THIS is the Wedge Tip Replacement in A19!

[blugold1]

I have a tested & confirmed way to still drop zombies, if that's your style.  I have a picture showing the design (4 ramp blocks & 4 pyramid blocks).  The 5 minute video gives a quick walk-through on how to build it (along with a special visit by a zombie bear, lol), and it also shows a completely safe passive base design.  It's a design I've had for quite a while & still works in A19.  

 

 

[Bubbahotetp]

Why thanks, now they're going to remove that too. They don't want you to be safe, so if there is something - keep it to yourself lest you want the devs to "fix" it. The game is not about choice and fun, it's about killing players and their bases.

 

But in all seriousness, I've actually made it easy for myself and just kept playing with bloodmoon off. Becaue if there is one thing I'm incredibly tired off after 4500h ingame, it's the endless base repair and constant hunt for ammo in prep for it. I actually have a job (yes, I'm a grown up) and when I come home to relax I don't want to stress from bloodmoon to bloodmon but just want some easy going things to do while I'm in game. If or when I run out of fun with bloodmon off I'm not going to turn off all the zombies (as some like to suggest, those people probably also like to eat grilled T-bone steaks made out of tofu), I'm just gonna play any other of my 200 games.

 

Once the pimps have abandoned 7D and turned to other projects sharing all ideas will be safe. Until then they are nondesirable exploits.

 

P.S. appreciate the video of course and I might sub to your channel.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Bubbahotetp (see edit history)

[FileMachete]

Interesting @blugold1 wondering, does it have to be pyramids or would other blocks that bump the zeds into the hole work too?

I can see the advantages of the pyramids, more open to shoot, angled sides. Just curious :)

[blugold1]

2 hours ago, FileMachete said:

Interesting @blugold1 wondering, does it have to be pyramids or would other blocks that bump the zeds into the hole work too?

I can see the advantages of the pyramids, more open to shoot, angled sides. Just curious

When I tested, they were the most effective at forcing the zombies in the hole.  However, that was early A18.  I’m sure others would work as well, but I haven’t tested all blocks.  

[Feycat]

Question: how dead ARE wedge tips? We were using them as short bridges so that we could shoot zombies as they pathed toward us, because they would slide down. We weren't using them for drop traps and they never fell more than 8 blocks or so. 

 

Can zombies now run across the tips as if they were full-sized blocks?

[katarynna]

10 minutes ago, Feycat said:

Question: how dead ARE wedge tips? We were using them as short bridges so that we could shoot zombies as they pathed toward us, because they would slide down. We weren't using them for drop traps and they never fell more than 8 blocks or so. 

 

Can zombies now run across the tips as if they were full-sized blocks?

yes they can

[Grolbu]

Ok they can run across them, but can they run UP them ? We've never bothered with drop traps but we always have wedge / wedgetip walls around our crafting bases to stop interruptions when we want to be busy building stuff.  I can find out for myself when I get home, but that won't be for a few hours ...

[katarynna]

On one of the developer streams, when referring to the fix for the wedge tips, they said zombies can run anywhere players can run. So I would assume yes, but let us know when you try it out.

Edited June 30, 2020 by katarynna (see edit history)

[Feycat]

Well, that sucks.

 

Literally every alpha since 8 when we started, we fought the horde. We never ever hid from the horde, the horde is like, half the point of the whole game.

 

Every time we find a base that works to let us ACTIVELY fight the horde, but without leaving us completely vulnerable to be wrecked, the devs screw it up in the next alpha. 

We're not going to run around during the BMH, we need somewhere to stand that lets us be *relatively* safe while we fight. Even when we were using the wedge walkways, we still got spit, vultures, and spider zombies hitting us.  I don't want to build mazes. I don't want to build 8000 dart traps and make zombies walk a gauntlet while we sit unharmed, but THOSE are the bases that somehow the Pimps think are ok. 

Every alpha we end up going back to the totally boring "solid square base with a filled-in bottom, spikes and a bar overhang, and turrets." This is the ONLY base which has continued to work through each and every alpha. 

It's boring. But apparently that's the base they want us to build, unless we want to just make a death chute with dart traps and completely avoid fighting them. 

[Sydious]

"Hey everyone, I just stole a car"  

(waits for consequences) 

[Bubbahotetp]

3 hours ago, Feycat said:

[Everything you just said]
 

Yeah. And when we don't want to play that way we get told "Just turn zombies off". Yeah, nah! There are other games that don't have zombies in it, that are way more fun.

 

What I want is the freedom of choice how to counter a horde - if I want to do so. And if I can do so on the same server as my friends, perfect.

 

Am I bothering anybody if I'm not actively participating in horde night? No. But when I try to make that point here, a lot of people act butt hurt. They don't even know who I am when I am on a server. They don't even know what I do on horde night. They don't even care how I build my base. They don't even care if I kill one or all zombies at horde night. They don't even care if I log off during horde night. But they damn well care that I can make it easy for myself and keep safe and not having to spend my game repairing the base. It makes no sense and that's what makes the game less and less fun for me with every update, and the non existing reasoning behind why I have to conform is annoying an pushes me away from this.

 

7DTD in a16: Here, have an offroad car, go where ever you want!

a17: ...but you can only drive around in the US of A.

a19: ...and only on highways

a20: ...only between the offices of TFP and the TFP Convention Center.

a21: ...you better park it next to Joels car!

a22: ...clean the damn thing! It's dirty from we don't know when! (Yeah I tell ya, that's dirt from a16, and that was a damn fine car when everything started).

 

The trick in game creation is not to restrict the player as much as possible, but to give the player options and freedom. Minecraft didn't become so big because it only let the player do one thing, but it gave him or her total freedom.

 

We have no arrived in a world where the zombies can move better over blocks than the player can, and they move faster than the player ever can through air and water which further restricts our freedom. We're not to be safe anywhere at any time. Ok, but I'm free to play something else.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Bubbahotetp (see edit history)

[Tahaan]

I want Zeds that jump over holes, but sometimes miss and fall down.

I want zeds the climb up walls, but sometimes falls back down.

 

I want zeds that makes it across a wedge, but only 80% of the time.

 

I want zeds that selects a path to the player that is sometimes not the cheapest path, with most of them takeing that path.  And if they fall then they have a high chance of avoiding any path that involves that spot they fell the last time!

 

 

[Noctoras]

14 hours ago, Bubbahotetp said:

But in all seriousness, I've actually made it easy for myself and just kept playing with bloodmoon off. Becaue if there is one thing I'm incredibly tired off after 4500h ingame, it's the endless base repair and constant hunt for ammo in prep for it.

I wouldn't mind building bases, if it wasn't for demolishers.

 

As it is, it's resource saving and safer to just stand out there in plain open fields with an M60 than being inside a (non cheese!) base.

 

That is if they didn't change demos, didn't get there in A19 yet. 

 

But switching blood moons off? That would actually depriving me of a lot of fun. Just run around a city on blood moon instead of building a base, then you only have to worry about ammo  
And of course you can set blood moons to 14days or so.

[Grolbu]

11 hours ago, katarynna said:

On one of the developer streams, when referring to the fix for the wedge tips, they said zombies can run anywhere players can run. So I would assume yes, but let us know when you try it out.

I tried it. It took a while but Arlene eventually made her way to the top of my little sloped tower and started hitting me. I didn't think she was going to find her way up for quite a long time and I'd have had plenty of time to shoot her, or craft a gun then shoot her, or go and mine some metal then smelt and forge it then craft a gun and shoot her, but she got there in the end.

 

And then she got it in the end 🙂

[Kirtonos]

18 hours ago, Bubbahotetp said:

But in all seriousness, I've actually made it easy for myself and just kept playing with bloodmoon off. Becaue if there is one thing I'm incredibly tired off after 4500h ingame, it's the endless base repair and constant hunt for ammo in prep for it. I actually have a job (yes, I'm a grown up) and when I come home to relax I don't want to stress from bloodmoon to bloodmon but just want some easy going things to do while I'm in game. If or when I run out of fun with bloodmon off I'm not going to turn off all the zombies (as some like to suggest, those people probably also like to eat grilled T-bone steaks made out of tofu), I'm just gonna play any other of my 200 games.

I've mused about doing this exact same thing for awhile now. All of the changes to zeds, A.I., and such over the last few alphas have really left me with this desire to not keep repeating the same cycle over and over. As such, in my last A18 run, I just abandoned building any sort of horde base. Instead I find a sturdy POI that I can make a few adjustments in a quick amount of time to serve as the horde defense base of the week. We still spray bullets like they are going out of style but we don't have to repair the damage and can be free of burden for the next 7 days till the process repeats. Next 7 days, find a new POI!

Granted, there is usually a day devoted to restocking lead, nitrate, and coal so we have 3k+ ammo each to fully expend on a horde night. Brass is an ongoing search as every radiator, brass lamp, and car is wrenched till we have to feed dukes into the forge. 

Also, I don't build bases anymore. I just take over interesting POI's and bend them to my will over time. They only have a single purpose and that is to be a place to keep my stuff. 

To be clear, horde nights are still one of the more fun aspects of the game for me as it is a pure shooting gallery (who doesn't love shooting zombies?) so I'm willing to put in the work to have bullets. I'm just not into the MASSIVE amount of base repair and time it currently requires. Also, I don't like cheesy tactics like OP presented, jump bases, or stuff of that nature.

[Boidster]

Every way to play the game is the right way. If I were playing solo (and maybe we might even try this in our co-op game) I could see turning of BMH and still having quite a bit of fun. But I would absolutely mod zombie spawns to at least 4x and every 12 hours. Exchange a once-a-week (-ish) onslaught for a continuous PITA with zombies all over the place.

[FileMachete]

Posted some pics of my current 18.4 base here;

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/19658-a184-fairly-basic-no-exploit-base-before-after-2-demos-explode/

 

Just a basic no exploit 2-wide corridor base with 4 rows of doubled electric fences and dart traps in ceiling.

Might give some ideas to minimize repair costs as after it had two demolishers explode in basically the same place, repairs consisted of replacing a dozen destroyed r-conc blocks and 5 trigger plates, plus ~300? concrete mix repairing other blocks (less than a thousand total).

[Viktoriusiii]

21 hours ago, Bubbahotetp said:

Why thanks, now they're going to remove that too. They don't want you to be safe, so if there is something - keep it to yourself lest you want the devs to "fix" it. The game is not about choice and fun, it's about killing players and their bases.

Why not simply disable bloodmoon if you wanna be safe tho o_O

[Feycat]

Gotta say, Bubba, your reply doesn't actually have much to do with mine. 

I'm talking about building a base and fighting the horde. 

If you want to turn off zombies or the horde, you have that option, and that's fine.

 

What I'm complaining about is them continually destroying build elements. If the Pimps are just going to change the way building works over and over to nerf the overachievers, then it's just going to continue to punish those of us *who actually want to fight the horde* without building a kill corridor and having traps do it for us.

[Jugginator]

Pretty sure the cheese bases they fix is to ensure the players actually have to fight the horde. Having zombies infinitely fall down a tiny hole isn't fighting unless you choose to pull the trigger. Zero risk to you or your base. They haven't destroyed any base elements; they are making it to where people can build bases they like without breaking the AI so they never touch a base or player. Don't get it twisted  And I wouldn't be too hasty to say they didn't know about this already.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Jugginator (see edit history)

[Bubbahotetp]

2 hours ago, Feycat said:

Gotta say, Bubba, your reply doesn't actually have much to do with mine. 

I'm talking about building a base and fighting the horde. 

If you want to turn off zombies or the horde, you have that option, and that's fine.

 

What I'm complaining about is them continually destroying build elements. If the Pimps are just going to change the way building works over and over to nerf the overachievers, then it's just going to continue to punish those of us *who actually want to fight the horde* without building a kill corridor and having traps do it for us.

I must have misunderstood.

Sure, fighting the horde can be fun, but you can have fun in different ways.

I'm probably far too nerdy about this game by now because I feel loss at the possiblity that bunker building has become a very explicit thing only possible below very high mountains (which don't even occur on every map). Building a base on a high tower and not having to defend it because it's too high up is gone too. Zds swim faster than the player and spawn both on dry land and on the strip that's beyond the water in the radiation zone, so underwater bases are a no go now. They can fall from the sky and only take a fraction of damage so fall bases in order to kill them are almost rediculous now. It feels like TFP have spent more time nerfing what the player can do rather than spending time on what the game can do for the player. Like there is only one single vision of how things are supposed to work and that's it - everybody has to conform or quit playing! That is way not OK. The fun is in the freedom of being able to do things how ever which way, to build where ever you want, however you want!! I want to build towers I don't have to defend!  I want to build underwater tunnels and bases that don't risk getting busted! I want to build bunkers like it's the last day on earth! But no. All of that is not in TFPs vision. You have to build a tower structure with an iron bar rim around, that's the only thing you're supposed to do! Everything else is cheesing or cheating and you have to desist immediately! Creativity is not appreciated and freedom is frowned upon. I don't want to build Joels medieval tower in every single game! When are you devs getting that?! I want to do something widely different every single time, that's what keeps me interested! But you keep cutting my options of doing so with every single update - just because reasons. It's bs!

 

If I play Horde night is off because that is my problem now! If I want some freedom in the game I have to actually turn off what the game is named after in order to get some amusment beyond what I've done 1000 times already. The game had way more potential back in a16 than it has now! All that has been "added" with every subsequent version is gimmicks and player restrictions, and even the most fanatic yea-sayers can only agree. If not, prove me otherwise! Game mechanics wise we've had more restrictions put on our player creativity than TFP have put into actually expanding their universe. It's a tragedy! TFP need to wake up and smell the... Carcass!

[Boidster]

11 minutes ago, Bubbahotetp said:

If not, prove me otherwise!

Prove what exactly? Plenty of people use non-tower-with-railing bases. People have success with underground bunkers. People make AFK horde bases, people play run-and-gun, people do slapdash POI retrofits for BMH and then move on. People play without traders, with extra zombies, with no zombies, 100% wasteland or desert. Modlets, overhauls, community POI packs. If you have exhausted all of those options and none of them are any fun any more, isn't it time to move on? The game gave you 4500 (!) hours of something approximating fun. Lots of us are still on that journey, exploring different ways to keep having fun. Maybe your journey is over. Don't need to be mad, just divert your energy elsewhere.

[Bubbahotetp]

2 hours ago, Jugginator said:

Pretty sure the cheese bases they fix is to ensure the players actually have to fight the horde. Having zombies infinitely fall down a tiny hole isn't fighting unless you choose to pull the trigger. Zero risk to you or your base. They haven't destroyed any base elements; they are making it to where people can build bases they like without breaking the AI so they never touch a base or player. Don't get it twisted  And I wouldn't be too hasty to say they didn't know about this already.

But who'se choice is that? If I want them to fall through a tiny hole because I can - who can say I'm not allowed? I bet you have a car. What if someone told you - yes you have a car, you paid for it. But you can only drive 1 mile a day with it! Because reasons! It's bs. Freedom is what we're after and what makes this game special (or rather DID make it special, because now only bs is left!), and that freedom has been shrinking for no good reason with every update.

 

To let you in on a little secret though - you don't have to worry that those who want to catch rats run out of cheese. I'm not going to say how and what, but I've only today found ways to cheese with some of the most elemental building blocks in the entire game, just because I wanted to reassure myself that what ever TFP have in mind, I won't get railroaded into their way of thinking just because they don't like me to. FREEDOM!!!

[FileMachete]

@Bubbahotetp , there's a part of this I definately agree with. I too had more 'fun' on horde nights in A16 than since. Though that could well be that I challenged myself to minimize Trap kills, but that was only doable, imo, because it was possible for a player to somewhat match zombie block damage with repairs. Just my .02 cents but I think the multiplying damage boost of multiple zeds hitting the same block is at the core of things.

 

That resulted in straight up melee defended bases, the old simple square 'pole' defense, using clubs or machetes, just not being viable anymore.

So we are where we are, and as I've posted before, to me the big issue is that there's such a narrow distance between a base failing or being OP'd. Without some 'give' or room for error in a base then it seems lots of folks wind up with just a couple metas, and that does limit creativity.

 

Someone suggested (sry, can't recall who it was) in another similar thread to lower zombie block damage. And that's a good suggestion. Sadly, some part of me is very resisitant to that idea, so I haven't tried it. But I should, I really should..

 

I hope this isn't offensive as it's not intended to be: maybe try some new base design things in a creative world, wire things up so you have fine grained control over the traps. Like in the base I posted pics on, I have gross On/Off for all the Dart Traps, all the fences & the shotgun turrets. I could re-wire things to control individual rows of traps, so zeds could readily get to the poles between me and them. Then I could swing away!, for however long & then fire some traps up to catch up on repairs. Just a thought, and like I said, I do think I get what you're saying :)

 

heh :) to your last bit, "FREEDOM!" indeed!

[Bubbahotetp]

8 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Prove what exactly? Plenty of people use non-tower-with-railing bases. People have success with underground bunkers. People make AFK horde bases, people play run-and-gun, people do slapdash POI retrofits for BMH and then move on. People play without traders, with extra zombies, with no zombies, 100% wasteland or desert. Modlets, overhauls, community POI packs. If you have exhausted all of those options and none of them are any fun any more, isn't it time to move on? The game gave you 4500 (!) hours of something approximating fun. Lots of us are still on that journey, exploring different ways to keep having fun. Maybe your journey is over. Don't need to be mad, just divert your energy elsewhere.

Good one. My journey is over then, because the devs chose the path of less potential. Rather sad though, because I was ready to put another 4500h into it! Only problem is that that doesn't pay their bills because I've paid for the game once in 1856 and there is no way for old school players to matter anymore, unless the devs actively chose to listen to some expert gamer's advice. Yes, there are many gamers out there who know better how the game actually plays out long run than TFP do, even though they created the game.