Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[DiesFourth]

Alot of ppl think they know what every one else wants or at least a large %.

 

How about an official poll with a few options of the level of challenge people would prefer to play at ?

 

Using 17.1 B8 as a base line and a few other options perhaps like

 

A few diggers

 

no diggers

 

Current super intelligent zombies

 

Not quite so smart zombies

 

ect ect

 

Im not questioning the direction of the game just who the team is ultimately targeting.

 

I like a challenge but it feels like we dont stand a chance unless we somehow discover the next ultra base, or not play until some1 else does and copy it exactly

[OzHawkeye]

Alot of ppl think they know what every one else wants or at least a large %.

 

Well, the best way out of that conundrum, is simply to make the game as moddable as possible, which the Pimps have been more or less doing. Hopefully by Gold, even modifications to core mechanics will be, at most, no more than an XML edit away.

[RipClaw]

The Pimps have talked about adding an option in for Blood Moon frequency, going from daily the way down to never (which is effectively what building an underground base in A16 entailed), so this perhaps can be the solution for those wanting a completely safe base.

 

All the players I know who had an underground base fought the horde mostly in a separate horde base. Some even ran around on the street and fought the Horde without a base.

 

I think what people liked most was the possibility to choose. If they didn't have time to prepare for the horde or just weren't in the mood to fight the horde, they could sit them out. They could even go into the mine and work productively while the horde rampaged on top of them.

 

Another advantage of a safe base is that you can also relax. If you're constantly under tension, it tires you out very quickly. That's why successful games often change pace. You have challenging phases, phases in which you have to think and phases in which you can just relax and get a story told.

 

I also think that a "Dig / No Dig" option here would bring more relaxation into the discussion.

[Katitof]

Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.

Well, they want that, they need to turn zombies off them.

Hordes that hunt you is integral part of the game, if people don't like that, they play wrong game.

[HungryZombie]

I understand the devs POV, but alot of ppl dont have basically unlimited playtime and alot play with thier kids of all ages.

 

The issue i see is casual gamers that dont have endless hours to test/find the one " new " design that works : (

 

Does lowering the difficulty simply prolong the time b4 no base design works any longer ?

 

So if the pimps are trying to challenge the high end HC player will there be options for the many other groups of players ( besides exrensive .xml editing ) that lowers the challenge AND allows for long term family bases that arent wiped off the face of the map by night 70 ?

 

1 think i'd like to add, our base design guy ( Mytheos ) literally spends 100's of hours in creative SP alone designing and testing new designs. He does it but he HAS to do it so often now hes getting burned out : (

 

When he does come out I try to help him build the new design on our public PVP MP server.

 

Even when players know what design works it takes HOURS upon HOURS to gather materials for construction. Along with the new gated items like steel and automated traps, players imo can get frustrated if they have to search and test for days and days to design/gather/mats and construct a design that fails in less than 2 minutes due to super organized analytical zombies smarter than Sherlock Holmes.

 

And from what im getting the average players are supposed to wait for the super players to come up with new design and copy that..... what if average players never have access to that " new design " some1 spent 40 hours to discover/test ?

 

I have 3k hours in this game and love it, but it seems to me like the team is making a game for the super player HC and leaving the casual family players behind or allowing them to die endlessly because they dont have engineering degrees and 100 hours to find that new one design that works.

 

While forcing players to be creative your imo making it so only a very small % of creativity is actually valid.

 

With out heavy editing will there be a way for this game to be fun for everyone again and just not the developers?

 

It seems like video gaming is similar to driving. Everyone driving faster than me is crazy and everyone driving slower than me is an a-hole. (RIP George Carlin)

[HungryZombie]

You not understanding the community here. If zombies were not allowed in the Burnt Forest biome a huge chunk of people here would build there and be happy and not care about digging zombies.

 

Its not that they are dying to build underground, they are dying to build in a place where zombies cant reach them. Never underestimate how challenge adverse most of this community is.

 

I think maybe The Fun Pimps underestimated how cool their game is WITHOUT the 7 day horde. Many people would buy this game if it was A16 with no horde.

 

Now they are adding an option (i think) to turn the horde off so everyone will be happy. We just have to wait a little bit. I'll probably play no horde myself as the 7 day horde is boring for me. I like to explore.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Well, they want that, they need to turn zombies off them.

Hordes that hunt you is integral part of the game, if people don't like that, they play wrong game.

 

I can understand your confusion and it's very hard to explain but there's a niche of person like myself that love the game exactly as it is, but don't want the 7 day horde to dig down to their base. The Fun Pimps have heard and are adding more options for those players so your premise is mistaken.

 

It's like how I can't understand how anyone could enjoy bubblegum ice cream (yuck!)

[Roland]

My, ad hominem attacks? Really? Could you not craft a substantial argument that was related to the thread at hand, or was evidence so underwhelming you had no other choice? One of the commonly held philosphical tenents is that when ad hominem attcks start, the debate is over and the fight begins.

 

As for your claim, put your money where your mouth is: Post your underground base. Show us how it's done.

 

Me, I can point to video after video showing groups of zombies digging down a single column faster than a player can with an auger. That's not immersion breaking at all. Totally within the zombie genre. Perhaps we can skip to the end and reskin all the zombies as T-1000's?

 

Not an attack. Just the way it is in life, my friend. There are those who give up without trying and call challenges insurmountable and impossible and there are those who get to work and through innovation and creativity they do what the first group proclaims is impossible.

 

I’m sorry but this has been going on since A17 drooped. People proclaiming building particular bases impossible even as others are building those very same bases successfully. Someone posting that getting into your own base now is impossible but several others explaining how to easily do just that only to be accused of trying to 1up the OP.

 

Please, enlighten me on the reason there is a first group that gives up and proclaims things impossible before even trying while another group is successfully doing those very same things and posting how they are doing them?

 

I think it’s obvious. You feel it’s an ad hominem attack. I just think it’s a fact of life and I’m not even being condescending about it because I don’t claim to even be a member of the second group. I’m perfectly happy to read about the cool strategies people come up with and try them out myself. I just know that when people start proclaiming challenges to be impossible within minutes or hours of being exposed to it they almost always turn out to be wrong.

 

I don’t disrespect them for not being able to see the solution as long as they take the attitude of asking questions in the hopes of learning. Sadly, that is not the attitude of most of these threads accusing the devs of taking away building options.

[Kattla]

. Someone posting that getting into your own base now is impossible but several others explaining how to easily do just that only to be accused of trying to 1up the OP.

 

What is this "1up" thing?

[12pack]

What is this "1up" thing?

 

anything you can do, i can do better

[canadianbluebeer]

I do want the ability to turn OFF digging zombies.

 

Turn them off until I get the base setup (or the mine going), then turn it on for bloodmoon.

 

I didn't avoid the bloodmoons before (LOOT!!) and now it'll be for XP.

 

Will see how the AI progresses. In the meantime, I haz my machinegun.

[Roland]

What is this "1up" thing?

 

Translation: I’ve already decided it’s impossible so I’m asking how it is possible rhetorically and if you actually answer my question you’re being condescending.

[DiesFourth]

From the steam forums, feedback on Rolands explanations and or comments.

 

surprisingly its quite productive and civil.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3441214221469076353/?tscn=1547485881

[MrVecetti]

The game is called "7days to die" so it's clearly the developers intention for the game to try and kill you on day 7.. hence the game title.. I fully support the developers in getting rid of any exploits for blood moons. I disagree with you saying the game forces you into 1 style to play. The game is mostly build around blood moons which is when the game will try to kill you.

 

There are options to set the zombie speed to walk speed and difficulty settings to lower your gamestage progress. But complaining about exploits being fixed is absurd as far as i'm concerned.

[Roland]

From the steam forums, feedback on Rolands explanations and or comments.

 

surprisingly its quite productive and civil.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3441214221469076353/?tscn=1547485881

 

I'm not in a position right now to easily respond over there but I do want to answer the accusation that I'm "blaming the player instead of the game" and saying "git gud" to casuals. I will admit that IF building bases in a variety of ways really and truly is impossible (including having a viable underground blood moon defense base) then I do agree that it is the game's fault and not the player's fault.

 

But it isn't impossible.

 

That is my point. The assertion that there is but one way to build a base now because the devs have nerfed all but the one strategy they want us to use is false from the get go. If the update had just released moments ago then those saying "It's impossible!!!" might have a potentially viable case since it could turn out to be true. But at the time of this thread's writing it had already been disproven and every day people are finding new ways to build a defense that is new. So to continue this narrative that there is only one way to build at this point is particularly closed-minded.

 

As for casuals, I am not telling those of you with limited time to play to just "git gud". I'm telling you that there are already youtubes you can watch, threads you can read, diagrams that you can analyze already posted by the people who like to solve these challenges and all you need to do is pick a design and go with it and maybe even alter it slightly to make it your own. And let's please not pretend that watching what others do is a sign of bad design of A17 because people have been posting their build strategies since A1 and other people have been thankfully using those strategies in their own game even though they didn't figure them out themselves. Sharing of ideas is a huge part of this community or was until the few threads started on A17 strategy got sidelined by threads screaming, "It's IMPOSSIBLE"

 

The game got more difficult and the re-learning curve got more steep but it is still the same song and dance of every single alpha update. People flounder and then they learn and then it all feels too easy. I have no doubt that there will be many many base designs and blood moon defense strategies to choose from by time A18 begins and our song starts playing again.

[DiesFourth]

I'm not in a position right now to easily respond over there but I do want to answer the accusation that I'm "blaming the player instead of the game" and saying "git gud" to casuals. I will admit that IF building bases in a variety of ways really and truly is impossible (including having a viable underground blood moon defense base) then I do agree that it is the game's fault and not the player's fault.

 

But it isn't impossible.

 

That is my point. The assertion that there is but one way to build a base now because the devs have nerfed all but the one strategy they want us to use is false from the get go. If the update had just released moments ago then those saying "It's impossible!!!" might have a potentially viable case since it could turn out to be true. But at the time of this thread's writing it had already been disproven and every day people are finding new ways to build a defense that is new. So to continue this narrative that there is only one way to build at this point is particularly closed-minded.

 

As for casuals, I am not telling those of you with limited time to play to just "git gud". I'm telling you that there are already youtubes you can watch, threads you can read, diagrams that you can analyze already posted by the people who like to solve these challenges and all you need to do is pick a design and go with it and maybe even alter it slightly to make it your own. And let's please not pretend that watching what others do is a sign of bad design of A17 because people have been posting their build strategies since A1 and other people have been thankfully using those strategies in their own game even though they didn't figure them out themselves. Sharing of ideas is a huge part of this community or was until the few threads started on A17 strategy got sidelined by threads screaming, "It's IMPOSSIBLE"

 

The game got more difficult and the re-learning curve got more steep but it is still the same song and dance of every single alpha update. People flounder and then they learn and then it all feels too easy. I have no doubt that there will be many many base designs and blood moon defense strategies to choose from by time A18 begins and our song starts playing again.

 

 

He does have a point im afraid.

 

Although it seems ramps were nerfed out of existance with some testing i found if you lower the gap from zombies jumping 3 blocks to 1 block they will still loop endlessly........ Periodically 1 will stop to swipe at something structural but overall the ramp loop still works

 

We also had an underground fall damage zombie chewing tunnel with blade anddart traps that also wasuntouchable by zombies.

 

My POV is this............... using one of the few designs that works currently isnt innovative or exciting. Its simply adapting to an ever growing super zombie with hive like silent communication and 3d laser scanning from 100 meters away architectural genious capabilities that magically use soft tissue and bone to destroy reinforced concrete like it was wet tissue paper and then dong the same to 8 more solid concrete walls in less than 1 minute, while suffering no loss of speed strength or endurance. w/e thier drinking i'll have a double please.

 

I get its a game but everyone playing similiar to everyone else cuz we have to isnt much fun imo.

 

Id like masses of zombies dumb as hell that just slowly overpower or overwhelm defences from all directions at once.

[art1336]

Thanks for your feedback. I think as time goes on the easy exploits that have been found regarding the new AI will be closed and a new variety of building options will be discovered by the players. Already we are seeing builds being reported by players that other players initially stated were impossible. Some players are leaders and love to experiment and discover the secrets and other players need those players to post their findings so they can have fun too.

 

Adaptation will result in many varieties of ways to defend against the enemies that want to kill you. What the developers don't want are methods that are too easy or don't require effort. It's not that they took your list of building strategies and threw darts at them. It is that they looked at general behaviors of zombies and decided what they wanted and what they didn't want.

 

They don't want zombies running in a loop so they will seek to fix situations that result in a loop.

 

They don't want zombies standing around or spinning in circles if they can't reach you. So they talked about it and felt that zombie going berserk and laying waste to nearby blocks was something that seemed fitting and would avoid the situation they didn't want.

 

They don't want zombies partitioned away from the underworld so they gave them the ability to dig.

 

They don't want zombies to be stopped by simple gaps so they gave them the ability to jump.

 

See? It's all about the zombie behavior they do and don't want. They are not directly trying to kill player options. What they hope is that players will rise to the challenge that the new behaviors create and come up with creative ways to defend. They don't want players to say, "I guess TFP doesn't want me to play underground." They do want players to say, "Wow, I wonder how I can be successful underground given the new abilities."

 

Now, as far as avoiding traps, I'm pretty sure TFP doesn't want them doing that and so I'm sure they will look at it. I can promise you that once they have the zombies behaving the way they want the zombies to behave they will call it quits and move on. They won't be continually trying to wreck every good player idea that comes along (unless it is a blatant exploit like the storage chest walls you mentioned)

 

I have to respectfully disagree with this disagreement. Yes, there were some exploits such as using zombie corpses to dupe items. That was fixed by removing the capability of zombies carrying loot. Now, if they "drop" loot, they spawn a container. Zombies can no longer contain loot, and can also not be harvested. A second step was taken a few builds into experimental to spawn gore blocks along the road to deal with the side effect of removing zombie loot.

But you never disagreed with the actual contention that the devs decided "Despite our players utilizing playstyle a, b, or c, we want them to do d so we will make a, b, and c nonworkable." Which is what happened. And then, as you said, it's about the zombie behavior that the devs, not the players, do or don't want. And when we do come up with creative ways, such as figuring out the pathing of zombies or some other game mechanic, that option will be removed.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we had playstyles, those playstyles have been penalized, and we are developing new ones that may or may not be penalized if the devs decide that they don't play the game the same way, or don't want us to play that way.

Personally, I loved my underground bases. I would have enjoyed if the devs had given me a challenge to rise to regarding that. I would have loved an air mechanic such as in Empyrion Galactic Survival. Maybe we need to provide ourselves with oxygen underground, maybe we have gas pockets to deal with, or even some burning lava. That would be a challenge to rise to. Instead if you happen to log in on a horde night and you're in your underground base the zeds will find a point in your tunnels that only has a single wooden block and they'll aim for that, rather than your enclosed concrete bunker you're in because they "know" where your blocks are, sixty meters below their feet.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The moral I'm getting from this thread is that when you find a tactic that works, that you consider to be clever but others might call an 'exploit', don't get all excited and stick videos of it on Youtube and start boasting about it. Just quietly use it, and the devs don't know it exists, they won't neutralise it.

 

This is the trick. I hate it when I see a cool trick or build on a video because I now know if I want to do that I best be quick before it is deemed undesirable.

[art1336]

I will just address this one and say that open world sandbox games do NOT mean you can IGNORE or SKIP the core rules of the world.

One of core rules is resource investment or active participation in 7 day hordes.

Its as core and as mandatory as hitting things to get resources, needing crafting station to craft advanced items, drinking and eating to keep yourself alife and getting exp to unlock new stuff.

 

Skipping any single thing of these is NOT a "sandbox player choice", its a cheat, exploit, hack.

 

If you don't want to participate in the horde and be safe, then build yourself enough traps to passively kill the Zs, exploiting AI to be 100% safe at all times is not "player choice", if you want it to be like that, then disable zombie spawns.

 

Using unintended exploits is not "player choice", its just that - an exploit, a cheat, an abuse of unintended AI behavior.

Yes, cheaging is also a "player choice" and a "playstyle", but don't expect it to never be addressed.

 

Open world sandbox doesn't mean no rules, if you want no rules to apply, play in debug mode with creative menu enabled.

 

If 7 day hordes could be exploited without your direct imput, without any effort, without any material use like in previous alphas, what would be the point to even have them?

You effectively cheated before, now you can't, you ignored basic world rule by exploiting, now you can't.

Playstyle was NOT removed, a cheat exploit was elliminated.

 

An issue was fixed, not playstyle removed, you like to be a mole, you can still be a mole, just don't expect to be invincible, invulnerable mole.

Risk vs reward.

 

Whereas I do agree with your general sentiment I do have to argue with your semantics. If I make a choice to exploit something, I have made a choice. And I am a player. It might be the wrong choice. It might be a choice you disagree with. But let's not pretend that making a choice is, erm, not making a choice.

And if digging an underground base in alpha 16 is somehow cheating, I fail to see how the reverse is true for taking over a poi and standing on the roof for your first seven day horde in 17. You know that you will be safe and will face no chance of dying so long as you don't fall over the edge.

 

Also, so far I do not know that the devs have given us their approved playstyle. I mean, we've seen them do some gameplay videos every so often, but they have yet to instruct us on their approved method of playing the game. So until the devs tell me that using a shovel and pick to dig is cheating, I am not sure I can believe that line.

[Hellsmoke]

All the players I know who had an underground base fought the horde mostly in a separate horde base. Some even ran around on the street and fought the Horde without a base.

 

I think what people liked most was the possibility to choose. If they didn't have time to prepare for the horde or just weren't in the mood to fight the horde, they could sit them out. They could even go into the mine and work productively while the horde rampaged on top of them.

 

Another advantage of a safe base is that you can also relax. If you're constantly under tension, it tires you out very quickly. That's why successful games often change pace. You have challenging phases, phases in which you have to think and phases in which you can just relax and get a story told.

 

I also think that a "Dig / No Dig" option here would bring more relaxation into the discussion.

 

Nailed it! This is exactly what it's about.

 

For those who continue to assume we want to be "completely safe", you are wrong. Everyone knows how to turn off the zombies and most people can mod enough to make indestructable blocks so if being safe is what people wanted they would do so.

 

I also agree that an option for hordes would be a good thing, as is now I would just disable them because the ai isn't working right and building a base to trick them which seems like the only valid option atm just isn't that fun to me.

 

I love to build don't get me wrong, I just like to combine looks with strength instead of building some ugly ramp thing so the ai doesn't chew through the base in seconds. That or loads of spikes that will mostly remain untouched because they all use the same path.

 

I'm not too upset about digging I just stopped building underground. For all those saying you can still build underground, sure you can. You will however have zombies digging down to you and that includes screamers which will show up regularly because people use these underground bases to craft and kill time at night.

 

You will often come up to find a group dug half way down, good luck getting them out of there and patching that up. Any of you see the prices on the ground blocks lately?

 

At the end of the day the ai isn't finished but as someone who has been playing a long time and has built a lot of bases..building lost a lot of appeal to me not only because of digging zombies but also because of the increased damage zombies do to blocks which I find to be even worse.

 

I don't know how to fix it or what the perfect horde should look like, all I know is I feel restricted in building this alpha due to the reasons stated above.

 

I can still survive, you don't need a base to survive. There are plenty of cheese tactics to survive and that is my point, if they patched the last remaining cheese by increasing damage to blocks or making zombies dig, I'd crack my knuckles and say "alright lets get to work". But they didn't patch all the cheese, all this change did was restrict building so far.

 

Someone posted that people on their server log out at horde night, that doesn't seem they are having fun which is the most important thing at the end of the day.

[Roland]

Someone posted that people on their server log out at horde night, that doesn't seem they are having fun which is the most important thing at the end of the day.

 

Someone has posted this since the beginning of horde nights. This can't be used to point at A17 specifically...

 

 

Bottom line is that the devs have announced plans to add in more options sooner than they originally planned in order to help everyone get through the rest of development.

 

There is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard, or that single ply tp your boss buys for the staff bathroom. Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17, will be able to lower that slider to the point that even the most basic shack with half damaged door will still take the zombies 3 weeks to break through.

 

So buck up. Everyone will get what they want sooner than we thought they would.

[Hellsmoke]

Someone has posted this since the beginning of horde nights. This can't be used to point at A17 specifically...

 

 

Bottom line is that the devs have announced plans to add in more options sooner than they originally planned in order to help everyone get through the rest of development.

 

There is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard, or that single ply tp your boss buys for the staff bathroom. Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17, will be able to lower that slider to the point that even the most basic shack with half damaged door will still take the zombies 3 weeks to break through.

 

So buck up. Everyone will get what they want sooner than we thought they would.

 

Oh yeah I'm sure they will figure it out, I don't doubt them and I'm lookong forward to those settings they have planned. You said something very interesting..

 

"To help everyone get through the rest of development"

 

I'm very aware that in order to develop the game they gotta break stuff and try things out or they may as well just go gold and release. They need to have the freedom to work on stuff so things will break.

 

Any and all complaints from me other than the console md5 issue which is history for me as I no longer play on console, are strictly feedback and discussion.

 

Thinking that the devs are plotting against us is ridiculous. I'm still enjoying the game and if something is "too bad" I just mod it but that is very rarely the case. (Stamina)

[Jackelmyer]

Someone has posted this since the beginning of horde nights. This can't be used to point at A17 specifically...

 

 

Bottom line is that the devs have announced plans to add in more options sooner than they originally planned in order to help everyone get through the rest of development.

 

There is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard, or that single ply tp your boss buys for the staff bathroom. Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17, will be able to lower that slider to the point that even the most basic shack with half damaged door will still take the zombies 3 weeks to break through.

 

So buck up. Everyone will get what they want sooner than we thought they would.

 

 

Hey Roland? I can't test it at the moment, but I was wondering. Death still lowers game stage right? I mean, I know it's like the absolute worse and basically final way to say "screw it all, I'm making this easier", but you can frankly swallow glass and wake up to things just a little sunnier right?

[Hek Harris]

Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17(...)

... and meanwhile, Roland is making great progress in Newspeak ... Doubleplusgood.

[DiesFourth]

Someone has posted this since the beginning of horde nights. This can't be used to point at A17 specifically...

 

 

Bottom line is that the devs have announced plans to add in more options sooner than they originally planned in order to help everyone get through the rest of development.

 

There is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard, or that single ply tp your boss buys for the staff bathroom. Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17, will be able to lower that slider to the point that even the most basic shack with half damaged door will still take the zombies 3 weeks to break through.

 

So buck up. Everyone will get what they want sooner than we thought they would.

 

At least you dont sound irratated AT ALL with thiscomment lol

[OnlyMeiya]

I disagree with you saying the game forces you into 1 style to play. The game is mostly build around blood moons which is when the game will try to kill you.

 

There are options to set the zombie speed to walk speed and difficulty settings to lower your gamestage progress. But complaining about exploits being fixed is absurd as far as i'm concerned.

 

I agree with this statement honestly, the problem is everyone is stuck trying to build like they used too, I have created several variations of bases and almost none of them rely on cheesing the zeds AI pathing.

 

From my experience

 

 

[quote=Hellsmoke= I'm not too upset about digging I just stopped building underground. For all those saying you can still build underground, sure you can. You will however have zombies digging down to you and that includes screamers which will show up regularly because people use these underground bases to craft and kill time at night.

 

1. Underground bases DO still work, however to deter zeds from digging down, you may want to build a strong surface "Floor" so to speak, so they don't see it as viable to dig through to get into your base; and leaving an opening that follows some clever trap designs or a sectional "Fall back" wall, works very well, the zed will path right in without going crazy on the terrain.

 

2. Tower bases work very well still, you will suffer damage to your foundation however, placing blade traps to encompass the foundation helps exceptionally well, as does putting your opening a little higher and framing up to get inside it so they don't B-line straight to the door. (Hint, also make murder holes as the foundation level)

 

3. Standard bases can still work if you place enough spikes and/or have enough basic dart traps, I actually have a video of this already posted.

 

Its all how you build really, as your builds fail you will learn to understand through trial and error eventually how the zed pathing works.

First

Attempt

In

Learning

 

I think what people liked most was the possibility to choose.

 

You still can, what they were getting at is there were exploits used to defeat the challenge of the game without ever really putting any effort into defeating it, while I agree with some I still disagree with others.

 

Don't expect to just pick up the game and be a master after a few days of playing it, this game will challenge you, you are only limited by your creativity, that does unfortunately, mean, Learn the game, and git gud. I have seen numerous players think they knew how to build only to see their designs were extremely inferior.

 

here is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard,

 

Doesn't this already exist in the form on Block durability option? I usually play on default or harder settings so correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

using one of the few designs that works currently isnt innovative or exciting.

 

I still build pretty much however I want to, I design bases with a premise of "hey this sounds fun, I'm do this." I work out all the kinks after I see what the hordes do, the Slow event hordes are pretty good at telling me where they want to go,

 

Just don't take away my ability to deal with the horde night on foot without my base involved, I am purposely putting myself at risk of dying easier because I enjoy kiting the horde and this helps sharpen my reflexes and aiming as a personal player.

 

Something about there being phases and there should be a phase where if you want to relax and sit a horde night out you should be able too and productively mine underground or something.

 

You still can do this if you build electrical traps and design them correctly.

[LoboFH]

Someone has posted this since the beginning of horde nights. This can't be used to point at A17 specifically...

 

 

Bottom line is that the devs have announced plans to add in more options sooner than they originally planned in order to help everyone get through the rest of development.

 

There is a plan to add a separate slider for zombie damage vs blocks so that everyone can choose to basically have their concrete be made of actual concrete, chilled butter, wet cardboard, or that single ply tp your boss buys for the staff bathroom. Those who are tired of the d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e̶...er...sorry....tedium and lazy dev shenanigans of raw A17, will be able to lower that slider to the point that even the most basic shack with half damaged door will still take the zombies 3 weeks to break through.

 

So buck up. Everyone will get what they want sooner than we thought they would.

 

When devs start to add sliders and "options" it means they are lost, or can't admit mistakes. Anyways I don't think it matters, block damage is just another factor in the equation, if these delta force zeds bash a single block and only use a minimal fraction of the traps, thanks to the new, improved, "revolutionary" A.I. they will shred though kryptonite anyways.

 

About the "difficulty and challenge" sarcasm my A16 bases were wonderful, had tons of work and I fought and repaired them with a knife in my teeths in BM horde. In A17 I am in the other side of ramps, it's braindead and a walk in the park, so if this the purpose of the devs, well, it's not working. Difficulty is fine, but if we lose freedom in a sandbox, you break immersion with changes that make not sense and render useless a bunch of options the game gets worse, that's a huge mistake, zeds are stupid in pop culture, they bash walls and groan, they can't analyze a battlefield to find the best way to a brain.

 

Underground bases ... I can't understand and I try, all the commitment to ruin them ... if someone doesn't want to fight hordes now will get a bicycle way before Day 7 and have a relaxed night trip all night long. Not that I care, I didn't hide in a hole but now I must mine with a shotgun in the toolbelt because those zeds with supernatural powers (/s) know where I am 20 meters into solid stone and often I must clean a ridiculous wanderer horde in a hole by dawn. It breaks immersion ... a little bit.

 

Guys, you have nerfed the freedom to build fancy bases in one game where this was the best part, by far, as combat and gunplay are (and always were) subpar. I don't really think you want this, it made the game unique and thrilling, just a friendly advice.