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Open Letter to TFP's...


Demandred1957

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5 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Lol...that was a long @%$*#! breather.....

 

....I'm sorry Demandred, but your going to have to learn to adapt to the change.  What's OP as hell is driving around for hours in relative safety for the majority of the event.  It's not about whether its realistic or not, the blood moon is a nut check gameplay event which you either survive or die. 

 

Imo you lost that blood moon as soon as you drove off in the sunset.  Your only fooling yourself if you think that was a breather...and you won...

 

As far as running around on foot and surviving a blood moon...guys do it all the time now even when there are demolishers.  Stop by the image and video sub forums and check out some of the videos there if you dont believe me...

 

Edit: another few words of advice, try not to overthink/over analyze what you see in videos until you experience it yourself.  Why worry over something that hasnt even happened to you yet?  Just try enjoying the game in the moment and take on each change as a new survival challenge...

 

...hell I died 2 a dire wolf in the latest build which hasnt happen to me in ages.  If they leave it like that I'll just adapt and figure out a new way to survive.

Maybe check the in game time when I fell eh? How did you get hours out of like less than 30 mins of in game time, which was like 2 mins real world time? And you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I DID win, because I used the tools and resources available to me to do so, simple as that.

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3 hours ago, Roland said:

I sent Madmole a link to Vedui's video posted on the original post about the vultures and asked whether it was too much in his opinion.

 

He said, "They seem to be working as intended."

 

 

Well of course he did. That's the attitude behind the problem, which was the reason I posted that other persons comment/letter.  Other people are talking about all the nerfs, and how the zoms are just getting to be too much even for a zombie horde game. There comes a point when it feels like the dev's are cheating, and when I saw Vedui's very through test video, that was the feeling I got instantly.  Or lacking in sportsmanship, same thing. Feels exactly like how when you play a game against a 5 yo in a game they made up, and they start making up new ridiculous rules when they start losing. It's their game sure fine, and I already bought it, but if I didn't already own it and I came across that video beforehand, I would reconsider buying it in the first place...

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18 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

 

yeah, lets see you try and outrun a high level horde on foot..Video or it didn't happen. And I didn't say I can't make a good base. I made a base without cheese that took the day 126 horde. But I did have a moment where I fell through a hole, and had to run them down in the 4x4 for a minute, before getting back in my base. Now that would be game over man. And they should make it insane hard with the slider, just for people like you. It sours the experience when you have to turn it down from default. I like to play on default settings for the most part, and I expect to survive for a long time as long as I play smart and careful.

If you dont wear armor or only cloth armor + jacket speed boost its really easy. coffee helps too

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9 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

ummm watch the video yourself.. 20:59 is the exact moment I fell, and you tell me how you would survive??

 

The video really doesn't answer why you didn't get back into the horde base. I assume because you can't. You also don't have a fallback position which would be an alternative. In that case why shouldn't you be punished for such an obvious oversight?

 

I sometimes forgot to replenish bandages or healing kits when going out. And sometimes that has cost me my life. I didn't ask TFP to please make bleeding stop at 10 HPs. It was my own fault.

 

Because you see the development of the game you get the impression that TFP is somehow always removing the best strategy you had for surviving. That isn't surprising as overpowered godlike strategies are always the best ones. But overpowered godlike strategies have no place in a game where you need to always be in danger.

 

Next time build a zombie-safe entrance to your base and maybe even add a fallback position in case your base is overrun. Some zombie breaks a block that allows other zombies standing on it and somehow they get on your top level. If you want to be prepared for that case you have to have a fallback position even if that position is only able to function once. I just use cleared POIs for that case. The zombies will probably flatten that POI but it will save my neck for that night.

 

As you can see there are solutions to your problem that are not overpowered and 100% safe but give you a very good chance to survive. Try them out, I am 100% sure both will still work when the game goes gold.

 

 

 

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Totally agree with Meganoth. I just finished my day 14 horde & got my azz handed to me. 

Had a few week spots I forgot to reinforce in my base however when I escaped due to them breaking in, vultures had my go nads for lunch! 

 

I loved every minute of it & realized where I went wrong.

That's all you gotta do man, see where sh*t went south & improve on it. 

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sometimes i dont know what the problem of others is...

they use mechanics to trick the zombies, like doors to block them or this ramps...

this is a hard survival game with horde and crafting (the title says it) (animals when u see it, u can escape...or wait 2min then the animal will go away)

its not so hard to build a base...u will learn how it works (u must try 1,2,3,times)...for my game now at day 40 im at the water tower (i v not enough material to build my own)

in my other game, i build a cheat free zombie base and it works fine... (ok the first run i made an error, but the second iv made the error gone and it works) we had 1000zombies (warrior, 64zombies, 120min day)

 

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4 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

Maybe check the in game time when I fell eh? How did you get hours out of like less than 30 mins of in game time, which was like 2 mins real world time? And you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I DID win, because I used the tools and resources available to me to do so, simple as that.

Yep, now you can figure out how to win with the new set of tools that you have available to you in A19.  Be prepared for the "rules" to keep changing until the game is out of Alpha.

 

It's not unsportsmanlike to change rules to an unfinished game.

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2 hours ago, meganoth said:

The video really doesn't answer why you didn't get back into the horde base. I assume because you can't. You also don't have a fallback position which would be an alternative. In that case why shouldn't you be punished for such an obvious oversight?

 

I sometimes forgot to replenish bandages or healing kits when going out. And sometimes that has cost me my life. I didn't ask TFP to please make bleeding stop at 10 HPs. It was my own fault.

 

Because you see the development of the game you get the impression that TFP is somehow always removing the best strategy you had for surviving. That isn't surprising as overpowered godlike strategies are always the best ones. But overpowered godlike strategies have no place in a game where you need to always be in danger.

 

Next time build a zombie-safe entrance to your base and maybe even add a fallback position in case your base is overrun. Some zombie breaks a block that allows other zombies standing on it and somehow they get on your top level. If you want to be prepared for that case you have to have a fallback position even if that position is only able to function once. I just use cleared POIs for that case. The zombies will probably flatten that POI but it will save my neck for that night.

 

As you can see there are solutions to your problem that are not overpowered and 100% safe but give you a very good chance to survive. Try them out, I am 100% sure both will still work when the game goes gold.

 

 

 

Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

 

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

 

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

 

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

 

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.

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14 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

 

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

 

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

 

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

 

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.

Not really, I dont think check boxes and knobs for every aspect of the game is a good thing.

 

Doing so would make it extremely difficult to create any sense of balance/progression.

 

I suppose if the game was just an open world sandbox with just a bunch of toys for players to use that might work...who knows, they may add such settings as they get closer to gold.

 

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29 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

 

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

 

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

 

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

 

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.

I'm not talking as a mod, this is just my personal opinion. First of all I think that TFP doesn't really use the difficulty setting to best effect yet, there should for example be automatically less food and ammo available at higher difficulties. But running away in a car, that would only be an option in a hypothetical story mode, which isn't going to happen in this game without much story.

 

TFP did deliberately remove the strategy of bailing with a 4x4 on horde night, I didn't want to say otherwise. I'm saying that you can't call that a legitimate strategy, it is an exploit, a god mode escape option. Similar to turning on debug mode whenever you feel endangered. 

 

Why are vehicles in the game? Are you seriously asking that? 🤔

 

If weapons are more OP than vehicles then why did you have to use a 4x4 on the horde night, you had weapons in your hand? 😉

 

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25 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I'm not talking as a mod, this is just my personal opinion. First of all I think that TFP doesn't really use the difficulty setting to best effect yet, there should for example be automatically less food and ammo available at higher difficulties. But running away in a car, that would only be an option in a hypothetical story mode, which isn't going to happen in this game without much story.

 

TFP did deliberately remove the strategy of bailing with a 4x4 on horde night, I didn't want to say otherwise. I'm saying that you can't call that a legitimate strategy, it is an exploit, a god mode escape option. Similar to turning on debug mode whenever you feel endangered. 

 

Why are vehicles in the game? Are you seriously asking that? 🤔

 

If weapons are more OP than vehicles then why did you have to use a 4x4 on the horde night, you had weapons in your hand? 😉

 

Honestly if FPS is as bad as he mentioned...probably why the vehicle is there as there probably be no other way for him to survive on foot...

 

...it always amazes me when I see someone trying to do a horde night with choppy FPS.  Sucks all the fun out of the game.  Not everyone can afford a better PC or upgrades tho so probably just trying to make the most out of it.

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12 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Honestly if FPS is as bad as he mentioned...probably why the vehicle is there as there probably be no other way for him to survive on foot...

 

...it always amazes me when I see someone trying to do a horde night with choppy FPS.  Sucks all the fun out of the game.  Not everyone can afford a better PC or upgrades tho so probably just trying to make the most out of it.

TFP can't balance the game for low FPS though.

 

I don't say Demandred shouldn't have used the 4x4. His game, he can do whatever he likes, including turning on god mode. This discussion is about what TFP should allow in the game, and allowing exploits because some people play on a weak PC? That would be a silly concept.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, meganoth said:

TFP can't balance the game for low FPS though.

 

I don't say Demandred shouldn't have used the 4x4. His game, he can do whatever he likes, including turning on god mode. This discussion is about what TFP should allow in the game, and allowing exploits because some people play on a weak PC? That would be a silly concept.

 

 

Agreed, was just pointing that out for context.

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4 minutes ago, Boidster said:

I endorse this mindset.

Too each their own.  As long as people dont get too attached to any given quirky strategy.  If they cant handle that they shouldnt be playing early access games imo...

 

 

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1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

As long as people dont get too attached to any given quirky strategy.  If they cant handle that they shouldnt be playing early access games

I endorse this viewpoint.

 

(My reply to OP was meant to cut through all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about "vulture missiles". He used the resources he had to survive. Therefore, win. That is a good mindset and he should embrace it more fully, to include using different resources as situations change.)

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2 hours ago, meganoth said:

I'm not talking as a mod, this is just my personal opinion. First of all I think that TFP doesn't really use the difficulty setting to best effect yet, there should for example be automatically less food and ammo available at higher difficulties. But running away in a car, that would only be an option in a hypothetical story mode, which isn't going to happen in this game without much story.

 

TFP did deliberately remove the strategy of bailing with a 4x4 on horde night, I didn't want to say otherwise. I'm saying that you can't call that a legitimate strategy, it is an exploit, a god mode escape option. Similar to turning on debug mode whenever you feel endangered. 

 

Why are vehicles in the game? Are you seriously asking that? 🤔

 

If weapons are more OP than vehicles then why did you have to use a 4x4 on the horde night, you had weapons in your hand? 😉

 

I can't call that a legitimate strategy??? Seriously? A plan to use a two ton 4 wheel drive vehicle to plow my way through some dead, 200 lb walking (running) corpses???

This game wouldn't exist without zombie movies, and the walking dead tv show, and guess what?

That's always been a legit way to get away from zombies if it's available, and not broke down...

And yeah, I am dead (lol) serious, if I can't use the vehicle that I spent hours of real life time EARNING, as part of my toolkit, then what is the point of having it?

Part of a "hypothetical story mode".....

You mean like being not brain dead and parking it somewhere close by, with the keys in the ignition and full of gas????

I mean, really. If that's your best argument you had better just quit now.

I get to use it all the other times, and run zoms down with it, as it is built to do. But because it's a horde, now it's a conditional god mode cheat??? git outta here.

And btw, I ain't even talking about my horde battle.

I did use the OP weapon in my hand, till I ran it dry, then plan B went into effect, which I wouldn't have used at all if I hadn't fell in the first place.

And somehow I don't feel like TFP not using the basic functions of their game the way they should be used, shouldn't be my problem.

 

Yes, at higher difficultly levels, there shouldn't be ammo and food laying around, and maybe demo's and vulture missiles should be a thing.

But forcing me to play a specific way, and then changing the rules when I figure out a better way to play ain't cool.

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

TFP can't balance the game for low FPS though.

 

I don't say Demandred shouldn't have used the 4x4. His game, he can do whatever he likes, including turning on god mode. This discussion is about what TFP should allow in the game, and allowing exploits because some people play on a weak PC? That would be a silly concept.

 

 

Uh, yeah.. NOT a weak PC btw.. I7 7700k (unlocked) Overclocked and water cooled.. Two GTX 1080 Ti's overclocked and also water cooled, running in SLI mode. Game installed on a Samsung Pro nvme 1tb m.2 drive. with 64GB of DDR4 3600mhz ram..

It's piss poor game optimization..

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2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Not really, I dont think check boxes and knobs for every aspect of the game is a good thing.

 

Doing so would make it extremely difficult to create any sense of balance/progression.

 

I suppose if the game was just an open world sandbox with just a bunch of toys for players to use that might work...who knows, they may add such settings as they get closer to gold.

 

It's billed as a open world sandbox...With zombies.. And that's all it should be. Now i'm being forced to play in my sand box the way some dictator on high says I should be playing..

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ok perhaps..u try a lower difficult

 

in my first game at 7days...iv died 250times (ca. 100x for placing spikes 100x in buildungs 50x falling down)

the game IS HARD at the start...when u dont have a good weapon like a hammer or something u will die..u must have attention and open eyes everywhere

 

when ur fps drops = lower settings (f8 for fps seeing in game)

 

"You masochist expert players are all like "git gud noob"" no sir..everybody started little and then grow up

when the game is 2 hard for u, there are a lot of difficults u can choose (iv startet at normal and zombies walking all time) that was good to learn

 

driving/killing with car or motorbike seems 2 easy...i dont think thats the style of 7days

 

"""""Uh, yeah.. NOT a weak PC btw.. I7 7700k (unlocked) Overclocked and water cooled.. Two GTX 1080 Ti's overclocked and also water cooled, running in SLI mode. Game installed on a Samsung Pro nvme 1tb m.2 drive. with 64GB of DDR4 3600mhz ram..

It's piss poor game optimization..""""

this is not ubisoft or ea.. they have a budget from milion dollars..and the game cost 70euro..this game is avaible from 6-21euo...and from this >what the game is, its superb

???? > i play on fx8370 16gb ram ssd an xt 5700 xt oc and its full 25-40 fps in 4k mode ultra plus

whats ur fps rate in the game???

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6 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

It's billed as a open world sandbox...With zombies.. And that's all it should be. Now i'm being forced to play in my sand box the way some dictator on high says I should be playing..

...and a tower defense rpg...dont forget about that part too...😅

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1 minute ago, Noctoras said:

I generally like that exploits are adressed. 

 

On the other hand demolishers almost require exploits / specific mono base designs, so they are a flaw in this concept in my opinion. But that's sufficiently discussed elsewhere

Mmm, maybe.. I mean honestly, one mans "exploit" is another mans only chance for survival.

Not saying that I have to use vehicles to survive all the time, because I don't.

But to take that option away, just because the devs don't like it is overstepping their bounds.

 

I paid them to give me a fun open world survival game, not dictate to me how i'm supposed to play in it.

But really, is using a 4x4 or motorcycle a "exploit"? I don't think so.

Is using plates in a way that allows you to make your base hover in mid air, and have zoms fall through the "gap" a exploit? prob so.

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2 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Mmm, maybe.. I mean honestly, one mans "exploit" is another mans only chance for survival.

Not saying that I have to use vehicles to survive all the time, because I don't.

But to take that option away, just because the devs don't like it is overstepping their bounds.

 

I paid them to give me a fun open world survival game, not dictate to me how i'm supposed to play in it.

But really, is using a 4x4 or motorcycle a "exploit"? I don't think so.

Is using plates in a way that allows you to make your base hover in mid air, and have zoms fall through the "gap" a exploit? prob so.

I think there is no point in artificially making it impossible. But giving vehicles a (rare) chance for breakdown for instance, why not? 

 

You can go for it, but there is a slim chance for a breakdown. Sounds good to me. It would be lame and artificial, if vehicles only broke down ob horde night for instance. 

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