything until the end of the first day. You are not playing the game the way the developers intended, so the balance is broken for you.

You should contact the modders to make the changes you need in the form of a modification.

Come on dude, go back to my initial post, then take a big oxygen breath instead of brainfarting all over the place

 

If you read me well, I was only pointing to Riamus the fact that the early game feels quite different in A21.1 compared to A21.0. And pointed it's due to loot tables and recipes changes, while Riamus said that he was skiping this update because he couldn't see some bug fixed and didn't find any reason for an update.

 

I'm not asking for any "fix" (or whatever). I'm simply pointing to him that it takes now 300 pieces of clothes for crafting a full set of Q1 padded armor (instead of 30), which, considering the difficulty settings I'm used to, is one of the mandatory thing I'll do every single time I'm restarting the game (permadeath, you know?).

 

And beside from crafting armor, before night time, I'll have to find the City, its commercial neighbourhood, a Crack a Book store, a safe place for the night, a cooking pot, several chickens for feathers and meat, stones and wood for arrows, murky water for not dying immediately of thirst, etc. (as I can't buy anything from those non-existant traders in my world)... while also avoiding being killed by any loose dog or City feral zombie and, by the way, any regular one as they are all running during day time, hitting hard and taking a lot of hit to go down...

 

When first day is 7.00 to 22.00 and each game hour is 2.5 minutes of real time, I've got exactly 37.5 minutes to complete that... while having currently to gather 300+ pieces of cloth. So yes, I'll have to adapt and certainly change my routine. Won't you agree?

 

[Laz Man]

2 minutes ago, métaphore said:

Come on dude, go back to my initial post, then take a big oxygen breath instead of brainfarting all over the place

 

If you read me well, I was only pointing to Riamus the fact that the early game feels quite different in A21.1 compared to A21.0. And pointed it's due to loot tables and recipes changes, while Riamus said that he was skiping this update because he couldn't see some bug fixed and didn't find any reason for an update.

 

I'm not asking for any "fix" (or whatever). I'm simply pointing to him that it takes now 300 pieces of clothes for crafting a full set of Q1 padded armor (instead of 30), which, considering the difficulty settings I'm used to, is one of the mandatory thing I'll do every single time I'm restarting the game (permadeath, you know?).

 

And beside from crafting armor, before night time, I'll have to find the City, its commercial neighbourhood, a Crack a Book store, a safe place for the night, a cooking pot, several chickens for feathers and meat, stones and wood for arrows, murky water for not dying immediately of thirst, etc. (as I can't buy anything from those non-existant traders in my world)... while also avoiding being killed by any loose dog or City feral zombie and, by the way, any regular one as they are all running during day time, hitting hard and taking a lot of hit to go down...

 

When first day is 7.00 to 22.00 and each game hour is 2.5 minutes of real time, I've got exactly 37.5 minutes to complete that... while having currently to gather 300+ pieces of cloth. So yes, I'll have to adapt and certainly change my routine. Won't you agree?

 

 

Thanks for sharing the details of your no trader playthrough in regards to the cloth change.  Its a fun challenge to attempt and curious to hear how folks are adapting to it. 

[mstdv inc]

4 hours ago, métaphore said:

More Glue is dropping now but the new bottleneck is obviously to find enough piece of cloth

Did you write that?
There are no problems with finding fabric in the game. I showed you places where you can find fabric even on the first day, although the game does not set any conditions for you.
No bottlenecks. You can find enough fabric. 

[métaphore]

56 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

Did you write that?
There are no problems with finding fabric in the game. I showed you places where you can find fabric even on the first day, although the game does not set any conditions for you.
No bottlenecks. You can find enough fabric. 

Then, thank you for sharing

 

But, you know, there was also this very large Savage Country POI right next to the Crack a Book POI that I've found. Guess what, did I go for the thousands of cloth rather than looting dozens of books?

 

My point is that, with the previous build, I would have had enough fabric at the end of this Crack a Book looting in order to make everything I needed without bothering to go next door for scavenging more clothes. With A21.1, I couldn't even craft more than a single spare bandage and a single Duct Tape with all the fabric I get from this Crack a Book POI. Hence, very very far from 300+ pieces I needed.

 

Hence, in my humble opinion, this is an update worth trying.

 

But, now, if you ask me if I really liked all this extra banging (taking several minutes) for each couch scavenged (those with several parts and high hp) with my Q1 stone axe, only to get a few extra pieces of cloth for it? ... well not really. In fact, I went out the next day and gathered coton instead, which is way faster, and one can also get a chicken spawn as a bonus.

 

What about the bottleneck for crafting? The previous version had one with murky water because it would be obvious that the priority use for water was for drinking or cooking but not for making tons of glue out of bones. Now, there is another one with fabric because, like iron, stone, wood or any other ressources which are practically in infinite number in the world, it simply takes a lot of time and (very boring) effort to collect it in the large quantity needed.

 

Hence, you'll end up being short of them (grind) when crafting.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by métaphore (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

47 minutes ago, métaphore said:

Then, thank you for sharing

 

But, you know, there was also this very large Savage Country POI right next to the Crack a Book POI that I've found. Guess what, did I go for the thousands of cloth rather than looting dozens of books?

 

My point is that, with the previous build, I would have had enough fabric at the end of this Crack a Book looting in order to make everything I needed without bothering to go next door for scavenging more clothes. With A21.1, I couldn't even craft more than a single spare bandage and a single Duct Tape with all the fabric I get from this Crack a Book POI. Hence, very very far from 300+ pieces I needed.

 

Hence, in my humble opinion, this is an update worth trying.

 

But, now, if you ask me if I really liked all this extra banging (taking several minutes) for each couch scavenged (those with several parts and high hp) with my Q1 stone axe, only to get a few extra pieces of cloth for it? ... well not really. In fact, I went out the next day and gathered coton instead, which is way faster, and one can also get a chicken spawn as a bonus.

 

What about the bottleneck for crafting? The previous version had one with murky water because it would be obvious that the priority use of water was for drinking or cooking but not for making tons of glue out of bones. Now, there is another one with fabric because, like iron, stone, wood or any other ressources which are practically in infinite number in the world, it simply takes a lot of time and (very boring) effort to collect it in the large quantity needed.

 

Hence, you'll end up being short of them (grind) when crafting.

 

Don't you think that the 300+ pieces of fabric you need by the end of the day is a problem of your settings?

Do you know that you can quickly collect fabric from curtains with a knife?

I still don't see any problems with the fabric. I see that you are playing with settings that are causing you problems. And instead of changing the settings, do you propose to consider a problem that does not exist?

[métaphore]

1 minute ago, mstdv inc said:

Don't you think that the 300+ pieces of fabric you need by the end of the day is a problem of your settings?

Do you know that you can quickly collect fabric from curtains with a knife?

I still don't see any problems with the fabric. I see that you are playing with settings that are causing you problems. And instead of changing the settings, do you propose to consider a problem that does not exist?

Ok.

I think that's my final word with you: I'm not complaining of "anything wrong", I'm just stating the difference of gameplay between the previous build and the current one for someone who (maybe) missed it.

 

I wish you a very good sunny day

[archergod]

Where is Dev Diary for A22, we already see Tweets about it.. time to get new thread no? 
 

btw A21 is killer.. I try infestation tier 6 (shotgun factory) .. I got confuse on path to explore building.. it was clear before but now I reach 2-3 times places where I cannot figureout the path and end up digging walls and stuff get myself kill in process as I open wrong door too soon. 

[Sephiroth87xz]

On 7/19/2023 at 9:29 PM, Riamus said:

You are making assumptions again.  I put points into weapon perks and magazines do not keep up with my game stage.  I'm not sure why that is so hard to grasp.  Crafting only work for some people who play a specific way or in a specific sized group.  Crafting does not keep up for everyone.  If it works for you, that is lucky for you.  It doesn't for many others.

You are confusing players behaviour, with damage of weapons and health/damage of zombies.

 

Damage of weapons and healh/damage of zombie is the same for everyone.

 

Crafting/magazine have the same progression for everyone if people invest perks in weapons they want.

 

If they respec or stay inside house too much is normal to stay behind the gamestace.

 

A player simple explore PoI or doing quests can't stay behind with damage progression compared to gamestage.

 

Is not a matter of luck, is simple playing the game like is created, exploring the world in way or another.

 

Magazine system isn't a problem, because not trivialize the game.

 

Instead traders/quest rewards trivialize the game even at max difficulty.

[Jost Amman]

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Thanks for sharing the details of your no trader playthrough in regards to the cloth change.  Its a fun challenge to attempt and curious to hear how folks are adapting to it. 

Translation: "We appreciate you trying to play the game in alternative ways, but we don't support balancing for extreme gameplay options." - 

 

2 hours ago, métaphore said:

I wish you a very good sunny day

And what if I like rain? 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Riamus]

I'm not really concerned about cloth, nor would I consider it any incentive to try the alpha of A21.1 rather than wait for stable.  In the end, such a change is just another hit against crafting.  They raised duct tape and now cloth in recipes, making crafting even less desirable.  It seemed like a good change having the magazines as I found myself wanting to craft, unlike in A20.  However, once I realized the changes to the recipes, it was no longer of any interest to me.  I'm actually crafting even less in A21 now than in A20 because even things I used to craft just aren't worth crafting anymore.  I really don't see why they think that making people want to craft by adding magazines (which worked at least to a point) would go well with changing recipes to be more of a grind and hassle.  In the end, I think they'll have even fewer people who want to craft than before.  Just a guess based on my own views, though.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[archergod]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

I'm not really concerned about cloth, nor would I consider it any incentive to try the alpha of A21.1 rather than wait for stable.  In the end, such a change is just another hit against crafting.  They raised duct tape and now cloth in recipes, making crafting even less desirable.  It seemed like a good change having the magazines as I found myself wanting to craft, unlike in A20.  However, once I realized the changes to the recipes, it was no longer of any interest to me.  I'm actually crafting even less in A21 now than in A20 because even things I used to craft just aren't worth crafting anymore.  I really don't see why they think that making people want to craft by adding magazines (which worked at least to a point) would go well with changing recipes to be more of a grind and hassle.  In the end, I think they'll have even fewer people who want to craft than before.  Just a guess based on my own views, though.

I agree, I often just wait for finding good item in Tier loot (like 6 quality) than craft my own tools or guns. the only thing I do crafting is concrete mix or gun in long run. rest is all useless to craft.

[Outlaw_187]

Did I read right....we can finally buy gas from the trader??!

 

About F'ing time!! I've been asking for this forever. Not that I'll be buying it, I'm sure it's expensive af...but it just makes sense. 

 

I'm downloading the latest experimental now. Yes I'm late, haven't had a chance to game in like a week...fml. 

 

Anyway can't wait to dive in. Great job Fun Pimps & thanks for everything!!!

Edited July 24, 2023 by Outlaw_187
Stupid word changing text!! (see edit history)

[métaphore]

6 hours ago, Riamus said:

I'm not really concerned about cloth, nor would I consider it any incentive to try the alpha of A21.1 rather than wait for stable.  In the end, such a change is just another hit against crafting.  They raised duct tape and now cloth in recipes, making crafting even less desirable.  It seemed like a good change having the magazines as I found myself wanting to craft, unlike in A20.  However, once I realized the changes to the recipes, it was no longer of any interest to me.  I'm actually crafting even less in A21 now than in A20 because even things I used to craft just aren't worth crafting anymore.  I really don't see why they think that making people want to craft by adding magazines (which worked at least to a point) would go well with changing recipes to be more of a grind and hassle.  In the end, I think they'll have even fewer people who want to craft than before.  Just a guess based on my own views, though.

 

I've got no insider knowledge about that but what they are doing seems pretty obvious to me: step by step, they are making the game closer to be ready to catch as many whales as possible.

 

Following behavourial psychology / looting game design 101, they will catch those big fat ones simply by making some part of the game as grindy as possible while also proposing a very fast line thru the Store:

 

"Weekend Limited Special Offers: get 10.000 Dukes for $9.99 or 150.000 for $99.99; Get your limited edition Full set of Madmole Armor for $19.99; Horde Day in Sight? Do not miss our 50% discount offer for Armor Piercing and Hi Power ammunition boxes".

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by métaphore (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

As much cotton plants are in the world, is obtaining cloth really an issue?

[Exxodous]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:54 AM, Kalex said:

I didn't see it in the patch notes, but I could have overlooked it, did the bug in the stun repulsor mod that made it affect your allies/teammates when hitting a zombie get fixed?

I didn't see it in the patch notes but it must have made it in as I'm not sending the wife flying any more.  She's happy but I kind of miss it lol

[meilodasreh]

I'm not exactly sure, but I could swear I recently got some honey out of a tree stump, despite I didn't read the book that unlocks this.

 

Can anybody confirm that?

 

I don't want to make a bug report before I'm sure, but I just don't want to spend time to further investigate this now.

(still recovering from my recent grass punching duty on the network test server 😄)

 

[Catdaddy]

7 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

I'm not exactly sure, but I could swear I recently got some honey out of a tree stump, despite I didn't read the book that unlocks this.

 

Can anybody confirm that?

 

I don't want to make a bug report before I'm sure, but I just don't want to spend time to further investigate this now.

(still recovering from my recent grass punching duty on the network test server 😄)

 

Stumps produce honey by default. The book unlocks honey from TREES. 

[meilodasreh]

44 minutes ago, Catdaddy said:

Stumps produce honey by default. The book unlocks honey from TREES. 

Wow ok, on the one hand I'm quite happy cause that means I'm not imagining things (...although there's still the voices of course 😁...)

 

But on the other hand...really? Has this stump/tree thing with the books always been the case?

Then I must have been really unlucky all this time before 😕...damn

[BFT2020]

5 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

But on the other hand...really? Has this stump/tree thing with the books always been the case?

Then I must have been really unlucky all this time before 😕...damn

 

Yes, In A20 at least, stumps in the wild had a 20% honey drop chance while POI stumps had 40% chance.  Trees had 0% unless you found the book and then you got a 5% chance.

 

In A21, it has remained the same, except now POI stumps are the same as stumps in the wild (20% chance)

[meilodasreh]

wow from what I have experienced, the chance to get it out of tree stumps is more like 2% then, definitely not 20%.

As I said, I must have been on a very long and very bad streak.

So thx for the info.

...crazy, really. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Riamus]

35 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

wow from what I have experienced, the chance to get it out of tree stumps is more like 2% then, definitely not 20%.

As I said, I must have been on a very long and very bad streak.

So thx for the info.

...crazy, really. 

In another game, you'll get one in every stump for 5 in a row. 

 

Overall, I have gotten around 20% average in all my games, though when I really need it, it seems more like 2%. 

6 hours ago, métaphore said:

 

I've got no insider knowledge about that but what they are doing seems pretty obvious to me: step by step, they are making the game closer to be ready to catch as many whales as possible.

 

Following behavourial psychology / looting game design 101, they will catch those big fat ones simply by making some part of the game as grindy as possible while also proposing a very fast line thru the Store:

 

"Weekend Limited Special Offers: get 10.000 Dukes for $9.99 or 150.000 for $99.99; Get your limited edition Full set of Madmole Armor for $19.99; Horde Day in Sight? Do not miss our 50% discount offer for Armor Piercing and Hi Power ammunition boxes".

 

The devs have commented some on DLC stuff and it doesn't sound like they are interested in that kind of microtransaction model.  Of course, that could change or they could just be acting like they aren't interested.  I expect DLCs to be more along the lines of a clothing/armor mod that gives stuff that is cosmetically different but functions the same, or a POI pack, or something along those lines.  And perhaps an expansion, though I don't have high hopes for that.

[BFT2020]

6 hours ago, métaphore said:

 

I've got no insider knowledge about that but what they are doing seems pretty obvious to me: step by step, they are making the game closer to be ready to catch as many whales as possible.

 

Following behavourial psychology / looting game design 101, they will catch those big fat ones simply by making some part of the game as grindy as possible while also proposing a very fast line thru the Store:

 

"Weekend Limited Special Offers: get 10.000 Dukes for $9.99 or 150.000 for $99.99; Get your limited edition Full set of Madmole Armor for $19.99; Horde Day in Sight? Do not miss our 50% discount offer for Armor Piercing and Hi Power ammunition boxes".

 

 

Sure, a game where you can just enable Creative Menu and give yourself Dukes.....they are going to offer you in-game items for a price.....

 

[Eduho]

Have you noticed a drop in performance or is it my impression? . It gives me drops from being in 60 Fps fixed to 2, 3, fps at once ....

Justo ahora, Eduho dijo:

¿Has notado una caída en el rendimiento o es mi impresión? . Me da caídas de estar en 60 Fps fijo a 2, 3, fps a la vez....

Perdón por la traducción