OneArmedBandit Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Replies inline... Again, I'm not advocating for fewer, stronger zombies. But it's wrong to think scaling up the zombie count will change the gameplay in radical new ways. If that happens, it'll be more because the overall challenge has been re-balanced as a side effect. This is switching from gallons to liters: the numbers get bigger, but the underlying quantities need not change. You are right with what you say, I think - but for me it wouldn't be a matter of "different gameplay" in the first place. many weaker Z's just seem more in line with *my personal* imagination of a zombie apocalypse than fewer stronger ones (which of course doesn't exclude the occasional boss!). So for me it would more be a matter of immersion (as far as one could call it so ) as of gameplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clethby Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Thoughts from a new player. I think that the number of zombies is only relevant if they learn how to reach you i.e climb stairs etc. i only say this because me and my brother just started playing last week and are really enjoying it, but the 1 thing that ruins the experience of base building and survival is how zombies just cannot get to you and instead try destroying the foundation. We are currently in the higashi skyscraper building and we are near the top floor, the main path to reach us would be the stairs. we have built a cool trap entrance on our floor next to the stairs........ zombies have NEVER found a way up (they wont even try going up the 1st floor lobby stairs unless we herd them up lol). so i would prefer more zombies but only when the AI is improved. P.S THIS is what being in a tower building should be like lol i love 28 days later EDIT: just thought id add i voted for more zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toores Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 If you're picturing that every time you fire your gun an average of X zombies spawn, to simulate zombies in the world being attracted to your gunfire, the game could just as easily spawn one zombie that's X times as tough as a baseline zombie. I don't want gunfire to spawn more zombies, i want more zombies that are there to become aware of you. Spawning additional zombies to simulate that is a bad solution. Firstly because firing a gun becomes just undesirable when it just keeps spawning in zombies. (or an exploit depending on what you desire) Secondly, it already is a bit immersion breaking when screamers spawn in zombies in places you know to be empty. I'd expect this to be similarly true with spawning zombies from gunfire. They will literally spawn to places you just walked through. In my experience they cluster pretty easily, day and night, regardless of how many there are. So drawing in many weaker zombies would be analogous to drawing in fewer stronger zombies. Having fewer zombies makes kiting easier no matter how you put it. Of course varying their movement speed more would make it harder but even more so with more zombies. You know when you kite a bunch of zombies and you get hit from behind from a zombie you did not notice? Only it happens rarely because usually you can just get all of their attention and back up some to get them aligned and walking towards you. With distant zombies it'd be much harder because the more you kite (and walk away from your original position) the more you have chance of being noticed by the "ambient" zombies. They'd be coming in form all sides... When would stealth be easier? When there is enough zombies that killing them one by one (stealth) is easier then aggravating all of them. ATM when you have lvl300 club you can just walk through city and kill everything you see. When the zombies would be tougher, it would just take more time and i personally would be pissed about "spongy" enemies. But never would i have to think twice about entering a crowded place because i might not be able to have clear escape path because the crowd is like 10 zombies or so. Only in the sense that more zombies have more eyes & ears to detect the player. If the player is detected, one zombie hanging around 'guarding' the PoI will cause as much trouble as X zombies, if the one zombie is X times tougher than a baseline zombie. Moreso, in fact, since in the many zombies scenario you might still avoid detection from some zombies after being detected by others. I don't understand, you agree with me that one tough zombie is easier to avoid then 20 regular because they cover more area? Yes, that's what i'm thinking. And fighting one "spongy" enemy is still easier then 20 regular. This one tough enemy is easier to pay attention to the a small crowd. It's like having 20 zombies stand in a same spot and all attack at the same time vs having multiple zombies attacking from various directions at different times and you'd have to be more aware of your positioning because you'd have to consider multiple entities covering more space. You could also scale up the challenge and the reward of each individual zombie, instead. Agree! And it probably will with the new "boss zombies" in A17... But i would not like to face Marvel supervillains instead of regular zombies all the time when my gamestage gets higher. Also, at one point the weapon progression is lost when i get better weapons but enemies take more damage... Can't kill all of a smaller number of zombies because they're individually stronger, lure them away. not much to argue there... It makes no difference whether you're evading a smaller or larger number of zombies this way. Currently it is not very hard to find your way though a couple of zombies. The cities are barren, why would i climb a roof? Again, Dying Light is a good example how to scale things. You have ♥♥♥♥ty weapons and no abilities, regular zombie crowds are tough. You avoid most of them. You can't handle tougher enemies. You get better weapons and more abilities, regular zombies become easier to fight and to avoid. You can start taking on some harder enemies and gain access harder spots/objectives. In 7d2d it seems to become a dead circle. You level up, get more hp and higher DPS, but so do the enemies. Scaling both sides wont make the payer feel more powerful. And the special abilities won't help either if you consider that melee still has only one action. It will be 2 in A17 but it's still: step in reach, attack, step out. More zombie abilities means you will use your strafing keys more. Not much else available. Hopefully we get at least block or shove as well. The feel of the combat wont progress at all... F**C, who's gonna read that... #tl;tr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pille Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 'Huge numbers of zombies' is to 'overwhelming the players' as rutabagas is to world peace. Roland, if you have too much free time, you should consider to join one of the many modding projects... These leading question style polls are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Being free does not tell you what people think of them. Not anymore at least, in an age of free to play games. Adventure Capitalist, to name one, has 89% positive user reviews on Steam. Anyway, loads of zombies could mean loads more challenge and/or loads more fighting, but it doesn't have to. One zombie with 10,000 hit points takes the same amount of damage to kill as one hundred zombies each with 100 hit points. I'm not advocating for the former, but my point is how tough the zombies are to kill, or how many clicks it takes, can be adjusted separately from how many of them there are. More emphasis on killing zombies doesn't require more zombies, and vice versa, and in fact many people asking for more zombies want them to be individually weaker. Its still just a lot of clicking the mouse... but, like you said, some people like clicking the mouse a LOT, to each their own. Mouse clicking without suspense or good reasons makes for a boring game IMO. You can not improve a game by increasing the number of mouse clicks needed, unless your audience is on the very young side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 >snip< <Edited to imbue some calmness - OzHawkeye> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 >snip< - See above - Oz. If you seriously have that much bitterness over a game you should probably take a break. It's not worth the anxiety, it really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadMole Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 F**C, who's gonna read that... #tl;tr Well... I did read some of it, but that was like having to skim cow milk to basically white water haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestarcanuck Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I want a destructible world that theoretically I could totally destroy down the bedrock, leaving my sleeping bag the only block in existence, save my tired out self. I would like more zombies than there are now though. So is it possible to destroy/remove every block in the game and only have you left? How many blocks are there on a 10K radius default map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestarcanuck Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Also I might add that I am FOR the destructible world. what brings me to 7DTD is more about the building with risk. what we need are smarter Zombies, yes I know that is probably an Oxymoron. others stated, it with a lot of game play I have mastered the machete+beer+NVG on horde night. I just run in a line, the zombie line up, I turn, run into them hit hit hit jump and repeat. we need to have zombies that are always able to lock on and focus on you. the running around in zigzag is silly. a feral Wight/Spider should be able to lock on and attack me non stop until it is dead or I am dead. So give me a builders world with smart zombies not MORE zombies. for I am Bob the Builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullpoker Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 When I want "Huge numbers of zombies that can overwhelm players by their horrific horde size." I play Left 4 Dead instead. When I want to explore strange new worlds and seek out new loot sources and new POI's I play 7days. Smashing and digging and building, oh my! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 When I want to explore strange new worlds and seek out new loot sources and new POI's I play 7days. Smashing and digging and building, oh my! In my head I went from reading it like William Shatner to Judy Garland. That was super weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Follow the yellow warp trail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Or...get to the Emerald slave alien girl with irresistible pheromones that absolve me of all responsibility.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Beam up my pants, Scotty, I won't be needing them anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullpoker Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 In my head I went from reading it like William Shatner to Judy Garland. That was super weird. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druga Runda Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Voxel world is what makes this game the time sink it is, but we should have max zombie numbers within that envelope. Actually we need zombies capable of destroying that voxel based world, to make the game come to full capacity. At the moment this is just not the case, and you would perhaps make it the case with super strong zombies, behemoths, godzillas and the like, but the true potential would be released if one could have hundreds of tiny relatively weak single units which when you do something stupid congregate on you and destroy what you were building. That paragraph right there - $$$ The game as currently set delivers a lot, but not fully on the above, so either way destructible voxel based world comes first. Capable zombie numbers come second. (capable of destroying the world, flattening towns, bringing down skyscrapers and such). If we cannot have enough weak zombies to do so, due to engine limitations, I would take a Godzilla as well as a best in class replacement to do the same. Would not be as much fun, but better than what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 When I want to do it my way, I play 7 days to die. When the final curtain arrives for my character, usually falling for a long... long time. I have no regrets. 7 Days to Die: Play it, when you want to live. **This has been a paid announcement by the Free The Kraken Foundation: Kraken's are people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer777 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 for christ sake who keeps letting roland into the special cookies >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minandreas Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I can't even vote on this one... too hard. I can't imagine the 7 days experience without the voxel world. But also can't deny that the single best thing that could be added to the game would be massive hordes of zombies with reasonable AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I can't even vote on this one... too hard. I can't imagine the 7 days experience without the voxel world. But also can't deny that the single best thing that could be added to the game would be massive hordes of zombies with reasonable AI. The HP bars take up too much room on the screen so there isn't any more space for zombies. Perhaps if they were single pixel zombies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druga Runda Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 The deadly germ epidemic where the germs attack the Voxels and you have to defend. There is a game in there somewhere. - - - Updated - - - 7 Days to Die: Play it, when you want to live. **This has been a paid announcement by the Free The Kraken Foundation: Kraken's are people too. Fully endorsed by Kraken's are Friends not Food foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 The HP bars take up too much room on the screen so there isn't any more space for zombies. Perhaps if they were single pixel zombies... On the plus side, people with lower resolution monitors would be at an advantage for once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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