Do you guys like this new leveling system ?

[Davy Crockett]

I just feel like there are easy solutions to the stone axe power leveling.

Agreed. I'm not even in favor of having a crafting skill in the game; finding schematics unlocking some recipes with perks was fine. I just want to make the point that there's no dichotomy between spamcrafting and not having skills at all. A16 already had a hybrid system with skills yet no spamcrafting.

A few more ideas would be

- crafting exp gained depends on quality/quantity/rarity of ingredients or the base time it takes to craft the item

- scrapping tools that you loot raises crafting skill

- crafted items only give their full exp the first time or first few times you make them

- skill books that you can loot

- having a not-so-small chance to craft a higher quality item

- using a mining tool you crafted gives you crafting exp

 

Again, my only point is that it's not all black and white. There are many little nuances you could add to a system to balance it, you don't always need to scrap it completely.

[Corbit]

The real meat and potatoes in this last update is how they buffed slow metabolism and minor 69er. Those are perks to take now.

 

Its funny how MM talks about focusing on survival when they have skills like slow metabolism which make surviving insignificant. No doubt they will balance it by nerfing food and how easy it is to get.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Its funny how MM talks about focusing on survival when they have skills like slow metabolism which make surviving insignificant. No doubt they will balance it by nerfing food and how easy it is to get.

 

If you don’t like slow metabolism don’t take the perk. If you are just being passive aggressive, you are better off making the real criticism.

[Corbit]

If you don’t like slow metabolism don’t take the perk. If you are just being passive aggressive, you are better off making the real criticism.

 

It is a real criticism. The perk, and others like it, makes part of the game insignificant.

[Kalarro]

It is a real criticism. The perk, and others like it, makes part of the game insignificant.

 

Well, if getting perlks wouldnt make things easier, why would there even be perks?

 

Since I 1. dont have much trouble with food 2. like the need to still have to worry about it, I dont take the perk and can use it somewhere else.

[Corbit]

Well, if getting perlks wouldnt make things easier, why would there even be perks?

 

Since I 1. dont have much trouble with food 2. like the need to still have to worry about it, I dont take the perk and can use it somewhere else.

 

There is a difference between making the game a bit easier with each perk level and making part of the game insignificant.

 

I am the same as you, I don't have issues with food and so will never take that perk. The game has cooking which could easily be used to replace the perk while adding more depth to cooking.

[Ghostlight]

The problem with the INT tree is that everything that you can craft in the game is completely mapped out for you. This essentially makes every playthough the same.

 

I wish the devs would acknowledge this issue or at least tell us their feelings about it. Because right now from where I am sitting this is easily the biggest problem of all with A17. And the more you play A17 (especially the more you restart from day 1) the more this problem will start to eat away until you realize that the game has lost its replayability big time.

 

Prior to A17, I would have declared 7 Days my favorite video game of all time (I am 52 so I have played a lot of them, believe me). However if TFP stick to the mechanics of giving me every item in the game at exactly the same level every play-through - thus rendering looting pointless - I will be hard pushed to want to play further than a couple of full on play-throughs, I think. This breaks my heart.

 

The idea that choosing different perks for a different type of character can add replayability is an illusion. Firstly, I've played many playthroughs with groups and what I've noticed is that human nature dictates that people (generally) choose the same perks or very close to it on each playthrough.

 

This ties into what I was getting at when I called people who will enjoy A17 "casuals". You are of course free to place your early points anywhere you like, and the more casual player might see this as replayability ("this play-through I will be a Stealth assassin!"). However anyone who knows the game well knows tat all this does is make the early game even more tedious.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

A17 is the best version of the game yet, by far.

 

As a bonus, the amount of crying from cupcakes brings me extra joy.

 

You work for TFP, admit it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I couldn't mod my game enough in 16 (and same with friends on servers) to come close to a remote challenging survival difficulty. 17 has hit all the heads on each nail this time around.

 

Well this is bizarre since A17 becomes easier and less challenging than any alpha I have played before it, once you are past the first couple of weeks.

[Ghostlight]

It is a real criticism. The perk, and others like it, makes part of the game insignificant.

 

Food quickly becomes insignificant with or without this perk. I currently have 1500 meat in my storage box that I didn't even try to collect, it just happened. No need for it, and I have no points in Slow Metabolism either. Is this the time to mention that the game's best foods (like Meat Stew etc) are now pretty much useless? You will never let your max stamina fall low enough to make eating one worthwhile, so it is a total waste to ever make them. Again.....why is this good?

[HerrKingsley]

I couldn't mod my game enough in 16 (and same with friends on servers) to come close to a remote challenging survival difficulty.

 

In entityclasses.xml

Add this:

<entity_class name="zombieTemplateMale">

<property name="ApproachSpeed" value="2.2"/>

<property name="NightWanderSpeed" value="2.08"/>

<property name="NightApproachSpeed" value="3.1"/>

 

In items.xml

Add this:

<item id="71" name="handZombie">

<property name="DamageEntity" value="100" />

<property name="DamageBlock" value="500" />

 

In spawning.xml

Replace every biom with this::

<spawn maxcount="30" respawndelay="1"

 

 

You can thank me later!

[ktr]

There is a difference between making the game a bit easier with each perk level and making part of the game insignificant.

 

I am the same as you, I don't have issues with food and so will never take that perk. The game has cooking which could easily be used to replace the perk while adding more depth to cooking.

 

It probably could, for sure. With the perks split, it does allow for more player choice. People trait-ing high into INT can use master chef to manage their food needs, while those who would rather play more scavenger/nomad can take Slow Metabolism instead. I do think what food gives needs some more tweaking. Bacon and Eggs seems to be pretty OP for being a 1st level perk.

[Spider]

In entityclasses.xml

Add this:

<entity_class name="zombieTemplateMale">

<property name="ApproachSpeed" value="2.2"/>

<property name="NightWanderSpeed" value="2.08"/>

<property name="NightApproachSpeed" value="3.1"/>

 

In items.xml

Add this:

<item id="71" name="handZombie">

<property name="DamageEntity" value="100" />

<property name="DamageBlock" value="500" />

 

In spawning.xml

Replace every biom with this::

<spawn maxcount="30" respawndelay="1"

 

 

You can thank me later!

 

If you think increasing run speed and zombies hit strength makes challenging game play you must also think hotdogs and chicken nuggets are fine dinning.

[Kosmic Kerman]

It probably could, for sure. With the perks split, it does allow for more player choice. People trait-ing high into INT can use master chef to manage their food needs, while those who would rather play more scavenger/nomad can take Slow Metabolism instead. I do think what food gives needs some more tweaking. Bacon and Eggs seems to be pretty OP for being a 1st level perk.

 

Except for them being limited by how many eggs you can collect. If you are constantly checking birds nests you can eat bacon and eggs non-stop. The second you stop checking or stop exploring no more eggs and bacon.

[manni44]

If you think increasing run speed and zombies hit strength makes challenging game play you must also think hotdogs and chicken nuggets are fine dinning.

 

The problem i see here is all u can do atm do make it more a challenge is to up the speed strength or health of the zobies. Just because there is nothing in the game that would make the challenge any harder.

Pls tell me something here in game thats a challenge right now.

Or tell me what we could turn into a challenge to make it harder without making something just tedious

[PoppaTot]

Except for them being limited by how many eggs you can collect. If you are constantly checking birds nests you can eat bacon and eggs non-stop. The second you stop checking or stop exploring no more eggs and bacon.

 

I've noticed this as well. once I have around 750-1000 arrows in reserve or have transportation I tend not to search bird's nests anymore. But, by then I'm usually perked into metabolism. I like that TFP merged the food and water suppression into 1 perk, solely because I never once put a perk into water and always had put 3 into metabolism.

[ThaneNovum]

Thanks. If your not a min maxer type you will love the new system. We're balancing it and improving it.

 

I feel like this emphasizes my problems with the current build even though I don't hate it.

 

My personal play style is generally a lone survivor playing like a coward, I go out and explore when needed to restock and get new supples. Then when I'm stocked I fortify my home base defenses and do quality of life upgrades, expanding my farm designing the interior etc.

 

I admittedly min-max with the focus of making myself best able to survive

 

That being said, playing solo I absolutely have to have some levels of intellect in order to be able to convert my resources into useful tools and gear to survive. I have to have some combat skills for when I'm forced out into the world to restock and inevitably run into the undead. Since I'm building a base from the ground up I have to have modest gathering skills.

 

If you stopped here and compared my build to others they'd probably look way too similar to someone with a different play style. At lvl 50-60 where I think you mentioned in another post is where you generally stopped (and where I'm currently at in my game atm) I really just have a lot of bleh stat boosts that make me a much more competent physically fit human which is nice and you can definitely feel the improvement as you progress, but overall not that much changes. I'm a bit above avg with knives and rifles, my 2 weaps of choice, but because of the (agreeable) choice of not making zombies bullet sponges how good do I have to be with them in the first place?

 

When I first saw that knives could get a bleeding effect and later an AOE bleed I was super excited to unlock it, but as I got closer to being able to actually use it I saw that it was kind of moot at this point as my weapons and raw strength didn't leave much to be desired.

 

Sneak at first also looked amazing to me, as a coward avoiding unnecessary confrontation seemed like they'd make for a nice skill set. After thinking about it though, most buildings are relatively sealed, so you have to make noise to bust in and then once alerted the combat will probably wake everything else and there is no way to disengage to gain your sneak dmg bonus again without running a mile away so all those points are useless. It might be nice for clearing sleeper respawns after you've cleared a building but once again its too little too late when you have modded steel weapons reliability than a skills fringe use.

 

Passive health recovery also looked AMAZING at the outset, save health recovery and food items so I don't ocd waste resources to have full bars. Once again tho its lacking and by the time you start getting useful unique bonuses for specializing in it like the passive max hp recovery I had so many bandages available to me that it was worthless with my now much bigger hp bar and became more of a liability to rely on compared to making sure I properly healed.

 

A good chunk of this is primarily balance issues which understandably take time to level out. It still leaves a lot of problems to address. First off what are the 'fun' perks you can put points into that are less efficicient and won't min-max you? Parkour, Olympic Swimmer, Master Chef, Stealth? It's glaringly obvious there isn't much incentive or option but to min-max as you play.

 

The gameplay loop of explore, fight, gather, fortify, in itself is the biggest hook for most people which is fine it's why we play survival games in the first place, but if you want to give players choice in how they want to focus those efforts those choices need to feel meaningful and rewarding.

 

Feel free to disregard my skill change/addition suggestions here ~ https://puu.sh/ChxcO/ecbd273800.png ~ since its a bit off topic and way waaaay too long lol

 

 

Well.... that was more like my $9.95 instead of my 2 cents >..>... but to summarize, I still think the game is fun and will naturally get better with balance improvements but without skill choices being as impactful as they should it won't nearly live up to it's full potential.

[ktr]

Except for them being limited by how many eggs you can collect. If you are constantly checking birds nests you can eat bacon and eggs non-stop. The second you stop checking or stop exploring no more eggs and bacon.

 

True true, I hadn't really thought about it because I am a OCD looter/explorer. If there's a container, I open it. Even if I already have 1000 feathers.

[Kalarro]

True true, I hadn't really thought about it because I am a OCD looter/explorer. If there's a container, I open it. Even if I already have 1000 feathers.

 

Same

[Spider]

The problem i see here is all u can do atm do make it more a challenge is to up the speed strength or health of the zobies. Just because there is nothing in the game that would make the challenge any harder.

Pls tell me something here in game thats a challenge right now.

Or tell me what we could turn into a challenge to make it harder without making something just tedious

 

Well-

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?38584-True-Survival-JZMOD

or look in any of the other half dozen mods that add more challenging game play. The key to making it challenging is not changing one or 2 variables by a lot, its changing 100's by a little

[HerrKingsley]

If you think increasing run speed and zombies hit strength makes challenging game play you must also think hotdogs and chicken nuggets are fine dinning.

 

Actually there is a great sausage restaurant in my home town, you should try it. Very hipster very trendy!

 

Maybe the sarcasm was lost in the intereweb.

I mean of course you CAN mod A16 to be a nightmare where you probably wont survive to the first BM. Will it be fun probably not, challenging yes!

 

Edit: I only over did it because I was to lazy to make a new overhaul mod at the moment

[HerrKingsley]

Well-

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?38584-True-Survival-JZMOD

or look in any of the other half dozen mods that add more challenging game play. The key to making it challenging is not changing one or 2 variables by a lot, its changing 100's by a little

 

Correct! A16 WAS/is modable to be challenging!

Could Vanilla been more challenging? sure!

Could A17 be challenging with a patched a16's skillsystem, I belive so!

[Kattla]

Except for them being limited by how many eggs you can collect. If you are constantly checking birds nests you can eat bacon and eggs non-stop. The second you stop checking or stop exploring no more eggs and bacon.

 

Not really. The traders have finally decided to start selling decent food, so no need to learn master chef.

[Morloc]

"Do you guys like this new leveling system ?"

 

 

I'm good with the new system. I didn't mind the old system. I won't mind if they combine the systems, or come up with a reasonable alternative, or if they do not.

I'm not indifferent, I'm satisfied.

 

I ~do~ want a leveling/progression system of some kind though.

 

 

-Morloc

[HerrKingsley]

Not really. The traders have finally decided to start selling decent food, so no need to learn master chef.

 

I actually think this is good. Different paths to the same goal.

But balance is of course a must. Looks like the trader might need that now.

[art1336]

Someone made a poll about skill leveling, one of the moderators I believe, and last I checked the majority were not in support of the current leveling system.

Of course, I can't find the post anymore, so it might have been taken down or maybe I'm remembering it from a dream. I'm going with the former.

[HerrKingsley]

Someone made a poll about skill leveling, one of the moderators I believe, and last I checked the majority were not in support of the current leveling system.

Of course, I can't find the post anymore, so it might have been taken down or maybe I'm remembering it from a dream. I'm going with the former.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?97336-Perks-System-and-Level-Gates/&highlight=Poll&page=1