pregnable Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 He’s talking about iron ORE. They removed iron ore so now when you mine you don’t get ore, you get straight iron. More simplification... sigh. Loc I thought it was so they could bring asphalt back into the game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I thought it was so they could bring asphalt back into the game though. I thought they removed gravel to accommodate asphalt because nobody crafts with gravel. Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 He’s talking about iron ORE. They removed iron ore so now when you mine you don’t get ore, you get straight iron. More simplification... sigh. Loc All the other ores were like this already. They just made iron in line with the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beHypE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 While you still have to smelt it to use it, it still removes a whole step of smelting. Before you smelt the ore into iron. Now you don’t. It removes choice and priorities. Before you had to make a decision. Do I need to make forged iron to repair before the horde, or do I need iron for turret ammunition? Now I can do both at the same time. I dunno...some of these changes just seem to be made just for the sake of it without deeper understanding on how it can affect fundamental gameplay imo. I never had an issue with any forging recipes, so I’d like to know where this one came from. Loc Wtf are you even talking about. You used to melt the iron ores into the forge, had to wait, and then crafted scrap iron out of it. How was that "fundamental gameplay" ? Now you just keep whatever you need for crafting and melt the rest, much easier and in line with all the other resources. If anything it's a much welcomed change that will make us all have more scrap iron early game until we have access to a forge, since there's no more scrapping penalty. These kind of overexaggerated kneejerk reactions for such small changes that have 0 influence on actual gameplay are the reason we all, as a community, have less impact when we actually do make valid criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drithyl Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 While you still have to smelt it to use it, it still removes a whole step of smelting. Before you smelt the ore into iron. Now you don’t. It removes choice and priorities. Before you had to make a decision. Do I need to make forged iron to repair before the horde, or do I need iron for turret ammunition? Now I can do both at the same time. I dunno...some of these changes just seem to be made just for the sake of it without deeper understanding on how it can affect fundamental gameplay imo. I never had an issue with any forging recipes, so I’d like to know where this one came from. Loc I'm generally against simplification but this change makes sense. None of the other metals have ore like iron does, even though you also mine them underground, so iron was the exception that didn't make much sense, especially since "iron" was not even called "scrap iron" anymore. As for the turret ammo/forged iron decision it's not much of an interesting gameplay choice, but it's still there. Do you smelt the iron you get from mining, or do you turn it into junk turret ammo? Do you smelt it all or keep some around as backup for when you need more turret ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 While you still have to smelt it to use it, it still removes a whole step of smelting. Before you smelt the ore into iron. Now you don’t. It removes choice and priorities. Before you had to make a decision. Do I need to make forged iron to repair before the horde, or do I need iron for turret ammunition? Now I can do both at the same time. It doesn't remove a whole step. I'm constantly swimming in iron from scrapping things out in the field, so much that I'm usually throwing that into the forge to melt it down. There's no decision to be made there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareee Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Idea pitch for alternative system. Minecraft used lava instead of bedrock to create a depth boundary (I could be wrong, it doesn't change my idea i'm pitching) which gave me this idea. Instead of using bedrock, why not have a system in place so that once you dig past a certain depth tempature goes up. For every meter you dig deeper the temperature rises exponentially, thus extremely limiting how far one can dig down. This is much more realistic and based upon what is called geothermal temperature gradient. The increase in tempature could be so extreme that just 5 meters bellow the cut of depth of playable area it rises to 500 degrees. Thats a rise of 100 degrees per meter insuring no player can live long should they keep digging down. This would fulfill the intended role of a depth boundary without all the cons associated with bedrock. No more annoying sound, no more invincible stone limiting immersion and it creates a false illusion of freedom to dig forever. This actually sounds like a great idea. It would also free up a ground block, maybe permitting a grass block addition to user placeable ground. I really HATE that I cannpt place green grass ground, and painting gound blocks has been shrugged aside. Part of the allure to the game is crafting and building, and not being able to place grass covered ground to lighten up dismal biome ground is such a letdown. Maybe a new cheap "farm plot" block can be added thats just a grass plot? The code is already in place for it to merge together, and it would still need a proper border block like cobblestone or cement to look attractive but at least its a bone to toss for builder's creativity. It could even be added to the livin off the land perk that allows you to craft seeds for flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Removing iron ore !?? What's the next step ? Removing the hoe and definitely break the game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareee Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Kipster - excellent read and I thought I had it rough. I think to get a workbench schematic you have to wrench the workbench. Well worked for me anyways. Apart from they of course can’t be a traders workbench as everything is flagged protected in them. I prefer this idea instead of just finding schematics inside broken stations. Make players work for something instead of just giving them a handout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Wtf are you even talking about. You used to melt the iron ores into the forge, had to wait, and then crafted scrap iron out of it. How was that "fundamental gameplay" ? Now you just keep whatever you need for crafting and melt the rest, much easier and in line with all the other resources. If anything it's a much welcomed change that will make us all have more scrap iron early game until we have access to a forge, since there's no more scrapping penalty. These kind of overexaggerated kneejerk reactions for such small changes that have 0 influence on actual gameplay are the reason we all, as a community, have less impact when we actually do make valid criticism. The fundamental gameplay I’m referring to is choice. You said it yourself it’s “much easier” which removes choice and having to prioritize your crafting. Having “more scrap iron early game” also changes fundamental gameplay as you pointed out yourself. So while I appreciate your opinion, you kinda put your foot in your mouth. I don’t feel my comments are over exaggerated knee jerk reactions either. I’m simply stating a point that I’m a fan of choice and hard decisions when it comes to gameplay. I’m not asking for over complication. I just don’t want things to get too streamlined where you don’t have to think about anything because there is only one way to do everything. Edit: I didn’t realize that scrapping iron ore had no penalty anymore. That basically paved the way for the change, so I guess I’ve already lost the argument... Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agrastiOs Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Ohhh simple looting can produce a schematic as well, I stand corrected then. - - - Updated - - - I swear I found iron ore last night. I think it was from a destroyed forge though. 12 hours ago a new experimental shipped which has the change: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?133142-Announcement-A18-1-b6-goes-EXP It is an interesting change, having thought about it, I think it is for the better. Have TFP fixed that I have to switch Windows interface from Ru to En to use ingame inventories? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Walking-Dad Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The first rumble of day 24 horde night thunder... maw, git me gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beHypE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The fundamental gameplay I’m referring to is choice. You said it yourself it’s “much easier” which removes choice and having to prioritize your crafting. Having “more scrap iron early game” also changes fundamental gameplay as you pointed out yourself. So while I appreciate your opinion, you kinda put your foot in your mouth. I don’t feel my comments are over exaggerated knee jerk reactions either. I’m simply stating a point that I’m a fan of choice and hard decisions when it comes to gameplay. I’m not asking for over complication. I just don’t want things to get too streamlined where you don’t have to think about anything because there is only one way to do everything. Edit: I didn’t realize that scrapping iron ore had no penalty anymore. That basically paved the way for the change, so I guess I’ve already lost the argument... Loc Sorry if the "over exaggerated knee jerk reactions" felt specifically written for you, but there's already a thread in the General Discussion subforum where people start whining like it's the end of 7 days again. It was more of a global impression that indeed, a lot of people here are change averse and that doesn't help us when we argue about new / reworked features as a whole. That being said I still don't think having more scrap iron early game changes "fundamental gameplay" and that we "lost a choice". Or we have different ideas of what "fundamental gameplay" is... The choice is exactly the same, how much of that iron do I wanna smelt, how much do I wanna keep for inventory crafting. Same thoughts, slightly different process. And it's simply in line with all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Crafters like the processes of refining and combining. We enjoy scrapping things into components and then using those components to create something new. We like harvesting raw resources and turning them into refined materials. We like having intermediate components that can be used for a variety of finished products. Non-crafters see the process as a tedious waste of time. They just want the finished product and who cares if it takes one step or five? They would say, “Just make it one step so we can get to playing the actual game”. I think that somewhere along the way the non-crafter way if seeing things won the day at TFP. I personally would have preferred changing all the other ores to be more like iron—with a raw version that must be refined to usable resources instead of the way they went. But I also like building, killing, looting and exploring so glossing over crafting and making it more streamlined and abstract doesn’t kill the game for me. But it does cut out what once was a more robust and enjoyable process (for those of us who like that sort of thing). There is always Space Engineers to scratch that crafting itch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 No video this time? Horde night defense videos are addicting to watch. At least the ones that dont over use the zombie loop design excessively. 😂 You know me, I'm old school. Put up some bars on a tower and its me or them. I still can't make steel so I won't be able to do the full on Special K base design for who knows how long. Maybe next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beHypE Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Roland, I very much like crafting and assembling and combining. I'd be a fierge advocate for the return of gun parts for example, because the new method feels... abstract and lacks the fine-tuning the old system had. That being said, those raw irons didn't provide any value. There were no recipes with them, and in the end the only thing that changes is the icon that you put in the forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Crafters like the processes of refining and combining. We enjoy scrapping things into components and then using those components to create something new. We like harvesting raw resources and turning them into refined materials. We like having intermediate components that can be used for a variety of finished products. Non-crafters see the process as a tedious waste of time. They just want the finished product and who cares if it takes one step or five? They would say, “Just make it one step so we can get to playing the actual game”. I think that somewhere along the way the non-crafter way if seeing things won the day at TFP. I personally would have preferred changing all the other ores to be more like iron—with a raw version that must be refined to usable resources instead of the way they went. But I also like building, killing, looting and exploring so glossing over crafting and making it more streamlined and abstract doesn’t kill the game for me. But it does cut out what once was a more robust and enjoyable process (for those of us who like that sort of thing). There is always Space Engineers to scratch that crafting itch... Either way iron has to get sucked into the forge. I NEVER had to use the forge to create regular iron. Always have more than enough from other sources. Nothing changes for me at all here, just one less icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Sorry if the "over exaggerated knee jerk reactions" felt specifically written for you, but there's already a thread in the General Discussion subforum where people start whining like it's the end of 7 days again. It was more of a global impression that indeed, a lot of people here are change averse and that doesn't help us when we argue about new / reworked features as a whole. That being said I still don't think having more scrap iron early game changes "fundamental gameplay" and that we "lost a choice". Or we have different ideas of what "fundamental gameplay" is... The choice is exactly the same, how much of that iron do I wanna smelt, how much do I wanna keep for inventory crafting. Same thoughts, slightly different process. And it's simply in line with all the rest. I appreciate your sentiments beHypE. I don’t really explore the entire forum to know what is being expressed where, so I can understand if I’m singing to the same tune as others. I’m not against change but in this case it just made me think that forging priorities should maybe be a bigger part of the time management in the game. Without the ore scrapping penalty, it doesn’t make sense to keep ore as you and others have mentioned. I never knew that was changed, so that’s what started my argument and perhaps it was a bit reactionary. The fact that the ores are in line with each other makes more sense too I suppose. My concerns still stand though! Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Either way iron has to get sucked into the forge. I NEVER had to use the forge to create regular iron. Always have more than enough from other sources. Nothing changes for me at all here, just one less icon. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareee Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The first rumble of day 24 horde night thunder... maw, git me gun! Yeah, but they are recommending a new game with the new exp build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locusta Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Crafters like the processes of refining and combining. We enjoy scrapping things into components and then using those components to create something new. We like harvesting raw resources and turning them into refined materials. We like having intermediate components that can be used for a variety of finished products. Non-crafters see the process as a tedious waste of time. They just want the finished product and who cares if it takes one step or five? They would say, “Just make it one step so we can get to playing the actual game”. I think that somewhere along the way the non-crafter way if seeing things won the day at TFP. I personally would have preferred changing all the other ores to be more like iron—with a raw version that must be refined to usable resources instead of the way they went. But I also like building, killing, looting and exploring so glossing over crafting and making it more streamlined and abstract doesn’t kill the game for me. But it does cut out what once was a more robust and enjoyable process (for those of us who like that sort of thing). There is always Space Engineers to scratch that crafting itch... This! You basically pointed out what I poorly was describing as “fundamental gameplay”. It’s definitely the crafter in me that is against changes like this. Thanks Roland! Loc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Without the ore scrapping penalty, it doesn’t make sense to keep ore as you and others have mentioned. I never knew that was changed, so that’s what started my argument and perhaps it was a bit reactionary. The fact that the ores are in line with each other makes more sense too I suppose. My concerns still stand though! Where are you getting the ore that you don't immediately throw it in a forge or a chest? Like, I can understand having to decide whether to scrap a doorknob out in the field or saving it to get the full value when you get back to base. With iron ore, though, you would have been mining it (I assume intentionally), and probably near your base or an outpost. Most of what would be in your inventory at the time would be iron ore, rocks, and maybe some sand. When would you be needing to save space in your inventory by deciding whether to scrap it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Here's a shot of my Special K base before the horde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Delete blunderbuss vs add auto shotgun, assault rifle, .50 cal sniper rifle? Delete that sucker ASAP!!!! 😂 LOL yeah in the right context things make sense. Maybe we can repurpose the blunderbuss to be a T1 rocket/grenade launcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Lemme break it down to what it is. It's not about iron ore. The ore removal is just yet another example of the dumbing down/simplification that people who have played the game for many alphas and enjoyed it, don't like. ...cue MM's "stick" comment. Used to be we'd have to take wood to make sticks. Take rocks to make sharp rocks. Then and only then could we make arrows. Now it's punch a tree and a boulder, straight to making arrows. Seems insignificant and slight to you? Multiply that simplification over dozens of systems, and you have the current generic and boring crafting system, when we once had a complicated one that made you think and plan, and more importantly made you prepare. "But newbies couldn't figure it out!". Um, then why do you have the fevered fan base that you have? Because newbies COULD figure it out. And they enjoyed it. ...we once had 19 biomes in the xmls. 19. Now we functionally have 3. And they cause a bigger fps drop than the 19. Jesus, I was actually going to make a list of all the things we have lost, but what's the point. MM et al likes the for dummies version of the game, that's not going to change, so why bother. Y'all have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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