Farming not very viable even with living off the land 3.

[Misamor]

Hey, new player here,

 

Lots of talk about "living on bacon and eggs".

How do you guys even do that ? I find like 1 egg every 4-5 nests. Bacon and eggs require a whopping 2 eggs lol. I even saw other, more advanced recipes required eggs. Crazy.

Is there a better way to get eggs ? Do nests "recharge" after a while ? (I tend to destroy them).

 

Anyway, the cake is a lie.

[Urban Blackbear]

Nests will respawn their contents on whichever schedule is set for loot respawns in your world options. Best way to get them is to get a bicycle and just ride around in the wilderness. They're much easier to spot with a higher viewpoint.

 

Edit: No cake! Only pie!

[Orclover]

6 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

Nests will respawn their contents on whichever schedule is set for loot respawns in your world options. Best way to get them is to get a bicycle and just ride around in the wilderness. They're much easier to spot with a higher viewpoint.

 

Edit: No cake! Only pie!

 

Why would you have loot respawn on?  I don't even know anybody who would leave that on.  So eventually you are going to run out of eggs.  Would be nice if we could build a hen house out of a dead chicken (meat, bones and feathers?), some zombie flesh, wood and of course mutant corn.  Have it pump out eggs like our farm crops pump out veggies.  Maybe drop some feathers occasionally.

[Misamor]

9 minutes ago, Orclover said:

 

Why would you have loot respawn on?  I don't even know anybody who would leave that on.  So eventually you are going to run out of eggs.  Would be nice if we could build a hen house out of a dead chicken (meat, bones and feathers?), some zombie flesh, wood and of course mutant corn.  Have it pump out eggs like our farm crops pump out veggies.  Maybe drop some feathers occasionally.

 

Sounds kinda far-fetched to me aha, why not just a coop with a few *alive* chickens in it ? 

[pApA^LeGBa]

11 minutes ago, Orclover said:

 

Why would you have loot respawn on?  I don't even know anybody who would leave that on.  So eventually you are going to run out of eggs.  Would be nice if we could build a hen house out of a dead chicken (meat, bones and feathers?), some zombie flesh, wood and of course mutant corn.  Have it pump out eggs like our farm crops pump out veggies.  Maybe drop some feathers occasionally.

 

It´s the default to have it on and as always with default settings, there is a lot of players doing it that way. You just wont see them bragging about it obviously. In fact i think playing no lootrespawn is the minority.

 

Also on servers it basically always with loot respawn. Would be impossible to join as a new player otherwise.

 

Taming animals is not an option for TFP. They said that several times in the past.

[Misamor]

8 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

It´s the default to have it on and as always with default settings, there is a lot of players doing it that way. You just wont see them bragging about it obviously. In fact i think playing no lootrespawn is the minority.

 

Also on servers it basically always with loot respawn. Would be impossible to join as a new player otherwise.

 

Taming animals is not an option for TFP. They said that several times in the past.

 

Taming is a big word... I was more thinking about abducting a couple of poor chickens and forcing them to give me eggs in a 2x2 square 😁

[Urban Blackbear]

20 minutes ago, Orclover said:

 

Why would you have loot respawn on?  I don't even know anybody who would leave that on.  So eventually you are going to run out of eggs.  Would be nice if we could build a hen house out of a dead chicken (meat, bones and feathers?), some zombie flesh, wood and of course mutant corn.  Have it pump out eggs like our farm crops pump out veggies.  Maybe drop some feathers occasionally.

 

The default setting is 7 Days. Plus, the joy of having options is that I can set it however I want without affecting you. Crazy, right?

[IgnyteZero]

2 hours ago, Urban Blackbear said:

 

The default setting is 7 Days. Plus, the joy of having options is that I can set it however I want without affecting you. Crazy, right?

 

It used to be 30, but yes I noticed this change. I suppose that's intended for newbies and/or larger and popular servers. Personally I prefer some level of attrition on loot respawn. 7 days is imho waaaay to low. The old was ok. But playing a private server you'd want loot to start to become rarer, forcing you to explore more of the map. Just to keep the game interesting.

However, I'd like if they made nest spawns (or any other natural respawns) have their own separate timer. It'd make sense to get new feathers and egg more often than POI's magically refilling.

[Urban Blackbear]

Yeah, 7 days is a little low IMO.

[ElCabong]

If you like to gamble, this could be fun. I planted a pumpkin seed but only harvested for pumpkins. I have living off the land one. Then I looted a pumpkin. That gave me five and I also looted the pumpkin seed schematic.

 

So I said what the hell, let's make another seed, plant it, and I either get four pumpkins and a seed to grow some more or four pumpkins. I won't be able to make any more pumpkin pies than I can now. And yes I've lost one pumpkin for the chance of making four more and a seed. If I get the seed, that's at least eight pumpkins.

[hiemfire]

1 hour ago, IgnyteZero said:

 

It used to be 30, but yes I noticed this change. I suppose that's intended for newbies and/or larger and popular servers. Personally I prefer some level of attrition on loot respawn. 7 days is imho waaaay to low. The old was ok. But playing a private server you'd want loot to start to become rarer, forcing you to explore more of the map. Just to keep the game interesting.

However, I'd like if they made nest spawns (or any other natural respawns) have their own separate timer. It'd make sense to get new feathers and egg more often than POI's magically refilling.

 

1 hour ago, Urban Blackbear said:

Yeah, 7 days is a little low IMO.

 

Zombie sleeper respawn is tied to this as well.

[Missecho]

As much as I thought this was 'nerfed', I am now at Lotl 3, planted the crops to sustain 2 of us  (didn't plant anything until level 3), and have ample food returns after  my first harvest.  I started with 20 each of corn and potatoes, 10 of blueberry, mushroom, coffee, and yukka.   Didn't have enough seed to plant pumpkins and aloe yet.   Looking at what I harvested, I think I will drop back to 15 each of corn/potatos, and 5 each of everything else to sustain 2 of us and toss in 20 super corn.  

 

I didn't harvest any wild/poi crops until such time as I was at Lotl 3 (just marked em on my map).  Then went back and harvested to get my seed stock to start with.  I guess the only real 'nerf' is the fact that you have to replant the whole bed each harvest.   However I think this would be easier than have to replant 9/11 as you don't really need to worry about finding the holes to plant so really is pretty quick.

[bloodmoth13]

20 hours ago, Misamor said:

 

Taming is a big word... I was more thinking about abducting a couple of poor chickens and forcing them to give me eggs in a 2x2 square 😁

Yeah taming i think was specifically directed at a pet dog. Someone brought up the pet dog mechanic from another game and wanted it in but MM said no, too much work. 7dtd dogs have very basic animations as opposed to the myriad of animations the dog in the unmentioned title had.

 

I agree with the chicken coop. Use eggs to hatch chickens, use hatched chickens to lay eggs. Input corn/cornmeal/corn seeds or other food (chickens will eat pretty much anything) as fuel.
The station wouldnt create food from nothing, chickens need to be fed so building it on day1 would net very little, but once you have some excess corn you could start turning that corn into eggs to bake cakes and such.

 

Eggs being dictated by respawn time sucks, i play with slower respawn time since i dont want to loot the same building over and over, and traders can reset buildings if i ever get to the point i have looted the entire map (likely never) i would almost settle for letting nests respawn every 7 days while keeping everything else much slower, but i believe animal husbandry is a worthy goal for the game (NOT TAMING!)

[IgnyteZero]

16 hours ago, hiemfire said:

 

 

Zombie sleeper respawn is tied to this as well.

Sure. And nests are even less related to those. So should be it's own cycle.

But I guess that's a little OT.

[Bouzouki]

I didn't read the whole thread, but one of the changes I like is farming.  It adds some stress to surviving early on, but it's far from impossible. Totally my opinion, but, I wish it was more difficult, or even had a setting to govern days until ripe, or chance for seed on harvest. How about insect or plant disease? That would be awesome! Then add cannibalism... Ya...  eat each other! But, I digress, Having a vibrant farm in a post-apocalyptic world should be an end game luxury, not something that is blown past because I dumped in fortitude and farming in the first 8 levels.  My two cents, but - nice change on the farming in A20 - but it could be more.

[ElCabong]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:53 AM, Misamor said:

Hey, new player here,

 

Lots of talk about "living on bacon and eggs".

How do you guys even do that ? I find like 1 egg every 4-5 nests. Bacon and eggs require a whopping 2 eggs lol. I even saw other, more advanced recipes required eggs. Crazy.

Is there a better way to get eggs ? Do nests "recharge" after a while ? (I tend to destroy them).

 

Anyway, the cake is a lie.

You have to look through a lot of nests, starting out you only need six eggs to survive for the day. Then you have to get the meat and you need 15 of that. It is something of a pain early on, you got to look for the nests until you get your six eggs. Then you find other things and you don't  subsist on bacon eggs.

I think farming is working with living off the land one. It's not like it was before but I'm making plenty of food from my very small farm. I think I'm looting more seeds. 

[Survager]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:47 AM, Roland said:

Not a waste of time because you got a bunch of crops from it that you can use for recipes. That's like saying the meat you get from killing an animal is a waste of time because you can't use most of it to birth another animal.

 

Well, in that case, after killing an animal, you need to make a 50% chance that you will not collect meat from it, but only bones and fat)))
Please do not do this, I just gave the example of how it works for me now with farming... as I feel )

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Survager said:

 

Well, in that case, after killing an animal, you need to make a 50% chance that you will not collect meat from it, but only bones and fat)))
Please do not do this, I just gave the example of how it works for me now with farming... as I feel )

 

You fool! Never ask for features you don't want. Those are the only ones the devs add from community feedback!!

[Maharin]

Instead, make it so that there is a 50% chance that trying to harvest meat from an animal corpse will instead raise it as an animal zombie that will promptly break your arm or leg and then die again, so to speak.

[Ianua]

Wow. I guess I have been farming the wrong way. I've never had more than 18 plots going at a time. First getting enough rotting meat to make plots then having enough seeds is a problem in the beginning. I don't bother with cotton, goldenrod or chrysanthemum since i get "enough" of those in the wild.  Blueberries are only good if you have eggs and no meat. I horde canned food from vending machines until I can make the higher value foods but tend to start getting to many of the 100+ foods stockpiled and we don't ever get that hungry.  

 

I'm excited to try the changes. I heard that "wellness" was removed. Not even sure I understand what wellness was.

[SunGod]

Count me in as really loathing the new farming system. It's ultra-grindy and frustratingly inefficient. What's the actual point of me investing in Living Off The Land skills when getting back seeds is such a crapshoot? Sorry Pimps, looooooong time player here since Alpha 5, but this is not a great way to address your concern about players having too much food.

 

Want to make food harder to grow? Then instead try these things that would make a LOT more sense than how A20 does it:

1. Introduce weather effects on plant growth. Too cold? Then slow or halt the growth rate.
2. Alternate growth speed based on available sunlight and day length. Players love day lengths of 9 hours? Then give them 7 hours of light that contributes to plant growth, or lowers the yield.
3. Introduce plant fungi and diseases that can kill crops. Don't catch it in time and you planted everything too closely together? Then you lose everything. Will also force you to keep an eye on your crops rather than venturing out into the world and taking it for granted everything will grow just fine
4. Introduce soil fertility as a factor for plant yield. Planting in crappy soil or desert scrub? Then get a low yield. High fertilized and high watered soil? Then get a high yield. (I seem to recall fertilizer being an option some years back.)

But I agree with OP, having a random seed-return rate despite having invested points into the farming skill is pretty ridiculous. Seems the game is way overweighted on crafting junk like helicopters and 4x4s, and just really missed the mark on farming in A20. Downvote from me, big turnoff.

[PoppaSmirk]

So,  as someone with more than 2000 hours of playtime,  from versions 16 to the current Alpha 20;  I'm not going to declare myself an expert of any sort;  merely a gamer that enjoys this game very much,  in solo play and also as a great bit of fun with 2-3 friends.  I am somewhat of the Planning Sort,  a Doomsday Prepper that is "livin the dream'  when playing 7D2D  I tend to be the one that my friends look to,  for the last word on what building to finally settle in as our base, and to coordinate a lot of the defenses that are planned to be installed, the food situation,  etc.  

 

So since the release of Alpha 20,  Myself and 2 others (and twice so far we had a 4th player) have started a new Random Gen World.  I waited on farming until we gathered a variety of seeds  (which was slow) and finally on Day 20 I crafted  14 farm plots to get started in farming,  so Our Intrepid Band of Survivors could get out of the rut of feeling that Bacon & Eggs was the best that life could give.  I didn't know prior to My first planting on Day 21, that farming had been changed.  I did lave level 2 of LOTL.  So when I planted 7 corn seeds,  2 Mushroom spores, and an Aloe Vera plant,  I expected  14 corn, 4 mushroom, and 2 Aloe Vera.  What happened did leave me shocked and dismayed.  On Day 24, I harvested a total of 12 corn, and 3 corn seeds.  4 mushrooms and 1 mushroom spore, and 4 aloe vera.  So In shock,  I realise that My 2nd planting is not going to be as plentiful as the first.  With the yield I had,  using no other resources, I could only replant 5 corn seeds (using 10 from the harvest to craft 2 more seeds , added to the 3 seeds I harvested).  I could only replant 1 mushroom spore, as the 4 that I harvested were not enough to create a new spore. The aloe vera I could only toss into our Med Supplies box.  So at the end of a harvest of 10 plants, I ended up with 2 ears of corn, 4 mushroom, 4 aloe vera.  Definitely not a situation to feel hopeful about.  

 

I really do not mind that there is now a chance of only getting "a seed'  as part of a plant harvest.  I do think that the 50% chance is too high if a player has Level 2 of LOTL,  because your perk/skills alone indicate that you are past being a fledgling to farming..   I also have some difficulty in the line of thought that "they are trying to make farming more realistic";  because I feel if that were true,  then it wouldn't take 5 plants to produce a new seed. so we aren't talking about  "realism".  At best the discussion should be "value of added gameplay"  Farming is literally not for everyone  One woman that plays with us would rather have everyone else take care of the farming,  she gets her little thrills out of coming back to base after a 2-3 day loot run and then creating PILES of meat stew ( and later spaghetti), and nothing else seems to interest her in the "base building and maintenance" portions of daily life in 7D2D.   Now for myself and the other man that plays regularly with us,  we enjoy farming,  we enjoy using the crops to create some variety in our food supply.  A good farm means the chance of making meals that satisfy hunger longer, plus we think its a sign that we are doing just a little bit more than merely "surviving"  So for "added gameplay value"  I could very easily get behind the idea that sometimes,  crops do fail.  This idea keeps it a viable option to continue bringing seeds back to your base during a loot run,  as opposed to the situation we often had in Alpha 19, when I would reach the 'limit"  on how many seeds I needed,  by Day 18-20.  because in all honesty,  once you had a couple of each seed,  you could continue creating new seeds over time,  without ever needing to bring back any seeds from scavenging locations.  However,  if leaving the 50% chance of getting only a seed,  in at LOTL level 1, then getting level 2 of LOTL should show some progression in your farming skills.  I would suggest the chance of only getting a seed would go from 50% down to 40%.    I would also prefer to see the amount of plants needed to make a new seed,  to drop from 5 plants/ears/fruits/items,  down to 4 plants/fruits/items at LOTL Level 2.  Then at Level 3 of LOTL, the chance to only get a seed could feel like the Player really has grown as a farmer,  if seed chance drops to 25%, and the cost to create a new seed drops to just 3 plants/fruits/ears/items..  Then the Skill supports the concept that by LOTL Level 3,  you are an experienced farmer now, you learned, and can now bring in bushels of food each harvest day.   An unlucky harvest at LOTL Lv 3 is not going to doom your self or your group to "need" to scavenge more seeds or go back to eating nothing but grilled meat.

 

I add these comments because I feel there are many that do enjoy farming,  just as many also get into base building,  and some into adding aesthetics,  or building vehicles,  or making exotic kill zones for Horde nights.  Each activity is part of the total package of fun to be had in playing the game.  If I simply wanted an intricately detailed survival experience, then I would just binge watch the TV series,  "Naked and Afraid".  I do hope that some of the Developers happen to read this post, and can find some thoughtful ideas.  I very much respect and enjoy the game, for all of the great thrills to be found;  but I hope they will see that having farming in game doesn't have to mean its only a chore to grind out,  we already have mining & looting to fill the "grinding need"  ( and don't get me started on asking "why are NONE of the workbenches in the POIS of the world working?   That too is totally unrealistic, especially in the Traders POIs )

 

But I do hope I give some "food for thought" in my discussion of the Alpha 20 experimental farming situation.

[BuildingWorker]

if there is an automated farm...😏

[Ianua]

I've been thinking about the "it takes 5 corn to make a seed" argument and it occurs to me that I have been thinking about this wrong.  I actually garden (if you can call it that) IRL. I do this because my hubby is disabled and LOVES anything outside, so he needs my assistance. I hate the outdoors and have a brown thumb.

 

My efforts to grow seedlings are comical. Out of 10 plants I might get 3 that survive to the stage that they can go outside to be planted. I have tried peat pots, tiny indoor greenhouses, special lights, we even own an actual outdoor greenhouse which I gave up on using after 5 years. It isn't that I am stupid, just plants and I are not a thing.  So perhaps instead of thinking of  "5 potato for one seed" when we know a potato can give you 5 or more eyes to plant, think of it as ok, you only managed to get 1 viable plant that survives to maturity to produce food.

 

I don't know about the new mechanic since I haven't booted up an A20 game yet, but I'm sure I will adapt. The game is still outrageously fun. Please change the nest respawns so they aren't linked to zombie spawns or loot respawn. nests being replenished makes sense unless the birds are all dead, 

[meganoth]

11 hours ago, PoppaSmirk said:

So,  as someone with more than 2000 hours of playtime,  from versions 16 to the current Alpha 20;  I'm not going to declare myself an expert of any sort;  merely a gamer that enjoys this game very much,  in solo play and also as a great bit of fun with 2-3 friends.  I am somewhat of the Planning Sort,  a Doomsday Prepper that is "livin the dream'  when playing 7D2D  I tend to be the one that my friends look to,  for the last word on what building to finally settle in as our base, and to coordinate a lot of the defenses that are planned to be installed, the food situation,  etc.  

 

So since the release of Alpha 20,  Myself and 2 others (and twice so far we had a 4th player) have started a new Random Gen World.  I waited on farming until we gathered a variety of seeds  (which was slow) and finally on Day 20 I crafted  14 farm plots to get started in farming,  so Our Intrepid Band of Survivors could get out of the rut of feeling that Bacon & Eggs was the best that life could give.  I didn't know prior to My first planting on Day 21, that farming had been changed.  I did lave level 2 of LOTL.  So when I planted 7 corn seeds,  2 Mushroom spores, and an Aloe Vera plant,  I expected  14 corn, 4 mushroom, and 2 Aloe Vera.  What happened did leave me shocked and dismayed.  On Day 24, I harvested a total of 12 corn, and 3 corn seeds.  4 mushrooms and 1 mushroom spore, and 4 aloe vera. 

 

This can't be. If you plant 7 corn seeds, you would get back 14 corn without any LOTL and 28 with LOTL 1 or LOTL 2. And the other numbers are consistent with you having NO LOTL when you did your first harvest.

 

Possibly a bug, if you can replicate it I'm sure TFP would like to know. If not, maybe you increased LOTL only after your harvested or forgot really to do it. What you have been experiencing is the situation of someone with no farming knowledge at all (and you probably only put 6 corn seed down)

 

Please check what level of LOTL you have now and maybe recreate the situation with seeds from creative menue. Do it again and you will notice you get 28 corn seeds back, usually more than enough to reaquire the lost seeds.

 

TFP also already announced that they will buff LOTL 2 to be exactly between 1 and 3 in harvest results.

 

11 hours ago, PoppaSmirk said:

So In shock,  I realise that My 2nd planting is not going to be as plentiful as the first.  With the yield I had,  using no other resources, I could only replant 5 corn seeds (using 10 from the harvest to craft 2 more seeds , added to the 3 seeds I harvested).  I could only replant 1 mushroom spore, as the 4 that I harvested were not enough to create a new spore. The aloe vera I could only toss into our Med Supplies box.  So at the end of a harvest of 10 plants, I ended up with 2 ears of corn, 4 mushroom, 4 aloe vera.  Definitely not a situation to feel hopeful about.  

 

I really do not mind that there is now a chance of only getting "a seed'  as part of a plant harvest.  I do think that the 50% chance is too high if a player has Level 2 of LOTL,  because your perk/skills alone indicate that you are past being a fledgling to farming..   I also have some difficulty in the line of thought that "they are trying to make farming more realistic";  because I feel if that were true,  then it wouldn't take 5 plants to produce a new seed. so we aren't talking about  "realism".  At best the discussion should be "value of added gameplay"  Farming is literally not for everyone  One woman that plays with us would rather have everyone else take care of the farming,  she gets her little thrills out of coming back to base after a 2-3 day loot run and then creating PILES of meat stew ( and later spaghetti), and nothing else seems to interest her in the "base building and maintenance" portions of daily life in 7D2D.   Now for myself and the other man that plays regularly with us,  we enjoy farming,  we enjoy using the crops to create some variety in our food supply.  A good farm means the chance of making meals that satisfy hunger longer, plus we think its a sign that we are doing just a little bit more than merely "surviving"  So for "added gameplay value"  I could very easily get behind the idea that sometimes,  crops do fail.  This idea keeps it a viable option to continue bringing seeds back to your base during a loot run,  as opposed to the situation we often had in Alpha 19, when I would reach the 'limit"  on how many seeds I needed,  by Day 18-20.  because in all honesty,  once you had a couple of each seed,  you could continue creating new seeds over time,  without ever needing to bring back any seeds from scavenging locations.  However,  if leaving the 50% chance of getting only a seed,  in at LOTL level 1, then getting level 2 of LOTL should show some progression in your farming skills.  I would suggest the chance of only getting a seed would go from 50% down to 40%.    I would also prefer to see the amount of plants needed to make a new seed,  to drop from 5 plants/ears/fruits/items,  down to 4 plants/fruits/items at LOTL Level 2.  Then at Level 3 of LOTL, the chance to only get a seed could feel like the Player really has grown as a farmer,  if seed chance drops to 25%, and the cost to create a new seed drops to just 3 plants/fruits/ears/items..  Then the Skill supports the concept that by LOTL Level 3,  you are an experienced farmer now, you learned, and can now bring in bushels of food each harvest day.   An unlucky harvest at LOTL Lv 3 is not going to doom your self or your group to "need" to scavenge more seeds or go back to eating nothing but grilled meat.

 

I add these comments because I feel there are many that do enjoy farming,  just as many also get into base building,  and some into adding aesthetics,  or building vehicles,  or making exotic kill zones for Horde nights.  Each activity is part of the total package of fun to be had in playing the game.  If I simply wanted an intricately detailed survival experience, then I would just binge watch the TV series,  "Naked and Afraid".  I do hope that some of the Developers happen to read this post, and can find some thoughtful ideas.  I very much respect and enjoy the game, for all of the great thrills to be found;  but I hope they will see that having farming in game doesn't have to mean its only a chore to grind out,  we already have mining & looting to fill the "grinding need"  ( and don't get me started on asking "why are NONE of the workbenches in the POIS of the world working?   That too is totally unrealistic, especially in the Traders POIs )

 

But I do hope I give some "food for thought" in my discussion of the Alpha 20 experimental farming situation.