Please stop trying to tell us how to play

[RipClaw]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

So you want us to be silent when we know that a particular post is a faulty guess at developer motives?  Why would you want false information to continue and gain traction?

No, but you shouldn't assume that the players have the same knowledge base as you moderators.

 

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

 

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

Should we just all agree that LBD was changed suddenly at the 10 year development anniversary since it was an outside view and nobody should be shut down?

For you it was a 10 year development and I am sure that about every week someone in the development team mentioned something about this. But for a player that played A16 just a week before A17 release, it was just a week between LDB and the current progress system. Even longtime players probably never realized that LBD was about to be removed. They just saw it changing.

 

I have experienced similar problems with our customers. When big changes are coming, they will always come as a surprise.

I don't blame them, though, because they probably have better things to do than constantly test their systems for compatibility with the latest software versions or to keep up with all the IT news.

 

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

I think most users are grateful to read insider insights and observations because most users just want the truth.

That's great but it's hard to keep up if you don't read the developer diary every day. You don't look at it for a week and a few hundred posts have been added.

[Viktoriusiii]

7 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

@Rolandbasicially every alpha game has a steam update that explains why something was changed.

For 7d2d the changelog is massive, but loads of it is just new additions. But gameplay changes should be explained. 

More community interaction would be nice... buuuut I am already glad it is not A11-13 bad xD

Where there were no Moderators and players had to run the support channels  ahhh good old times

Edited January 9, 2022 by Viktoriusiii (see edit history)

[Roland]

22 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

No, but you shouldn't assume that the players have the same knowledge base as you moderators.

 

Maybe you should explain to people in more detail what the reasoning behind the changes was and what kind of consideration process preceded it.

Well I do explain it over and over again. I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 
 

When I explain early access and alpha and why changes are made, these people don’t thank me for the insider communication. They declare that I’m trying to shut down their opinion. 
 

So if my tone seems like I’m not taking into consideration the perspective of players not in the know, please forgive me. It gets old. I’m not perfect and probably need to reset my patience setting. Tbh, though, it doesn’t really seem to matter to some people. They want to believe that changing LBD was a half-assed lazy and arbitrary change and they are not willing to let go of that belief regardless of evidence or insider insights or anything. 
 

I’ve never told anyone they should just shut up about LBD but I have corrected people on their wrong speculations about why it was changed and how it was changed. Me clarifying the actual history of development is not a judgement statement about LBD itself and whether it should or should not return. 
 

I’ve probably explained why and how farming was changed a dozen times recently and yet it is ignored— often by the same person I explained it to. They will start up another thread spouting the same exact misconceptions that I already cleared up as though I had never posted. 
 

39 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

For you it was a 10 year development

LOL… no it wasn’t. That was a joke because it won’t be ten years until August of 2023. 
 

The LBD change was released over 2 years ago which was year 6 of development. Now we have someone arguing against the LBD change because 10 years in is just too late to make sweeping changes. 
 

If I correct the time line I get accused of stifling conversation. Even you latched onto the 10 year comment even thou we are still more than a year and a half from 10 years. 
 

It’s not really that big of a deal to me whether a feature was changed in year 6 or year 10 or year 15. It’s the fudging to cast a more negative light to bolster an argument falsely that I don’t like.

[Viktoriusiii]

9 minutes ago, Roland said:

I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.
So if that game wasn't pumped out in under a year, I think 10 years are a fair estimate... or did I miss something? Pls correct me if so

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.
So if that game wasn't pumped out in under a year, I think 10 years are a fair estimate... or did I miss something? Pls correct me if so

Sure. Late 2013 + 10 = late 2023

 

We just started 2022 so 10 years is still about 1.5 - 2 years in the future. 
 

No need for estimates Vic. Just add 10 to late 2013 and you’ll quickly surmise we aren’t there yet 

 

But that wasn’t even the crazy part of his post. He said it has been ten years and that is way too long for sweeping changes like LBD. So he was lumping in the LBD change from over 2 years ago with a ten year anniversary that won’t happen for almost 2 years from now. 
 

I call that bad estimating. Show me where I’m wrong. 
 

If he had said “We’re a little over 8 years in development which I believe is too long. When the LBD change was made 2 years ago at the 6 year mark, I believe that was too far in development for such a sweeping change”

 

I would have had nothing to correct him about. He is completely entitled to his opinion about how long dev time should be and that the LBD change should not have happened. I’ve got no problem with that opinion. 
 

BTW, I fully expect you guys to call it 15 years by time we get to the end of 2023…

Edited January 9, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Roland]

15 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8.

Also…

 

It was added to Steam Early Access in December of 2013 as Alpha 5. It had previously been available to play from when the Kickstarter ended— August, I believe, by downloading it direct from The Fun Pimps using the Kickstarter code. So some people actually played Alphas 1-4 before it went to Steam. It updated to Alpha 6 before the end of December and then Alphas 7 and 8 were about a month apart in early 2014. From Alpha 9 onward the update cycles grew longer. Alpha 9 is the earliest one still available in the beta opt-in list. 

[SylenThunder]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

Alpha 9 is the earliest one still available in the beta opt-in list. 

Correction. 8.8 is still in the list.  🙂

[Roland]

33 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Correction. 8.8 is still in the list.  🙂

 

Stop shutting me down!!

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Well I do explain it over and over again. I’ve explained that we just finished 8 years of development and we still get people saying 10+ years because it fits better with their complaint that development has been too long. 
 

When I explain early access and alpha and why changes are made, these people don’t thank me for the insider communication. They declare that I’m trying to shut down their opinion. 
 

So if my tone seems like I’m not taking into consideration the perspective of players not in the know, please forgive me. It gets old. I’m not perfect and probably need to reset my patience setting. Tbh, though, it doesn’t really seem to matter to some people. They want to believe that changing LBD was a half-assed lazy and arbitrary change and they are not willing to let go of that belief regardless of evidence or insider insights or anything. 
 

I’ve never told anyone they should just shut up about LBD but I have corrected people on their wrong speculations about why it was changed and how it was changed. Me clarifying the actual history of development is not a judgement statement about LBD itself and whether it should or should not return. 
 

I’ve probably explained why and how farming was changed a dozen times recently and yet it is ignored— often by the same person I explained it to. They will start up another thread spouting the same exact misconceptions that I already cleared up as though I had never posted. 
 

LOL… no it wasn’t. That was a joke because it won’t be ten years until August of 2023. 
 

The LBD change was released over 2 years ago which was year 6 of development. Now we have someone arguing against the LBD change because 10 years in is just too late to make sweeping changes. 
 

If I correct the time line I get accused of stifling conversation. Even you latched onto the 10 year comment even thou we are still more than a year and a half from 10 years. 
 

It’s not really that big of a deal to me whether a feature was changed in year 6 or year 10 or year 15. It’s the fudging to cast a more negative light to bolster an argument falsely that I don’t like.

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Sure. Late 2013 + 10 = late 2023

 

We just started 2022 so 10 years is still about 1.5 - 2 years in the future. 
 

No need for estimates Vic. Just add 10 to late 2013 and you’ll quickly surmise we aren’t there yet 

 

But that wasn’t even the crazy part of his post. He said it has been ten years and that is way too long for sweeping changes like LBD. So he was lumping in the LBD change from over 2 years ago with a ten year anniversary that won’t happen for almost 2 years from now. 
 

I call that bad estimating. Show me where I’m wrong. 
 

If he had said “We’re a little over 8 years in development which I believe is too long. When the LBD change was made 2 years ago at the 6 year mark, I believe that was too far in development for such a sweeping change”

 

I would have had nothing to correct him about. He is completely entitled to his opinion about how long dev time should be and that the LBD change should not have happened. I’ve got no problem with that opinion. 
 

BTW, I fully expect you guys to call it 15 years by time we get to the end of 2023…

Well What mean LBD?

 

Well i don't  shocked why people complaing.

Correct me if i  make timeline mistake okay?

in 2016 we get A16. And if i good remember bandits were added too ( as test enemies) so..... 7dtd was almost completed in 2016. 

If they added them to A17 or a 18 we could say everything is completed ( traders quests are some type of story right?)

And now we have 2022 a lot of changes happend since 2016 and...  i feel cheated.  This video "say" what i mean- this looks like horror game in ps1 or 2 style. and i expected something similiar in future- survival sandbox horror game.  now we get... mad max with zombies. Ofc we have better graphic but still - this could be done in l4d2 ( let's say a18 in 2018 was break point), metal gear survival or the last of us style. i have bad feeling when we get turrets but i was thinking it was done in this way to make crafting more logical - msg usemg as turret gun  mobile dead trigger have something similar too. But after that we have more and more mad max vibes. And now look at A11 screens,  forum background and life action trailer- how it's looks?  like something in walking dead and days gone stle. now looks on new guns models, outfits concept arts - what we get? something between  mad max and fallout 3. i feel cheated and dissapointed. Can i change past? no. But at least i can proof that in 2016 7dtd was almost done   

 

Btw sorry for grammar mistakes, i'm tired XD

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Maharin]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

I’m an information laxative. 

 

Oral laxative or... nevermind.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well What mean LBD?

 

Learn by doing. Instead of spending points to improve your skills, they improve incrementally as you perform an action. So craft 20 stone axes and your ability to craft stone axes goes up. Hit rock or ore with a pickaxe 20 times and your skill in mining goes up. That is the type of character progression people refer to as LBD. Like Valheim.

 

In A11 for the first time we were able to improve the quality of tools and weapons by crafting them. The more we crafted them the higher the quality of those items would be when we crafted them with a random plus or minus modifier. That was the start. From there we had a variety of variations and experimentations. Crafting progression through learn by doing ended after A15 and skill progression through learn by doing ended after A17.

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

in 2016 we get A16. And if i good remember bandits were added too ( as test enemies) so..... 7dtd was almost completed in 2016.

Bandits have been on the "next alpha" menu for years. They have not necessarily been the sign that development is over. They were always just one of the unfinished features people were looking forward to. Since they've repeatedly been punted NOW they have become the sign that the game is almost complete. But back in 2016 there were still other features needing to be completed in addition to bandits. They started the process-- not to finish the game but simply because they felt like it was time. Turns out it was not.

So, no, I would not consider Alpha 16 as the almost done version regardless that they experimented with bandits.

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

This video "say" what i mean- this looks like horror game in ps1 or 2 style. and i expected something similiar in future- survival sandbox horror game.  now we get... mad max with zombies.

 

That video of someone creeping around the biomes slowly moving sideways sometimes and looking around at nothing is what you were hoping for? Jeez....go edit the xml and cut zombie populations in half of what they already are and you can have that video right now. All that video proves is that the nostalgic memory of a world full of zombie hordes definitely doesn't apply to Alpha 11...

 

I read your posts a lot complaining that the horror is gone compared to the past and I really don't get what you're saying and I don't agree at all. I'm sorry that the devs aren't focusing on the things you want but if you are playing the game like Mad Max and you'd rather play it like a spooky silent hill then don't use vehicles and start crouch walking everywhere while turning a lot and looking at the sun through the trees. Turn off distant terrain and up the fog if necessary. I really don't play the game like Mad Max myself and I've moved into the wasteland in my game and I get creeped out by the sound effects all the time. The forest isn't a lot of horror but the wasteland certainly is.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[BarryTGash]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

spooky silent hill

 

The fog in A20 is quite spooky, especially at night!

[Viktoriusiii]

10 hours ago, Matt115 said:

*video of creepy sounds*

Damn I miss those sounds. Ah back when 7d2d was a horror game. Good times. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the looter shooter it is today. 

Just not horror anymore. (although the night sounds they have implemented are a good start, it doesn't feel scary 95% of the time)

Horror isn't about difficulty. An opponent I know but is strong is far less scary than an unknown opponent. Fog... creepy music... knowing they are looking for you... THAT is horror.

I told this story a hand full of times before.

But my most memorable moment (which actually repeated somewhat in A20 because of the new sounds) was in one of the earliest alphas.

It was nighttime, those sounds were there... I was huddled in a corner of my 4x4 wooden house. And I heard zombies running outside. 

They never hit the house even once. But I was SCARED @%$#LESS!!! That was great horror. And yes I didn't know the game as much as now. But the new sounds in A20 made me feel similar when I was in my mine at night and I heard a zombie. So its not only the knowledge, but the game is just not as much horror anymore.

And sounds are an important part of that.

 

[Matt115]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Learn by doing. Instead of spending points to improve your skills, they improve incrementally as you perform an action. So craft 20 stone axes and your ability to craft stone axes goes up. Hit rock or ore with a pickaxe 20 times and your skill in mining goes up. That is the type of character progression people refer to as LBD. Like Valheim.

 

In A11 for the first time we were able to improve the quality of tools and weapons by crafting them. The more we crafted them the higher the quality of those items would be when we crafted them with a random plus or minus modifier. That was the start. From there we had a variety of variations and experimentations. Crafting progression through learn by doing ended after A15 and skill progression through learn by doing ended after A17.

 

Bandits have been on the "next alpha" menu for years. They have not necessarily been the sign that development is over. They were always just one of the unfinished features people were looking forward to. Since they've repeatedly been punted NOW they have become the sign that the game is almost complete. But back in 2016 there were still other features needing to be completed in addition to bandits. They started the process-- not to finish the game but simply because they felt like it was time. Turns out it was not.

So, no, I would not consider Alpha 16 as the almost done version regardless that they experimented with bandits.

 

 

That video of someone creeping around the biomes slowly moving sideways sometimes and looking around at nothing is what you were hoping for? Jeez....go edit the xml and cut zombie populations in half of what they already are and you can have that video right now. All that video proves is that the nostalgic memory of a world full of zombie hordes definitely doesn't apply to Alpha 11...

 

I read your posts a lot complaining that the horror is gone compared to the past and I really don't get what you're saying and I don't agree at all. I'm sorry that the devs aren't focusing on the things you want but if you are playing the game like Mad Max and you'd rather play it like a spooky silent hill then don't use vehicles and start crouch walking everywhere while turning a lot and looking at the sun through the trees. Turn off distant terrain and up the fog if necessary. I really don't play the game like Mad Max myself and I've moved into the wasteland in my game and I get creeped out by the sound effects all the time. The forest isn't a lot of horror but the wasteland certainly is.

idk how to split quote in parts XD

1. LBD in Valheim works good because it isn't "connected" with crafting. In 7dtd make 10000 stone axes is not a big deal. in Valheim make bronze armor need a lot of work and time. If TFP connected LBD with using weapons, mining , running only and create skill tree with crafting + "survival things" like lucky looter this could work and allow them to add more weapons because they woudn't be connected with perks - now every perk need to have similar number of weapons

2. About bandits : Yes they were almost completed ( ofc if video on yt presented "real" bandits not modded ones) - ofc they would works in  minecraft mobs style but... well they would be added a lot of time ago.  Well if they added them ( and maybe story quest it but it could be just "transport" quests reskins)  and legendary tools/weapons everything from kickstarted list would be completed

-electricity

- vehicles

-friendly npc ( traders

-RWG.

So it could be ended in A16. Ofc now RWG, textures etc looks better but.. people who say it could be ended years ago tell true.

3. I mean by this - ambient was sometimes so similar to games connected more with horror setting - painkiller or cod waw verruck zombie map .

4. okay i will try to explain - i'm talking about gameplay - it is good( okay have few problems like farming but it can be solved so i' don't care this is alpha so rebalance is normal thing). i'm thinking about MORE design ( art style , setting) now,  that about gameplay - for example : m16 would be better assult gun that AK47- it is easier to find m16 in usa that ak47 - this would be "just" change of models but this same stats. I know some things cannot be added or cutted - children zombies could works good - resident evil kando daughter, no more room in hell , days gone , dying light are example but i know it cannot be added because people from dunno australia bought 7dtd and they could lose access to their game because law in this countries is stupid ( but still "official" mod can be solution)  , or cutted drone or sledge turret because- it is good from gameplay point of view but from setting point - this looks so bad- if this would be just normal from "shop" drone using for recone only it would suit to setting.  Well about past- when i was playing in "blocks" 7dtd it looks more like f.e.a.r that mad max - i use f.e.a.r as example because for example days gone released yet and 7dtd was darker even that l4d2  ( respawing near corpse in burning forest was more similar to fear). So this suggest  semi- realistic setting in l4d2 style but after a longer time since Day 0.  But i saw this concept art and it is official concept art - 

 

And it's looks more like tribes mans from fallout or boys from mad max that bandits. 

This same situation with weapons - new models of weapons + junks guns looks like mad max mixed with rage. 

Okay so clothes and armor + models of gunes suggest that TFP want to keep realistic setting similiar to walking dead. Now they new guns models + concept arts of armors  looks like mad max style right? So about vehicle is not totaly true- they suits too horror game good- fear, alan wake even walking dead.  Just for example - modifed military jeep or land rover would suits better that actuall 4X4 truck right? Guns parts can be "realistic" too right? i think it could be even easier to find stock from diffrent gun and add to m60 that shovel handle. So that's why i'm dissapointed because  7dtd change setting too much in bad way-  gameplay is better so i don't complain about this.

But 7dtd A11 and A20 is similitar to cod ww2 and vanguard- cod ww2 have much better setting- axis vs aliants , "generic" soldiers,  realistic guns. Vanguard have  better gameplay but it is so bad from setting point of view- this same guys fight each other, cursed guns with "magic" blueprints.

I hope this describtion is better- if something is unclear i can explain better.

Btw @Roland sorry for grammar mistakes and picture problems but i'm too tired to  fix this

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

Damn I miss those sounds. Ah back when 7d2d was a horror game. Good times. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the looter shooter it is today. 

Just not horror anymore. (although the night sounds they have implemented are a good start, it doesn't feel scary 95% of the time)

Horror isn't about difficulty. An opponent I know but is strong is far less scary than an unknown opponent. Fog... creepy music... knowing they are looking for you... THAT is horror.

I told this story a hand full of times before.

But my most memorable moment (which actually repeated somewhat in A20 because of the new sounds) was in one of the earliest alphas.

It was nighttime, those sounds were there... I was huddled in a corner of my 4x4 wooden house. And I heard zombies running outside. 

They never hit the house even once. But I was SCARED @%$#LESS!!! That was great horror. And yes I didn't know the game as much as now. But the new sounds in A20 made me feel similar when I was in my mine at night and I heard a zombie. So its not only the knowledge, but the game is just not as much horror anymore.

And sounds are an important part of that.

 

Well i like bordelands too. , i like tf2 etc so i like a lot of "settings" but 7dtd lose horror setting and that's point - game doesn't have to be hard to have good horror setting . NZA 1 have one of the best horror setting and this game can be easy but  still have good horror feeling

Edited January 10, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

Damn I miss those sounds. Ah back when 7d2d was a horror game. Good times. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the looter shooter it is today. 

Just not horror anymore. (although the night sounds they have implemented are a good start, it doesn't feel scary 95% of the time)

Horror isn't about difficulty. An opponent I know but is strong is far less scary than an unknown opponent. Fog... creepy music... knowing they are looking for you... THAT is horror.

 

"Unknown opponent" says the 1000 hours player without seeing a problem as big as an aircraft hangar

 

2 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I told this story a hand full of times before.

But my most memorable moment (which actually repeated somewhat in A20 because of the new sounds) was in one of the earliest alphas.

It was nighttime, those sounds were there... I was huddled in a corner of my 4x4 wooden house. And I heard zombies running outside. 

They never hit the house even once. But I was SCARED @%$#LESS!!! That was great horror. And yes I didn't know the game as much as now. But the new sounds in A20 made me feel similar when I was in my mine at night and I heard a zombie. So its not only the knowledge, but the game is just not as much horror anymore.

And sounds are an important part of that.

 

 

I had my most fear-inducing moments happen when I played my first few hours in the game along time ago. And since I always turn off music in games I don't think this fear of the unknown has much to do with the quality of any horror-music.

After that first game the typical "fear" I got was mostly at the start of a game when I'm frightfully underpowered and for example going out at night could be my end in seconds.

 

So fear in a horror game like this is fear of the unknown combined with the fear to meet enemies that will likely end your life. Fear of the unknown can only really happen for an extended time in a first playthrough (or when going into completely new POIs or new situations, mainly in a new alpha).

 

I get that you want to play this game again as if it was the first time, but recognize that a game can only give you fear of the unknown as long as there is something unknown left to fear.

 

What is left is fear for your life and that depends on your reflexes and shooter skills and knowledge of the game and whether you really fear death in the game. Due to the endless possibilities of putting or destroying blocks in the game, the open world and the need to make it work for new players you also can't have a situation identical to a linear horror shooter where you might feel that fear for your life nearly every time playing it.

 

 

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

idk how to split quote in parts XD

1. LBD in Valheim works good because it isn't "connected" with crafting. In 7dtd make 10000 stone axes is not a big deal. in Valheim make bronze armor need a lot of work and time. If TFP connected LBD with using weapons, mining , running only and create skill tree with crafting + "survival things" like lucky looter this could work and allow them to add more weapons because they woudn't be connected with perks - now every perk need to have similar number of weapons

2. About bandits : Yes they were almost completed ( ofc if video on yt presented "real" bandits not modded ones) - ofc they would works in  minecraft mobs style but... well they would be added a lot of time ago.  Well if they added them ( and maybe story quest it but it could be just "transport" quests reskins)  and legendary tools/weapons everything from kickstarted list would be completed

-electricity

- vehicles

-friendly npc ( traders

-RWG.

So it could be ended in A16. Ofc now RWG, textures etc looks better but.. people who say it could be ended years ago tell true.

3. I mean by this - ambient was sometimes so similar to games connected more with horror setting - painkiller or cod waw verruck zombie map .

4. okay i will try to explain - i'm talking about gameplay - it is good( okay have few problems like farming but it can be solved so i' don't care this is alpha so rebalance is normal thing). i'm thinking about MORE design ( art style , setting) now,  that about gameplay - for example : m16 would be better assult gun that AK47- it is easier to find m16 in usa that ak47 - this would be "just" change of models but this same stats. I know some things cannot be added or cutted - children zombies could works good - resident evil kando daughter, no more room in hell , days gone , dying light are example but i know it cannot be added because people from dunno australia bought 7dtd and they could lose access to their game because law in this countries is stupid ( but still "official" mod can be solution)  , or cutted drone or sledge turret because- it is good from gameplay point of view but from setting point - this looks so bad- if this would be just normal from "shop" drone using for recone only it would suit to setting.  Well about past- when i was playing in "blocks" 7dtd it looks more like f.e.a.r that mad max - i use f.e.a.r as example because for example days gone released yet and 7dtd was darker even that l4d2  ( respawing near corpse in burning forest was more similar to fear). So this suggest  semi- realistic setting in l4d2 style but after a longer time since Day 0.  But i saw this concept art and it is official concept art - 

 

And it's looks more like tribes mans from fallout or boys from mad max that bandits. 

This same situation with weapons - new models of weapons + junks guns looks like mad max mixed with rage. 

Okay so clothes and armor + models of gunes suggest that TFP want to keep realistic setting similiar to walking dead. Now they new guns models + concept arts of armors  looks like mad max style right? So about vehicle is not totaly true- they suits too horror game good- fear, alan wake even walking dead.  Just for example - modifed military jeep or land rover would suits better that actuall 4X4 truck right? Guns parts can be "realistic" too right? i think it could be even easier to find stock from diffrent gun and add to m60 that shovel handle. So that's why i'm dissapointed because  7dtd change setting too much in bad way-  gameplay is better so i don't complain about this.

But 7dtd A11 and A20 is similitar to cod ww2 and vanguard- cod ww2 have much better setting- axis vs aliants , "generic" soldiers,  realistic guns. Vanguard have  better gameplay but it is so bad from setting point of view- this same guys fight each other, cursed guns with "magic" blueprints.

I hope this describtion is better- if something is unclear i can explain better.

Btw @Roland sorry for grammar mistakes and picture problems but i'm too tired to  fix this

Well i like bordelands too. , i like tf2 etc so i like a lot of "settings" but 7dtd lose horror setting and that's point - game doesn't have to be hard to have good horror setting . NZA 1 have one of the best horror setting and this game can be easy but  still have good horror feeling

 

This "I saw some video by random guy on the internet and it suggested X and then came Y" happens a lot here because this game was developed in public view from the start and the developer themselves were experimenting with what they wanted from the game.

 

If you don't want a game to change under your feet, don't buy Early-Access games. If you want to have specific things in a game and it isn't written in large letters on the steam front page,  don't buy Early-Access games.

 

And yes, there is the word "horror" printed on the steam front page, but there are many forms of horror. Foul-looking Zombies who attack you may not be enough for you, but it is clearly enough for a checkmark on that label and enough for first-time players and sometimes even veterans to feal fear.

 

Accept that you made a mistake buying into this EA game and play the "real" dark horror game with child zombies and lots of guns that best fills your need, whatever that is. Accept that posting your desires into almost every new topic will still not change the style the developers intend for their game. I'll go out on a limb and predict that 7D2D will surely never be a "dark horror" game in its vanilla form.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Urban Blackbear]

LBD in Valheim gets ruined by the death penalty in my opinion. It takes forever to grind out skill points and a few bad deaths can literally set you back days.

[Viktoriusiii]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

"Unknown opponent" says the 1000 hours player without seeing a problem as big as an aircraft hangar

 

did you even read what I said about A20? I had this same fear in A20 when the sounds at night were there.
I know more than ever... but the game was actually scary. But that was only one time... back then it was much more often, because it was a horror game. This is a zombies lasher/looter-shooter.

 

I would bet money that if you asked back then if the game was scary and atmospheric and nowadays, it would be a massive difference. 

One more aspect of horror is helplessness. Early you never had any real weapon for the first 14 days. I was SO happy when I found a crossbow on day 12.

 

Now, if I don't have a T1 or T2 gun after 3 days, it was bad rng. 

[Matt115]

24 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

This "I saw some video by random guy on the internet and it suggested X and then came Y" happens a lot here because this game was developed in public view from the start and the developer themselves were experimenting with what they wanted from the game.

 

If you don't want a game to change under your feet, don't buy Early-Access games. If you want to have specific things in a game and it isn't written in large letters on the steam front page,  don't buy Early-Access games.

 

And yes, there is the word "horror" printed on the steam front page, but there are many forms of horror. Foul-looking Zombies who attack you may not be enough for you, but it is clearly enough for a checkmark on that label and enough for first-time players and sometimes even veterans to feal fear.

 

Accept that you made a mistake buying into this EA game and play the "real" horror game with child zombies and lots of guns that fills your need, whatever that is. Accept that posting your desires into almost every new topic will still not change the style the developers intended for their game.

 

 

I know it will not change their decisions  but... still doesn't change anything. Terraria - was in early access  and have this same setting, this same bannerlord or die young. That's true there many form of horrors and i agree with you but this change is big enough be seen right? 

And about last one - you choose the most "extreme" examples XD  child zombies was example what cannot be changed no matter what because law and about guns- i think change models of them woudn't be so big deal if a lot people would complain about that.  They want to change  armor system right? But i think  more people prefer how they looks like ( not work, i think most people want to simplifited clothes system but keeping "orginal" style i mean how them looks - normal shoes pants thirt not clown suit) so i think if most people will say "geek outfit looks terrible" they will  probably scrap this.

And i was writing about  everywhere  about what in my opinion go wrong because... maybe it can influence on another their game right?  So in theory- let say - if people would  talk a lot about blocking melee attack devs can notice this but it is too late to add this to 7dtd. But they can concider  adding this in their next game. So if people would talk about lack of horror element in 7dtd they maybe will more focus about this in the future. So  yes i accepted how 7dtd looks like but what i'm doing can infulence in the future

[Gazz]

39 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

LBD in Valheim gets ruined by the death penalty in my opinion. It takes forever to grind out skill points and a few bad deaths can literally set you back days.

 

Skill atrophy is the only thing that makes LBD viable in Valheim. Without it everyone could simply AFK-grind the weapon skills to max and be done with them for the entire game.

 

[Matt115]

46 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

LBD in Valheim gets ruined by the death penalty in my opinion. It takes forever to grind out skill points and a few bad deaths can literally set you back days.

Well this is good way to force players to play "safe"

4 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

Skill atrophy is the only thing that makes LBD viable in Valheim. Without it everyone could simply AFK-grind the weapon skills to max and be done with them for the entire game.

 

AFK grinding  in my opinion can't in valheim because  : leveling is slow + to make your dmg visible bigger you have to mining stuff

[BFT2020]

So in all seriousness, if we pay extra for this game, does Roland come to our house and spend the entire time behind us telling us what to do and what not to do?😁

 

Cause I paid the base price for this game and I have yet to have anyone from TFP show up at my home to tell me how to play the game .  I feel taken advantage of since I am not getting this feature  🤔

 

🤪

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

 

did you even read what I said about A20? I had this same fear in A20 when the sounds at night were there.

 

Sorry for the cheap shot 😉. But I also explained why I think the horror of the unknown can't happen to you anymore, not even with the music. I may be wrong but the music just added to your fear of getting into a dangerous situation and getting killed.

 

A big hint is that the music runs in loops. If the music were sooo important why don't you fear again and again whenever it plays?

 

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I know more than ever... but the game was actually scary. But that was only one time... back then it was much more often, because it was a horror game. This is a zombies lasher/looter-shooter.

 

Ok, I'll just say that I started in A15 and my first hours in my first playthrough had a high level of horror. But the next 5 playthroughs it was a lot of fun but not much horror. It wasn't an intrinsic characteristic of A15, it was just that the first time everything was new.

 

I think your ability to feel horror in a game you played for hours depends largely on whether you find a specific difficulty setting that generates the right amount of danger without making the game too frustratingly difficult. And new features might give you some horific surprise from time to time. Nothing specififc to A15 or A16.

 

Just my opinion, but thinking back at A16 the most horror I had was when I ran the minibike into a lake, 😉

 

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

 

I would bet money that if you asked back then if the game was scary and atmospheric and nowadays, it would be a massive difference. 

One more aspect of horror is helplessness. Early you never had any real weapon for the first 14 days. I was SO happy when I found a crossbow on day 12.

 

Well, ask me. Apart from when I first played the game, nope. I get exactly the same fear whenever I feel that an unlucky spawn of zombies could end my life any second, no matter the alpha. The best moment I had in a long time was when I did my first generator-turn-on-at-night quest in A20. Because it was unknown what would happen and actually a lot happened. But already the second time doing a night-quest was much much less fear-inducing. I didn't expect the feeling to last.

 

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

 

Now, if I don't have a T1 or T2 gun after 3 days, it was bad rng. 

 

Yes, that is a problem A15/A16 didn't have. Not the music, not some horror feel, it is that early game is over too fast now.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Urban Blackbear]

29 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well this is good way to force players to play "safe"

AFK grinding  in my opinion can't in valheim because  : leveling is slow + to make your dmg visible bigger you have to mining stuff

 

 

37 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

Skill atrophy is the only thing that makes LBD viable in Valheim. Without it everyone could simply AFK-grind the weapon skills to max and be done with them for the entire game.

 

 

They actually patched grinding your weapon skills out of Valheim. You can't attack rocks anymore and raise your weapon skills. Everything is now solid work to grind out. I don't mind a penalty for dying but when its 5% off 5 random skills it gets to be discouraging. If you have skills at 100 you can potentially lose 5 points off of them. It takes hours upon hours to get that back. Especially from a game that actively tries to kill you at times. I once had my base attacked 6 times in a row in one play session by trolls.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Urban Blackbear (see edit history)

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

A big hint is that the music runs in loops. If the music were sooo important why don't you fear again and again whenever it plays?

 

Damn i think meganoth you never hear witch or tank theme from l4d2 XD this is stressful as hell 😂