Stun Batons

[Carl_Bar]

So in my current game ui went an int build to try out the new junk turret and stun baton. There's been plenty of threads on the turret, and thats a discussion for another thread, but the batton seems to have gotten forgotten pretty much.

 

Honestly, i haven't been impressed, so far it seems to be by far the weakest melee weapon in the game by a pretty wide margin. The ability to stun enemies and the rapid attack rate sound cool, but in practise i've found it to fair poorly in many situations. Against lone zombies wandering around on their own, it's great, against tougher enemies or more than one especially it feels much less capable. If that was true of all melee that wouldn't be a huge issue but honestly other types of melee feel pretty solid.

 

Honestly it just feels like a straight up raw damage issue.

[HungryZombie]

If the stun baton had a very high rate to stun them for a second, enough to swap to another weapon and strike the zomibe, that would be cool. Nice way to deal with the runners.

[minisith]

Or place the junk turret down. Running zombies are harder if you have not placed down the turret. I am trying the turret build now and will hope to use 5-10 turrets on hoard night so once one runs out of bullets the next will activate. Then I would just need to micro manage reloading empty turrets on top of repairing/adding my own fire power.

[beHypE]

Or place the junk turret down. Running zombies are harder if you have not placed down the turret. I am trying the turret build now and will hope to use 5-10 turrets on hoard night so once one runs out of bullets the next will activate. Then I would just need to micro manage reloading empty turrets on top of repairing/adding my own fire power.

 

What does that have to do with stun batons though ?

 

I've been trying them out a bit (unperked that is), but indeed they feel pretty lackluster compared to other options. They would probably fare better if the affected zombie couldn't hit you while being buzzed, even though that could be slightly op.

[Sjustus548]

I started with an Int build as well to give the Stun Batons a try. They seemed like they would be really cool in theory but in practice they are pretty bad. The stun would be great if it was an actual stun and the zombies still couldn't hit you. They really just feel like a worse club most of the time.

[minisith]

What does that have to do with stun batons though ?

 

I've been trying them out a bit (unperked that is), but indeed they feel pretty lackluster compared to other options. They would probably fare better if the affected zombie couldn't hit you while being buzzed, even though that could be slightly op.

 

Wouldn't stunning the zombies be helpful for 2 turrets that were placed shooting the zombies?

[Jeraal]

Stun baton = trader fodder.

[Raist]

Meanwhile, the Int build in my crew is loving the stun baton something fierce when we're clearing POIs. He's got the burning shaft mod in it, and is pretty heavily perked in the Int tree.

 

That thing does work when he's tanking with ranged support behind him.

[HungryZombie]

Wouldn't stunning the zombies be helpful for 2 turrets that were placed shooting the zombies?

 

Sure but you know what would be better? Two turrets and a machine gun. I think the OP is trying to make Stun Batons something besides trader fodder.

[grieferbastard]

Perk it up.

 

2 or 3 perks in and you can effectively stunlock even groups of zombies super quick. Honestly given all the other must-have INT skills I found getting INT to 8, turrets and stun baton to be virtually broken. That's part of what makes it such a good weapon - you've got two very strong combat skills tied to the same attribute.

[Katitof]

I believe turret and stun baton are to be used together, hence neither is particularly excelling in what it does.

 

Use them together however and they work fine.

[EstebanLB]

The stunt baton should stun always but the stun should last a lot less and of course and freeze them there and unable to hit like others mentioned. The dmaging electrical effect that we have now should only happen with power attacks

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I believe turret and stun baton are to be used together, hence neither is particularly excelling in what it does.

 

Use them together however and they work fine.

 

They also work really well when you're part of a team and you stun the zombies while your friends shoot them.

 

That, combined with the Charisma skill, makes me think that the Int specialist is intended to be a support character choice rather than a solo character choice.

[Carl_Bar]

To all those suggesting use them with this that or the other. In what way is a stun baton better at that than say a club or a sledgehammer or a spear, or hell even a knife. Most weapons when you hit someone have a chance of making them stagger back clutching their head. And with the right perks or skill books, (depending on the weapon), you can send enemies flying with various ranged options. And all of these deal significantly more damage as well. In what way is the stun baton better in this than alternatives. Personally i consider getting more than one zombie zapped at once a bonus because the strike pattern is poor for hitting multiple enemies with one attack.

[Ramethzer0]

To quote Hicks from Aliens: "Thats why I keep this," *Ka-chink!* "For close encounters..."

[SickPuppy]

I've put off stun baton and turrets until now because I don't put points into intellect tree. But I've tried all the other new weapons so thought why the hell not. It is by far the easiest I've had it on Insane/Nightmare always run. Once spec'd place a row of turrets down, one dries retreat to the next, all the while baton stuns, decaps, deals a ton of damage. Early to mid game it beats everything in the other trees./

 

I don't know what my fav weapon is anymore.

[Prodigy]

Meanwhile, the Int build in my crew is loving the stun baton something fierce when we're clearing POIs. He's got the burning shaft mod in it, and is pretty heavily perked in the Int tree.

 

That thing does work when he's tanking with ranged support behind him.

 

My current build is "Mechanical Engineer" so I'm using Turrets & Stun Baton (I feel it's character fitting). So, I can say you're right - together they're pretty good.

 

But I think you're forgetting one thing: Every other weapon isn't reliant on dual-weaponry & keeping Zed within a small firing arc to be effective. I can take a mass of zombies out with a spear, or a sledgehammer, or a club - and sure as hell with knuckles or a bat.

 

But stun baton? Wanna be good against a pack of Zed? You're reliant on using another tool to compensate.

 

That in itself (imo) should be enough to tell everyone that it needs work.

 

IMO:

--Crank the durability way down. Like half what it is now, or lower. That way you have to balance it's power with its much lower durability.

--Make every Power Attack stun.

--Give stun a small area of effect.

--Balance stamina usage & damage accordingly.

 

This would not only make it viable on its own, but would create a fairly unique playstyle where the weapon largely focuses on crowd control (which seems more suiting to a stun baton anyway!), where you deal less damage, but have an amazing ability to keep the hordes at bay. This would let your team dispatch them safely - or afford you the opportunity to only deal with 1-2 at a time.

[Prodigy]

I've put off stun baton and turrets until now because I don't put points into intellect tree. But I've tried all the other new weapons so thought why the hell not. It is by far the easiest I've had it on Insane/Nightmare always run. Once spec'd place a row of turrets down, one dries retreat to the next, all the while baton stuns, decaps, deals a ton of damage. Early to mid game it beats everything in the other trees./

 

I don't know what my fav weapon is anymore.

Two things I wanna address about this comment

1) As I mentioned to someone else... you're relying on a weapon combo to compensate for how weak both (baton & turrets) are solo. You don't have to do that with other weapons.

 

2) Baton dealing a ton of damage, is either horribly wrong, or a deliberate lie. It is objectively worse than almost everything, according to the XML files.

 

Base damage for QL 1, Tier 1 weapons is as follows:

Wood Club = 11.6

Bone Knife = 10.2

Stone Spear = 10.3

Stone Sledge = 25.7

Leather Knucks = 8.3

 

Stun Baton.... 10.8

 

Now for the kicker... Stun Baton is, per the XML a Tier 2 weapon - which makes sense, as there's no upgrading to better batons - and it actually requires stun baton parts. So you have a Tier 2 weapon, dealing less damage than the most primative version of other weapons.

 

Now, how does that 10.8 damage compare to other Tier 2, Quality 1 items?

Iron Club = 17.4

Hunting Knife = 10.5

Iron Spear = 12.4

Iron Sledge = 30.8

Iron Knucks = 12.1

 

So, again - objectively - the only thing you're reliably out-damaging... is a f'king deer skinning knife (lmao)

[Carl_Bar]

Two things I wanna address about this comment

1) As I mentioned to someone else... you're relying on a weapon combo to compensate for how weak both (baton & turrets) are solo. You don't have to do that with other weapons.

 

2) Baton dealing a ton of damage, is either horribly wrong, or a deliberate lie. It is objectively worse than almost everything, according to the XML files.

 

Base damage for QL 1, Tier 1 weapons is as follows:

Wood Club = 11.6

Bone Knife = 10.2

Stone Spear = 10.3

Stone Sledge = 25.7

Leather Knucks = 8.3

 

Stun Baton.... 10.8

 

Now for the kicker... Stun Baton is, per the XML a Tier 2 weapon - which makes sense, as there's no upgrading to better batons - and it actually requires stun baton parts. So you have a Tier 2 weapon, dealing less damage than the most primative version of other weapons.

 

Now, how does that 10.8 damage compare to other Tier 2, Quality 1 items?

Iron Club = 17.4

Hunting Knife = 10.5

Iron Spear = 12.4

Iron Sledge = 30.8

Iron Knucks = 12.1

 

So, again - objectively - the only thing you're reliably out-damaging... is a f'king deer skinning knife (lmao)

 

To try to be a little more fair lets include attacks per minute factoring. All T1 average values.

 

Bone Knife: 612DPS

Hunting Knife: 726DPS

Machete: 1089DPS

 

Wood Club: 759DPS

Iron Club: 904.8DPS

Baseball Bat: 1362.4DPS

 

Stun Baton: 756DPS

 

Stone Spear: 566.5DPS

Iron Spear: 682DPS

Steel Spear: 1023DPS

 

Stone Sledgehammer: 873.8DPS

Iron Sledgehammer: 1047.2

Steel Sledgehammer: 1570.8

 

Leather Knuckles: 622.5DPS

Iron Knuckles: 907.5DPS

Steel Knuckles: 1357.5DPS

 

Still shows a painful picture. Especially when you remember the knifes bleeding damage and the spears sheer reach.

[Prodigy]

To try to be a little more fair lets include attacks per minute factoring. All T1 average values.

 

Bone Knife: 612DPS

Hunting Knife: 726DPS

Machete: 1089DPS

 

Wood Club: 759DPS

Iron Club: 904.8DPS

Baseball Bat: 1362.4DPS

 

Stun Baton: 756DPS

 

Stone Spear: 566.5DPS

Iron Spear: 682DPS

Steel Spear: 1023DPS

 

Stone Sledgehammer: 873.8DPS

Iron Sledgehammer: 1047.2

Steel Sledgehammer: 1570.8

 

Leather Knuckles: 622.5DPS

Iron Knuckles: 907.5DPS

Steel Knuckles: 1357.5DPS

 

Still shows a painful picture. Especially when you remember the knifes bleeding damage and the spears sheer reach.

 

Good catch! Didn't think about that, but you're right - even with attack rates considered, it's still incredibly underwhelming.

[SickPuppy]

Two things I wanna address about this comment

1) As I mentioned to someone else... you're relying on a weapon combo to compensate for how weak both (baton & turrets) are solo. You don't have to do that with other weapons.

 

2) Baton dealing a ton of damage, is either horribly wrong, or a deliberate lie. It is objectively worse than almost everything, according to the XML files.

 

Base damage for QL 1, Tier 1 weapons is as follows:

Wood Club = 11.6

Bone Knife = 10.2

Stone Spear = 10.3

Stone Sledge = 25.7

Leather Knucks = 8.3

 

Stun Baton.... 10.8

 

Now for the kicker... Stun Baton is, per the XML a Tier 2 weapon - which makes sense, as there's no upgrading to better batons - and it actually requires stun baton parts. So you have a Tier 2 weapon, dealing less damage than the most primative version of other weapons.

 

Now, how does that 10.8 damage compare to other Tier 2, Quality 1 items?

Iron Club = 17.4

Hunting Knife = 10.5

Iron Spear = 12.4

Iron Sledge = 30.8

Iron Knucks = 12.1

 

So, again - objectively - the only thing you're reliably out-damaging... is a f'king deer skinning knife (lmao)

 

 

I'm not disagreeing other weapons are more powerful, but you can look at stats all day long it won't make a difference to how it plays.

 

 

- all short range melee if you fight zombies head on you'll be getting hit early game so you have to spec into Healing so that's basically your combo compared to baton + turret combo, you can't even spec into turrets till level 5 Int;

- sledges have a very small hit success to the head plus you need to spec into sexT there's your combo;

- again you need to test these on Insane/Nightmare run and see how many times you miss with the stronger weapons compared to the stun baton which 'feels' like it can hardly miss, staggers with head shots, stuns, giving you even more easy hits;

 

If you're playing on lower levels anything goes and the stronger weapons will feel more powerful. Try the 'stronger' weapons on a raged Insane/Nightmare biker then try with a stun baton, your life will be way way easier.

[FA_Q2]

Aside from the fact that the turret is the other weapon in the tree and that thing is asinine when maxed....

 

The stun baton works pretty darn well on its own if you kitted it out right. With weighted head and burning shaft you have enough stun and secondary damage to take on pretty much everything.

[Carl_Bar]

I'm not disagreeing other weapons are more powerful, but you can look at stats all day long it won't make a difference to how it plays.

 

 

- all short range melee if you fight zombies head on you'll be getting hit early game so you have to spec into Healing so that's basically your combo compared to baton + turret combo, you can't even spec into turrets till level 5 Int;

- sledges have a very small hit success to the head plus you need to spec into sexT there's your combo;

- again you need to test these on Insane/Nightmare run and see how many times you miss with the stronger weapons compared to the stun baton which 'feels' like it can hardly miss, staggers with head shots, stuns, giving you even more easy hits;

 

If you're playing on lower levels anything goes and the stronger weapons will feel more powerful. Try the 'stronger' weapons on a raged Insane/Nightmare biker then try with a stun baton, your life will be way way easier.

 

 

Your first bullet point applies to Stun batons too. Alongside knives and knuckles their the shortest ranged weapon in the game. Ditto for the second bullet point.

 

Your last point is even moe asine. Nightmare speed insane difficulty is when the bigger damage outputs of the other weapons matter more not less. On that difficulty/speed combo getting swarmed by multiple zombies is normal. The stun baton cannot deal with that in the slightest because you simply won't live long enough to kill anything worth a damn with it because your damage output is too low.

 

I can't help but feel your mostly considering 1v1 situation. In that scenario the stun baton excel's, no question. But so does every other weapon ranged or melee in the entire game. Nothing struggles with that if you play well.

[Drunkwolf]

the stun isnt really a stun. it just roots them if you get close they will still hit you. and with the awkward rag dolling of the zombies, most of the time when you " stun " them they slide around the screen because they are being rooted at the same time they are doing their new little rage thing. so you have to wait a second or 2 just to see where they will end up before you can even swing again.

 

I like the idea of it, but it still needs some work. I try to make it work and work with the turret, then i see my buddy just come in and one shot their heads off with the sledge and im like...why waste my time with this lol

[Viktoriusiii]

 

Your last point is even moe asine. Nightmare speed insane difficulty is when the bigger damage outputs of the other weapons matter more not less. On that difficulty/speed combo getting swarmed by multiple zombies is normal. The stun baton cannot deal with that in the slightest because you simply won't live long enough to kill anything worth a damn with it because your damage output is too low.

 

Well yes, but actually no.

You DO NOT HIT running zombies with sledgehammers.

Especially if you don't knock them down on glancing blows.

Read my OP in THIS thread.

So if he is saying that the stunbaton has a better glancing arc and less stamina usage and hits more reliably, shocking them, that is actually a HUGE benefit!