Open Letter to TFP's...

[Demandred1957]

3 minutes ago, 7daysOfFun said:

ok perhaps..u try a lower difficult

 

in my first game at 7days...iv died 250times (ca. 100x for placing spikes 100x in buildungs 50x falling down)

the game IS HARD at the start...when u dont have a good weapon like a hammer or something u will die..u must have attention and open eyes everywhere

 

when ur fps drops = lower settings (f8 for fps seeing in game)

 

"You masochist expert players are all like "git gud noob"" no sir..everybody started little and then grow up

when the game is 2 hard for u, there are a lot of difficults u can choose (iv startet at normal and zombies walking all time) that was good to learn

 

driving/killing with car or motorbike seems 2 easy...i dont think thats the style of 7days

 

"""""Uh, yeah.. NOT a weak PC btw.. I7 7700k (unlocked) Overclocked and water cooled.. Two GTX 1080 Ti's overclocked and also water cooled, running in SLI mode. Game installed on a Samsung Pro nvme 1tb m.2 drive. with 64GB of DDR4 3600mhz ram..

It's piss poor game optimization..""""

this is not ubisoft or ea.. they have a budget from milion dollars..and the game cost 70euro..this game is avaible from 6-21euo...and from this >what the game is, its superb

???? > i play on fx8370 16gb ram ssd an xt 5700 xt oc and its full 25-40 fps in 4k mode ultra plus

whats ur fps rate in the game???

"driving killing seems to easy" ok, then YOU don't do that...simple.

Normal is solid 60 fps at all times...unless there are more than 10 zoms on screen, in any area with more than 1-2 buildings around.

And in the newly redone POI's like crack a book.. my frames dropped to around 25-30 fps. Where you can feel it "drag" when you are trying to move around..

1 minute ago, Noctoras said:

I think there is no point in artificially making it impossible. But giving vehicles a (rare) chance for breakdown for instance, why not? 

 

You can go for it, but there is a slim chance for a breakdown. Sounds good to me. It would be lame and artificial, if vehicles only broke down ob horde night for instance. 

Yeah, I would  be on board for that as long as it didn't happen all the time, or just on horde night.

Because yeah..crap happens.. spark plugs get fouled, fuel filters plug up, you can get a flat..

That would be a balanced way to do things.

I don't have a problem with solutions as long as they are fair.

[Noctoras]

On 7/11/2020 at 6:05 PM, canadianbluebeer said:

 

For early hordes, there are several that are simple to build/use that work fine until the demo zeds show up.

 

Mind you, I absolutely HATE the digging aspect of the zombies, my opinion is that it's broken the pathing more than

anything else has. 

😛

 

Outlines the flaws of the current concept pretty well. If there is only very few specific base designs working on demos, thats like a demo specific cheese base. 

 

Instead of giving u options, demos are taking options from the game. 

 

Btw my best base design against demos is "no base" design. Just shoot em all while running somewjere in open fields. Works fine, no endless base repairs, no swiss cheese u cannot adequately re-flatten. And if it explodes, it kills his zombie peers instead of your base. 

 

But no base shouldnt be the best base. It feels wrong being the best option to me apart from specific demo base designs which i don't like. 

 

As for digging. Digging is okay for me, but the distance zombies can sense you shouldn't be as deep as it is. 

[Demandred1957]

3 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

As for digging. Digging is okay for me, but the distance zombies can sense you shouldn't be as deep as it is.

Right?? In fact, if I am being a little wuss hiding in a hole making no sound, with no light, or anything else to give me away, they shouldn't be able to find me unless they fall in the hole on top of me. That's something else that bothers me, but I have just been living with it..

Maybe the animals, because I guess they could "Smell" you. but not anything else..

A lot of this game is based on "magic" but c'mon...

There are only a damn few movie monsters that can find you when you are well hidden.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Demandred1957 said:

I can't call that a legitimate strategy??? Seriously? A plan to use a two ton 4 wheel drive vehicle to plow my way through some dead, 200 lb walking (running) corpses???

This game wouldn't exist without zombie movies, and the walking dead tv show, and guess what?

That's always been a legit way to get away from zombies if it's available, and not broke down...

And yeah, I am dead (lol) serious, if I can't use the vehicle that I spent hours of real life time EARNING, as part of my toolkit, then what is the point of having it?

Part of a "hypothetical story mode".....

You mean like being not brain dead and parking it somewhere close by, with the keys in the ignition and full of gas????

I mean, really. If that's your best argument you had better just quit now.

I get to use it all the other times, and run zoms down with it, as it is built to do. But because it's a horde, now it's a conditional god mode cheat??? git outta here.

And btw, I ain't even talking about my horde battle.

I did use the OP weapon in my hand, till I ran it dry, then plan B went into effect, which I wouldn't have used at all if I hadn't fell in the first place.

And somehow I don't feel like TFP not using the basic functions of their game the way they should be used, shouldn't be my problem.

 

Yes, at higher difficultly levels, there shouldn't be ammo and food laying around, and maybe demo's and vulture missiles should be a thing.

But forcing me to play a specific way, and then changing the rules when I figure out a better way to play ain't cool.

Uh, yeah.. NOT a weak PC btw.. I7 7700k (unlocked) Overclocked and water cooled.. Two GTX 1080 Ti's overclocked and also water cooled, running in SLI mode. Game installed on a Samsung Pro nvme 1tb m.2 drive. with 64GB of DDR4 3600mhz ram..

It's piss poor game optimization..

 

We play a fantasy game and there are fantasy creatures that attack your car if you use it. That is legit for fantasy creatures. Who has ever talked about taking that realistic car away from you?  If I remember correctly you were complaining about fantasy creatures attacking your car, right? 😉

 

The goal is that there is no in-game method on horde night that is effortless. You can drive around with a car, get used to zombies seriously attacking your car. You dig a hole, zombies try to dig to you. You build a horde base, zombies try to tear it down. Maybe in the future there will even be a hotel you can use, but it costs you a lot of money (just a plan TFP talked about that might or might not be developed eventually).

 

Changing the rules is part of the deal of Early Access. TFP (and other EA developers) continually change them while developing the game and looking for the right mix. If you don't want that, wait for the release of the game.

 

You play an SLI setup. I hear about problems with SLI even in AAA games, you could try to turn SLI off as an experiment. Strangely a lot of high-end PCs seem to have low FPS with A19 while middle-class machines have no problems at all, even on horde night. One of the likely culprits could be shadows IMHO, try to turn them down on horde night, maybe it works better then.

 

[Demandred1957]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

We play a fantasy game and there are fantasy creatures that attack your car if you use it. That is legit for fantasy creatures. Who has ever talked about taking that realistic car away from you?

But that's exactly what happens.. Have you watched Vedui's video?

And every fantasy monster has it's counter.

Vampires..Garlic, running water, sunlight, crosses.

Werewolves..Silver in any form.

Zombies...

The Weaknesses of Zombies are head, objects like doorknobs, fences, stairs, etc. For normal zombies UV light. For extraordinary zombies electricity.

 

TFP's get some of the weaknesses right, Light daytime speed (because of UV?) and doorknobs..(for now) And electricity, but everything else is just broken.. Swimming Zombies??? Really?!? I know alot of LIVING people that can't swim FFS..

You can argue it's this, it's that, it's not supposed to be avoidable..Fine

But do it in a legit and fair way.

Even (and especially) little children know when something is fair or not.

And having things swarm your top 3 vehicles like they do in Vedui's video is completely not fair.

The bicycle? sure thing, totally legit. It's slow AF and powered by YOU.

The minibike? Umm, maybe..But will give it a pass, cause they are kinda slow, and not powerful.

The gyro-coptor? maybe when it's running up for takeoff, but after that hell no.

But the V8 powered motorcycle, and 4x4?? gtfo of here.

Someone suggested a debuff, that I think is fair and balanced (and as a paying customer my opinion counts..) have a chance for a breakdown of the vehicles.

The horde goes south (or you are just trying to avoid it) you run to one of the top 3 vehicles climb in and *click* nothing happens because it has degraded through lack of maintenance, or a RNG breakdown, and you are screwed.

Fair. Balanced. Believable..

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Changing the rules is part of the deal of Early Access. TFP (and other EA developers) continually change them while developing the game and looking for the right mix. If you don't want that, wait for the release of the game.

And BTW, without checking to be absolutely sure, I think 7D2D has the record for being in Alpha the longest of any modern game. could be wrong but still.. 2013??? lmao.

For sure it has memes about how long it has been in development..

Makes for a convenient excuse to be changing the rules all the time (because it's early access) lmao.. Go on now..Git!

Edit: there have only been 6 games IN ALL TIME that have been in development longer..Just checked.

[meganoth]

37 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

But that's exactly what happens.. Have you watched Vedui's video?

And every fantasy monster has it's counter.

Vampires..Garlic, running water, sunlight, crosses.

Werewolves..Silver in any form.

Zombies...

The Weaknesses of Zombies are head, objects like doorknobs, fences, stairs, etc. For normal zombies UV light. For extraordinary zombies electricity.

 

TFP's get some of the weaknesses right, Light daytime speed (because of UV?) and doorknobs..(for now) And electricity, but everything else is just broken.. Swimming Zombies??? Really?!? I know alot of LIVING people that can't swim FFS..

You can argue it's this, it's that, it's not supposed to be avoidable..Fine

But do it in a legit and fair way.

Even (and especially) little children know when something is fair or not.

And having things swarm your top 3 vehicles like they do in Vedui's video is completely not fair.

The bicycle? sure thing, totally legit. It's slow AF and powered by YOU.

The minibike? Umm, maybe..But will give it a pass, cause they are kinda slow, and not powerful.

The gyro-coptor? maybe when it's running up for takeoff, but after that hell no.

But the V8 powered motorcycle, and 4x4?? gtfo of here.

Someone suggested a debuff, that I think is fair and balanced (and as a paying customer my opinion counts..) have a chance for a breakdown of the vehicles.

The horde goes south (or you are just trying to avoid it) you run to one of the top 3 vehicles climb in and *click* nothing happens because it has degraded through lack of maintenance, or a RNG breakdown, and you are screwed.

Fair. Balanced. Believable..

 

Looked at the video. Very funny.

 

Sadly he never tried to get off the bike before there were too many and shoot them down, then drive off again. Just driving straight did not keep him safe and that is a good thing. Gameplay and fun is more important to the developers than realism. 7D2D is NOT a simulation, if you want to play one you need to look for a different game.

 

Maybe one could make a racing circuit with a few shotgun or SMG turrets along the way to shoot off the birds. And gates with electrical fences just slightly above the car to grill the birds and slow them down. I think I'll have to try this, might be lots of fun. Would certainly be one of the biggest and most mobile horde bases ever in existence.

 

By the way, the weakness of the birds, if you are asking, is their low hitpoints, excellent fodder for smg turrets I think.

 

 

 

[Demandred1957]

34 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Sadly he never tried to get off the bike before there were too many and shoot them down, then drive off again. Just driving straight did not keep him safe and that is a good thing. Gameplay and fun is more important to the developers than realism. 7D2D is NOT a simulation, if you want to play one you need to look for a different game.

Wouldn't matter if he got off then killed them or not, they just insta spawn right back in full force.

You know what makes for good game play and fun? Having a challenge you can beat in a fair way if you are smart and good enough.

Never asked for a simulation, just want a balanced challenge without stupid game breaking mechanics.

They got their name on point though, cause they are pimping fun out on the street corner with a black eye with some of this stuff.

And your racetrack idea would be a exploit btw...jus saying.

[meganoth]

31 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Wouldn't matter if he got off then killed them or not, they just insta spawn right back in full force.

You know what makes for good game play and fun? Having a challenge you can beat in a fair way if you are smart and good enough.

Never asked for a simulation, just want a balanced challenge without stupid game breaking mechanics.

They got their name on point though, cause they are pimping fun out on the street corner with a black eye with some of this stuff.

And your racetrack idea would be a exploit btw...jus saying.

How do you know they insta spawn? In the video it took some time until the birds had their full force back.

 

Well, I assumed you had beat the challenge with your horde base just good (with the small nitpick of having no horde night entrance). But then made a small mistake and fell down. But now you want to be safe and dandy even if you make a mistake. Where is the challenge then? How is it fair that the horde can't even get you when you fall down?

 

My racetrack idea is not an exploit. In no way am I making use of any glitches or faulty AI behaviour. It is smart and I'm rather proud of having thought it up, if I may brag a little. 😇

 

PS: In one of the previous post I see that I sloppily called driving with the 4x4 on horde night an exploit. Which strictly speaking isn't correct. It is an OP strategy, one that should not be possible, but not an exploit.

[Demandred1957]

26 minutes ago, meganoth said:

How do you know they insta spawn? In the video it took some time until the birds had their full force back.

 

Well, I assumed you had beat the challenge with your horde base just good (with the small nitpick of having no horde night entrance). But then made a small mistake and fell down. But now you want to be safe and dandy even if you make a mistake. Where is the challenge then? How is it fair that the horde can't even get you when you fall down?

 

My racetrack idea is not an exploit. In no way am I making use of any glitches or faulty AI behaviour. It is smart and I'm rather proud of having thought it up, if I may brag a little. 😇

 

PS: In one of the previous post I see that I sloppily called driving with the 4x4 on horde night an exploit. Which strictly speaking isn't correct. It is an OP strategy, one that should not be possible, but not an exploit.

Some time?? like 5 seconds dude..

And no, you are putting words in my mouth. If I am dumb, and don't have a top tier vehicle nearby, to make a frantic puss boy escape in if i fall into the midst of them... then that's tough titty for me.

like someone was saying (I forget who) that they had died because they had left their first aid at home... And I'm like yeah? So?

Because I ALWAYS have first aid on me.. It's called planning..

Reason I survived my f'up is because I PLANNED AHEAD... I parked the 4x4 there for a reason..

 

And yes, it is a exploit. You are keeping them from killing you, just like driving away in the first place...

If I can't drive away, you can't have electric wires and turrets keeping you alive while you are driving, because it shouldn't be possible...lmao

You have to stand your ground and fight from a tower defense or it's a exploit that shouldn't be allowed..

See how that works?? You think of a idea to keep you alive, and someone takes it away.

Now give me credit on that point, cause you know i'm right.

 

And besides that, Glock9 who IMHO is one of the best 7D2D players around, did exactly the same thing I did when one of his hordes went south.. In fact I have seen him do it multiple times..

[meganoth]

2 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Some time?? like 5 seconds dude..

And no, you are putting words in my mouth. If I am dumb, and don't have a top tier vehicle nearby, to make a frantic puss boy escape in if i fall into the midst of them... then that's tough titty for me.

like someone was saying (I forget who) that they had died because they had left their first aid at home... And I'm like yeah? So?

Because I ALWAYS have first aid on me.. It's called planning..

Reason I survived my f'up is because I PLANNED AHEAD... I parked the 4x4 there for a reason..

 

And yes, it is a exploit. You are keeping them from killing you, just like driving away in the first place...

If I can't drive away, you can't have electric wires and turrets keeping you alive while you are driving, because it shouldn't be possible...lmao

You have to stand your ground and fight from a tower defense or it's a exploit that shouldn't be allowed..

See how that works?? You think of a idea to keep you alive, and someone takes it away.

Now give me credit on that point, cause you know i'm right.

 

And besides that, Glock9 who IMHO is one of the best 7D2D players around, did exactly the same thing I did when one of his hordes went south.. In fact I have seen him do it multiple times..

If you mention numbers, at least make sure they are correct, dude. In the video at 5:19 the first bird arrives and it took until maybe about 5:38 for the full group of birds to arrive. Notice that at this moment, after 19 seconds, he has just lost 4 measly hitpoints. It takes until 5:49 before he really gets into trouble and loses massively HP.

 

I don't know which words I put into your mouth. I see it as a mistake to fall down. It is also my opinion that using the 4x4 ín A18 and before was just too safe, whether you use it the whole night or as a whimpy escape vehicle. Where is the need to build a horde base if you instead can just drive around and be totally safe? Where is the danger? Where is the effort? Where is the smallest difficulty in driving around if the hordes can't reach or attack you?

 

I'll try to explain the difference between 4x4 (in A18) and my race track idea:

You could drive the vehicle with absolutely no danger, no effort and no ammo consumption and avoid the horde.

The race track idea likely needs at least 3-5 stations on the track with traps and turrets. So you need to build the stations, make a racetrack you can follow in the night and remove obstacles. That is the effort. The danger might be if you lose orientation and need more than 20 seconds to get to the next station. I don't know, has to be tested. And you have ammo consumption to feed all those SMG turrets.

 

The thing is, if building this track should proove too easy and the danger trivial (i.e. my idea works too good) TFP may balance further to make this race track not work anymore. But my interest in this idea is only there if it isn't too easy anyway, so I'm perfectly fine with that idea getting patched away or as you call it "taken away".

 

I don't really care what Glock9 does, and I already mentioned that I don't care if you drove away on horde night in your recent game. I don't care whether you turn on god mode in the future or mod A19 so that you still can drive away in your car free from vultures. I care that the vanilla unmodded game is eventually balanced so that all the options on horde night have advantages and disadvantages. I want those vultures to attack vehicles.

 

[Demandred1957]

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

If you mention numbers, at least make sure they are correct, dude. In the video at 5:19 the first bird arrives and it took until maybe about 5:38 for the full group of birds to arrive. Notice that at this moment, after 19 seconds, he has just lost 4 measly hitpoints. It takes until 5:49 before he really gets into trouble and loses massively HP.

 

I don't know which words I put into your mouth. I see it as a mistake to fall down. It is also my opinion that using the 4x4 ín A18 and before was just too safe, whether you use it the whole night or as a whimpy escape vehicle. Where is the need to build a horde base if you instead can just drive around and be totally safe? Where is the danger? Where is the effort? Where is the smallest difficulty in driving around if the hordes can't reach or attack you?

 

I'll try to explain the difference between 4x4 (in A18) and my race track idea:

You could drive the vehicle with absolutely no danger, no effort and no ammo consumption and avoid the horde.

The race track idea likely needs at least 3-5 stations on the track with traps and turrets. So you need to build the stations, make a racetrack you can follow in the night and remove obstacles. That is the effort. The danger might be if you lose orientation and need more than 20 seconds to get to the next station. I don't know, has to be tested. And you have ammo consumption to feed all those SMG turrets.

 

The thing is, if building this track should proove too easy and the danger trivial (i.e. my idea works too good) TFP may balance further to make this race track not work anymore. But my interest in this idea is only there if it isn't too easy anyway, so I'm perfectly fine with that idea getting patched away or as you call it "taken away".

 

I don't really care what Glock9 does, and I already mentioned that I don't care if you drove away on horde night in your recent game. I don't care whether you turn on god mode in the future or mod A19 so that you still can drive away in your car free from vultures. I care that the vanilla unmodded game is eventually balanced so that all the options on horde night have advantages and disadvantages. I want those vultures to attack vehicles.

 

Because it's so balanced to have a flock of 2 lb birds flip and destroy a two ton 4x4 right?? lol..

And ok, explain in stupid detail,  how using your exploit is any different than just using the vehicle that I had to grind away for hours to get?

What you are really saying is you want to stand and die in unmodded game when you cut all the bluster out.

You can't use anything to help you survive, you cant run away, you just have to stand there and take it.. that  IS the direction they are headed, which was the point of me posting that guys comment.

There are going to be NO options with advantages on horde nights the way it's going. Just like that guy said.

[meganoth]

3 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Because it's so balanced to have a flock of 2 lb birds flip and destroy a two ton 4x4 right?? lol..

And ok, explain in stupid detail,  how using your exploit is any different than just using the vehicle that I had to grind away for hours to get?

What you are really saying is you want to stand and die in unmodded game when you cut all the bluster out.

You can't use anything to help you survive, you cant run away, you just have to stand there and take it.. that  IS the direction they are headed, which was the point of me posting that guys comment.

There are going to be NO options with advantages on horde nights the way it's going. Just like that guy said.

Whats up with this unneccessary drama? You will always be able to build a horde base to defend against the horde. It is one of the pillars of the game. And there are even ways to fight in the street or use POIs.

 

Yes you need to build the car once. But you are supposed to want the vehicles for driving to other places anyway so it isn't really an effort just for horde night. And besides a trivial amount of gas there are absolutely no recurring costs. The race track will likely cost the same material as a small horde base for the stations AND will cost regularily a few stacks of 9mm or shotgun ammo.

 

Again, we are talking just about an idea at the moment. It might not work and get whoever tries it killed or it might work too good. THAT is the fun part, trying it out, and if it fails trying to improve it. 

 

 

[JaxTeller718]

On 7/11/2020 at 3:37 PM, RestInPieces said:

If you are going to avoid the horde you can disable it instead. If you want to make it rarer there is an option for that too.

If you can just bail anytime you feel like, there is no reason for the horde to even spawn. Or for all of these defenses, traps etc, to exist. It's supposed to be an event that threatens you, not just a few optional targets for you to shoot at.

Shh dont tell them they have options. They dont like that. They will play on default dammit and if they dont like it it will just have to change for them.

 

Before you massacre me for my attitude, sorry but there are options. To do all of what you want to do. Youre saying you want to play default. But you dont. And thats ok. No one will belittle you for it.

 

Same goes for hardcore players who play on default and then say its easy. Turn it up. Mod it. Dont be afraid. 

 

Edit - Wasnt referring to you Rest just so you know lol

[Laz Man]

3 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

Wouldn't matter if he got off then killed them or not, they just insta spawn right back in full force.

You know what makes for good game play and fun? Having a challenge you can beat in a fair way if you are smart and good enough.

Never asked for a simulation, just want a balanced challenge without stupid game breaking mechanics.

They got their name on point though, cause they are pimping fun out on the street corner with a black eye with some of this stuff.

And your racetrack idea would be a exploit btw...jus saying.

How about you try it out before getting so worried about it?  All this drama over what you saw in someones video doesnt give you any creditability in my book.

 

I know it's hard to accept but it's a gameplay change as it was never intended for players to use their vehicles to have complete immunity from the blood moon event regardless how "realistic" it would be to do so otherwise.

 

As far as insta spawn concerns.  The entire blood moon event is insta spawn GPS zombies so not sure why that is any different to you lol...

 

Mega said it best, if a certain strategy requires little effort from the player to over come a challenge, it's probably not working as designed and the devs will probably adjust it.

 

I sincerely hope you find your happy place with the game otherwise you should move on or take a break as it's just causing you unnecessary heartache...

[Damocles]

The zombies should also attack any vehicle parked outside and easy to reach.

No more slacking with the safe parking.

[Laz Man]

8 minutes ago, Damocles said:

The zombies should also attack any vehicle parked outside and easy to reach.

No more slacking with the safe parking.

Madmole doesnt have that issue...

...because he blows his up with dart traps right before the blood moon lol...

[Ralathar44]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:50 PM, Demandred1957 said:

No kidding.. But the base game shouldn't be so hard as to need to turn the default settings down. You masochist expert players are all like "git gud noob" that is so b.s. The should keep the settings to make it insane like that on the far end of the difficulty slider. There is a concept called good sportsmanship. TFP need to look that up in the dictionary. On default settings, I should have a good chance of surviving for a long time, as long as I play smart and am careful. This crap they introduced of insta spawning vultures that can stop a two ton 4x4 truck and destroy it is totally unbalanced and broken. If a newer player has a horde go bad, of course they are going to try and bail. It would be the only smart thing to do. But no, TFP have to CHEAT, and fire vulture missiles at you just to satisfy their sense of pride. Just because it's called 7 days to die, doesn't mean it has to be so broken. Like the guy said, at this rate they are going to have ghost zombie snakes that you can't touch that come in a kill you regardless of what you do. Better yet, why don't they just code it so you start with an infection you can't cure, and just make you die on the morning of the 8th day. Cut to the chase and all.

So take your lumps, make your mistakes, and get better.  I did not get to be an "masochist expert player" via osmosis.  I learned 1 death at a time.  I've died ALOT to get where I am in terms of 7DTD skill today.  Makings mistakes is how you identify issues and improve.  If you don't like that then turn down the difficulty or turn off horde night.  Though IMO the default difficulty with 8 zombie hordes is something that any somewhat decent player should be able to handle.  I'm tackling 32/64 zombies at a time on the next difficulty up from default without issue.  8 zombies at a time 1 difficulty down isn't just easier, it's exponentially easier. 

I've done a variety of base design, from bunker bases to catwalks to mazing and etc.  I convert POIs into bases primarily these days because I've gotten so experienced at building my own bases that even eccentric ideas tend to work quite well.  I also have a strict "no repair until after the horde night is over" rule as well as a limit on how many molotovs/explosives I'm allowed to use since they are ridiculously overpowered on anything but the highest difficulties. 

Here's an example of a simple bunker base with a death room that'll see you all the way to Demo zombies late game. Other weapons are actually stronger in that setup than turrets due to superior piercing, range, aim, etc.  So you can run that kind of base with any skill/weapon focus.  Though the new turret AP ammo helps them be more competitive in A19 now.

I'm sorry but "git gud" actually does apply here.  I'm not setting a high bar.  Default difficulty with 8 zombies at a time is entry level.  "Masochist expert players" are on higher difficulties with more zombies at a time.  Time to stop complaining and start learning instead or you'll plateau and stop improving. 

[Ralathar44]

People will complain about every exploit that robs them of a riskless horde night.  Water Bases, Underground bases, vehicles, etc.  Ideally TFP would be able to code/implement such things in a way that is not exploitable but still allows you to use those strategies.  Unfortunately the reality of such implementations is not so idealistic both in terms of time/resource cost and in terms of the ability to achieve the prevention of exploits while still allowing people the headcannon usage of the ideas they are attached to.

Personally I'd love if zombified version of the worms from the movie Tremors spawned on horde nights if you tried to run with a vehicle and they flipped you and did significant damage (or destroyed) the vehicle.  That would be thematic and would solve your complaint in a "lore" friendly way.  "Unsportsmanlike" would no longer apply (not that it ever did in the first place) because it's properly justified within the game world.  But such an implementation would take a significant amount of time and resources to develop.  I'm sure TFP would love to make more complicated solutions if they hand an unlimited workforce and resources, but you have to make hard time/resource management choices in games....that's their job.  And part of our jobs as gamers is understanding the harsh realities and limitations they work within.  We may not always agree with their choices, but I think steam charts show pretty clearly that they've done right by this game since the numbers keep growing...which is impressive for a PVE game like this 7+ years in.

[Roland]

If you build underground highways it seems like you would be able to drive around on horde night. 
 

hmmmmmm I wonder if you just built a circular course with turrets spaced along it or a full canopy over the road...

13 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

We may not always agree with their choices, but I think steam charts show pretty clearly that they've done right by this game since the numbers keep growing...which is impressive for a PVE game like this 7+ years in.

The problem is that when people who are unhappy with the changes see that, they just assume that most of those people are either unhappily playing or are playing Alpha 16....

 

They will never believe they aren’t part of the majority. 

[Laz Man]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

If you build underground highways it seems like you would be able to drive around on horde night. 
 

hmmmmmm I wonder if you just built a circular course with turrets spaced along it or a full canopy over the road...

That actually sounds fun.  Something I have been meaning to try but just have never gotten to it is a turret obstacle course.  Run to zone one, defend with robo turrets/auto turrets.....then move to zone 2....zone 3...back to zone 1.  Could be a lot of fun if done right.

 

Edit:  Wish we could slide down slopes, would be the next best things to zip lines.  Start at zone 1 at top of a tower....slide down to zone 2....zone 3.....etc.

 

@wolfbain5 started a mobile blood moon defense back in A18 which was pretty cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIb-vIHLtUk

 

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

That actually sounds fun.  Something I have been meaning to try but just have never gotten to it is a turret obstacle course.  Run to zone one, defend with robo turrets/auto turrets.....then move to zone 2....zone 3...back to zone 1.  Could be a lot of fun if done right.

 

Edit:  Wish we could slide down slopes, would be the next best things to zip lines.  Start at zone 1 at top of a tower....slide down to zone 2....zone 3.....etc.

Right?  Way more fun than just assuming that driving on horde night is now impossible. Doing it like it used to be able to be done...maybe. But with adaptation and creativity never say never. 

[Roland]

8 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

For sure it has memes about how long it has been in development..

Oh the horror!  What the hell have we done taking so long that memes have resulted. In light of that I wish like you that the game had just released in May of 2014 looking like Quake and half of what the console version ended up with in terms of content. 
 

Nobody would still be playing it by now but at least we would have avoided meme status....

[Roland]

In reading back I see that Mega thought of the same possible solution as I did. Great minds. 
 

Every update there have been those who just rant that certain things are now impossible and then there are those who find the solutions.
 

Then the rest of us copy those second guys when they make videos....

[manni44]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

In reading back I see that Mega thought of the same possible solution as I did. Great minds. 
 

Every update there have been those who just rant that certain things are now impossible and then there are those who find the solutions.
 

Then the rest of us copy those second guys when they make videos....

and in the next update those things will be nerfed, removed too  thats called Development 

[Roland]

Not everything gets removed. We can still build bases and defend existing POIs by reinforcing them. I can’t see how they could take away building a long “base” built like a track (possibly covered or underground) with zones set up for temporary defense. Maybe they might but there seems to be a clear pattern to things they have nerfed.

 

But if they do then I want to give the strategy a go while it works. That’s the fun of early access. We are going to be able to have fond memories of play styles and strategies that future players will never ever see or try.