Do you guys like this new leveling system ?

[meganoth]

Time to say my piece too:

 

I like the new system.

 

For me it is more freedom. Less "wrenching cars because you need to level construction", more "wrenching cars when you want the parts". I do think there is still a lot of balancing necessary and there should be an alternative to crafting most stuff in the INT tree.

 

And I like the idea that you can't max all attributes (no surprise there, I even proposed it myself some time ago). Increasing costs for ability or perk levels could work too.

[Shin]

Not a fan, no.

 

Not even bothering reading 12 pages, But fully agree with above.

[Guppycur]

Well, MM came, he read, he responded, he decided not to budge or consider alternatives, he won't be back, so it's settled. Mod the stupidity out... that's the only recourse.

[Ghostlight]

I like the new system.

 

For me it is more freedom. Less "wrenching cars because you need to level construction", more "wrenching cars when you want the parts"

 

I don't think that is the issue tbh, it's more about: "Before you start wrenching cars, kill some more zombies because that way you will be even better at wrenching cars and thus get more car parts."

[PoppaTot]

Well, MM came, he read, he responded, he decided not to budge or consider alternatives, he won't be back, so it's settled. Mod the stupidity out... that's the only recourse.

 

Oddly enough, that did feel like closure lol.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Well, MM came, he read, he responded, he decided not to budge or consider alternatives, he won't be back, so it's settled. Mod the stupidity out... that's the only recourse.

 

Maybe, maybe not. He did say this in one of his posts:

 

Probably a limited economy of attribute points or make them cost more and more to reach 10. Then we could remove the level gates.

[Guppycur]

Shh, I'm trying to use reverse psychology, knowing Roland will read this... =)

[Aldranon]

If you think increasing run speed and zombies hit strength makes challenging game play you must also think hotdogs and chicken nuggets are fine dinning.

 

 

In this game, Chili Dogs are OP.

[Roland]

RIP Level Gates

 

I agree, the system did not reflect the freedom to create your favorite character class very well and I didn't like the lack of early game specialization. That said we've already changed it and are testing it for a release. Now to balance this attribute points scale in cost, something like 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,4,5,6. Don't quote me there, but you can max out one attribute roughly in your mid 30's but at the expense of having zero perks.

 

Here are is my portion of the release notes on it:

Changed: Attributes are no longer gated by your level. You can specialize very early game now but attributes cost more for the higher ranks. The goal is to allow players to specialize into classes early game, and be awesome at a few things and ok or poor at other things. Or you can be a jack of all trades, the choice is yours. With the costs of the higher attributes being steeper, players will probably want to specialize in one or two attributes and get the best perks in those attributes and late game there will be less god tier characters who have every perk unlocked. We are looking for feedback such as are there any exploits or severe imbalances with this new system.

[LuckyStar]

Shh, I'm trying to use reverse psychology, knowing Roland will read this... =)

 

 

 

RIP Level Gates

 

 

Heh....

 

[meganoth]

I don't think that is the issue tbh, it's more about: "Before you start wrenching cars, kill some more zombies because that way you will be even better at wrenching cars and thus get more car parts."

 

That is one of many issues YOU have. I will simply test if zombie XP in A17 is now comparable to other xp sources like .... wrenching cars. THEN I will speak up if it still doesn't fit.

[LuckyStar]

That is one of many issues YOU have. I will simply test if zombie XP in A17 is now comparable to other xp sources like .... wrenching cars. THEN I will speak up if it still doesn't fit.

 

 

Rawr!

[Guppycur]

Yay, now the game can be fun again (for the rest of you). =)

[LuckyStar]

Yay, now the game can be fun again (for the rest of you). =)

 

Not having fun Guppy?

[PoppaTot]

Not having fun Guppy?

 

I think he meant that he has been having fun because of his mods, and now we can as well lol.

[Guppycur]

I've had level gates off since about 3 days after a17e was dropped, in the exact method MM described. =) So we've been having fun since then.

 

In fact, I truly believe StompyNZ's original post about it made this happen...

 

/narcissisting for others since 1971

[Kosmic Kerman]

Not having fun Guppy?

 

He was already using a similar system on his servers.

[GrumpyGringo]

I like the current system, but I'm not against books that could maybe drop an extra point here or there, or maybe unlock something thats gated. Just make the book drops very rare. Or add libraries to the traders and make the good ones rare.

 

With some of the stuff that's gated, it feels very frustrating. Comparing to Skyrim, when you look at the perk tree, you see these high lvl gates that are something you are striving towards. Your excited about it. With the new 7d gates, I find myself swearing a lot. I expect steel to be a pretty high lvl gate, which is fine. Same with the motorcycle and 4x4. But the bicycle and forge feel pretty far away from a lvl 1 character.

 

I think this is all just balancing issues and is an easy fix.

 

I would put in a request for more endgame, high lvl gates. Although I have no idea what these would be? Maybe have the ability to use a radio to call an airdrop once a week? Or maybe make a radio a rare find that will summon an air drop. Maybe have a max gate "run like the wind," where you can run almost indefinitely without running out of stamina? Or "fist of the Gods," providing nearly unlimited power attacks? Maybe add a "Buddha" max gate where you can survive on very little food and water? And you definitely need, "I am the darkness," max gate where you are undetectable when crouched. Perk is broken once you are spotted.

[WolfyBlah]

RIP Level Gates

 

Except thats not RIP level gates. It even says as much in the post, not being able to max a attribute till level 30 is still a level gate.

 

This lowers the gates a lot (which is good, they should never have been so ridiculously high) but dosent solve the real problem and even reintroduces one of the things people apparently disliked about a16: having to hold onto points when leveling.

 

I will say this is a slight improvement vs the current implementation in a17 but its still pertty crappy.

 

Going to call it here and say you still need level 20 or so before you can make a forge/iron tools with these changes.

 

RIP level gates my ass.

[Guppycur]

No, I think he was saying the point cost to MAX an attribute would be about when you're in the 30's...

[WolfyBlah]

No, I think he was saying the point cost to MAX an attribute would be about when you're in the 30's...

 

And when XYZ crafting perk requires maxed INT? Level gate.

-

To expand on this: it takes 5 int before you can unlock the perk that lets you craft a forge? Thats around 10-12 levels just to get the attribute requirment, +1 for buying the actual perk..

Yeah still have to go grind XP at the start of the game to make a forge, nothing changed.

[PoppaTot]

one of the things people apparently disliked about a16: having to hold onto points when leveling.

 

Do people spend their points right when they get them? After unlocking key items (forge, workbench, ect.) I generally build up points without realizing it. In the later levels (50+) I've noticed that I've had like 10-15 points stack up with out realizing it. This post pertains to A17e's prior to this one. Only up to level 25 in this one.

[WolfyBlah]

Do people spend their points right when they get them? After unlocking key items (forge, workbench, ect.) I generally build up points without realizing it. In the later levels (50+) I've noticed that I've had like 10-15 points stack up with out realizing it. This post pertains to A17e's prior to this one. Only up to level 25 in this one.

 

Cant speak to this in A17 because i dropped it after 3 hours of gameplay, 2 more of testing and 2 more of fiddling with XML, in a16 it was *Required* to be able to buy the perks (took escalting costs like the propsed attribute locks, eg: last level of miner69 took 25? Skill points.)

 

Theres way more than just the attribute system thats driving me away from a17, the new POIs are pretty terrible too, a few large POIs with traps (ala skyscrappers) is fine, almost every house being a cheap trap or a chance to spawn an assload of feral or irradiated (read: bull♥♥♥♥ or bull♥♥♥♥) enemies is not.

[LuckyStar]

I've had level gates off since about 3 days after a17e was dropped, in the exact method MM described. =) So we've been having fun since then.

 

In fact, I truly believe StompyNZ's original post about it made this happen...

 

/narcissisting for others since 1971

 

You have a link to that post?

 

Now I'm curious.

[Purpendicular]

I like the new leveling system, for the most part. Even with the fixes, there is a major thing I don't like.

 

I don't like having to put points in INT to be able to unlock better gear, because, from a multiplayer perspective (and it seems this is how 7DTD is intended to be played), at least one player is severely gimping themselves combat-wise so that everyone can progress. This... kinda really really sucks.

 

From a single player perspective, it means that the already harder difficulty goes that much higher because you HAVE to be that player who puts points into int-based skills.

 

For this reason, I usually mod-in more skill points per level if I'm playing single player, usually 2 or 3.

 

How I would fix this: Make it so your combat trees and your crafting trees are separate, and you get skill points for each as you level. An alternative would be to give them both entirely different experience pools and crafting systems, so that shooting zombies doesn't make you a better crafter or vice-versa.

 

This would also have the benefit of allowing the player to choose what they unlock early and is not level gated. I'd make 3 different paths: Vehicles, Traps, and Structure. Players would have the option of having an early forge with the sacrifice of getting late vehicles, or an early minibike in exchange for getting your forge significantly later. Players could definitely overcome these limits with teamwork... and that's kind of the point of the game.