Late Game stage, POI's are getting to where they aren't worth looting anymore

[crazyduck]

This seems more like a negative opinion about TFP's abilities than a critique of anything I wrote. None of us knows what's coming. You don't seem to trust the development team. Why are you bothering then?

 

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Its not that i dont trust the Abilities of the Development Team, its more that i really have Problems to trust the Roadmap if something like that exist. Reason i talked about Skyrim is that it looks for me the Team redo the Game again and again cause they played other Games and liked this or that of the different Games they Play and not cause they had something liket hat in Mind before.

 

And yes that has also something to do with Gamestages, LAte Game Progression, POI , Loot and Loot Quality.

 

Currently in Vanilla its Easy mode the entire Game also on High Difficulty Setting cause only giving Zombies more HP does not make it more Difficult to survive.

We startet the Server in Difficulty Insane with Loot Chance of 70% and Respawn of Loot every 20 Days. And hej great People found Guns and more Guns and even more Guns and Ammo and more Ammo , Booster Books in masses same for Mods for Tools and Guns.

So the only real Limitation was Player Level and to raise that Level they did not have to go and Loot and search inside the POI thy could only stand in front of the POI shoot into it and lure the Zombies Out of the POI kil them level up get more Recipes and crafte more stuff they wantet. Others startet to mine a little bit to get flooded in Resources (only coal was not much found) sold stuff to trader to buy other stuff cause Trader sells you most of the Ingame Items.

 

so tell me where is it Survival if you can go to the local Wasteland Trader and buy the Stuff you want or get tons of loot in every POI? To be honest its a Apocalyptic World there should be no working Gun in every POI and no fresh Food or high quality Tools and Items. Survivors woudl have used it to survive or sold it to get something else. That game with the current Loot Table and the Current Whack a Zombie Playstyle does not feel like Surival Game for me if Resources, Tools, Weapons and Food is everywhere around me in insane high amounts.

 

ok sure i modded most of it already but my Opinion stay same and you ask why its botherin me? cause i Like the Idea and the Game it was before the Devs decided they must dumb down everything to make it easy enough that every keysmash kid can play it without thinking a second about survival.

[RavenGT]

Snipped for space.

 

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.

 

IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

[Ghostlight]

Some irony here...

 

I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

[JaxTeller718]

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.

 

IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

 

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.

 

It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

[PoppaTot]

Some irony here...

 

I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

 

This happened to me, was great to be able to just run in and shred anything that came at me. But then soon realized that there was no point to go in there in the first place lmao.

 

For example, I just spent night 133 blood moon using none of my bases. I used my motorcycle and trained the horde towards me, got off bike, killed 6-10 zombies, rinse/repeat. It was fun AF, however, those that say this Alpha is harder than A16.4 just haven't played far enough. It's easy to be OP in both of them tbh.

[RavenGT]

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.

 

It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

 

Nailed it! Couldn't agree more. I love most of the new systems and most of the mechanics, but the game is no closer to having an identity than it was before. More survival horror, less cheesy filler.

[Randomdude]

Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

 

Building IS 7DTD. The best building game in the market at the moment. Moments do pass though... and as a wise man once said: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes once in a lifetime...".

 

Cmon, tell me you're not singing it now...

[Jackelmyer]

As someone who prefers A17 over A16, I agree. I would like to see them add more desirable but non-essential items/recipes to the loot tables. For example item/vehicle/clothing skins, retractable stairs, reinforced garage doors, faster opening steel doors, unique deco items. There's a lot of scope there to add things that will keep the looting interesting.

 

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

 

I personally like these two solutions best.

 

Highest Tiers only lootable.

Non-Essentials only lootable. Though the non-essential list is going to be a hot debate. Highest tier tools and weapons, motorcycle parts, and jeep parts are all that really come to mind for me. Maybe mutated seeds too but I think that's a highest tier thing as well.

[Jackelmyer]

As someone who prefers A17 over A16, I agree. I would like to see them add more desirable but non-essential items/recipes to the loot tables. For example item/vehicle/clothing skins, retractable stairs, reinforced garage doors, faster opening steel doors, unique deco items. There's a lot of scope there to add things that will keep the looting interesting.

 

That's an idea. They could also limit crafting to tier 5 to make us loot for tier 6. Or have a tier 7 that can only be looted. Or have tiered mods. Something that brings the joy and need of looting back to the game.

 

Nailed it! Couldn't agree more. I love most of the new systems and most of the mechanics, but the game is no closer to having an identity than it was before. More survival horror, less cheesy filler.

 

More builder/Tower defense for me.

 

I really hope A18 becomes the bandit and end game boss release. That way people have a way to wrap up their game play and they have an end game point to dial overall progression against. Personally I think that'd be the best approach they could take that would all TFP to tighten up identity and what gameplay should start looking like. I'm glad A17, or to me it seems, was much more of a framework overhaul and adding content. Some content, I think, was partly pushed forward to really test the framework overhaul.

 

If we get an end game goal at some point in the near future (roughly over the next year), I think these end game conversations will have something far more tangible to pit the "why do things this way?" questions against.

[HungryZombie]

As always, be prepared for the endless hordes (see what I did there?) proclaiming this game is "tower defense!" and "needs to balance x with y". Unfortunately, it seems that the focus was never / will never be on a true survival game, but a quasi-tower defense game with random survival aspects thrown in. I'm not sure you can do both as good as each "side" would like so I'm unsure of the answer.

 

IMHO the best adaptation should be a survival-horror game with base-building. Except the building in 7DTD is light years ahead of the terrible mechanics seen in other games that attempt this using different game engines...

 

I agree. I've said this before myself but MadMole pretty much poo-pooed it lol. I'm in agreement it's a perception issue.

[RyanX]

This.

 

I play with my wife and we are roughly level 45-55. We went from looting and questing to WTF?! it seems instantly. The rads/ferals are too numerous and difficult to risk it anymore. Oh we could do it, but we would end up with less ammo than when we started. So quests are out, looting buildings is out..guess we just hunker in our base farming and shooting arrows. We haven't played since our last session a week ago, and are wondering if we will return. And I have about 1.5k hours into it.

[HungryZombie]

Its not that i dont trust the Abilities of the Development Team, its more that i really have Problems to trust the Roadmap if something like that exist. Reason i talked about Skyrim is that it looks for me the Team redo the Game again and again cause they played other Games and liked this or that of the different Games they Play and not cause they had something liket hat in Mind before.

 

And yes that has also something to do with Gamestages, LAte Game Progression, POI , Loot and Loot Quality.

 

Currently in Vanilla its Easy mode the entire Game also on High Difficulty Setting cause only giving Zombies more HP does not make it more Difficult to survive.

We startet the Server in Difficulty Insane with Loot Chance of 70% and Respawn of Loot every 20 Days. And hej great People found Guns and more Guns and even more Guns and Ammo and more Ammo , Booster Books in masses same for Mods for Tools and Guns.

So the only real Limitation was Player Level and to raise that Level they did not have to go and Loot and search inside the POI thy could only stand in front of the POI shoot into it and lure the Zombies Out of the POI kil them level up get more Recipes and crafte more stuff they wantet. Others startet to mine a little bit to get flooded in Resources (only coal was not much found) sold stuff to trader to buy other stuff cause Trader sells you most of the Ingame Items.

 

so tell me where is it Survival if you can go to the local Wasteland Trader and buy the Stuff you want or get tons of loot in every POI? To be honest its a Apocalyptic World there should be no working Gun in every POI and no fresh Food or high quality Tools and Items. Survivors woudl have used it to survive or sold it to get something else. That game with the current Loot Table and the Current Whack a Zombie Playstyle does not feel like Surival Game for me if Resources, Tools, Weapons and Food is everywhere around me in insane high amounts.

 

ok sure i modded most of it already but my Opinion stay same and you ask why its botherin me? cause i Like the Idea and the Game it was before the Devs decided they must dumb down everything to make it easy enough that every keysmash kid can play it without thinking a second about survival.

 

RavenGT's comment pretty much sums up anything I would have said in response.

 

Still you are entitled to your feelings on the matter and I can relate that it's tough when your used to something and it changes, let alone changes and is not yet finished. At least we know they know and are working on it and can hope for the best.

[pahbi]

At some point, once you have so much stuff you don't know what to do with it all, going into a POI isn't about getting more stuff, its just about seeing the POI and killing everything in it.

 

- P

[EzRemade]

Small survivor camps that offer quests with nice rewards seems much more appropriate for this type of setting. Everything about the traders from their placements in the world, to their noisy closing/opening announcements detracts from the feeling that you're trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.

 

Farming is a hard one to balance as well. As much as I like it, it really does trivialize all of the biological survival aspects. Mining is one thing because without materials to fashion bullets, you would never be able to fight or find food, but farming... Eh. I highly doubt farming would ever be removed though, probably would need a modded server for that one.

 

After getting to level 120, looking for beakers for 45hrs, I've started over an a public PvP server and am trying to survive as a wanderer. It's surprisingly a lot of fun to not be tied down, always looking for that next meal or a few extra rounds to stuff in your measly pockets. With the scattered workbenches and chemstations around, I technically could still progress my INT and craft things on the go. I may play like this more often, it's surprisingly refreshing.

[OnlyMeiya]

Small survivor camps that offer quests with nice rewards seems much more appropriate for this type of setting. Everything about the traders from their placements in the world, to their noisy closing/opening announcements detracts from the feeling that you're trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.

 

Farming is a hard one to balance as well. As much as I like it, it really does trivialize all of the biological survival aspects. Mining is one thing because without materials to fashion bullets, you would never be able to fight or find food, but farming... Eh. I highly doubt farming would ever be removed though, probably would need a modded server for that one.

 

After getting to level 120, looking for beakers for 45hrs, I've started over an a public PvP server and am trying to survive as a wanderer. It's surprisingly a lot of fun to not be tied down, always looking for that next meal or a few extra rounds to stuff in your measly pockets. With the scattered workbenches and chemstations around, I technically could still progress my INT and craft things on the go. I may play like this more often, it's surprisingly refreshing.

 

Nomad runs, they were a thing and still are. Glad to hear it.

[OnlyMeiya]

Some irony here...

 

I see people saying often that looting is not fun due to the POIs being so full of Ferals / Cops / both. I can sympathize with that. However the point in the game when POI looting DOES become extremely fun is when you have sufficient firepower to take on the Ferals/Cops and enjoy it - which is around the same time where you NO LONGER NEED TO LOOT POIs. Pffft.

 

Which would be fine if I didn't spend all my time training up my Lucky Looter skill to 5/5, whats the point then?

[giltirn]

And that brings us back to the original issue. The game has no identity. It's trying to be ALL the things and coming up mediocre at it, as opposed to previous Alphas where they focused on its strengths as Survival Horror with a n amazing building system.

 

It's trying to be Falllout and thats a losing play.

 

100% agree. Perhaps they backed themselves into a corner by selling the game as a "open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. It presents combat, crafting, looting, mining, exploration, and character growth" (Steam description). Wow, over-reach much? And then there are the enemies which are not really zombies anymore but a big random bag of apocalypse tropes including undead skeletal vultures, direwolves with glowing eyes and soon, Mad Max-style bandits. Rather than offering a streamlined vision of a game it tries to be a little of everything but does so only half-assed, while at the same time completely neglecting the aspect where it really shines: voxel base building.

 

I wish someone could just take A16 and smooth out the rough edges, remove the silly things, and then just optimize it so we can have more zombies. I'd be a happy punter.

[FileMachete]

Last POI I ran was the bear den thing, where there are 2 zombie bears in cages (that are open). My GS was ~92 or so.

Ran around banging on the outside walls to get em to come out n play.

Out the front they did come, think I got at least 4 cops & a few ferals.

Another couple cops inside & more ferals. No glowys though.

 

Point of this is that I just had day 28 BM, GS of 120 at start and only had -2- cops all night (no rads).

Somethings goofed.

[OnlyMeiya]

You mention you are 1-shotting enemies with a bow. Therefore you are playing on a easier difficulty than many players. Therefore you are probably not seeing the issue the OP mentions.

 

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Whaaaat? I am level 110 and have just finished my day 28 horde. What the hell are you (not) doing?

 

 

I can One shot enemies with a bow on standard difficulty, it just requires higher perception/boom headshot and some points into sneak.

[Cirion]

+1 on vanilla version of game

 

It's generally somewhat worth it for me still, but only because my game is heavily modded to deal with a lot of things I consider to be a headache in A17 and this is one of them.

 

AFAIK green zombies can not be one hit killed with stealth (on insane difficulty) except for some mods I added (increased perk levels so I can do more stealth damage) plus slightly more powerful ranged weapons in general. In vanilla you can't stealth kill green zombies, at least not on insane (which is my difficulty of choice).

[Venemox]

100% agree. Perhaps they backed themselves into a corner by selling the game as a "open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. It presents combat, crafting, looting, mining, exploration, and character growth" (Steam description). Wow, over-reach much? And then there are the enemies which are not really zombies anymore but a big random bag of apocalypse tropes including undead skeletal vultures, direwolves with glowing eyes and soon, Mad Max-style bandits. Rather than offering a streamlined vision of a game it tries to be a little of everything but does so only half-assed, while at the same time completely neglecting the aspect where it really shines: voxel base building.

 

I wish someone could just take A16 and smooth out the rough edges, remove the silly things, and then just optimize it so we can have more zombies. I'd be a happy punter.

 

Better to whole-ass one thing than half-ass two.

 

EDIT: Typographical corrections.

[Feycat]

We don't even loot random POIs anymore. We're only doing quests and looting buildings that way.

 

Frankly, once you're that high level, who cares about the loot? In A16 it was the same way, you got high enough level and you were getting nothing you need. At least taking a T5 quest to clear out the 6 floor apt building gives you something to do.

[OnlyMeiya]

We don't even loot random POIs anymore. We're only doing quests and looting buildings that way.

 

Frankly, once you're that high level, who cares about the loot? In A16 it was the same way, you got high enough level and you were getting nothing you need. At least taking a T5 quest to clear out the 6 floor apt building gives you something to do.

 

No looting in 16 was still very useful past late game stage for guns and gun parts, since you can craft them now, guns are no longer a valuable part of looting.

 

 

Military armor was also very still needed in 16 as well,but now you can craft that and steel armor as well.

 

Now the only thing worth going out for is looting for mod schematics and mods.

[Ranzera]

I can One shot enemies with a bow on standard difficulty, it just requires higher perception/boom headshot and some points into sneak.

 

Plus it's easy to get 3 bolts into any zed before you have to worry about actually fighting them. Shoot sleeper in head > they fall down > shoot them anywhere > they stand up > they pause a moment on their feet before charging you > third shot, hopefully a head shot.

 

They either die before they charge you or they are very weak by the time you pull out the sledge.

[Vomkat]

A17 totally destroyed any end game we once had.

 

Once you can craft tier 6 items, there is absolutely zero point in ever looting a POI again. There is nothing you need. NOTHING. Get your food from your farm, bullets from your mine and mods from the trader (quests mostly). No need to loot, no need to explore the map.

 

Pretty sad since this "end point" occurs around level 90 to 100 which is day 25 in my current playthrough. Day 25 and I never need to loot again, having looted the one small town I spawned beside, and that's it. Tragic.

 

Game is a shadow of what it used to be pre this garbage alpha.

 

And if you decrease loot spawn... then you will find the game more challenging and not be on the forums whining about it being too easy.