Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Pille]

You are correct, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed. Using CM is not working hard for anything, by any stretch of the imagination. Therefore, anyone using CM really won't care if the zombies are made even more difficult than they are now.

 

I disagree. It depends on the size and architectural complexity of the building. CM speeds things up. That's all.

[Prisma501]

You use your personal opinion to refute me and I assume your playstyle as fact for everyone.

 

I use human nature, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed by whim and chance. That's why people buy insurance.

 

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So if you can actually read my comment, you will see I said many, so using your numbers I am pretty sure 22% use CM

 

I dont think so.

 

Cheers

[graphite]

We have gone though a lot of debates and counters to those ideas mainly about underground digging zombies but it can be grouped within underground threats.

 

It seems like we have gone full circle several times back to the starting argument that some players dont want there base compromised.

 

The real question is do TFP want to have a completely safe biome or area apart from the possible outlined rentable trader/faction zone ?

[Royal Deluxe]

We have gone though a lot of debates and counters to those ideas mainly about underground digging zombies but it can be grouped within underground threats.

 

It seems like we have gone full circle several times back to the starting argument that some players dont want there base compromised.

 

The real question is do TFP want to have a completely safe biome or area apart from the possible outlined rentable trader/faction zone ?

 

Hmm minibiomes with a soil that is for Zombies impenetrable

[CrionLord]

Honestly I like the underground threats like a slowly depleting O2 meter that can only be replenished by going above ground level.

 

For me the idea of underground zombies tunneling it really an inconvenient question of SI. If you think about a long term game, eventually the undergound is going to become an ant farm riddled with zombie tunnels and you won't be able to depend on the SI of anything built above ground.

 

The other part is IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. Why in the blue blazes would there be infected zombies deep deep in the earths rock layer clawing away interminably with psychotic superpowers of smell to be able to sense players through tens of meters of solid rock?

 

Threats? Go for it! I love new challenges, but tunneling zombies? Let's all agree to stop talking about nonsense.

[Aldranon]

The real question is do TFP want to have a completely safe biome or area apart from the possible outlined rentable trader/faction zone ?

 

THIS, is the bottom line.

 

From what Roland said about Madmoles game play, he is OK having at least above ground bases destroyed and the fighting is what he likes.

 

Does that include below ground bases is the question. I think most in the forum want some kind of threat below ground and its split everywhere between total chaos and vault safe.

 

The Answer? Options. Give more options. Options can expand the player base.

[Aurelius]

Again you substitute your opinion for fact.

Nope.

 

A person who plays for the adrenaline rush will not spend 40 hours to get their rush when the stronger monsters start appearing, they will also want more and more intense situations to keep the rush. CM and much stronger monsters are what they would want.

Nope.

 

The number of people you play with is a small minority of the entire player base.

Can you prove this? More to the point, have you observed a significant sample size of players which would support your position?

 

Nope.

 

-A

[Prisma501]

THIS, is the bottom line.

 

From what Roland said about Madmoles game play, he is OK having at least above ground bases destroyed and the fighting is what he likes.

 

Does that include below ground bases is the question. I think most in the forum want some kind of threat below ground and its split everywhere between total chaos and vault safe.

 

The Answer? Options. Give more options. Options can expand the player base.

 

Like zombies off for those who want to spend all their time building for weeks/months? (80% of the players who play like that use that option. Its human nature to protect that hard work from being destroyed )

 

 

 

 

 

Kidding, but you saw what i did there right? Options could be a solution to some extend. But its not like every aspect of the game is gonna be put in options. Undoable imo.

 

Cheers

[Gnomaana]

The other part is IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. Why in the blue blazes would there be infected zombies deep deep in the earths rock layer clawing away interminably with psychotic superpowers of smell to be able to sense players through tens of meters of solid rock?

 

But grabbing a rock and tying it to a stick and digging "deep deep in the earths rock layer" makes perfect sense? Yeah, I don't think so.

 

I want to play underground sometimes but not if it is perfectly safe. If I wanted a perfectly safe place, I would just turn zombies off.

[graphite]

Hmm minibiomes with a soil that is for Zombies impenetrable

 

Is there any catch or is it just a safehaven.

 

By catch i mean you say soil but there must be rock and maybe that has no ore nitrate etc and maybe the location is surrounded by wasteland what i am trying to say what is the difference apart from it being mini to underground.

[Janna3921]

From what I have gathered, it isn't so much to avoid the zombies totally, completely and never fight them that a underground base is built, but so they can work and not be destroyed by zombies. Many do go out and fight zombies on some night, maybe not horde night, some do some don't some do sometimes.

What the "argument" is that we don't want our base to be totally destroyed by digging zombies. We have our workbenches, chem stations, forges, our loot, food, water, medical supplies, tools, iron and steel to make tools and weapons and much more in that base. How would a play feel if a bunch of zombies broke into their base, destroyed it all? It is horde night and you are fighting over a hundred zombies. There are the regular zombies but mainly cops, irradiated cops, irradiated feral cops, feral spiders, irradiated spiders, feral wights, irradiated wights, irradiated feral wights, bikers, big momma (an she can pack a wallop) and any of the other dangerous ones and they are charging one after the other, no break to get ready for the next wave. Your base, that you worked for 20, 30 or maybe even more real time on comes crashing down, everything, all that you have is destroyed. How would you feel?

I've seen some pretty awesome bases, ones that are breath-taking, build like a castle, a fort, a wide variety of shapes, designs, styles. They have decorated them like it was a real home, with all the bells and whistles. And they were underground, along with all their work areas. They had outside, away from their home a place where they fight zombies, take them on. They fight them as they hunt game, as they loot buildings, as they grow their gardens, cut down trees, dig for clay, iron, nitrate, coal, whatever is needed to survive. They aren't sitting around refusing to take a chance on being killed.

I want to get where I can build a place like that, underground where it will be safe from being destroyed. I want to be able to go out and fight zombies if I want to, and not if I don't want to. It should be my choice, not yours, Billy Bob, Sussie Q, or some other _______ who thinks they have the right to tell others what to do.

The Fun Pimps have stated that they want the players to be in danger, they did not say that they wanted to make it where they would be killed, absolutely no chance for survival. Plans are for safe places a player can go to. THEY can decide, but you and others don't have the right to state I need to be forced out of my base if I choose to stay there and if I don't leave it will be brought down.

Those are not the exact words, but that is what is meant by some of the remarks here and on the thread in the General Discussion board. I wanted it to be a place to see how many build a base to keep away from zombies, why do they want a underground base. Many get out and fight, when they want to and that is the key word, WANT. When they chose, make the decision, decide, IF they want, not when someone else wants.

The goal of the game is not to be killed by zombies in the end, but to survive. Yes, to be in danger, to have a very strong chance that you will die, but not for you to have no chance to live, to play the game out. There is a story of some type, and I want to be able to play to that end, if I choose.

 

I am tired of having to defend that I have the right to build a underground base, to keep it safe, that I am have the right to play how I want, to fight zombies if and when I want to and not be told by others how to play. That I should see having a digger zombies (plural, not just one but several) come down and bust out the walls, SI and see it all come tumbling around me. You build your base, put spikes, blade traps,electric fences, dart taps, pressure plates, alarm system, fall pit, high powered rifles, rocket launcher, pipe bombs and be behind cement and steel bars and fight the zombies, I am sure that you are in a lot of danger of having your base destroyed.

[Royal Deluxe]

Minbiomes are allready in the world.

This moment i try to make a "Definition" that places minibiomes in the world rare enough but big enough to build a base on it

Here made of glass

 

Later made of a new type of stone, inpenetrable for Zombies, going down until Bedrock.

So the Bedrockdwellers who dont like the idea of Digging zombies can search this Minibiomes and build there

[JaxTeller718]

Do you have a screen of the largest Buidling you ever made ?

(I dont ask like "You never made one so you cant participate", i want you to imagine what you would feel if a Random Digger destroy your base you worked on for 4-12 Real weeks)

 

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Dogs kill you = Respawn

Diggers (as i imagine them) kill your base = The work of many, many, many, real hours screwed

 

Normally I try to understand all sides of an argument but on this one I take a strong stance that if development is occurring around the ability for someone to make a huge untouched build then the game is heading in a direction I can no longer support. Thankfully I seriously doubt Pimps are worried about your Death Star build.

 

You want to make huge epic builds like that, turn the zombies off. That is what creative is for. Taking into account that someone wants to build a huge monstrosity like that and thusly shooting down the idea of advanced enemy threats is not in the best interest of content and longevity. The Pimps have given you a few options. Turn off zombies, or mod the ones you don't like out. It will take you 3 minutes to erase diggers from a spawn list.

 

But to be against something because it could damage a building? Damaging buildings is the very heart of this game. It is a fully destructible world. This isn't even about limiting someone's play style. This is blatantly saying "I don't want this because it would hinder my ability to make nice things". At some point large builders have to remember this is a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for.

 

Probably an unpopular opinion, but with a few around here more worried about the math behind their huge builds than actually making an interesting and challenging game Im just fine with my unpopular opinion.

[dcsobral]

Zombies moving through rock like Rocketworms

 

How can you see this not as a issue

Denys 80% of all Bases i ever invented

 

Screws everybody who has not the time to dig for some real days and make a Hole he can place his base in (like the basepics above show)

 

While I sympathize with your position, I see underground bases as an exploit. I don't do underground bases not because I don't want to, but because it's broken as far as I'm concerned -- there should be absolutely no base the zombies cannot attack, no base that does not require _active_ defense and repairing. This, I understand, is at odds with your own expectations.

 

So while I completely understand that zombies attacking underground bases would break your game, I do want them so that *my* game gets unbroken!

[Royal Deluxe]

No problem play as you wish, if i get this right with the minibiomes we can have both.

Safe spots "Islands of Sturdy Zombieproof Rock from surface to Bedrock" for one side in this topic, the rest for the players that want a "Underground Challenge" what ever this means

[JaxTeller718]

You use your personal opinion to refute me and I assume your playstyle as fact for everyone.

 

I use human nature, most people do not want what they work hard for destroyed by whim and chance. That's why people buy insurance.

 

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So if you can actually read my comment, you will see I said many, so using your numbers I am pretty sure 22% use CM

 

Im starting to think you and a few others are forgetting the fact that you are playing a survival game set in the apocalypse. Losing your stuff is about 80 percent of what the game is ABOUT. Instead of pointing out others as not understanding the point because of creative (which by the way I never touch) I think it is important to remember that if you want an undisturbed build GO to creative. You are trying to say people do not appreciate hard earned things if they use creative. There is another side to that coin.

 

Eliminating or down playing threats to your hard earned things results in your hard earned things not really being hard earned. What did you have to endure to get and keep those things? In the current state of the game it is VERY easy to secure your builds. Do you see what Royal is building? Yeah hard earned because he made it, but what did he actually do to defend it? Dig a hole? What threats is he facing?

[Gnomaana]

....I have the right to build a underground base, to keep it safe,...

 

But YOU aren't keeping it safe, location is. There is nothing to keep it safe from. No one wants a threat that can't be countered anywhere, above or below ground, but some of us would like to enjoy the underground too. And, to what seems like a majority of us, that enjoyment requires some type of threat in our "survival" game. No threat and the survival part is pretty trivial.

[Royal Deluxe]

I am tired of having to defend that I have the right to build a underground base, to keep it safe, that I am have the right to play how I want, to fight zombies if and when I want to and not be told by others how to play.

100%

 

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No one wants a threat that can't be countered anywhere...

At least we are 2, lets see how many see this the same way

[graphite]

Regarding minibiome sturdy safe space.

 

I could start working with the concept if this safe area was a late game feature where you could buy LCB that provided a area that created a zone that you could place hired guards.

 

Digger zombies would need to start at the surface and underground spawners would trigger to converge and target base when the topside digger has hit a certain depth.

 

But with hired guards digger zombies would not reach the depth and the underground spawners would never happen.

 

But minibiome with no downside to it i am not sure of but it is an idea so i hope others treat it with reasonable questions and counters.

[petruherro]

Anybody knows when mm is gonna give us a new vid?

[Jedo]

But to be against something because it could damage a building? Damaging buildings is the very heart of this game. It is a fully destructible world. This isn't even about limiting someone's play style. This is blatantly saying "I don't want this because it would hinder my ability to make nice things". At some point large builders have to remember this is a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for.

 

The problem with a large forum like this is that we have many sides discussing, and not every side is coming from the same direction even if they seem to be. I preface my comments with this to say that I might not be speaking for Royal or Janna or Aldranon.

 

I don't think this is an accurate description of this side of the argument. I think the concern is about directly targeting a certain play style. Obviously damage to buildings is part of the game, "a game with threats and as such those threats need to be planned for." The thing is that underground builders have done just that. Having done that, a new mechanic needs to be introduced to counter their plan?

 

(I think I understand correctly that TFP always envisioned some sort of underground threat, so that takes a little wind out of this argument. However, it doesn't change the fact that I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem that underground builders have with underground threats.)

[Royal Deluxe]

But minibiome with no downside to it i am not sure of but it is an idea so i hope others treat it with reasonable questions and counters.

 

Why, if YOU want a Underground challenge 90% of all Underground is yours

WE have the 10% without this nonsense

 

So more i need to defend my way to play so less i accept any compromises.

I feel like talking against a wall, and i really tried to find Compromises and explain the problems for my way to play. Nobody cares, so i join this behavior.

 

Lets talk about removing spikes

[dcsobral]

Because of this nearly nobody build near a cliff. And this diggers would make every place to a cliff.

The point is that there are a huge group of players who like to build really big. (With zombies in the world)

 

Look at this picture.

Dark Blue = Crates

Red = SI Pillars

 

to add a Defense against Diggers would mean instead 4x4 SI Pillars (16) you would need 6x6 Pillars (36).

I hope all that read this understand how much difference this makes. You suddenly would need more than the double amount of work and materials.

 

And if this would not be enough. Now imagine you will need to Defend 4-10 Storys. Means you spend the whole Horde night by running the Defence Rings of all storys. I cant see there any fun

 

I really don't understand the issue here. And I really mean "really". I don't have any problems at all with my base:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23093[/ATTACH]

 

For that matter, before I realized the game was broken with regards to underground bases, this is how I built them:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23094[/ATTACH]

 

So I can see a digger, and fight him.

 

So I truly don't understand what the issue is.

[Royal Deluxe]

So I truly don't understand what the issue is.

 

Show me one REAL bunker that is build this way.

And to quote myself

But thats the point, if Realistic bases dont work anymore you will see this "Cheese the system" bases much more often...

[Jedo]

In a real apocalypse I can think of many things in this game that wouldn't be real. So unless you want the game to be 100% real I can't follow where the parts you want real are good and the others are not.

 

I don't understand your point. You made the claim "no place should be 100% safe." I asked, "Why not?" and gave a reason why I disagreed with your claim. Your answer is to make a generalizing statement that I must mean that I want everything in the game to be based on (an imagined) reality? Why do you think that is an appropriate response which furthers the discussion?

 

I still think this is a good question for the underground threat supporters: Why should no place be 100% safe?

 

(I want the above question answered in its own right, but I also would ask a different but related question: Why shouldn't "surviving" give way to "thriving," i.e., winning the game? No game, not even an open-world sandbox goes on indefinitely.)