Alpha 17, Not That Great

[Poojam]

Here’s the thing. If they do fall soon and fail to rebound then TFP absolutely will look at that and hold meetings to discuss what they need to do to change that. But if they don’t fall and in fact continue to rise I doubt that those who are hoping that the majority hates the change will accept that result. They’ll explain it away and say that it doesn’t reflect general acceptance and satisfaction with the changes.

 

I know this because it has already happened. When the recent reviews were mixed those who were angry pointed to that as proof of a major problem and even predicted the end of the company and death of the game. Now that the reviews are all positive the same people say that Steam reviews don’t mean anything.

 

So far the number has been increasing. It was 17k on day 1 and it reached 20k by day 2. On day 3 it was 23k. The next couple of weeks will be telling to see if people are sticking with it to test. Yes, I realize that not all who are playing are satisfied but are trying to give it a fair and full chance. But even the critics of the last couple of days have told us of servers emptying and only one out of several friends still playing so with so many allegedly rage quitting and moving on and only a very few soldiering on despite their distaste for the new features, it should be tough for the numbers to increase unless a significant portion of the players are actually enjoying themselves.

 

I think TFP need to analyze the data a bit more than steam stats for in-game players. Knowing which version, whether it's modded, and whether it's solo/multiplayer would be much more valuable. Do they analyze these things?

[Poojam]

I think TFP need to analyze the data a bit more than steam stats for in-game players. Knowing which version, whether it's modded, and whether it's solo/multiplayer would be much more valuable. Do they analyze these things?

 

edit - It also doesn't hurt the server population that the game is on sale for $9. A ton of new positive reviews should be taken with a grain of salt if they actually have sold a lot of copies recently. Fresh downloads are likely playing A16.4.

[Roland]

edit - It also doesn't hurt the server population that the game is on sale for $9. A ton of new positive reviews should be taken with a grain of salt if they actually have sold a lot of copies recently. Fresh downloads are likely playing A16.4.

 

Yes, that might be true. It didn’t seem to make a difference during the humble bundle sale or the Halloween sale but maybe everyone who would give positive reviews were waiting for the Thanksgiving sale. Maybe the streamer event made the difference.

 

Rick talks about stats that he has access to that goes beyond the basic steam stats that we all can see. I’m not privy to his sourcesyy

[leaderdog]

Poojam makes a very good point. Alpha 16 was by far the easiest of the alphas (since 12 when I started playing) and lots complained about it.

 

So if people's introduction to 7 days to die is alpha 16 and then in a few weeks/month alpha 17 goes live, you may have a flood of people quitting the game or a new flood of post about why alpha 17 changed so much and is less fun. If the pimps don't "fix" a lot of the boredom that was introduced to in 17 (pointing out all the unhappy threads).

 

and yeah, "fun" is subjective. But I think the majority of people are not liking the restrictive/reptetive game play now.

[Ghostlight]

How about some real statistics.

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/graphs/

They work much better than made up ones.

 

The reception A17 is getting is negative. Not only are most threads negative, but most of the replies to them are "I agree". I can tell. It's bad.

[Guppycur]

The reception A17 is getting is negative. Not only are most threads negative, but most of the replies to them are "I agree". I can tell. It's bad.

 

And maybe the ones who like it are too busy playing?

 

...time will tell, but it's too soon to call it a dud.

[Zourin]

And maybe the ones who like it are too busy playing?

 

...time will tell, but it's too soon to call it a dud.

 

A17 isn't abortion level, but it has a small number of very painful points in the new mechanisms that need to be fixed. That's the point of the experimental phase.. which is kinda funny considering this is still an alpha-state game.

 

"normal" gamers don't show up to the forums when something is bad. Not for very long at least. They show up, vent, then either refund the game or uninstall it as a bad experience. Bad impressions are a lot easier to remember than good ones. Sure, some players are experience, or simply straight-up better at the gameplay that the new version, but if the new mechanisms are bucking players too hard, it needs tuning. Electric bulls aren't meant to snap spines; if yours does, you'll probably lose money on the deal.

 

OFC, TFP doesn't have to care unless there's a refund involved, so all power to them, but if old guard from pre-A9 is here with pitchforks, there's something that needs tweaking despite TFP's well remarked 'resistance' to such insinuated imperfections. New alpha? Take a drink every time Roland makes a kindly worded 'git gud'.

[meganoth]

OFC, TFP doesn't have to care unless there's a refund involved, so all power to them, but if old guard from pre-A9 is here with pitchforks, there's something that needs tweaking despite TFP's well remarked 'resistance' to such insinuated imperfections.

 

Guppycur is old-guard, right? He is longer on this forum than Poojam and he seems pleased with A17. I'm an original kickstarter backer (but waited till A15 to play it) and I generally like A17. So, what about that then?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I imagine this post will get attacked by the hoard of FunPimp superfans, eager to destroy any signs of dissidents, but, hopefully someone agrees.

 

So, if I like A17, do you count my vote or disregard me as a superfan?

[meganoth]

I will say, though, that the biggest problem with the new levelgating of the forge is that you're basically forced to spend your first 20 points (20 levels) in the intelligence thing to get the forge, else you won't progress to even basic material crafting ever.

 

I like the new perks, but I'll admit that's pretty bad design for that particular case. What's the point of having 100s of beautiful skills and abilities if you're forced to use your points on one thing to progress?

 

You could get that impression, but at least in my 2 co-op games now with 3 others we had one or two working forges at traders or POI's near our base at day 5, and had iron tools bought from traders or looted.

 

In our current game we have even found multiple working chem stations, in a close radius around our base, DAY 5!!!!

 

The perk is a stopgap or fill-in measure in the early game, for comfort or if RNG really messes you

[R0bb0b]

Disagree heavily on 5 and 6.

 

Seriously, I don't want to sound aggressive, but you guys are either exaggerating or just don't have much experience with the game. Dogs have never been "OP". In fact, if anything, they were way more of a challenge back in previous alphas. Now, even after TFP have fixed their erratic behaviour, have added give up timers and have reduced their speed, you guys still think they're "OP". I don't understand, to be honest, what the big deal is with dogs.

 

Now, zombies are the main challenge of the game. It makes sense for them to be dangerous and cause bleeding and infection. I don't see how that's tedious. It makes sense. Even so, if you don't want to deal with infection/bleeding, just avoid combat. It's fairly simple, and the better option if you're not strong enough to deal with zombies, or just don't want to deal with them at all.

 

The problem is that A17 forces combat for experience. 7DTD has always in the past been about diverse play styles, which is why experience generation was balanced in A16. Now combat is really the only way to advance at this point. I don't understand why TFP would choose to isolate other players who prefer building, farming or crafting instead.

[Peanut]

I read each item listed by the original poster of this thread and I agree with every point he makes.

 

The things I hate the most are:

- encumbrance

- no zombie loot

 

This game seems to get worse with every patch and I've been playing since alpha 5. The most fun I've had in this games was alpha 5 through 7. It has gone downhill since then. It's sad really.

 

TFP should ask and listen to what players want rather than coming up with random game design choices that no one ask for or want.

[Roland]

The problem is that A17 forces combat for experience. 7DTD has always in the past been about diverse play styles, which is why experience generation was balanced in A16. Now combat is really the only way to advance at this point. I don't understand why TFP would choose to isolate other players who prefer building, farming or crafting instead.

 

I agree that zombie killing nets the most experience the fastest but there is still xp generation happening by almost everything you do— even crafting xp is back again after being gone for a year and a half of A16.

 

The evidence is in the lower right corner of your screen.

 

I’m sure there will be some balancing of xp amounts coming in the future but what it really comes down to is whether someone is focused on just playing the game and progressing as it happens or whether someone is focused on progressing as quickly as possible because they don’t believe the game really being fun until a specific level in progression is reached. The good news is that the xp gains for each activity should be moddable if the devs don’t end up balancing it to your own preferred spectrum.

 

I’d be happy to play the game with less xp earned from zombies and more from other activities to even things up a bit.

[streaml1ne]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.

 

Honestly, Alpha 17, not that great.

 

I think the big thing is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

 

7DTD seems to have an issue finding itself, every alpha changes the mechanics of the game severely. Alpha 16 I feel had its ups and downs but it did hit a few nails on the head.

 

1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good. In Alpha 16 you found parts for guns of varying quality, you had to work your way up and it felt pretty satisfying working on your guns and increasing the quality from crap to death machines. It gave a sense of real progression, the same with tools and armor. Alpha 17 abandons this for a lazy and stupidly simple "select your level" system. A system which offers no real satisfaction as not only can you craft guns (which removes a huge part of looting) but it's simply too easy to get a gun. On my game I spawned in near a Shotgun Messiah, by the end of day one I had 4 AK-47s, 3 SMGs, 5 Compound Bows, 5 Pistols and 3 Shotguns, along with all the ammo in the world (which vanished because of a bug). This completely destroyed any sense of progression as I was by day 1 a walking armory. Sure, finding just parts isn't that realistic, but it was fun from a game-play point of view and this is a game where zombies and beat through reinforced steel.

 

I'm not a fan of this either. I liked the gun crafting as it was in 16.

 

 

2. The encumbrance is a huge pile of Screamer poop. There is a difference between hard and tedious. This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks. I will be modding it out asap.

 

This wouldn't be so bad to me if the inventory prioritized putting things in unencumbered spaces first. First day I had 5 or 6 open slots in my toolbar that stayed empty because the game kept putting things in the encumbered slots.

 

3. The perk system works in some areas but not all. You are no longer rewarded for using certain weapons which eliminates some of the RPG elements in this game. Not only that but the whole system is pretty crazy. You need to be level 20 to unlock a forge and use iron gear, thus being forced to use stone tool until then. Once again, this adds nothing to the game apart from another level of tediousness. This system is simply a grindfest, it's not fun or rewarding.

 

I think the forge at level 20 is bad, and the UI needs some work. I don't like that crafting recipes in general are locked behind perks. I'd rather it be the books/magazines like in 16. If they wanted to take away more recipes by default they should have gone that route and added more books to find. Magazines could stay as temporary buffs after you read them for the recipes the first time. It gave you reason to explore for more than just general loot and it makes no sense the perk way. You don't suddenly just know how to do something one day, you have to learn it through some means.

 

I've had limited play time so far since doors and secure crates are broken. I tried taking over an oil refinery POI and it was easy enough. Managed to find a level 2 shotgun day one, which definitely seems wrong. Overall I'd like the new features of 17, like the jeep, bikes, gyro, gun mods and the new POI's, but with the crafting/gun crafting and the skill/recipe system from 16 with the new perks applying to things like character attribute progression/damage output/etc..

[Roland]

New alpha? Take a drink every time Roland makes a kindly worded 'git gud'.

 

lol...please don’t drive shortly after reading my posts.

 

While it may be taken as “git gud”, it isn’t meant as such. Every new alpha requires some adaptation and that goes especially for those who are already gud.

 

My main concern is that people who have their pitchforks in hand realize that experimental is AT LEAST 3 weeks long and TFP isn’t going to make major revisions based on first impressions after 3 days when they can look at feedback given after weeks of playing.

 

Take zombie loot. I hated the idea when it was pitched. I disliked it at first while playing but then after a week I got used to no loot (loot drops were completely broken) and I actually grew to like it much better comparing the two after having tried it. Now I realize some wil never like it but my point is that my first impressions were not my long term impressions.

 

So thanks to all who are continuing to test without immediately modding stuff out or reverting to A16 despite your distaste. TFP will continue to want your positive and negative feedback.

[Linkhead2]

First, i do like your post, because you show your concerns and explain your point of view. However,

I do like most of the changes brought by Alpha 17, they might need some balancing, but it has been out just for 5 days, and it's an Alpha, Experimental and Unstable.

 

 

 

What I don't understand is, how do you assume that a large part of the fanbase dislikes the changes.

 

when people complain about it? I mean TFP took a huge hit when madmole uploaded that video showing how much had changed, 200k viewers left and declared the game dead.

[Wut]

I agree with most everything in original post; encumbrance is dumb, zombie spawns are ridiculous, and needing level 20 to make a forge is beyond stupid. Being able to carry stuff or make a forge shouldn't be gated behind grinding zombies for xp. Just let people play the game and IF they choose to grind levels then they can earn nice passive perks like the health regen and faster reloads.

 

Something needs to be done with the current state of walking into an empty building and all of a sudden 5-10+ zombies spawn inside EVERY SINGLE BUILDING.

[Poojam]

The reception A17 is getting is negative. Not only are most threads negative, but most of the replies to them are "I agree". I can tell. It's bad.

 

As it turns out there are a lot of forum posters that like the spirit of a sandbox game. If I was a purist I would say that the perk trees, attributes, level gates should be deleted entirely.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The problem is that A17 forces combat for experience. 7DTD has always in the past been about diverse play styles, which is why experience generation was balanced in A16. Now combat is really the only way to advance at this point. I don't understand why TFP would choose to isolate other players who prefer building, farming or crafting instead.

 

Combat is also the most poorly implemented action in this game. 7DTD has never been a good shooter. I thought we all embraced that?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I read each item listed by the original poster of this thread and I agree with every point he makes.

 

The things I hate the most are:

- encumbrance

- no zombie loot

 

This game seems to get worse with every patch and I've been playing since alpha 5. The most fun I've had in this games was alpha 5 through 7. It has gone downhill since then. It's sad really.

 

TFP should ask and listen to what players want rather than coming up with random game design choices that no one ask for or want.

 

Madmole wants it like this. No one else really matters.

[Bubbahotetp]

As it turns out there are a lot of forum posters that like the spirit of a sandbox game. If I was a purist I would say that the perk trees, attributes, level gates should be deleted entirely.

 

 

+1. Definitively better than having them there. The resource driven progression that we've seen in some little parts of a16 is actually very good, it forces you out into the world to find what you need. It would be no problem to expand on that and make some things difficult to initially produce as it could require multiple production steps. Pretty sure that's where I'll be going if I feel like modding again..

[Canaaar]

the grind for the forge i so bad. Would love to see gun parts back and fertilizer. Less perk stuff more finding. Its crazy we can craft anyting from complete guns to military gear on a stupid workbench. You are taking a very strange direction with the game. Allso you added some new thing to eat that requiers 10rotten flesh. But you removed the rotten flesh that we get from zombies. Also i have to hit the rocks 3 times with max lvl tool and stats. That is not done.very tedeous. Also would like to see we can create tiers ans sizes of backpacks. No perk ♥♥♥♥

[Ares GodOWar]

Everyone that thinks it is to hard could just play on easy mode with no Zs , I mean it's a zombie survival game let me see some of you that think it is hard go out and live off the land with Zs after you 24/7 , I bet most of you can't even boil water let alone make stone axes and wood bows lol..

 

I hope TFP keep making the game they want to make not cater to the people that want a easy game , This isn't minecraft.

 

One thing I wish they would change is respawning loot , I mean like WTF did someone go restock the loot in 30 days magicly ?

[SnowDog1942]

One thing I wish they would change is respawning loot , I mean like WTF did someone go restock the loot in 30 days magicly ?

 

I believe you can turn loot respawn off in the options.

[Ares GodOWar]

I believe you can turn loot respawn off in the options.

 

I know you can I just wish they would make it so there is no loot respawn at all in the core game.

[Fair Player [PL]]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.

 

Honestly, Alpha 17, not that great.

 

I think the big thing is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

 

7DTD seems to have an issue finding itself, every alpha changes the mechanics of the game severely. Alpha 16 I feel had its ups and downs but it did hit a few nails on the head.

 

1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good. In Alpha 16 you found parts for guns of varying quality, you had to work your way up and it felt pretty satisfying working on your guns and increasing the quality from crap to death machines. It gave a sense of real progression, the same with tools and armor. Alpha 17 abandons this for a lazy and stupidly simple "select your level" system. A system which offers no real satisfaction as not only can you craft guns (which removes a huge part of looting) but it's simply too easy to get a gun. On my game I spawned in near a Shotgun Messiah, by the end of day one I had 4 AK-47s, 3 SMGs, 5 Compound Bows, 5 Pistols and 3 Shotguns, along with all the ammo in the world (which vanished because of a bug). This completely destroyed any sense of progression as I was by day 1 a walking armory. Sure, finding just parts isn't that realistic, but it was fun from a game-play point of view and this is a game where zombies and beat through reinforced steel.

 

2. The encumbrance is a huge pile of Screamer poop. There is a difference between hard and tedious. This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks. I will be modding it out asap.

 

3. The perk system works in some areas but not all. You are no longer rewarded for using certain weapons which eliminates some of the RPG elements in this game. Not only that but the whole system is pretty crazy. You need to be level 20 to unlock a forge and use iron gear, thus being forced to use stone tool until then. Once again, this adds nothing to the game apart from another level of tediousness. This system is simply a grindfest, it's not fun or rewarding.

 

4. The zombie spawning is completely out of control. Multiple times I have seen zombies spawn in and have had to clear buildings multiple times as they spawn in constantly, they also spawn around you constantly and due to the new "homing" system they have, they will always be after you. You cannot hear them as they are ninjas apparently, this means that zombies are just something to be avoided or grinded. Not something you must kill to feel safe or even a source of resources.

 

5. Zombie vultures and dogs are OP, please listen to what people are saying TFPs.

 

6. Every attack by zombies and others results in bleeding or infection, once again this is pretty OP and tedious.

 

7. Last week I ate a bad fishcake, was sick but I did feel better after a day or so. What didn't happen was that I pooped blood, got hungry and thirsty and almost died. Characters in this game seem to have no immune system to speak of, no wonder everyone became zombies.

 

8. Zombie loot, please bring it back.

 

My final point is not so much about the game but the attitude of TheFunPimps staff at any criticism towards Alpha 17. This is an open Alpha, I assume the developers would want to make a game that pleases most fans. However, many seem to be plugging their fingers in their ears and ignoring the cries of many fans, people that paid for this game. Yes, you cannot please everyone but when most of you fanbase is saying "this is not so good" and you dismiss it, it's a good way to loose fans. Time and time again I have seen TheFunPimps staff dismiss, mock or ignore legitimate concerns and criticism on this site. Telling people that "you will get used/over it" as opposed to actually talking with them which I assume is the point of this site (among fan to fan interactions). When a large part of the fanbase expresses concerns or a dislike about an addition then many staff members just shrug their shoulders and say "well I like it" which raises the question, who is this game being made for?

 

Alpha 17 isn't all terrible, but instead of constantly replacing systems with dumbed down systems, why not enhance and work on the systems already in place? Reviews on Steam are already bombing due to peoples negative views of TFPs, dismissing peoples concerns will not help that.

 

I imagine this post will get attacked by the hoard of FunPimp superfans, eager to destroy any signs of dissidents, but, hopefully someone agrees.

 

The game isn't really more difficult, just more tedious and boring.

 

I brought 5 my friends to this game, we had fun and nice time in A12-16. Now it is not the game what we paid for. We agree with Moldy Bread expecialy in point 1. Nice said my bro...nice said...

We suffer the most due to ♥♥♥♥ocopter what destroys almost every aspect of building high thick walls of PVP base or towers (there is no problem to get in to the base now), we miss forold good skill tree, exploration, recipes to decor (redwood, wood planks, carpets, wood panelling, cupboards and many more.) something what helo to cover/hide the hard metal/concrete walls.

 

For us A17 is the back step. Cya in next alphas

[xXBadDreamXx]

doggos are extremelyyyy dumbed down now and arent nearly as hard to deal with. they are fast but theyre easier to kill so i kinda feel like this was addressed and i give credit where credit is due...ty pimps....dogs drove me nuts in the past but now its just a pucker moment unless yur a silly noob frolicking through the snowberries looking at butterflies you should be able to deal with a few. vultures however are wayyy overdone and annoying and stupid and occur in every biome and you just get sick of seeing them...we get it you think youre geniuses for including zombie vultures and want to show them off....

 

the bleeds are stupid. every single house im eating at least 4 bandages even with high quality armor and plating. really? apparently zombie hands are armor piercing machetes

 

encumberance im so so about....i dont find it completely horrible...just ignore it and get a bicycle

 

the sickness and food poisoning system i completely ignore and makes no sense and am hoping it gets a huge rework because obviously the pimps were high when they approved wat we have now. no other explanation for it. try to keep it to 3 joints a day guys...seriously

 

i can see the silver lining in the perk system .needs more work and perks mixed up a bit and improved.

 

one suggestion i have is can woodcutting be grouped with living off the land please? instead of miner 69er for woodcutting i believe you should get a 10% speed and resources bonus per living off the land level? good idea bad idea?

 

also the gyrocopter kinda bites. maybe swap the 4x4 and gyro places? also the gyro needs a much smaller inventory cause its kinda dumb that its so big

[Ghostlight]

How about some real statistics.

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/graphs/

They work much better than made up ones.

 

I am playing A17 constantly yet I more or less dislike all the changes made in A17 (outside of vehicles, AI, graphics and POIs). Citing a site that shows me people are actually playing the game means nothing. Playing A17 doesn't mean you like the changes it brought. Many people also posted they are reverting to A16 as well. In fact many people cited that the debacle of A17 made A16 feel like a whiole new and enjoyable experience and they went back for that breath of fresh air. So yeah I prefer my stats: the vast majority of posts cite the perks as a negative change for the game. You can tell.