The problem with ammo, (COOP and SP)

[ARRANOX]

COOP:

when we are playing 4 player coop we are having a blast, but there is a problem when dividing guns and ammo.

since alot of guns use the same ammo we have divided guns amongs each other by the ammo they use.

one gets 7.56 hunting rifle, sniper rifle and AK-47

one gets 9mm pistol and smg

one gets the shotgun and the 44 magnum

the last person gets the bow and arrow, crossbow and explosive weapons.

 

yes we could divide ammo, but it couses more problems due to someone wasting ammo. like when someone shots every zombie with half a AK mag while someone else is trying to conserve ammo for horde night.

it works alot better when we dont share the same ammo type.

 

Singelplayer:

im sure im not alone with never using the pistol or hunting rifle when i first get "something better"

my AMMO box is my my dearest box, its the most precious thing in my base. and collecting ammo is fun, and its something you usually end up doing when playing the game by yourself.

if the pistol had i different ammo type than the smg i would also use it alot more. (to save my smg ammo)

it would also give me more ammo types to collect for my treasure chamber.

 

Bottom line:

bring back the 10mm ammo for smg

change the hunting rifle ammo to 308?

change the sniper rifle ammo to 308?, 50?, or something else.

 

first they changed the 10mm becouse it would save inventory space, then the steel ammo came along, now steel ammo is being replaced with AP and HP ammo (love it!)

 

i know more ammo types can make inventory managment more problematic in some cases,

i always collected and brought home any steel bullet i found though i never used them. and i dare to bet im not the only one who feels this way.

[Khulkhuum]

Considering that A18 will bring a lot of diversity in weapons (not only melee, but also ranged) you will see quite a lot more management for ammunition. From what i've seen there will be the Junk Turret (which has its own ammo type) and divide for AP and HP for many types of current ammo. You will also have more throwables (2 new types of grenades), but the most important will be how each skill branch contains different weapons, as i presume using different ammo types.

 

So going back to what you posted: COOP will be way more diverse with people choosing different skill branches to use different weapons, but also the loot will be more substantial (still finding a lot of ammo, apart from weapons of varied types). SP on the other hand will let you repeat a playthrough with different skill sets, because investing into one branch will give you enough bonuses to focus on just a couple weapons, saving ammo for the others. This surplus could be sold or used with weapons stashed, even though without the points in the appropriate skills they would deal quite less damage than what you invested in.

[Gazz]

bring back the 10mm ammo for smg

change the hunting rifle ammo to 308?

change the sniper rifle ammo to 308?, 50?, or something else.

No. No. No.

 

If you have players in your group who "waste ammo" then that's a people problem, not a game problem. =P

[Katitof]

Give trigger happy players knife and only knife until they learn.

[12pack]

personally, i like to use the steel ammo for looting and general running around, then save the brass ammo for the horde..

[meganoth]

SP

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Best course probably will be to use the weapons of your perk tree mostly and save all unused ammo of other weapons until you find or buy a high-quality gun that can use it.

 

Selling unused ammo to buy your own type of ammo will probably not make any sense because it seems perks will provide definitely less than 50% equivalent damage bonus.

 

Just look at the 30% kill-streak bonus on the fully perked (I think?) rifle in MM's video. That results in much less than 30% damage bonus since you can't always maintain that bonus. And other perk bonuses like faster reload might just be enough that you reach 30% overall on average. But the trade sell/buy ratio is (without looking) more like 200-1000%.

 

So it makes much more sense to get one top weapon for any ammo type and use the ammo in a round-robin fashion.

 

-----------------------------

 

MP

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We have the same problem in our MP game. Like the question of who takes out the trash in shared appartements it never will be solved completely.

 

it isn't only about who uses up the most ammo. It also is about who gets to kill the most zombies. As I am someone who shoots carefully I often target the head of a zombie only to see it get killed in a hail of bullets before I even can get in my first shot

 

PS: I love the pistol. I often play stealth and like to get in headshots and use the pistol with silencer. Maybe it isn't the most efficient way, but I can't help it. Hunting rifle, yes, I don't know anyone who using it.

[tricorius]

"I'm sorry you wasted your ammo, brah. I'll help kill your zombies as soon as mine are dea--oh, bummer I see your backpack on the ground and your face being eaten by zombies."

 

 

Reading through the OP, I feel like zombie survival is working as intended. You should have to make choices. You should have to conserve resources. You *should* value your ammo stash. You should want to dress it up in sequins and call it "Cher". (Man, I really need to play some multiplayer co-op; I think the loneliness is getting to me.) :: cough ::

[Ti2xGr]

No. No. No.

 

If you have players in your group who "waste ammo" then that's a people problem, not a game problem. =P

 

Exactly this - We have supported large groups of individuals at our base. We team up and go grinding for bullet making supplies when we start to run low. Individuals who choose to use AK's while out looting are required to grind their own ammo supplies and not take from the main ammo stash without approval. Horde night, everyone takes generous amounts of ammo, mainly for their favorite weapon of choice but we all get some of everything.

 

There's that one guy/girl who likes to spray 2 zombies with a hundred rounds of 9mm that is the problem, not the ammo in the game.

[meganoth]

Oops, sorry, have to correct my previous post, I've seen the perk video again and my estimate of less than 50% bonus on weapons you perked into was totally wrong. If I just look at perception and assume the attribute on 10 and relevant perks on 5 then I have boni of

 

50% damage

30 - 50% kill streak

150% more headshot damage, 50% chance of decap on headshot.

More penetration for armor-piercing rounds (while all weapons benefit from the armor reduction)

 

All in all that definitely amounts to something between 100% and 200% damage increase on average (more on horde nights, less in POIs). Enough to take a closer look at the trader prizes when A18 is out. It isn't outright impossible anymore that it could make sense.

[Darthjake]

I'll use the AK, but only after I find a semi-auto mod so it doesn't burst anymore. We split up ammo from a communal pool, and we all grind to get the mats to make the ammo. Primarily it's for horde night but we all carry a gun, in case of bears. Or dogs.

[tricorius]

I'll use the AK, but only after I find a semi-auto mod so it doesn't burst anymore. We split up ammo from a communal pool, and we all grind to get the mats to make the ammo. Primarily it's for horde night but we all carry a gun, in case of bears. Or dogs.

 

Here, here!

 

I know they are (sometimes) zombies too...but man do I fear the quadrupedal terrors way more than the bipedal zombies.

 

(Early game, I save *all* ammo for dogs, whack vultures with a club, and run from anything else that isn't on two legs.)

[Scyris]

Honestly? the comp bow modded out is all you really need to deal with most threats. Though I keep a shotgun handy for close encounters.

[Darthjake]

Here, here!

 

I know they are (sometimes) zombies too...but man do I fear the quadrupedal terrors way more than the bipedal zombies.

 

(Early game, I save *all* ammo for dogs, whack vultures with a club, and run from anything else that isn't on two legs.)

 

Once you have a bicycle vultures are fairly easy, just ride by them, and make them mad, then hop off with the club and they beeline to you.

 

Take a step forward as they are about to reach you and whack.

[Ramethzer0]

Ideally, it comes down to (no matter what your build or style is) is TRIGGER DISCIPLINE.

 

There are so many little details that will help you survive a long day or night in 7 days but nothing will get you further than being smart about how you navigate problems. I've saved countless amounts of ammo just by the right positioning, trigger discipline, and using burst mod instead of going full on Rookie brain and emptying entire clips into ferals. Bad move. Bad, bad move.

 

Fight in open spaces if you gotta. Learn Parkour up to 3. Trust me, you'll thank me later. My fave thing to tell people is "You never know when you need to throw yourself out of third story window."

 

Also: Don't neglect the fact that the shotgun is probably the most versatile weapon in the game. Best used in breaching actions, melee range, and spaced shots. It is single handedly the best all-arounder. High Loot perks will also net you extra ammo, particularly in cars.

[tricorius]

Also: Don't neglect the fact that the shotgun is probably the most versatile weapon in the game. Best used in breaching actions, melee range, and spaced shots. It is single handedly the best all-arounder. High Loot perks will also net you extra ammo, particularly in cars.

 

Agreed. The shotgun tends to get ignored a lot; but it is my favorite up-close and personal gun. I tend to clear POIs by going in stealth as far as possible (ducked, with a compound bow to take advantage of damage bonuses and headshots). Then when (inevitably) things hit the fan, I swap between melee (clubs or blades, whatever I'm spec'd into) and shotgun when I have a group to spray shrapnel into.

[ARRANOX]

No. No. No.

 

If you have players in your group who "waste ammo" then that's a people problem, not a game problem. =P

 

 

 

never said it was a game problem, i got my girlfriend into playing games and this was the first game she stuck too. but try telling her she is the problem... =) btw the best sniper in the game is a singel action and scoped AK-47 (in my opinion) so having it use the same ammo and is also in a different skill tree might be a little unbalancing.

 

so all im saying is that it might be a good idea to take a look at the ammo too see if there could be any improvments.

becouse the game allready has a few different ammo types, and if you can combine Hunting Rifle, sniper Rifle and AK 47. you might aswell combine crossbow bolts and arrows in to one ammo type.

[ARRANOX]

Im guessing it wont be a huge problem for us in the nekst game though.

we are splitting up in two teams so my friend plays with his cohabitant and i play with mine. not PVP though becouse thats an easy way to make a newby hate games.

but in 2 player coop it works perfect splitting the ammo

[Khulkhuum]

never said it was a game problem, i got my girlfriend into playing games and this was the first game she stuck too. but try telling her she is the problem... =) btw the best sniper in the game is a singel action and scoped AK-47 (in my opinion) so having it use the same ammo and is also in a different skill tree might be a little unbalancing.

 

so all im saying is that it might be a good idea to take a look at the ammo too see if there could be any improvments.

becouse the game allready has a few different ammo types, and if you can combine Hunting Rifle, sniper Rifle and AK 47. you might aswell combine crossbow bolts and arrows in to one ammo type.

 

I wouldn't mind getting one group of ammo for both bows and crossbows, but arrows and bolts have big differences, which would make it hard to use one type of ammo for both of the weapon types. In short, HERE is a comparison.

 

In the same manner, some games use a general "ammo" counter for all weapons, but different pistols, smg's and rifles can use different bullets. Using bigger is out of the question, because they wouldn't fit and smaller would most likely shorten the distance the bullet can travel and/or force with which it would go, or perhaps it wouldn't even shoot from out of the chamber. I'm no gun specialist, but if you want to spend a few minutes, HERE is something that you can read and watch.

 

To sum it up, humanity created varied ammunition for varied weapons they created. If you try using different types of ammo for them, depending on how different it is, it may as well not work as intended up to destroying your weapon and wounding or even killing the user.

[Gazz]

To sum it up, humanity created varied ammunition for varied weapons they created. If you try using different types of ammo for them, depending on how different it is, it may as well not work as intended up to destroying your weapon and wounding or even killing the user.

With real ammo, don't ever wing it.

Even if the round looks exactly the same (like .308 vs 7.62×51mm), bad things can happen if you switch them around.

(and no, I'm not getting into specifics. DON'T DO THAT.)

[ARRANOX]

I wouldn't mind getting one group of ammo for both bows and crossbows, but arrows and bolts have big differences, which would make it hard to use one type of ammo for both of the weapon types. In short, HERE is a comparison.

 

In the same manner, some games use a general "ammo" counter for all weapons, but different pistols, smg's and rifles can use different bullets. Using bigger is out of the question, because they wouldn't fit and smaller would most likely shorten the distance the bullet can travel and/or force with which it would go, or perhaps it wouldn't even shoot from out of the chamber. I'm no gun specialist, but if you want to spend a few minutes, HERE is something that you can read and watch.

 

To sum it up, humanity created varied ammunition for varied weapons they created. If you try using different types of ammo for them, depending on how different it is, it may as well not work as intended up to destroying your weapon and wounding or even killing the user.

 

yeah i was being sarcastic with the crossbow bolt and arrow thing, and you kinda made my point for me.

however it is possible to find a remington hunting rifle that uses 7.62 NATO ammo,but it is higly unlikely.

 

changing the AMMO types to different for each gun became a wish for me after you added all the modifiactions.

The pistol can now be used with silencer and red dot for sleeper zombie infiltration, but you can also mod the smg with single action and the same mods, and have an better output, so still scrapping the pistol.

 

if im saving ammo for horde night and i go out with my meele weapon, it would be great to bring the pistol as a trusty sidearm incase. but i might aswell take the smg becouse i wont waste any more ammo with it and my chance of survival increases.

 

same goes with 7.62 based weapons.

 

all i want is for there to be a reason to still use the pistol and hunting rifle beyond day 21.

[Khulkhuum]

I think the best reason to use lower class weapons would be single or double skill tree point distribution. If you invest in only one skill tree, only one group of weapons will have the most benefits, so you're more eager to use the 3-4 weapons from that group, rather than the multitude of others without the bonuses. At least that's what i think late game would be in A18, with out-of-class weapons being used when exploring at most.

[eXSe]

Ahhh yes, that famous one guy. We all have them

 

Usually I club Zeds down or shoot them with a bow. Firearm is there (AK or a Shotgun), but for those "O ♥♥♥♥!" moments.

 

But, when or buddy forgets himself and is not listening to reason, what I like to do then is go with him on a loot run with my AK and then just go ham on any and all zombies, mowing them down with excessive amounts of ammo, until he freaks out and asks me to try and be more "economical"

[ARRANOX]

i really like how A18 is doing more specialised classes, and in my opinion its a huge step in the right direction.

and it will make 4 player coop alot better,

 

even if each player in a group of 4 could have their own major ammo type the (one famous person) would still waste their ammo, and if they end up dying becouse of it, it won`t be becouse we didn`t share enough ammo with them.

 

the worst player usually also get one of the most ammo rich classes in our group, becouse in the end its not about survival...

its about having fun.

[Ramethzer0]

With real ammo, don't ever wing it.

Even if the round looks exactly the same (like .308 vs 7.62×51mm), bad things can happen if you switch them around.

(and no, I'm not getting into specifics. DON'T DO THAT.)

 

A lot of people who aren't trained in firearm safety and usage have a hard time understanding certain things. This is just one specific example. There is a distinct lack of nuance in the way a lot of FPS play that many folks believe they can do this kinda thing IRL. The first time I live fired a 12 gauge as a wee lad (as opposed to .22LR) taught me right away to respect these kind of nuances.

 

I'm particularly happy that in this game we aren't forced to clear a jam. Can you imagine the shenanigans of a poorly maintained firearm, alongside with bad hand-loads? Tumbled rounds? Barrel stoppage? Lead exposure? This is on top of negligent discharge.

[SylenThunder]

A lot of people who aren't trained in firearm safety and usage have a hard time understanding certain things. This is just one specific example. There is a distinct lack of nuance in the way a lot of FPS play that many folks believe they can do this kinda thing IRL. The first time I live fired a 12 gauge as a wee lad (as opposed to .22LR) taught me right away to respect these kind of nuances.

 

I'm particularly happy that in this game we aren't forced to clear a jam. Can you imagine the shenanigans of a poorly maintained firearm, alongside with bad hand-loads? Tumbled rounds? Barrel stoppage? Lead exposure? This is on top of negligent discharge.

Just imagine if the blunderbuss had a 60% chance to just explode in your face.