Drithyl Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Thats good, I thought you were offended, like yeah I'm brash or quickly to the point, and sometimes that stirs the pot too much. No, not at all offended on a personal level. I just think a lot of your game, which makes me expect a lot from every word of the developers. Perhaps too much. That said and coming back on topic, so far I like most of the changes that a18 is bringing, so as much as we may disagree on design, I'm satisfied with where things are headed. Modding will do the rest, as far as more complexity goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @Roland Does this grind your gears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 well... we certainly have different opinions on what "silent majority" means I mean those that are not fans of the product. Who play it, but do not interact with the community in any way. They might still like it, but not enough to actually register somewhere or write a review. So for me, you are not a silent majority. You are a less active minority. But you still do read the forums, you still do all that. And this: "I would say that 90% of the gamers I know rarely if ever visit any game forums. Most of them go to you-tube or twitch if they want information." is what I mean by silent minority. I was not only reffering to forum, but reviews on steam. If you are not on the forums and you do not interact with its community and try to give advice/share your dreams, you can be called a silent majority. Those are, as you put it... the 90% majority. (even more but yea) These are the people I (and probably MM) mean by silent majority. They are silent towards the community, even if they watch videos on the game or something. (the line is obviously not as clear as I put it! If they spend an hour a day arguing with other fans in the youtube comments, I would no longer call them silent but the overall definition for me would be: "A player who plays a game but does not interact with the rest of the playerbase and/or shares his ideas/ideals and opinions about the game." The hole in the logic comes if this silent majority is defined in a way that any claims made about them are unfalsifiable. No one can claim to be a representative from the silent majority, because that excludes them by definition. Then anyone can say this majority "doens’t care about changes" or whatever they like, and it’s impossible to refute. At least, unless you have analytics that can suss out player's preferences whether or not they participate, solely from what they're recorded doing in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Well, there goes trying to change the subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THARN Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 The hole in the logic comes if this silent majority is defined in a way that any claims made about them are unfalsifiable. No one can claim to be a representative from the silent majority, because that excludes them by definition. Then anyone can say this majority "doens’t care about changes" or whatever they like, and it’s impossible to refute. At least, unless you have analytics that can suss out player's preferences whether or not they participate, solely from what they're recorded doing in the game. Majority rules.... or at least that's how it used to be when everything was well and good. Now its the 5% that scream and moan..and witht he help of the internet appear to be more like 50%.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @Roland Does this grind your gears? I don't know about Roland, but I wouldn't mind teaching her some math. *wink wink* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THARN Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 - - - Updated - - - The heat is making everybody irritable. Can't wait to move up north. say that after a long cold winter... - - - Updated - - - @Roland Does this grind your gears? common core math at its best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I don't know about Roland, but I wouldn't mind teaching her some math. *wink wink* Just be careful not to multiply - - - Updated - - - say that after a long cold winter... - - - Updated - - - Lol I was thinking Seattle or Oregon, not the Arctic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrymonkey_13 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I have never seen myself as any kind of 'silent majority'. I prefer quiet myself. I am not a computer person. I took up this beast very late in life. If I like something, I will usually say so. And I like 7 Days to Die. When I come into the forums, and I see what folks are writing, mostly it confuses me. Because of my crippling lack of said knowledge of the personal confuser. I even built one early this year in the hopes of understanding my enemy better. Alas I found that just about any trained monkey can build one. Between P/C Parts Picker and You Tube, it was a no-brainer. Took me all of 3 hrs. And if i'd had any knowledge of what I was doing, I could've halved that time. I said all that to say this, just because i'm silent, doesn't mean i'm not watching, reading the forums and keeping up as best I can. Everyone involved is doing a great job, and the game seems to be progressing well. I don't comment often, because of ... Well, let's just leave it there, ok ? If anybody reads this, you really do need to get out more. But thanks if you did and I hope someone understands why I wrote it .. Adieu' y'all ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecv Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 He doesn't have access to data from Morrowind players, which are the numbers he was making up in his post and which I was referencing. Sorry, but if you really think that this is what it is, a classroom where madmole is the teacher imparting his wisdom, then as a teacher yourself you would probably expect him to use better arguments than made up numbers or "this is better than your idea because I say so and I'm successful". That's a fallacy and is not how things should be discussed. Nobody is an absolute authority in any subject. I'm going to disagree as well on what constitutes a fact to you, because rarely have I seen madmole giving cold hard facts. Most of the time he quotes random figures that he comes up with, doesn't give a source to them or any sort of explanation either. If he doesn't want to discuss at all or win any debate then he simply shouldn't respond to people. He should post about whatever he has to say on the development of the game and not engage in a discussion, because if he does, it's natural to expect a minimum level from the "master". Also, one can criticize or question things that are said by the teacher without having to be a "know-it-all" whom everyone dislikes. What kind of stigmatization is that, and coming from a moderator? I should have read ahead. My social justice demon took over, while apparently all has been said already *** I might be risking my neck here, but I'm seeing moderators as normal people. They have their own opinions. As long as they somehow mark their moderating actions as being official, they can say whatever they please. I'll never understand why people see other people differently, just because they hold a position like moderator or ceo, in addition to being gamers as well. Do they really need to use different accounts? They are people like you, just with some additional responsibilities on top. Cut them some slack it might be you. How would you feel if you'd constantly have to switch personas, just to take part in a civilized discussion? Afaik, they are not getting paid, they are just. Like. You. In every regard, other than being also a moderator or ceo. Let's discuss things like people, not like ranks. I haven't seen someone banned or muted yet for voicing their opinions, let's give our moderators the same treatment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVegaNL Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Well he has a valid business decision to make... Have a complicated game with a loyal, solid but small fan base, or listen to his rust buddies and consultant (real things he has posted) and simplify the game to appeal to the casual but much larger fan base. Both are valid. Neither is wrong. Me, I'd go after the money. So I don't blame them. Moddability is what the small/loyal crowd is going to do anyway, and they're certainly supporting that. Win/Win. Yeah I know, it's not a wrong choice. That's not what I meant with my post. I was just trying to say that Cities Skylines is the least complex game from Paradox that I have, that's all - - - Updated - - - I'm sure I can get into it, I just have to commit to a couple hours of learning something then once I get over the hump I can get into it. Now that I know its not super simple I can go in mentally prepared to learn it the next time. Haha, no worries buddy! I only meant to say that Paradox games are very, very complex. Which doesn't mean they are better or worse than other games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVegaNL Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 [snip] Will you be the student sitting in the front row, turning around annoyed when someone is talking at the back of the class, whispering 'shhhh, quiet!'? ^-^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecv Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 IDK, do you think mobile games are the best game? Mobile games make up over 30+% of the video game market. That means you are likely to make more money with a mobile game then with PC or Console. Please say you don't agree that mobile games are the best game https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/ 30% of the market seems to feel that they are. Your opinion does not change facts, however strong it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adilaris Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I'm not always sure what the constant bitching at the devs is about. I had a blast (and still am) with a17, and delightful to recently learn that 18 is already around the corner. I like where the devs are going with it too. I'm no "hardcore" gamer by far, and I like that much of the vanilla game has the basics of what I'm looking for when I play; just something I can play casually with friends without it being frustratingly difficult, unless I want it to be, haha. Given the topic I've seen lately though, I also agree with devs that the level by doing style of the older version wasn't much fun. I remember spending many nights every early game just cranking out bows like I'm arming a tribal army or something. At least since 17 it's been a lot easier for us to just break off and specialize earlier on; and the video for a18 makes it look like that'll be even easier to do! I'm usually the crafter and base-builder for the group, so it'll be nice to take a little of that pressure to craft off so I can focus on bases and defenses. Just my two cents. Or I guess five cents, since Canadian's don't use pennies anymore, haha. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcarwilly Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 My man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @Roland Does this grind your gears? Just say no to home schooling! Of course, if my mom had offered to home school me using the "Cartoons make better teachers" program... I would have accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpoycustards Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 We'll find out soon, its not incredibly far off now. Imminent release HYYYYPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDamnDutchie Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I mean... it is just THE most requested feature in the elderscrolls... but I mean... that is you I guess If something isnt optimized, just scrap it and replace it with nothing instead of tweeking it so it is better. (#sorrynotsorry for that snarky tone, but it is true that this is one of 7d2d biggest flaws in my opinion and reading your comment I think I can trace it back to you. Removing something that is absolutely unbalancable is rarely okay. But not replacing it with something else leaves unnatural holes in the product, especially, but not exclusively for people who already played it before.) Uh yeah, spell creation or spells in general in a zombie game..? No. Maybe its "the most requested feature in Elderscrolls" as you state, but this is 7 days to die. You shotgun Z's to the head like a boss, not some weird abracadabra and they poof. Spells make no sense in the 7 days universe. But A17 was the other way round. You bent over the caring minority and argued that the silent majority will like them so its fine. Where did you do this research about what the caring minority wants? Because I havent seen it. I and pretty much all my friends who play 7 days find A17 a GREAT improvement over the previous Alpha's, and A18 is shaping up to polish it even more (no levelgating etc). Just like you criticize MM for speaking for/of the silent mayority, you do the same with the caring minority IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holymanhell Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Should we wait in the near future for new alpha on the PS4 or can we forget about the update on this platform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2n1 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I played TA first, so no need for starcraft Mods were insane. 7DTD1 should be the Total Annihilation but not StarCraft. I like TA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beHypE Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Jesus some of you guys really need a break from the forums until A18 drops. It seems like no matter what Madmole posts these days it's subject to controversy because there's nothing else to do but chat ♥♥♥♥ on the forums. I mean in the end no matter how smart you think you are he's made a name for himself doing exactly what you think you do better. Not trying to imply anyone that doesn't agree with him is automatically wrong but it really feels like some of you love to nitpick everything he says just to get into an argument with him. A17 had huge flaws and broke a lot of things. But it's only fair to aknowledge that TFP agreed there were indeed issues, and they have been working in order to fix those misteps. What else do you want in the end ? This starts to feel like the exact same community anger that EA or Blizzard/Activision triggers every. single. time. You might not like EA games but they make effing billions selling their games year in year out, and Diablo Immortal will make millions off of microtransactions despite butthurt PC tryhards that feel betrayed. Are they profit-seeking companies that look for the next billion $ product instead of battling on forums to keep old-timers happy ? Hell yeah. Is this related to them being companies and not open-source volunteer-driven project makers ? Hmmm maybe ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Uh yeah, spell creation or spells in general in a zombie game..? No. Maybe its "the most requested feature in Elderscrolls" as you state, but this is 7 days to die. You shotgun Z's to the head like a boss, not some weird abracadabra and they poof. Spells make no sense in the 7 days universe. Where did you do this research about what the caring minority wants? Because I havent seen it. I and pretty much all my friends who play 7 days find A17 a GREAT improvement over the previous Alpha's, and A18 is shaping up to polish it even more (no levelgating etc). Just like you criticize MM for speaking for/of the silent mayority, you do the same with the caring minority IMO. AAAAAnd we're back folks from out small break. But now it's time for our show again! "♥♥♥♥ that I never said, that is taken out of context and that is so plainly obvious that I can't believe I need to explain this again" 1. My argument of the spell creator was never meant to be taken as "I want to create spells in 7d2d" (although that magic mod does seem fun). It was a rebuttal of MM's idea that removing complex things to streamline is good and he took the spell creator, one of the most wished back and missed features of Oblivion as an example. 2. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?97336-Perks-System-and-Level-Gates And so SO many discussions about the state of A17 combined with the drop in ratings from 88% down to 37% after A17 dropped Couple all that with some of MMs statements when this was happening... It was pretty obvious and I feel like you weren't on the forums at that time or you wouldnt ask me such a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archergod Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 That depends how long it took him and how many hairs were pulled out getting there. Some guys love a challenge, others like to stay in the comfort zone. That is why I said who is able to solve it, is capable smart programmer. how make you pull hair is just comfort zone guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archergod Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Madmole, during the last horde an interesting thought occurred to me. Could you add to the screen an optional counter that will show the number of zombies that appeared on the night of the horde and the number of zombies killed by the player during the night of the horde. Such a counter could appear one hour before the horde and disappear one hour after the end of the horde. The same could be done when completing quests, for example, by clearing buildings from zombies. This could be interesting as a single hardcore players, and in the co-op, when players can brag about their success with each other. It can also launch a wave of screenshots on the Internet. What do you think about it? ) I don't like the idea of "how many remain" for horde, but I do like to know how many left in Quest. Sometime, it happens that I feel like I finish the building and kill all zombie but quest doesn't finish, because I miss an area. That counter keep me in line. Also, I love to see my horde night kill separately, good if we can show it per horde night, but at least last horde night and total horde night kills. They don't have to be on Screen for me. Just that I love some stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uRsOuL Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @Crater Creator thanks for the info. I do enjoy reading other post's now and then, but most of the time, I just want to read what the devs have said and whats upcoming. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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