Menace312 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 A. Thats just 1 step away from censorship, a very fine & dangerous line (me being paranoid and such) B. I think a company needs to hear those complains to better separate the legitimate complains to those that cry just to cry C. yeah, those that do cry just to cry usually arent affected by those things, but its sure as hell fun to try! Also, any info can be good info. At least to someone. Stating something in a hateful or accusing maner, can only ever be for your own personal sense of fulfillment. Think about it... Who's gonna take your cesspool of a post serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The griping that doesn't help and that TFP doesn't look for or listen to and won't make a bit of difference and that these forums were not set for is....business management griping for their studio. I defined what I meant by "gripers": people who will gripe about anything just to gripe. I was particularly thinking of those customers in the fast food business who might say, "You didn't give me my apple," and I would reply, "What's that sitting beside your tray?" Or maybe those people who misinterpret the tone of the cashier and get all in a huff. See, the problem here is that a legitimate business shouldn't lower itself to "ridicule and shame" to make a voice go away. That's horrible advice. It's one thing for a company to professionally joke and kid around with it's customers, and it's another thing to resort to school yard bullying. Like Roland succinctly said - There's a lot you can get from an angry customer that provides information as to why they're upset - Maybe what they expected and what actually happened - stuff along those lines. 1) I'm not giving TFP any advice on the matter. 2) I'm not suggesting that TFP be the one to shame and ridicule the people into going away. 3) I'm exactly talking about those people who aren't providing information about why they are upset or whose feedback is about things beyond the scope of the customer. A. Thats just 1 step away from censorship, a very fine & dangerous line (me being paranoid and such) See #2 above. Whether it approaches censorship depends on what we mean by that. I mean that I won't forcefully make them stop opining or even telling them that they are not allowed to have their opinion. I see nothing wrong with indicating to a person, in no uncertain terms, that I believe their opinion to be useless and wholly unwelcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I 100% agree with Raven on all he has said on this. In the real world, I am a small business owner with 20+ employees in the customer service business. I have hired a firm just to handle social media and internet ratings sites. Boy is it the best money ever spent! As a business owner, I DO want to hear negative reviews/complaints and, daresay, they are more valuable than the positive comments/reviews. Sometimes negative comments bring awareness to something that I need to address. I am not so eloquent in replying to them in an online format so having some organization or someone who is skilled at this is invaluable. Roland does a pretty darn good job at this for TFP. All that being said, there's a huge difference between negative reviews/comments and comments filled with nastiness, rage and ridiculous statements ie 'developers don't know wat thay doin'". Don't give it back to them as they gave it to you, thank them for their opinions and wish them well. It does not pay to get into pissing contests with these people. Reddit is full of examples of what happens when you do. I have complained about some things in the past about parts of the game but have never surrounded it with emotion. I say what I felt, tried to explain why then let it go. It either gets addressed or not, no big deal, I said my piece. This is a game after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I 100% agree with Raven on all he has said on this. In the real world, I am a small business owner with 20+ employees in the customer service business. I have hired a firm just to handle social media and internet ratings sites. Boy is it the best money ever spent! As a business owner, I DO want to hear negative reviews/complaints and, daresay, they are more valuable than the positive comments/reviews. Sometimes negative comments bring awareness to something that I need to address. I am not so eloquent in replying to them in an online format so having some organization or someone who is skilled at this is invaluable. Roland does a pretty darn good job at this for TFP. All that being said, there's a huge difference between negative reviews/comments and comments filled with nastiness, rage and ridiculous statements ie 'developers don't know wat thay doin'". Don't give it back to them as they gave it to you, thank them for their opinions and wish them well. It does not pay to get into pissing contests with these people. Reddit is full of examples of what happens when you do. I have complained about some things in the past about parts of the game but have never surrounded it with emotion. I say what I felt, tried to explain why then let it go. It either gets addressed or not, no big deal, I said my piece. This is a game after all. (Just stating knowns) TFP as a company are successful with how they have been running and dealing with things as a company. Even with their style of PR, as the sales have indicate year after year. Since it's inception as a company, it has been growing with each and every new build year after year (again pointing at sales). The only sure thing is: 'Time' Could they be more successful with a dedicated PR firm? maybe/maybe not. Do you rock the boat and change your strategy on how your dealing with everything? (PR in this instance) or Do you stay the course and assess how things go 'after' this latest release goes? Time will tell if they need to reassess the PR area but no amount of speculation from ppl they don't know is going to change that, till the results are in. Even then I doubt they will take advice from any of us whether you agree with how they are doing things or not. Maybe, you and others are right in them needing (or needing to look into) a dedicated PR firm, but maybe your not <shrug> All I know is, ppl have been stating they need to get a dedicated PR firm/ person, since the game has been released and the sales have been growing all this time so far, with them doing what they have been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I keep telling you guys that the alpha 17 release code is guppyisawesome, but no one seems to believe me... ...except the four of us playing a17 right now on our Rift 2 headsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 ...While I've gone from Bear, to Blimp, to Batman. I'll need another B avatar soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazdeuce Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 We may have to start calling you Ruthless Guppy. Unusually Ruthless Guppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (Just stating knowns) TFP as a company are successful with how they have been running and dealing with things as a company. Even with their style of PR, as the sales have indicate year after year. Since it's inception as a company, it has been growing with each and every new build year after year (again pointing at sales). The only sure thing is: 'Time' Could they be more successful with a dedicated PR firm? maybe/maybe not. Do you rock the boat and change your strategy on how your dealing with everything? (PR in this instance) or Do you stay the course and assess how things go 'after' this latest release goes? Time will tell if they need to reassess the PR area but no amount of speculation from ppl they don't know is going to change that, till the results are in. Even then I doubt they will take advice from any of us whether you agree with how they are doing things or not. Maybe, you and others are right in them needing (or needing to look into) a dedicated PR firm, but maybe your not <shrug> All I know is, ppl have been stating they need to get a dedicated PR firm/ person, since the game has been released and the sales have been growing all this time so far, with them doing what they have been doing. Maybe you got my intent wrong. My intent was not to criticize TFP or say that they should get a pr firm, that is just what I did. My intent was to say having someone, in my case a pr firm, handle the ugly posts and Roland is handling it for the fun pimps in a similar manner. If I had a way with words as he has, maybe I wouldn't need a pr firm at all.....I just don't have that. Roland has been more than patient with the ugly posts, rarely having them get him angry....as evidenced by his 15 rewrites of a post above. Some were suggesting to respond in kind to the posters of those comments, I'm suggesting you handle it with tact as Roland has attempted and which the pr firm does for me....don't give them any more reason to spew the garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy0330 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (Just stating knowns) TFP as a company are successful with how they have been running and dealing with things as a company. Even with their style of PR, as the sales have indicate year after year. Since it's inception as a company, it has been growing with each and every new build year after year (again pointing at sales). The only sure thing is: 'Time' Could they be more successful with a dedicated PR firm? maybe/maybe not. Do you rock the boat and change your strategy on how your dealing with everything? (PR in this instance) or Do you stay the course and assess how things go 'after' this latest release goes? Time will tell if they need to reassess the PR area but no amount of speculation from ppl they don't know is going to change that, till the results are in. Even then I doubt they will take advice from any of us whether you agree with how they are doing things or not. Maybe, you and others are right in them needing (or needing to look into) a dedicated PR firm, but maybe your not <shrug> All I know is, ppl have been stating they need to get a dedicated PR firm/ person, since the game has been released and the sales have been growing all this time so far, with them doing what they have been doing. this is like arguing 60 percent is a pass, I should do as good as i possibly can with that right? Simple growth doesn't = success. TFP have been successful, there is no denying that, but your arugements are pretty inccorect, saying "just stating knowns" doesn't make them knowns, it makes it a statement from you. This is how fake news is spread. they are not knowns. I've seen many of my friends drop off the radar with this game and move on since A16, and it's sad. Simple news updates to steam would literally reach 90 percent of the audience. Not everyone goes to forums for everything, I only frequent this one as it's my favorite game. There are rabid people who don't understand estimates and deadlines yes, and they are mouthy. Ignore them, you'll never please that person, if you did updates fast, they'd ask for more content. Ignoring your core fans and taking on a "side project" attitude doesn't help, having proper P.R, a proper social media presence is key, and necessary in this business climate. Why WOULDN'T you do that for the growth. there is nothing wrong with criticizing the length and the way communication is done. Simply hating on things because it's not fast enough, and ignoring information presented, is though, and for that I don't blame TFP for moving all the comments. If you would like to comapre games that came out around the same time, trying to do similar things in different environments, is ark, ark had a huge media presence, in a very very overdone category they are WAY more successful than 7 days. 7 days could be where Ark is now, it's literally the only good vox game out there aside from minecraft, it has no competition, where Ark has TONS With that media presense they were able to avoid a whole meltdown during the lawsuit times and stay in touch with fans and modders alike. That made the game grow big time. TL;DR not everyone is going to come to you, you're the customer, they are the business. It is up to the business to reach out to the customer, not the customer. If my cable goes down, its nice to know from a tweet or email from my provider, instead of having to root throuh 2700 pages of nonsense. p.s *edit. Just to add, if there wasn't tons of people upset about delays, there wouldn't be people passionate about the game, and that says volumes for the potential here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I was watching I am Legend, and first 15 minute of movie looks like it is trailer of 7DTD. When I first start playing this game year ago, I had already watch the movie and I told my brother it is loosely based on that movie. And in that movie Zombie even set a Trap, so yeah they can . those werent zombies, they were humans devolved to animal intelligence that he could bring back. these are dead and rotting. your logic is flawed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 those werent zombies, they were humans devolved to animal intelligence that he could bring back. these are dead and rotting. your logic is flawed Someone needs to see "The Omega Man"... or better yet "The Last Man on Earth"... or better still read the original 1954 novel "I am Legend". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burakin Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Humour is often used as a way to talk about unpleasant things. This is essential in society as that which isn't talked about is often forgotten and that which has been forgotten is often repeated. "We should talk about unpleasant things, not talking about unpleasant things is what allowed the BBC to hide a child abuse scandal for thirty years" Adam Hills - The last leg I'm siding with Gronk here (though I think I understand very well how it might not be your cuppa of tea - I got a few german friends - when I ran as an admin/mod on a german game server we had very strict rules about referencing 'that period / ideology' in any way shape or form). IMO anything that can't be joked about anymore at all is dangerous in and off itself. At the very least when something becomes unspoken off memory fades and reaffirmation of the social norm with it, which leads to re-emergence of strengthening of the thing that was avoided. I'm assuming that at least everyone who recognizes the meme as a spiel on Der Untergang, is aware of the issues covered by that movie and that is a good thing. Everyone who asks can be educated. Humor releases tension and makes unspeakable things speakable. Mockery (which this also is) reduces the import to managable proportions. In my observation these things are usually most offensive for those who would take whatever is behind it serious (!I am NOT saying that is you at ALL! - please don't t take it that way). I can think of a few examples, but that would bring RL issues into a game forum - I'll do Roland the favour of not doing that - he's got enough work already. Ofcourse there is no rule that you actually have to like it - accounting for taste in humour is pretty much impossible and black humour isn't everyones thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Someone needs to see "The Omega Man"... or better yet "The Last Man on Earth"... or better still read the original 1954 novel "I am Legend". i have, but those were not what he referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 i have, but those were not what he referenced. Apologies, misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that _you_ need to see these. I was pointing out that the work he was referencing as the original source was a derivative of a derivative of a derivative. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burakin Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Yup. Except your avatar is still an ugly duckling, when will is become a swan? While I've gone from Bear, to Blimp, to Batman. I'll need another B avatar soon. ***At Al's Marine and Disco Bar, we care that you spend all your casino tokens here... ALL of them. *** Try a bumblebee. Bumblebees are cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Apologies, misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that _you_ need to see these. I was pointing out that the work he was referencing as the original source was a derivative of a derivative of a derivative. :-) love ya anyways. now, onwards and give the guppy more smack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildaxeman1 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Then we will have something this Sunday? or my translator does not work well? c'mon Ayrton, do you see date?? i don't. may be ANY sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 @guppy, busy time starts for you next month doesnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burakin Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Then we will have something this Sunday? or my translator does not work well? Seeing paraguay, i'm going to assume that is a question not a troll. No, that's not what it said - there is a conditional in there that you missed. WHEN you see Streams of a 17 going up the intention is to have experimental into the waiting punters hands by the monday following that. When that is going to be is "undetermined" but "soon" but not before "ready". hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Who are you sir? You look like some cheese bread guy I once knew... is that mold around the edges? Compared to his earlier posting frequency he seems only willing to give us a few breadcrumbs now. Sorry time delay, i am still busy in "Empyrion" and "No mans sky" universes. But my ship heads toward earth. Dont want to miss the next zombie apocalypse. And my crust is fine, the void is good for bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I find your use of "trigger" offensive, distasteful, and uncalled for. Also "face" and "homie". Please edit your message to cater to my nonsensically sensitive ego and skewed worldview. Ah yes, I culturally appropriated In Living Color actors... Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 @guppy, busy time starts for you next month doesnt it? Actually been down your way recently-ish. But yeh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGringo Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Terminal Diseases confirmed for A17. :) Horray for the black plague and measles! I heard polio is making a comeback too. So, with no more vaccinations in the zombie apocalypse, we won't be seeing any more autism! Or maybe it was an anti vaxxer that started the zombie apocalypse in the first place. I could have sword one of these zeds looks like Jenny McCarthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFONZFRED Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Thanks for your feedback. Just some points of clarification: 1) Nobody is entitled to the details of what goes on between the developers. Giving details of setbacks or of what the developers are working on is always going to be a rare occurrence. Companies enjoy their privacy just as much as individuals do. I've already seen several posts here and on Steam and thanks to some reposts from Reddit by some altruistic people I've seen the result of sharing the details of setbacks. While developers do appreciate those who understand and encourage them, there are a lot of responses that include ridicule, that accuse them of incompetence, and that try to use normal setbacks as a way to drag the studio's name through the mud. So typically, you are going to get a generic, "There were delays" and anything more than that really is a gift. 2) The word "immature" was not used to describe those who are hungry for news or frustrated that A17 hasn't come out. I was very specific about the people I used that word to describe and it is not the group you are describing so you probably need to read what I posted a bit more carefully. Nevermind. I'll restate it it here. People who read phrases like "It's my hope that..." or "It's just a guess" or "the estimated date is..." and process those phrases as "I promise that..." or "It's guaranteed..." or "the rock solid deadline is..." and then rant about how promises were broken and the devs lied are 100% immature and I'll add the words "ignorant" and "naive" to that as well. I'll double down on THAT all the day long. I don't even accept linguistics as an excuse. Not even google translate will screw up a word like "guess" and turn it into the Russian equivalent of "promise". I'm trying really hard not to say the s word here that ends in -pidity because I know that gets people bent out of shape... The rest of of what you post is your opinion about what The Fun Pimps should do to fix their supposedly embarrassing and poor public relations which you are certainly entitled to share. Again, thanks for your feedback and for getting out of lurker status. Perhaps you should consider your own advice regarding 'reading a bit more carefully'. I used the words 'part of' reflecting a 'part of your community'. While I agree, no one is entitled by virtue of existence to anything, that is also not my argument. My point is that the mismanagement of interactions with your community is the source of such problems. As I said, it's all well and good to offer up insight on possibilities, but a flowing discussion on updates, changes, and problems is a level of transparency I've not seen from you Fun Pimps. Even your rambling above about 'trying not to say the S word', is just another symptom of an inability to cope with complex communication challenges. From a business perspective, it's not offering you anything of value to proceed as you have, and whether or not as an individual my advice is too brusque or perhaps in your opinion 'stupidity', if properly implemented, you'd gain much more value for your efforts. Consider a game like Empyrion Galactic Survival as a great example of interacting with a community. They post tangible update goals, not releasing too much information but balanced to gain customer interaction and hype. I highly recommend looking through some successful developer forums and considering the stylistic choices they make, both in reference to community interaction and toward how updates are performed. For example, knowing that a large part of your community is not posting on this forum, you could do some simple math to consider the proportion of outrage that might result in your continued strategy of 'der.. it dun win it dun'. If you have say 5000 active accounts here, and 500 are outraged, you're looking at around 10%.. judging by your player statistics on steam, that seems about accurate. You've lost 50% of your active players since teasers about Alpha 17 began clumsily being announced since January. You had a gain of about 8% heading into the idea of Alpha 17 being released, and a drop this month alone of over 10%. You tell me there is no problem with the way you all talk to customers, and I don't think the evidence bears fruit in your favor. I recommend having a meeting about each announcement you're going to make. Discussing each item to be publicly released is a way to make videos concise, fun, and to lessen the chance of having to make retractions. Releasing items like 'zip lines', Behemoth, etc.. and then retracting them is controversial. Until you're sure something is going to make it, it shouldn't be publicly discussed. Similarly, not bogging yourselves down with long public lists of 'goals' is in the same vein. This keeps the public off your backs, and reduces pressure. Consider how much more informative it would be to have a meeting every month or two weeks, discuss the concepts you're adding, and then posting a development blog with a run down. Link this in your Alpha 17 update post. This becomes a defined clear picture of the process which can be consciously directed near release. Now players can somewhat watch your progress, and have a basic concept of the level of completion. Offering up constant teasers of 'maybe', rambling videos with later removed content, and then reverting to 'it's done when it's done' when people start asking questions, is just a masterful way to say 'shut the ♥♥♥♥ up' and to reduce the trust people have in you. The goal of any business should be to generate revenue, and this is done by carefully manicuring processes and products to suit the customer base. 'If you're not growing, your dying' is a common statement in business. While your game has been out 5 years already, and made vast improvements, only yall can say for sure if you feel its run its course. I think yall can still gather several more heads of steam, if managed correctly. https://steamcharts.com/app/251570 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Actually been down your way recently-ish. But yeh. no offense, hope you aren't needed my way... btw. see you 2nd week of October down here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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