Anybody run out of brass?

[ElCabong]

I do not have a problem finding all that I need. There's plenty of brass you can loot and when you put a few points into bad mechanic, cars are worth their weight in brass radiators.

 

I'll run out of it in the town I'm in and move on to another town, generally moving my base in the process.

 

Eventually though, I'll run out of towns. I've never had this happen because the map is big in random gen, and long before I can possibly run out of brass, I'll try out a new character build with a new game.

 

I do wonder about Navasegene. (pardon my spelling, I didn't spell it right)

 

Perhaps when the game goes live, if that ever happens, and you don't want to start all over again and want to keep what you've built.

[Vedui]

While it would be nice to have it more renewable, in A16 I used a lot more shotguns (and shotgun turrets) than just normal ammo, or sniper rifle with a melee weapon, and the brass found was always sufficient.

 

In A17 I do see that being an issue unless the resource is more readily available, with all those cool weapons, weapon mods, I'll definitely be using guns a lot more than I am in A16.

[warmer]

I have honestly shot less rounds than I have fingers and toes, and I have 300 hours in SP. Guns just attract more zombies. Bows and headshots are where it's at for me.

[pahbi]

Brass is just a pain to gather. I use the shotgun.

 

Unless we get the ability to mine zinc and copper to make brass, or allow an alternative material to make shells from, steel for example, brass based bullets will always have a certain amount of rarity to them.

 

- P

[Katitof]

While it would be nice to have it more renewable, in A16 I used a lot more shotguns (and shotgun turrets) than just normal ammo, or sniper rifle with a melee weapon, and the brass found was always sufficient.

 

In A17 I do see that being an issue unless the resource is more readily available, with all those cool weapons, weapon mods, I'll definitely be using guns a lot more than I am in A16.

That's the problem.

 

We are not allowed to use rifles or pistols, because we can't afford brass for bullets, that is why we all use shotguns regular shells, because slugs also require brass, which isn't renewable despite the fact it should be.

 

I'd even take another step to make casings re-usable, just to be able to use a damn pistol or rifle reliably instead of shotgun.

[ElCabong]

I get all the brass I need by breaking down cars and scrapping the radiators. By about level 15 rarely use a bow. Just put two points into bad mechanic and use a wrench.

 

But like I said it's a limited resource. I doubt if I'll ever run out since I play single-player

[Kattla]

I have honestly shot less rounds than I have fingers and toes, and I have 300 hours in SP. Guns just attract more zombies. Bows and headshots are where it's at for me.

 

After sorta mastering melee combat, back in A14 or A15, i came to the conclusion that NOT using guns

leaves quite a bit of game mechanics untouched. And while i cannot deny the bow and crossbow are quite

useful, especially when combined with stealth. i try to use guns more often.

 

Still, can't say i've had the magnum 44 blow heads clean off. Always leaves quite a mess...yuck.

[LuckyStar]

I've found in longer games [over 150 days] I've had trouble finding it even on RWG worlds.

 

I edited the XML's to have traders stock a bit more of it.

 

Not sure how A17 is going to be but yeah..... at least one more source of brass would be nice.

Perhaps just a bit more brass coming out of what we have now. That would work too.

[Reth]

I do not have a problem finding all that I need. There's plenty of brass you can loot and when you put a few points into bad mechanic, cars are worth their weight in brass radiators.

 

I'll run out of it in the town I'm in and move on to another town, generally moving my base in the process.

 

Eventually though, I'll run out of towns. I've never had this happen because the map is big in random gen, and long before I can possibly run out of brass, I'll try out a new character build with a new game.

 

I do wonder about Navasegene. (pardon my spelling, I didn't spell it right)

 

Perhaps when the game goes live, if that ever happens, and you don't want to start all over again and want to keep what you've built.

 

I found just enough brass in A16 to use guns "occasionally". I had to count my shots and "spray and prey" wasn't a viable way to do it. May be that was the intent? You only use guns when you absolutely have to and use renewable weapons when you don't?

[LuckyStar]

I'm noticing a few people saying they don't use guns.

That's not really a solution though is it?

 

I don't use guns except for horde nights and occasionally turrets when I'm in the mood.

Why should that be the ONLY way to play?

 

What about people who love to shoot guns?

Should they limited in the way they play?

 

Are you going to tell them they are having fun wrong?

 

I think this discussion is about those who ARE running out of brass not having a renewable source.

Traders seem like a logical solution.... or something like that.

 

With a better Trader system seemingly on the horizon perhaps we'll see things like this get addressed.

[Scyris]

I have honestly shot less rounds than I have fingers and toes, and I have 300 hours in SP. Guns just attract more zombies. Bows and headshots are where it's at for me.

 

This, I only pull out a sniper rifle in SP if its a special zombie, like those exploding cops or something, otherwise the good old reliable crossbow can get the job done, or even just a machete. I rarely use clubs due to the dual use nature of knives: Killing and skinning. Saves me a inv slot, I hope in A17 there is a bladed club mod that allows clubs to butcher corpses, even if its not as good as say the hunting knife. Or the mod could switch it from using the club skill to the blades skills.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'm noticing a few people saying they don't use guns.

That's not really a solution though is it?

 

I don't use guns except for horde nights and occasionally turrets when I'm in the mood.

Why should that be the ONLY way to play?

 

What about people who love to shoot guns?

Should they limited in the way they play?

 

Are you going to tell them they are having fun wrong?

 

I think this discussion is about those who ARE running out of brass not having a renewable source.

Traders seem like a logical solution.... or something like that.

 

With a better Trader system seemingly on the horizon perhaps we'll see things like this get addressed.

 

One thing I never get is "Why do bullets have to be made with brass and lead?" why not iron casings? and iron bullet tips. Or have both, brass casing with led tips is best damage/range, but you can make casings with iron or tips with iron for a range and maybe damage penalty. Only guns your ever far enough from the zombies for range to matter is hunting rifle/sniper. The rest of the guns require pretty close range, the pistol is especally bad for range.

 

For me though I usually have more brass and lead then I know what to do with, its gunpowder where I usually tend to run out, as I mostly main the hunting rifle or sniper. Though if shotgun has a silencer in alpha 17, which I think it was mentioned somewhere it does. I can see me maining the shotgun.

[Pico]

I am very conservative with my use of non-renewable, consumable resources, which is precisely what brass is in this game.

 

Consequently I am loathe to waste brass on the weaker 9mm ammo, leaving the sniper and magnum as my only powerful options that use brass conservatively.

 

However, the magnum is so rare that I haven't had a complete one since A16 dropped, and my only reason for a gun is to get out of a tight close combat situation (eg when too fatigued to melee), and that situation doesn't suit the sniper either, so I'm pretty much just melee for Z's and crossbow for hunting.

 

Might be nice to have for dealing to bears, but those encounters are so rare they don't justify wasting 2 additional slots (for the gun, then the ammo).

 

If brass was less constrained I'd happily abandon the xbow, as I'd love to max out guns instead, and then ignore bird nests from mid-game onwards.

[JCrook1028]

One thing I never get is "Why do bullets have to be made with brass and lead?" why not iron casings? and iron bullet tips. Or have both, brass casing with led tips is best damage/range, but you can make casings with iron or tips with iron for a range and maybe damage penalty. Only guns your ever far enough from the zombies for range to matter is hunting rifle/sniper. The rest of the guns require pretty close range, the pistol is especally bad for range

 

Bullets are made of a material that is softer than the barrel for a reason, so they do not erode the rifling. Yes you can have steel casings and steel/iron cored bullets, even jacketed bullets but the main body of the bullet really does require a nice soft material like lead.

 

Steel casings have their own drawbacks ofc too. Mainly it's harder to reload them and they cannot be reloaded as many times before material failure. They also need to be coated with lacquer or polymer during the reloading process to avoid rust and excessive jams and that's a hard thing to do outside of a factory setting.

[LuckyStar]

.....They also need to be coated with lacquer or polymer during the reloading process to avoid rust and excessive jams and that's a hard thing to do outside of a factory setting.

 

Yup this.

 

For that reason alone you don't want em.

Such a freaking pain.

[sargentcobra]

I have ran out of brass to the point were I can't get any by scraping cars lights and sink faucets, but I do ocasonaly find a door knob or trophy when I loot zombies or trash.......... Zombie aphocolyps starts better keep this trophy and door knob I got in stead of a weapon (thoughts of survivor before becoming a zombie).

[Krhymez]

I would like the ability to smelt down dukes again. In an older version of the game, we could smelt dukes into brass.

 

This would make a lot of sense in the current game. While i do understand that traders also sell brass and ammo... it is not enough.

 

Another option would be to just add more ammo and brass to traders. "unlimited supply".

 

I have also wondered if TFPs would ever add copper, tin and zinc to the game. Making use require copper to make wires, copper+zinc to make brass, and copper+tin to make bronze. Bronze could be a tool and armor level under steel.

[LuckyStar]

I would like the ability to smelt down dukes again. In an older version of the game, we could smelt dukes into brass.

 

This would make a lot of sense in the current game. While i do understand that traders also sell brass and ammo... it is not enough.

 

Another option would be to just add more ammo and brass to traders. "unlimited supply".

 

I have also wondered if TFPs would ever add copper, tin and zinc to the game. Making use require copper to make wires, copper+zinc to make brass, and copper+tin to make bronze. Bronze could be a tool and armor level under steel.

 

Agree on the first two [Dukes and Traders] not so much the third.

 

Not that it's not a good idea, we just happen to already have a little bit of inventory clutter.

I'm not sure adding more resources and recipes is always a good idea.

[pahbi]

I would like to have a, 'conserve' perk that kicks in and randomly collects the brass shells and puts them in your inventory when you fire a weapon.

 

Then you can use the shells to make more bullets.

 

Even a roughly 50% conserve rate would help immensely with brass shells.

 

- P

[Cadamier]

Well in multiplayer when we first started in 15.2 we did run out of brass. There was 9 of us playing... In single player it doesn't seem to be that much of a problem; albeit I haven't gone past like day 300 or so.

 

If you watch the sequence with the 44 Mag... It shows the player emptying the spent casings... Just saying there should be some type of retrieval... Or 'new way' to obtain brass.

[Scyris]

I'm the same, I don't really use the pistol or smg in a16, in vanllia anyway. In undead legacy mod, a box of 50 9mm ammo is actually one of the most expensive types. The pistol and smg are vastly improved in this mod. However, I tend to buy most of my ammo off traders, as I usually use melee or the xbow. Day 20 or so I usually have a stack of thousands of brass unused sitting there, lead too. Money=power even in 7dtd, once traders became a thing. Recent game I came across a 540 qual sledgehammer in the trader, so I been busting skulls and walls with it since.

 

In a17 however, with melee combat looking to be harder and the guns seem to be improved (Watch one of the videos, he is using a pistol only took 3-5 body shots to off one) Not to mention the fact all guns will have a silencer except maybe the blunderbus. I'd use the shotgun 24/7 if I had a silencer for it, so one shot doesn't wake up 3 floors of a poi. I really like the idea of how all guns have the same base damage regardless of what tier it is, and how its the mods that can increase (or in some cases lower depending on mod most likely) the damage value.

 

If they fix the sleepers respawning when you leave the poi, I could see me making noise outside on purpose to have the zombies come out to me, and open doors for me.

[Euzio]

Brass is the only real bottleneck I face when it comes to ammo. That said, if on RanGen, its not too big an issue but it does reach a point that I have to travel further as I strip a town/city of every available brass resource. Traders fortunately do help abit but its also subject to luck on whether they stock it as well.

 

I'm more in favour of there being like a copper resource node to mine. Though it would mean Zinc would have to be available in some form as well. I do remember proposing in another thread quite some time back to include copper ore veins to mine (we can expand electrical items and such to require copper ore instead of iron to craft too). Zinc ore would drop as a by product from mining all other resources like iron, coal, lead, potassium and copper even.

[Katitof]

You can have brass or use something else then shotgun.

Never both.

At worst case, traders should be selling more of it or there should be one specialized in selling different kind of scrap.

[LuckyStar]

You can have brass or use something else then shotgun.

Never both.

At worst case, traders should be selling more of it or there should be one specialized in selling different kind of scrap.

 

Yeah Traders would solve but something more than just adding stuff.

 

I thought about "Day 30" Traders.

Their inventories change after 30 days and they sell more of the stuff you might use mid to late game.

 

 

That way you're not upsetting game balance early on.

[Euzio]

Yeah Traders would solve but something more than just adding stuff.

 

I thought about "Day 30" Traders.

Their inventories change after 30 days and they sell more of the stuff you might use mid to late game.

 

 

That way you're not upsetting game balance early on.

 

 

I like that idea. Kinda like gamestage. That way we don't end up having mundane items on the trader we will never use.

[jdifran]

Scrapping a household door with a wrench (instead of hacking it down with an axe) could give you a doorknob some percent of the time, preferably increased via Bad Mechanic.

Firing a gun could have a percentage chance to recover a bullet casing, perhaps improved with a perk.

 

I think those two changes would make a big difference in the availability of brass and the consumption rate of bullet casings.