Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Xenophobed44]

If we are so close to gold (and yeh, I actually do believe we are) then why so many major shifts in how things work?

 

Even mm begrudgingly admitted 17 wasn't well received; perhaps they should have a serious conversation about pushing gold back, so that their final vision of the game is at least as awesome as the earlier iterations?

 

I'm not whining about being forgotten about, I recognize my money was spent a long time ago and I'm cool with that, but they're fixing to release a fairly boring game with a target audience of 20 to 30 hours, when they HAD a game that gave people thousands of hours...

 

It just doesn't make sense. Recidivism.

 

This right here..... It honestly feels like they want to finish this game ASAP while doing so as cleanly as possible even if it's lackluster. Just so they can jump start work on their sequel they keep mentioning that I'm just code naming 7 Days To Die 2

 

 

Edit: Which to be honest I love 7 Days to Die

I'd truly love it if TFP let the game live up to it's full potential

Perhaps 7 Days to Die is incapable of doing that due to engine limitations and messy 1st major game code

 

Maybe just Maybe 7 Days to Die 2 is everything we could of ever dreamed for if it truly does become a thing and perhaps we should be grateful for a chapter to close on 7 Days to Die 1

[beerfly]

Am I the only one thinks that this 20-30 hour stuff is filling the early game with more cool stuff/content/experience, just as we have later on..lategame ? That is how many more people will be attracted and noone will leave..

 

Cmon, its not serious to think that they will just leave hardcore players just like that. Flat eartheners !

 

 

 

I hope I never see a further discussion on this topic.

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

 

I can see why they want to go gold as quickly as possible. It's the same when you're coming to the end of any large project, the tendency is to try and rush those last few yards. It can be hard to focus on the details with the overall goal so close. Having a mile-marker to symbolize the end of the main work will probably help to reset everyone's mind-set to a less hectic pace. The memes about how long development is taking aren't helping. TFP are people too, so I'm reliably informed... contrary to any available evidence :-)

 

I have always had little doubt there will be additions and polishes after gold. Surely now is when we should be suggesting ideas for polish and expansion that will probably not make it in the main release but may (or may not) be revisited when everyone is feeling a little more zen. Give it time to work around in people's heads, even if it only exists as inspiration for a different system

 

Focusing on the 20-30 hour crowd isn't a bad thing, especially at this stage of development. There seems to be enough content being added to keep people going long after that.

 

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I hope I never see a further discussion on this topic.

 

Too late :-)

[DaVegaNL]

Speaking of the 20-30 hours thing.. That's probably the time I spend in A17 Compared to the 1000 hours pre-A17 versions..

 

I don't know.. the game just doesn't attract me much lately..

And the latest game from Paradox coming out next week doesn't help much either!

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

 

It's the RWG for me. I can't look at it without dying a little inside. "La petite morte" as the French might say... wait... that might not be right :-)

 

I'm patient though, I'm happy to wait until it's fixed.

[mr.natural]

Got the same problem, after I reached level 20 the vanilla game become straightforward boring because I got OP with all the gear I found and made. never played it since, only mods ATM.

[madmole]

Less is in fact always less. Many times it seems people thats who say less is more are actually just incapable of more - such as a bad drummer or guitarist. "LESS IS MORE DUDE!" That being said, the real talent is to know when less is better, to let something else stand out for example.

 

Less could be fun, it could be easier, it could be better..... however less is always less. And yes, sometimes less sucks.

 

I get your point, but ok, less can sometimes be better.

[Ouch Quit It]

Thats exactly what I think A17 was...a rush to get the game as close to gold as possible for a 20-30 hour player. A17 totally ruined the game for me and made it a grindy boring same old same old game like everything else out there. I havent played since, along with a group of another 10 on my server. TFP nailed their 20 hour player mark and lost long time players ...since A5 ..all in one iteration. Why wasnt A17 well received....the year and a half wait was supoosed to be worth it.....it wasnt and underwhelmed. Updates were supposed to come more regularly...and here we are waiting again for another complete rewrite of broken systems...so close to gold. I dont buy it...A17 was a big ooops that broke the game and now we are supposed to believe that these were just place holders after being told it was the best iteration to date. My faith is in the modders to fix a broken game.

 

Regards

Ouch

 

Ahem * underwhelmed * ahem

[meganoth]

When I started to play Factorio ~2 years ago, it was like I found my destiny. I thought this was the game I had waited for all my life. I sunk hundreds of hours into it. Nowadays I still play it once a week with 2 co-op friends, but the magic is missing, I really have to search for something worthwhile to do. Something definitely is missing.

 

Now unlike 7D2D in Factorio there never was a major redesign. It is the same game as it was 2 years ago. I changed.

[Ouch Quit It]

Dont go changing...to try and please me...

[TylerDB]

and Tomahawks do throw VERY well

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28181[/ATTACH]

 

This would be a fun find in those archeological sites haha

[madmole]

This may be true but those noobs turn into 1000 plus hour gamers. IF there is a reason to. We had reason to. We didnt gain our 1000 plus playing A17, we gained it playing a game that for 16 alphas your team and yourself thought good enough to present.

 

So now the shift in focus is to lure the new gamers in, practically abandoning the majority of your long time fans and community. Things like farming and mining are not supposed to be noob friendly. If you make EVERYTHING noob friendly then what kind of game do you have left?

 

I find it hilarious you often put down Ark as stupid. Its not the first time you have posted this. Yet look at Arks numbers. Several years later they hold quite strong. And they retain their core community because they dont reinvent the wheel. They add to it, make it more complex and give people reasons to come back, reasons to stay in game longer and reasons to progress. 7 Days is quickly running out of these reasons.

 

There used to be a time when wiping hurt. Because things took a while to learn and achieve. Now it seems like wiping isnt so bad because in a few days you will have it all back again.

 

Ill always be a fan of you and this game but it saddens me. I know Im not the target audience anymore. How long anyone plays this game for means nothing to you and the team. Its the sale. You make no more if they play 10 minutes or 10 years. Lets just hope all these new customers become the die hards we used to be so the positive word of mouth can be passed down to a new generation.

Dude chillax. There is no shift in focus, I'm trying to teach you guys some game design. I didn't say I was dumbing down farming, I said there is no reason to complicate it and alienate new players, something that SHOULD be a concern to you if you want an amazing sequel we need to finish 7 Days in a way that profits and has the most mass appeal. You always have to ask yourself, is this needlessly complicated? Do I need a wiki or youtube tutorial to understand it?

 

I love Ark, but is it perfect? Hell no its stupid as ♥♥♥♥ in a lot of ways but with a few mods and some good friends to play with it can be pretty fun. Having to run pipes with their crappy building system and feed the dino stuff to make him ♥♥♥♥ is just too much. You can't even plant in the dirt, so whatever. Its not farming its a greenhouse simulator. Then the 12 hours it takes to tame? Ridiculous small stack counts? Very few things from Ark have inspired our design choices, that is for sure.

 

Then they sold scorched earth as a dlc before releasing a season pass. Literally screwed customers. Then the flier nerf. I could go on and on about a lot of klunky systems it has. None of this stopped me from enjoying it for the systems that were fun. Well it did initially, but some friends told me with mods and and options its fun so I came back and got over the learning curve and got a lot of hours in it then.

 

Our game will always be hard and a challenge, but it should be accessible and not impossible to learn. We totally care about all the fans, but a lot of you are so bored you are here instead of enjoying the game, and idle hands are the devils workshop.

 

Skyrim is an amazing game but I have 2000 hours so the only thing keeping it remotely interesting is mods, roleplay and weird builds. You sir are at that point where you want the game to scratch that itch, but it just can't. It can't. All you can do is shelf it and come back later and hope to feel a bit of that magic one more time. Its just the normal process. Games aren't intended to last 10000 hours. Its interesting when they do but at a certain point people need new stimulus, like a sequel. Skyrim was the only thing that fixed why I was bored with Oblivion, despite having some great mods. Once you log so many hours it gets harder and harder to find the magic. People aren't meant to do the same crap over and over again, we're meant to learn new things and expand and grow.

[madmole]

Well as of right now it is correct... and is until A18 exists. Besides, I wasn't just referring to combat. I know these days when people think 7D2D you think zombie killing... but for most of us it's also mining, resource gathering, building... of which you need to have a nice balance of to play single player.

 

No you only need two attributes to do that. How does that make you a jack of all trades?

[BadabingbadaBOOMSDAY!]

Gifff 17.3......Gifff

[madmole]

Yes. The devs have already stated that they are making many more POI's and that many are not going to be the dungeion style that we got with many of the new POI's added in 17.

 

So, what is your point then? The old POI's are terrible as they were not final products. New POI's are coming that will fill the simple POI role.

 

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MM,

 

I have seen little to nothing posted on solar power for a long time. Right now, solar is utterly useless because the performance impact is insane on even simple circuits. I really, really, REALLY want to convert to a renewable power system but it is just not feasible at the moment. Is there any indication on when this may change if at all? Are there any additions that you guys really think is going to be made to electrical options?

I'm having the testers see if they can reproduce this.

[madmole]

Agree completely. Simple elegance is always the desired outcome.

 

Yes and when I talk about this some forum rats act like we're ♥♥♥♥ting on the veteran players lol. Better designs are better designs.

[madmole]

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

What's good atm is that you start off as a weakling however, after hard work and time you can become a terminator. You have earned it as you have fought off all and survived. Having these limits just limits fun. The first thing I'll do in A18 is have to increase the points given for leveling up. If the game only gets harder, then why can't I?

 

I'm sorry what sounds terrible?

[madmole]

You've mentioned that there will be a melee weapon and a ranged weapon for each attribute - but how will that work for armour? Are you planning on having a different armour type per attribute too, or just sticking to a couple of perks for "light" and "heavy" armour?

 

If you want armor wear it. It just won't be as awesome until you perk into it. Most players will want two or more attributes pretty high, but it won't be impossible to have just one high attribute and be pretty kickass. There is basically sniper, shotgunner, machinegunner, bowman stealth handgun guy, and turret/taser nerd.

[madmole]

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

Exactly this.

[Damocles]

Having a hand to hand perk and boost (knuckles) would be great. In Skyrim I have always tried to be a dedicated boxer.

[madmole]

You read that different than I did. He did not state you cannot be good at multiple things - he stated that you only HAVE to be good at one thing. There is a massive difference. In 17.2, being a per character simply is not viable. At least not viable if you want to explore the game.

Why? Because mining is under str and crafting is under int - building and crafting a huge parts of gameplay. It sounds to me like they are addressing that by making a specialized build quite viable for the whole game - your crafting and options will be open even if you are a very heavy per player. You are still going to branch out.

 

Overall, what I want to see out of the progression system is a bunch of perks that I really want and have some open ended options. Right now I feel like the perk system is set - most perks have already been chosen for me because they are so integral into gameplay.

 

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You know roland - you did not need to beat me to the punch

I think the books will help give you some complimentary perks that really flesh out most peoples ideal play styles and enhance the perks.

[madmole]

I agree with the biker and the caveman...thats bull♥♥♥♥ to toss out long time players ...we helped make the game what it is and to be tossed aside makes me doubt future purchases of TFP. Classic games are made from the support of fans/players....but you did say you were aiming for the 20 hour players...now we know you meant it. Sad

 

Holy ♥♥♥♥ you win misinterpretation of the year award. How does focusing on polishing the game hurt the veterans who crawled over broken glass to play this game? It improves the experience for everyone. How can anyone become a veteran if the first experience isn't fun? Are you angry that new players won't get stuttering and crashes? We're aiming at making sure the first 20 hours are a blast, so they can become 2000 hour guys. JEEZ COUGH COUGH

[madmole]

Twas I good sir. It came to my attention that mines were in a bit of a crum-a-grackle. Yes, they are quite limpsey at giving zomboys a good razzleling I'd say.

 

LOL. I do know explosives are pretty fixed. I have to shoot some rockets to verify, but I heard it was pretty cool.

[madmole]

I don't think they are just tossing aside the longtime players at all, at least I don't see it that way.

They have been making modding more robust, It might not end up being everything we would like it to be, in every area, but that's anything but tossing aside the long timers.

 

As for them focusing on the 20hr game.. yeah, that's a bit disappointing but,"It is What it is" and not uncommon with most of the games on the market. I took them at their word when they said this awhile ago, so I didn't hold much hope they would deviate from it all that much.

Anyhow, even with them going after the 20hr game, the game already provide more than 20hrs of play. All the long time players with 1000's of hours in, are proof of that.

 

heh, even games that say they have 60+hrs of game play, blah blah blah.. really don't. If you play them straight through and don't bother with all the side stuff that doesn't really matter in those games, it's really more than 20hrs as well. I've play many of them.

 

I just don't really understand why people are getting hurt and feeling rebuffed when they say that is all.

lol I'm probably the weird one I guess.

Its not like our updates go back in time and strip them of the fun they had. I think they misinterpret polish up the first twenty hours to be AA, to cut it down to a 20 hour experience?

[madmole]

Thats too bad. I was just thiking that the traps would be end game stuff, big versions of tiny traps and fences but very expensive to make like tank trap spike would be 300 steels to craft and high durability. For fire barrels have spikes on the side that would impale zombies and burn them while there stuck on it. Ijust want fire barrels to be usefull for something else not just light source.

 

But im excited to your flamethrower and bear traps.

Thank you MM!

Keep up the good work!!!

A18 HYPED.

 

Maybe more stuff later, I don't have a crystal ball. I need to get the game to where I'm engaged to play some late game stuff and then I'm sure I'll be inspired to make more late game content. I feel like I need to get the first 100 hours feeling tight though, then move on to that.