survivor727 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 When forge molds were first removed and replaced with needing to perpetually feed forges clay, I disliked it, but rolled with it. I get that the consumption of the clay is supposed to represent the molds. But molds dont get consumed when forging. I have to say, after putting in literal years of play since this change, and 1000s of hours, I still find this as silly as when it was first changed. It's not difficult, challenging, or engaging. It's simply busywork. To create forged things, the base material should be the only required sacrifice. There lies the challenge of making an iron pick axe... having to acquire the iron for it. Constantly feeding my forges clay has added nothing but a mindless busywork task for me. It's not enjoyable, fun, or challenging. And now in A17, to consolidate dirt and clay, the whole world surface is made of clay. Instead of the immersion-breaking that we live on a clay planet, I'd like to see it set it back to dirt as it should be, and scrap the endless clay-forge-feeding. This is just my feedback to the devs if they choose to listen. No players need reply to tell me I'm objectively wrong for having an opinion or gripe. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Actually, consumption of clay means adding other resources to raw iron so it actually comes out good. Plus, we can literally make bricks, bricks are made of clay(more or less). Also, I could change "clay" to iron, lead, brass, literally any material and that post would sound exactly the same. Its a game where you need to gather resources, if you don't like gathering resources, you're playing wrong game. Its refining them that should be easy and not complicated, as it is now compared to how it used to be with molds, planks, sticks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 And now in A17, to consolidate dirt and clay, the whole world surface is made of clay. Instead of the immersion-breaking that we live on a clay planet, I'd like to see it set it back to dirt as it should be, and scrap the endless clay-forge-feeding. . To be fair, you can find clay most anywhere in the ground, if there's a general rainfall in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 .. No players need reply to tell me I'm objectively wrong for having an opinion or gripe. Thanks. Yes but we might want to chime in on the subject. If you aren't looking for a discussion/debate.... why post it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahbi Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I don't mind gathering resources, but clay just doesn't make sense in the context its being used in. If you tell me, "You need clay to make the mold" and then you feed in a mold and some metal and out pops a anvil, that makes sense to me and I don't mind it. I also don't mind if I have to feed in clay to make bricks and such, again, makes sense. But when I see clay as a requirement with no context or explanation, it ends up not really making sense, and just feels like busy work. Either take away clay or bring back molds, or do something to explain why a anvil requires clay. (as an example) - P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSanity Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I don't mind gathering resources, but clay just doesn't make sense in the context its being used in. If you tell me, "You need clay to make the mold" and then you feed in a mold and some metal and out pops a anvil, that makes sense to me and I don't mind it. I also don't mind if I have to feed in clay to make bricks and such, again, makes sense. But when I see clay as a requirement with no context or explanation, it ends up not really making sense, and just feels like busy work. Either take away clay or bring back molds, or do something to explain why a anvil requires clay. (as an example) - P I don't really have too much of a problem with the system as it stands now because clay is everywhere and easily collected but I wouldn't have a problem if they brought back molds as it does make forging a little immersive in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krougal Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The molds were a 1 time thing yes, but you did need to swap them around and store them vs having to feed in clay all the time but seriously the clay requirements are not onerous, dig a few dirt blocks and you've got clay for hours. I think the molds were more of a pain in the ass than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitnoid Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Kind of like when they consolidated all meats. No more deer, pig, or rabbit meat. Its just meat. All resources that go into the forge should be combined into 'earth'. So, to make bricks, you need x amount of earth. To make bullets, you need y amounts of earth. Seems like it would be simpler to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I never played when there were molds, but I can imagine the headache if you have to keep making them, or even keep swapping them out. A better idea might be to make a mold that actually lasts... you put in a forge to unlock recipes and then you're done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwhit Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Yes but we might want to chime in on the subject. If you aren't looking for a discussion/debate.... why post it here? That not what he said though, he said don't just say he is wrong, cause he is not wrong nor right. You even quoted what he said then made it into a different meaning of the words I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahbi Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Sometimes there just really isn't a good solution for something. If you've been playing a long time and remember molds and such, then clay makes sense. What if a brand new person fires up the game and sees that they need clay to make an anvil? That person has no prior knowledge about molds, they don't have a clue what the clay is for. Its just some random thing they have to add to the forge that doesn't really make sense. Removing the molds step was basically a quality of life improvement that streamlined making things in the forge. From that perspective, its great. But to a new person who never had to make molds, it doesn't really make sense to require clay. - P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomkat Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Why complain about something you can easily change with the mod .xml files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydious Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Kind of like when they consolidated all meats. No more deer, pig, or rabbit meat. Its just meat. All resources that go into the forge should be combined into 'earth'. So, to make bricks, you need x amount of earth. To make bullets, you need y amounts of earth. Seems like it would be simpler to me... My issue with this kind of thing is that it turns out to be immersion breaking for me. While consolidating the meats back then was almost a QOL improvement, it also took away a bit of immersion. To me... if you simplify(dumb down) to many things in a game you just end up with a dumb game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 My issue with this kind of thing is that it turns out to be immersion breaking for me. While consolidating the meats back then was almost a QOL improvement, it also took away a bit of immersion. To me... if you simplify(dumb down) to many things in a game you just end up with a dumb game. Yeah, I wouldnt mind seeing different meats coming back. But no lol, so we farm "earth" and make bullets out of "earth"? No offense but no ty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 My issue with this kind of thing is that it turns out to be immersion breaking for me. While consolidating the meats back then was almost a QOL improvement, it also took away a bit of immersion. To me... if you simplify(dumb down) to many things in a game you just end up with a dumb game. Some stuff REALLY needs to be more streamlined to increase its usability. Do you remember refining wood logs into wood planks into sticks into spikes? Sure it was more "immersive", but was it any good for gameplay? Hardly. Same thing with other resources. If you have SO DAMN MANY resources in game, some will have to be streamlined to not drive you insane. Clutter isn't good for anything and liking older solution more doesn't mean it was any better. Yeah, I wouldnt mind seeing different meats coming back. But no lol, so we farm "earth" and make bullets out of "earth"? No offense but no ty. Go educate yourself on ore processing, strengthening iron, alloy making and smelting. You'll be surprised to find that quite a bit of "earth" is needed. You'd rather have additional 3 different resources to farm, or have them consolidated into one with broader use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydious Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Some stuff REALLY needs to be more streamlined to increase its usability. Do you remember refining wood logs into wood planks into sticks into spikes? Sure it was more "immersive", but was it any good for gameplay? Hardly. Same thing with other resources. If you have SO DAMN MANY resources in game, some will have to be streamlined to not drive you insane. Clutter isn't good for anything and liking older solution more doesn't mean it was any better. I agree sometimes it is a QOL issue but there is also a point where it gets to much. Hell lets just turn everything into "material"... Chop a tree get material, mine a rock get material, take a bucket to the river and get material. Sounds fun. And yes I remember all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Go educate yourself on ore processing, strengthening iron, alloy making and smelting. You'll be surprised to find that quite a bit of "earth" is needed. You'd rather have additional 3 different resources to farm, or have them consolidated into one with broader use? How about you educate yourself on what the post was about? If you want to turn 7 days into a scientific smithing process then, by all means, mod that in yourself. No, I don't think many people would enjoy "earth" as the only resource in the game. I'm rather educated in metallurgy and smithing, but I would uninstall this game so fast if that's what was required in it. And you should educate yourself on the topic of how smithing is done if you think you need a singular resource called "earth". So if I dig up some dirt in the ground that's enough to make forged steel/iron/brass bullet casings/lead tips/rebar? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitnoid Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I agree sometimes it is a QOL issue but there is also a point where it gets to much. Hell lets just turn everything into "material"... Chop a tree get material, mine a rock get material, take a bucket to the river and get material. Sounds fun. And yes I remember all of that. This was my real meaning behind having 'earth' represent all materials harvested from the environment. Once you start down that path, it boils down to one real resource needed for everything. Carbon would probably be the best representation. Personally, I liked the different meats. Makes no sense to kill a deer to make bacon & eggs. Clay is necessary in the process, if nothing more than to create a way to add time to the equation of creating crafted goods. Personally, I really liked the molds we had in the game. I had a mold for EVERYTHING, which could be swapped out in any forge I had. It wasn't a bad thing. Heck, not only did I have a mold for bullets but I had a mold for rare gun parts that I could craft. Especially if I couldn't find that particular part. I really think the reason they did away with molds was to appease the console users that were soon to appear on scene. They were taken out just before the console port became a realization. So, to sum up, once you take one thing out, you might as well start taking other things out if your sole intent is to streamline things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadpickle Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Clay can be rapidly gathered with a shovel so I don't see the problem. Spend one day gathering clay and it will last almost forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivor727 Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 Why complain about something you can easily change with the mod .xml files? I'm quite tired of this parroted response. A) I didnt buy a game so I could finish making it enjoyable, I bought a game so it would be fun, fair, and balanced out of the box. I don't want to spend time learning to mod a game. I paid for it just to play it and enjoy. B) We run vanilla dedicated servers, and again modding cannot be part of the equation if we want to remain on the standard servers tab, which is our desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 This is a no-change compared to A16. Clay was trivial to find and abundant in A16 and the same holds true for A17. You still have to do it and it's a little more realistic than in many games where you make "iron tools" or iron ingots from... raw iron. Is it a simplification to RL iron smithing / casting? Absolutely - but this is not a blacksmithing simulation. I don't see any need to remove clay. Used in a forge there is a use for all that previously useless "dirt". =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pregnable Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 This is a no-change compared to A16. Clay was trivial to find and abundant in A16 and the same holds true for A17. You still have to do it and it's a little more realistic than in many games where you make "iron tools" or iron ingots from... raw iron. Is it a simplification to RL iron smithing / casting? Absolutely - but this is not a blacksmithing simulation. I don't see any need to remove clay. Used in a forge there is a use for all that previously useless "dirt". =) I don't know, the clay seems a little pointless. Extra steps in forging can just be assumed. Just seems like it is there for slightly more realism that I doubt anyone notices or cares about, but that takes up space in the game that could be used for something else. Just a thought, but I guess I don't really care. heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlicksGirl Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 To be fair, you can find clay most anywhere in the ground, if there's a general rainfall in the area. yeah, you can see real life youtube videos of extracting clay for the dirt in your backyard. please dont give TFP any more busy work ideas though. Next we will see using the chem station and water to extract clay from soil... do you want more busy work? no? - - - Updated - - - I'm quite tired of this parroted response. A) I didnt buy a game so I could finish making it enjoyable, I bought a game so it would be fun, fair, and balanced out of the box. I don't want to spend time learning to mod a game. I paid for it just to play it and enjoy. B) We run vanilla dedicated servers, and again modding cannot be part of the equation if we want to remain on the standard servers tab, which is our desire. the standard server tab is overrated... and modding a server doesnt always mean your players will have to mod their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomkat Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I would like to see them make the game more intellectually challenging, rather than dumbing it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I don't know, the clay seems a little pointless. Extra steps in forging can just be assumed. Just seems like it is there for slightly more realism that I doubt anyone notices or cares about, but that takes up space in the game that could be used for something else. Just a thought, but I guess I don't really care. heh. It is not just used for the forge but also to craft terrain blocks for landscaping and cobblestone for early fortifications. It was already merged from 2 rather situational materials into one far more useful material. Stop trying to dumb down the game. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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