Who's given up on crafting?

[Jackelmyer]

Have most people come to the realization that crafting skills are pointless now and game play should revolve around traders?

 

If you level up for crafting, you're skills are out paced by zombie difficulty. And you can buy anything.

 

Is this the conclusion for most people?

[manni44]

i only craft ammo, nothing else realy. but only because traders dont have the amount of ammo i need.

[RipClaw]

Have most people come to the realization that crafting skills are pointless now and game play should revolve around traders?

 

If you level up for crafting, you're skills are out paced by zombie difficulty. And you can buy anything.

 

Is this the conclusion for most people?

 

The only thing I buy from the trader is what I still can't make or what raw materials are not available in large quantities.

 

Since most of the time the traders only offer junk at inflated prices, I prefer to invest in my own crafting skills.

In addition, I need material for my bases in quantities that a trader could not supply.

 

A nomad might get along with what the traders offer but someone who wants to build decent bases needs his own production.

[Roland]

The developers are introducing multiple ways to get what you want so that someone doesn't need to put points into crafting if they don't want to. For someone who isn't concerned about which way is the most efficient, this provides two different ways to play the game.

 

So it is true that you don't need to craft but after playing a few times using the trader exclusively you might decide to change things up and ignore the trader and go the crafting route. Or if you decide you are tired of sinking points into intelligence every single game you could try one where you ignore intelligence and rely on the trader instead. Or you could do some of both.

[LuckyStar]

The developers are introducing multiple ways to get what you want so that someone doesn't need to put points into crafting if they don't want to. For someone who isn't concerned about which way is the most efficient, this provides two different ways to play the game.

 

So it is true that you don't need to craft but after playing a few times using the trader exclusively you might decide to change things up and ignore the trader and go the crafting route. Or if you decide you are tired of sinking points into intelligence every single game you could try one where you ignore intelligence and rely on the trader instead. Or you could do some of both.

 

I'm loving this.

 

It gives people opportunity to play the way they like.

 

I use both.

 

I trade and I make my own stuff.

Normally I make such large builds that I need to get whatever I can from any source available.

 

Glad TFP made these changes.

[PoppaTot]

I still craft everything, and try to only use the trader for coin so I can buy food from vending machines tbh. I'd get too bored playing the trader game. I'll buy blade traps and turrets too if I have the coin and am not of level to craft them yet. Also, crafting high tier armor and throwing mods in it while crafting tons of ammo and guns makes POIs doable too without being perked into strength too much.

[RestInPieces]

For someone who isn't concerned about which way is the most efficient, this provides two different ways to play the game.

 

When will you learn...........

[BobTheBard]

The devs introduced two methods to getting the stuff you need, and I support that - I used to think 'traders are so OP' before I realized that they're supposed to be, since they're meant as an equal alternative to crafting. Crafting is slower and requires heavier investment, but is more reliable - Once you get your crafting skills you can make as much of the thing as you need, as often as you want, as long as you have the base resources to cover the expense. When you play the trader game it's more of a gamble - You can sink more investment into your combat abilities and focus more on fighting, but you're also gambling that the trader will have the things you need and they might not, and instead of spending your resource-gathering time mining and chopping you spend it fighting and driving. It's a different playstyle with a different cadence.

[Jackelmyer]

I still craft everything, and try to only use the trader for coin so I can buy food from vending machines tbh. I'd get too bored playing the trader game. I'll buy blade traps and turrets too if I have the coin and am not of level to craft them yet. Also, crafting high tier armor and throwing mods in it while crafting tons of ammo and guns makes POIs doable too without being perked into strength too much.

 

Man I don't even understand how you do that. Before I hit week 3 horde night, I'm level 50+ still running with a reinforced club. I got jumped by three ferals and between being to vested in crafting, not being able to get you a spiked club or equivalent, and the buggy hit boxes, I was screwed. And that was a basic non dungeon crawl POI.

 

Do you spend your initial points maxing or heavily investing in combat? I suppose you could get through week 3 maybe even 4 on cobble stone. But iron tools are so damn expensive to get to alone plus strength and miner 69er maxing.

 

The intuitive nature of this game went right out the door in A17. Like... Completely out the door

[Jackelmyer]

The devs introduced two methods to getting the stuff you need, and I support that - I used to think 'traders are so OP' before I realized that they're supposed to be, since they're meant as an equal alternative to crafting. Crafting is slower and requires heavier investment, but is more reliable - Once you get your crafting skills you can make as much of the thing as you need, as often as you want, as long as you have the base resources to cover the expense. When you play the trader game it's more of a gamble - You can sink more investment into your combat abilities and focus more on fighting, but you're also gambling that the trader will have the things you need and they might not, and instead of spending your resource-gathering time mining and chopping you spend it fighting and driving. It's a different playstyle with a different cadence.

 

Personally I think iron and mining skills are too expensive for a builder/crafter game play.

 

If you do the Int and Straight costs for Miner 69er to even 4, iron tool crafting, and workbench, plus the stamina skills that you're pretty much required to have now, you just get out paced by zombies.

[Cirion]

This is why A16 in some ways was vastly superior ... In my opinion of course.

 

In A16 you got mining skillups by... mining... who woulda thought it? To me it just felt so satisfying to feel the gradual increase in mining skill as you continued to mine. I no longer feel that satisfaction from a zero-dimensional oh I'll just spend points on mining system. That's just me though. Not to mention, you're spending valuable level up points doing that.

[Jackelmyer]

I hear ya. Though even that probably wouldn't fix how A17 went sideways with everything. LBD wasn't really why. It was that regardless how you got the skills, the world better paced with the player.

[HungryZombie]

This is why A16 in some ways was vastly superior ... In my opinion of course.

 

In A16 you got mining skillups by... mining... who woulda thought it? To me it just felt so satisfying to feel the gradual increase in mining skill as you continued to mine. I no longer feel that satisfaction from a zero-dimensional oh I'll just spend points on mining system. That's just me though. Not to mention, you're spending valuable level up points doing that.

 

I used to not really care one way or another but after playing A16 again recently to try out a mod I did find the old learn by doing much more satisfying overall.

[Cirion]

Yeah, in A16 I really had almost no complaints with the scaling of gamestage. Green zombies have always been annoying, but I really don't recall them showing up until much later on in the game in A16. There was no massive concern about being unprepared for them, like there is in A17.

[Jackelmyer]

To me it just felt so satisfying to feel the gradual increase in mining skill as you continued to mine. I no longer feel that satisfaction from a zero-dimensional oh I'll just spend points on mining system.

 

Totally skimmed that. But rereading and thinking about it, I can really understand that. I do recall feeling a notable satisfaction in being near Max mining and thinking about how much better quality of life in the game play got.

 

I think the mods actually make it worse. The skills can only help so much. So with mods, benefits of skills had to get nerfed, especially in something like mining. TFP has long wanted to avoid players one hitting stones and using a pick axe to move at run speed while digging stone underground. Which, as far as I can tell, you still can't get to that point in A17. Even with mods.

 

So... Skills... Gotta get nerfed. To support all the new mods. Which... I frankly didn't even want. Its all put a complete haze over feeling any reward for making progress on a character build.

 

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Yeah, in A16 I really had almost no complaints with the scaling of gamestage. Green zombies have always been annoying, but I really don't recall them showing up until much later on in the game in A16. There was no massive concern about being unprepared for them, like there is in A17.

 

Absolutely agree

[PoppaTot]

Man I don't even understand how you do that. Before I hit week 3 horde night, I'm level 50+ still running with a reinforced club. I got jumped by three ferals and between being to vested in crafting, not being able to get you a spiked club or equivalent, and the buggy hit boxes, I was screwed. And that was a basic non dungeon crawl POI.

 

Do you spend your initial points maxing or heavily investing in combat? I suppose you could get through week 3 maybe even 4 on cobble stone. But iron tools are so damn expensive to get to alone plus strength and miner 69er maxing.

 

The intuitive nature of this game went right out the door in A17. Like... Completely out the door

 

I will put a couple points into strength for for the mining perks and backpack. Other than that I do pretty well with the compound bow with steel arrows (tons of them in cars) and pistol/shotgun (ammo everywhere). When mining the levels go super quick.

 

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on my dedicated server that I stream on I didn't die until level 77ish and that was only because of microstutter when I was fighting a rad biker smh

[Jackelmyer]

I will put a couple points into strength for for the mining perks and backpack. Other than that I do pretty well with the compound bow with steel arrows (tons of them in cars) and pistol/shotgun (ammo everywhere). When mining the levels go super quick.

 

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on my dedicated server that I stream on I didn't die until level 77ish and that was only because of microstutter when I was fighting a rad biker smh

 

How quickly do you run up to iron tools? I wasn't able to find a single iron tool until day 12 when at that point I was able to make them. And I'm still on the wooden bows because... Repair Kits... With so much stuff needing a repair kit to fix and the cost to get a chem station in my base, I figured I should just sit on primitive tools and weapons till I could start manufacturering the stuff to replace it.

 

I think one things a bit more needed in A17.

 

A How To Play Guide. Wasn't needed before. Sure is now.

[PoppaTot]

How quickly do you run up to iron tools? I wasn't able to find a single iron tool until day 12 when at that point I was able to make them. And I'm still on the wooden bows because... Repair Kits... With so much stuff needing a repair kit to fix and the cost to get a chem station in my base, I figured I should just sit on primitive tools and weapons till I could start manufacturering the stuff to replace it.

 

I think one things a bit more needed in A17.

 

A How To Play Guide. Wasn't needed before. Sure is now.

 

I know where a lot of the Stiffy boxes are so I will try to hit them asap. But I still rush to unlock iron tool crafting asap (except on my YT series, playing that one slower). Repair kits are pretty easy to get supplies to craft them. Just find a road and spend a day walking it collecting the gore bags and you'll be set with bones for a bit, bones=glue=duct tape=repair kits. You can now craft glue in the campfire with a 1:1 ratio. No chemstation needed for it.

 

I should put together a "Quick Road to Level 10" video on my YT lol. I'm pretty proficient at it now.

[Royal Deluxe]

i played a 7,7,5,5,10 Char last game (x64 horde killed me on day 35 )

 

And besides the green armys in pois that cost you too much ammo and deny suspense.

Its fine playable.

 

This moment i see 3 balance issues

1: Too many green Zombies in pois (topic of a other current thread)

2: Too less ammo caused by point 1

3: The Auger and "rad remover mod" are too much luck dependent

 

2 and 3 i try to solve in my mod this moment (a quest given Vending machine that offers additional ammo to buy. And quests (received at startgame) that give fixed some items like "Kill 100 Zombies and get a Q2 Auger", "Kill 1000 Zombies and get a Q5 Auger". I still consider how i will do it

[Jackelmyer]

I know where a lot of the Stiffy boxes are so I will try to hit them asap. But I still rush to unlock iron tool crafting asap (except on my YT series, playing that one slower). Repair kits are pretty easy to get supplies to craft them. Just find a road and spend a day walking it collecting the gore bags and you'll be set with bones for a bit, bones=glue=duct tape=repair kits. You can now craft glue in the campfire with a 1:1 ratio. No chemstation needed for it.

 

I should put together a "Quick Road to Level 10" video on my YT lol. I'm pretty proficient at it now.

 

Go to level 20+. Lol. Need to fit in iron tools.

[Hek Harris]

I receive an auger or a chainsaw each time I finish a tier 5 quest. Just take the "retrieve the supply" or "fetch" quest and you'll get your purple auger .

[meganoth]

Man I don't even understand how you do that. Before I hit week 3 horde night, I'm level 50+ still running with a reinforced club. I got jumped by three ferals and between being to vested in crafting, not being able to get you a spiked club or equivalent, and the buggy hit boxes, I was screwed. And that was a basic non dungeon crawl POI.

 

Do you spend your initial points maxing or heavily investing in combat? I suppose you could get through week 3 maybe even 4 on cobble stone. But iron tools are so damn expensive to get to alone plus strength and miner 69er maxing.

 

What do you mean by miner69er maxing? Maybe here is your problem:

 

1) For resource gathering mother load is the important perk, miner69 is only important if you want to open safes faster or build loooong tunnels.

2) Early and mid game you don't need to immediately max strength and mother load, just getting mother load to 2 or 3 is enough to get you decent resources per night. Instead get iron tools from quests or traders or build them with nerdy glasses equipped.

[PoppaTot]

Go to level 20+. Lol. Need to fit in iron tools.

 

fair lol, but I really should do it. I think it would be an interesting challenge to see how quick I can get to Iron Tools. I always feel like it's quick, let's find out lol.

[Jackelmyer]

i played a 7,7,5,5,10 Char last game (x64 horde killed me on day 35 )

 

And besides the green armys in pois that cost you too much ammo and deny suspense.

Its fine playable.

 

This moment i see 3 balance issues

1: Too many green Zombies in pois (topic of a other current thread)

2: Too less ammo caused by point 1

3: The Auger and "rad remover mod" are too much luck dependent

 

2 and 3 i try to solve in my mod this moment (a quest given Vending machine that offers additional ammo to buy. And quests (received at startgame) that give fixed some items like "Kill 100 Zombies and get a Q2 Auger", "Kill 1000 Zombies and get a Q5 Auger". I still consider how i will do it

 

I can understand that game play. I don't think it's for me as 100 zombies is way too easy in my world to get an auger. I liked the slower A16 progression. And j rarely used an auger... Cause... Repair kits... Damn durability made a Vanilla Auger worthless.

 

I actually found a rad remover mod but I haven't hit rad zombies yet. I mean, I hit one in a stupid dungeon crawl and was like "F that. I'm not dungeon crawling anymore". lol

 

Bullet Sponge zombies even at day 18 and only lvl 50+ seem like they're coming for sure. I don't feel like I've got a good grip on repair kit supplies or ammo supplies so I'm still basically stuck in the iron and stone ages on tools and weapons.

 

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fair lol, but I really should do it. I think it would be an interesting challenge to see how quick I can get to Iron Tools. I always feel like it's quick, let's find out lol.

 

Agreed. Though I bet if you do it multiple times, the speed to Iron Tools is going to be the same no matter how you tackle it.

 

More telling I think is going to be avoid traders and vending machines all together. That's almost always been my play style and I'm certainly getting screwed for it in A17.

[fishjie]

I am definitely frustrated with crafting. To get steel armor in A17 requires maxing out intelligence. Ok that's fine, except with the level scaling, those are precious points I could've put into heavy armor, healing factor, fortitude, agility, cardio, perception, sneak attacks, and other stuff that would allow me to safely fight the hordes of green zombies infesting every POI. my friends and i we like to craft and got punished for it. so yeah, trader route is the way to go. unfortunately you have to be survivable first before thinking about putting points into intelligence, whereas in a16 and a15 this was not the case. i was able to level toolsmithing, weapon smithing, armor smithing, at the same time i increased skills with sledgehammer, bows, and etc, while increasing max hp and stamina with food and relevant perks