Valmar Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Updated the blocks XML and the icons pack. See more on the first post. @Guppy Not too far. Honestly I'm not sure there is a ton that can be done with it anyway. It's intended to be more endgame/rare. For example the hidden wall idea could use magic to "reveal" and "hide" the door, like an illusion. Some magically enchanted potion to give you a temporary boost of some effect. A wand that uses mana charges. I've also humored the idea of making at least one ceiling light that is powered off of magic - kinda like what The Elder Scrolls does with their ruins. Though I don't see there being much of it. Just for example I don't plan on letting players "craft" magic items or spells on a whim. They'd need to find a prefab that has it set up, have the rare materials, have the recipes and perhaps even have a certain level in a new perk. As the world will be pre-built I can control just how rare this all by deciding how many of these locations I want in it. Maybe you can enchant your weapons or armor with some kind of magical rune. Perhaps thats the ticket - magically blessed gear that has to be repaired with magic items. Maybe you can even have a quest to destroy all these magic locations - go team templars! Ultimately I suspect alchemy will have a lot more to it than the magic bits. New herbs and ingredients to make various potions and elixirs. If its possible perhaps there could be certain potions or spells you can cast that do more damage to specific enemy types. Not sure. We'll have to wait and see. Did you have any suggestions or thoughts in mind about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well, I'm a huge D&D geek and although I'm down for a full mod that does magic "justice", I'm more of the mindset that this mod be more... realistic, in that although there IS magic, there really isn't. It's just a belief. That magic potion that is a buff? It's really medicine. Although "magic" in the sense is "real", it's only real because it's perceived as real... when in "reality", it's medicine, gunpowder, and basic science. Why do I think this mod deserves the reality treatment? I dunno, because as fun as magic is, it's just that... only fun. I think you have the talent at your disposal to truly create a medieval world, and this game needs that kind of mod too. Besides, if you aren't going to do that sdx-kyjelly thing, you're pretty limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well, I did start out thinking that way too. Though then I remembered we're going to be attacked by hordes of undead creatures, cursed beings and burning hell demons. So, in context of that, I don't think having a little magical flare would be all that unusual. However it should be relatively easy to "disable" the magic bits for anyone who doesn't want that aspect. Either way I still expect magic to be uncommon. I'd say it would be the new minibike but Im sure theres at least one guy who will go "pff I have a minibike by day 3, learn to play scrub." I'd also squeeze in a Evil Dead version that possibly changes the zombie names to deadites and spawns you off with a chainsaw and a boomstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompyNZ Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm leaning more towards 'magic' being of the religious variety for it to fit the theme. I've been watching Vikings recently (awesome inspiration for the period btw). A lot of interesting bits with the English Christians clashing with the Norse gods (Odin, Thor, Loki, Freya etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 What about the enemy "possessed witch" that hurls magic at you and runs with her pack of hell hound familiars? If I put a ban on "magic" explaining that may be a challenge. Zombies, demons and ghouls are already supernatural and fantasy. Would having some magically enchanted gear and one or two spell casts really be that big of a subtraction of theme? If you both feel this way I will revise the objective. Its not like any of the ground work for it has been done yet, so these early stages are a good time to make adjustments. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompyNZ Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I guess what I meant was that the magic I feel would fit well if it was things like Christianity (rites to combat the cursed, demons and undead, holy water, blessings, cures etc), Norse gods (protection spells, weapon enhancements, lightning), witchcraft (hex bags, curses, undead rituals, demon summoning), Druidism (henges, we need henges [aras of protection], cures), shamanistic (cures, talismans, personal enhancements) etc Not the more recent D&D style of fantasy magic but more in line with things people used to believe in during those times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Ah. I think I get you. When we get to that point we'll discuss more deeply on the specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well, I did start out thinking that way too. Though then I remembered we're going to be attacked by hordes of undead creatures, cursed beings and burning hell demons. So, in context of that, I don't think having a little magical flare would be all that unusual. However it should be relatively easy to "disable" the magic bits for anyone who doesn't want that aspect. Either way I still expect magic to be uncommon. I'd say it would be the new minibike but Im sure theres at least one guy who will go "pff I have a minibike by day 3, learn to play scrub." I'd also squeeze in a Evil Dead version that possibly changes the zombie names to deadites and spawns you off with a chainsaw and a boomstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 It's your mod, you do what's right for you; like you said, everything is moddable, even mods. ...okay, so I've been watching the Shannara Chronicles (definitely NOT a good show, and NOT the books, but I am a geek, so... yeh) and the thing on THAT is kind of what you're talking about. There are elves, dwarves, humans and gnomes, but literally only ONE magic user, and he's been asleep for x years, so no one really believed in magic. Until the first Demon arrived. So now it's a world where forgotten magic is making a comeback, but it's still scarce as hell. That would fit your vision, imo. GoThrones had a similar premise. People always prayed to the Gods, but never really believing anything would happen, and now that it is, they're freaking out and drying in droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 NOTE: I'm posting and replying to a comment made by LokitheWeaver on the steam discusison board because I feel it will be easier to reflect back on his comments/thoughts on this in the future if they are in here in this topic. Can't post on official, so you get to see my thoughts here, bring them up to your group if any sound good. Back in the dark ages there was a game "Darklands" - some might even remember playing it In my humble opinion, a classic for several reasons: 1) Incredible amount of research / authentic detail. The Germany you adventured in was the Germany of that time period. Towns were where towns were, historically. A town had a cathedral or university in the game, if that town had one in reality. 2) Magic and Magical creatures existed as the people of the period "believed" them to be. Think "Grim's Fairy Tales". Witches were believed to have great powers and bad luck, sickness, etc. was "proof" of their powers. Religion was the only recourse for "good" people. 3) Alchemy was the tech / science / medicine. Combining the appropriate ingredients allowed supernatural effects - explosions to destroy enemies / buildings (gun powder); curative powers (medicines); extreme strength / fighting ability (drugs). Yes, there were demons. Because people believed there were demons. A viscious wolf pack that did not fear man and stole into towns and attacked people were obviously demonic (hell hounds) All of this plays right into the Medieval / 7D2D. (And possibly makes a lot more sense compared to the ambiguous back story of vanilla.) Many cultures have stories of "zombies", often based on some drug or disease process. I think you and I even talked about the potential for using something like the black plague, with a twist. A disease that spreads from contact, destroys the mind / higher brain functions, parts of the body rot, yet all pain sensors are supressed. The end result is a "monster" which was once human, feels no pain so it keeps attacking until a major body part is destroyed, rotted and disfigured. Burning ones, if restricted to appropriate locations (burned biome, burning buildings, etc.) are simply your basic "monster" which is on fire. Eventually the fire will probably kill it, but . . . All the rest can be easily handled by "tech" - Leonardo Divinci "invented" all kinds of things, most of which were never actually built . . . but if they had been? A controlled bust of greek fire, from a hand-held "gun" = wand of fire. A decent blunderbuss = wand / staff of fireballs. Electricity was all the rage in the 19th century, but what if it "caught on" earlier - an early 'taser', stored electrical energy, discharged at a specific target. An oddly glowing light. A new, stronger metal, able to be honed to a much sharper edge, or folded by metalurgists hundreds of times = steel weapons and tools. No, it is not the D&D world. Or Skyrim. Or Lord of the Rings. But it could be a strong world / feature in its own right. What if the Zombie apocalypse has already happened, once before. And your character was there at the first Day Zero . . . (Or perhaps that was not even the first. Possibly the Earth cleanses herself, periodically, of the parasitical humans : ) I'm still not sure what direction I want to really go. Originally I didn't plan on having any "magic" stuff. Then I saw a cool "fire wand" mod, pure xml (so no using third party tools) and thought "huh, so I guess there is some potential for this to be done with xmls". Then I think about how lacking we would be on melee weapons in relation to the vanilla game since we won't have all the guns. So having a few wagical weapons would add a bit of variety an end-game goal. Like a firesword, firewand, generic magic wand.... Then I think of the possiblity of enchanting weapons and armor with magically embedded runes or soemthing... Orginally a big reason why I didn't want magic stuff, other than just generally not being a huge fan of it (light doses are fine, but I prefered LotR over Harry Pottor, for perspective), was the xml limitations. The more I thought on it the more I began to think that I'm not quite as limited as I originally thought. Plus then you have the zombies. Damned zombied, cursed zombies, hell demons, witches ,hell hounds, plagued ones, darkspawn, deadites.... all these fit in if we keep the context of their being magic. infact some of the zombies would make MORE sense in this mod than they do vanilla if magic and fantasty are made "real". Giant bees, vomiting puking zombies and burning fire zombies being some such examples. You can be cured of diseases at shrines and churches. You can find holy springs. You have cursed monsters and demons actiing. You can enchant your armor, receive blessings, embedded your swords with magic to slay undead. Cast magical ranged attacks via use of mana, which costs healh to get (blood magic?). If I don't embrace magic, at least alittle, none of that would really make sense within the context. That being said, this will not be the focus. This would all be very end-game content, ideally. Getting the best enchanted armor and weapons may server a nice challenge or goal for the endgame. Im not sure its possible yet but maybe even speed modifiers could be added so certain armor sets reduce your movement speed but increase your endurance. Though in this area I'm not really sure how much is possible from a xml perspective. However, whether I go a full on realist route or add in a little magical flair this is all something that can and will be discussed more indepth at a later point in the project. The general idea is still the same - medieval time setting with zombies. Until I have a world to work with all the finer details are not that relevant. Though I suppose it will make wizard towers a bit less fitting - though maybe I could just change the "magic"blocks (containers and such) into being Occult. That'd keep within the theme ,should I decide not to include any magic. I'm open and willing to tailor things around to suit the feedback interested players give me on how to shape the mod. Mainly because I think both sound fun to play - both one with magic and one without. I'm not against either, so whatever way the public opinion flows on this, whoever makes the best "winning argument" for their case can have a lot of influence on what direction I take. However, as I said, until the world is actually done this is all counting the chickens before they hatch. If I cannot get a believable world set up to go with the theme then there will be no mod as its entire point would be... pointless. The finer details can be ironed out once these initial stages are complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrowthief Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So I been messing with this for 2 days and finally have decided to throw in the towel on it. Perhaps Val can figure it out or someone else but I've had no joy. This has been done before but seems to work a bit better now than it used to. I made a zombie pet that follows(kind of) and attacks the other zombies. My thought was to make an item that can spawn him like a wand or ritual circle. Perhaps the wand degrades a whole lot on each summon. In all my attempts I cannot figure how to get the entity to spawn with an item. I have used the minibikeChassis as a platform and still no joy. The other problem is I cant make the other zombies kill him. That being said. I'm not sure how far you are going with magic but if you go deep this could be cool if you guys can figure out what I have not been able too. Linked is a video of him in action of what I had so far. http://plays.tv/video/56b0ece4ef05a49927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Honestly, I have never seen any purely xml-driven mod that managed to summon a mob. I've seen a lot that have tried, but never a successes. I suspect its impossible to do, currently, without SDX modding to add in a new class or some other techno-wizardry. Would be cool, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrowthief Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Honestly, I have never seen any purely xml-driven mod that managed to summon a mob. I've seen a lot that have tried, but never a successes. I suspect its impossible to do, currently, without SDX modding to add in a new class or some other techno-wizardry. Would be cool, though. Yep seems impossible. I thought I had a chance when someone mentioned I should try the minibike Chassis since it does summon an entity but no joy. Perhaps in the future we can have necromancer classes. Or rangers who tame bears and dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You scrubs are never gonna get anything medieval-esque without SDX. Get gud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrowthief Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You scrubs are never gonna get anything medieval-esque without SDX. Get gud. Get us a sdx thats current lol. Im wanting to use it bad. But 12.5 is not in the cards. Boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Get us a sdx thats current lol. Im wanting to use it bad. But 12.5 is not in the cards. Boring Separate your 3d models, work on them until SDX is current, while you use the asset bundle extractor to see how the handles are being done. You can do a lot of stuff while SDX does not update. I've been working on my mod lately without SDX, and the results are still current, since I know for a fact little changed in the way of weapons in the latest SDX-able version and 13.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorrowthief Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Separate your 3d models, work on them until SDX is current, while you use the asset bundle extractor to see how the handles are being done. You can do a lot of stuff while SDX does not update. I've been working on my mod lately without SDX, and the results are still current, since I know for a fact little changed in the way of weapons in the latest SDX-able version and 13.7. Well I have been making lots of models in blender in preperation for it. I just wish it would come out soon. I have so much going on with current patch that going back and forth is more than I want to do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 @Razz You can keep your SDX. You let me worry about my project. If you don't like it or think it will be "medieval enough', thats fine. I've liked what we've come up with so far and see it as a very promising project overall. I won't let the lack of "gud" SDX dissuade me. If anything "beats me" about this project it will be the prefab building. Not that I can't make medieval-esque content for it. I'm doing better than I thought I could in that regard already, all without SDY2KXYZ. We all have different tastes. Some may be pickier about what they're willing to accept as being X,Y,Z. "Thats not thatch, its hay!" Others will be more understanding that its a mod project and understand what we're going for. I've seen a lot of buildings before that have found creative ways to build things that aren't actually in the game. Giant windmills, for example. "Thats not a windmill, its just a bunch of blocks! Get real models, scrubs." is not a criticism I see often. Most people understand what they were aiming for and appreciate it for what it is. Those who play this mod, should it ever reach that point, I trust will have that understanding and acceptance. If not then clearly it won't be a mod for them. Let the scrubs enjoy their petty xml modding, you big boys can have the real stuff. The real question is why you bother following this topic at all. I've told you the first time you brought this up (where you also called me a scrub, go figure) that I'm not interested in SDX and I won't be using it. To return to this topic only to once again to call others scrub and wave the SDX banner doesn't seem appropriate. If you have nothing of value to add other than to tell me it can't be done without SDX, then you've said your peace and I've said mine. Agree to disagree and go our separate ways. - - - Updated - - - More feedback from LokitheWeaver, pasted here for my later convenience of re-reading back. The "medieval" world setting is not historical, but future. . . Basic Premise: 1) Zombie Apocalypse starts with a mutated virus, originally blood born and quite virulent, it leads to a world wide pandemic, when it becomes air born. Air born version is not as potent and a small portion of population can fight off air born infection. Very few are immune to blood born. 2) Basic symptoms are as expected, loss of higher mental functions, pain sensors. Side effect is longer "lifespan" as body basically devours itself - thus the deterioration seen on most zombies. Zombie also show some "group mind" characteristics - more mob mentality, so lemming like they follow the leader. Zombies may also go "dormant" for long periods of time. 3) Initial pandemic almost totally wipes out human race. Survival rate in high population areas (cities, etc.) is effectively zero. Even the few who are immune, die from "natural causes" - blood lose or secondary infections. Small pockets of survivors remain in remote areas, either unexposed to virus, or natural immunity types. (Possible secondary kills do to human intervention - nukes, etc. in effort to "contain" virus.) 4) Civilization collapses. Some theorist claim that all knowledge is only 1-2 generations from extinction. As survivors stuggle to find food, shelter, etc. scavenging is the typical method. Written traditions are replaced by oral stories, so even books are of limited use. 5) All "stored" resources (food, clothing, weapons, ammo) are consumed within that 1-2 generations, leaving only very limited / hard to access caches of old "tech" which takes on almost religious significance: a local clan leader, warlord, etc. might have a firearm and a dozen rounds of ammo; a high priestess a small bottle of antibiotics.) Some machines - cars, augers, chainsaws are still around (religious relics) but all petroleum products have been used or have deteriorated and society no longer has the ability to refine these chemicals. 6) Fast forward some 200 years: 8-10 generations (life spans are shorter). Humans live in one of a few possible situations. Hunter / Gatherer groups, the descendants of the early scavenger types; Small "villages", mostly agicultural based, with specialized craftspersons; Settlers / Pioneers, rugged individualists / families with little / no contact with outside world; Gypsy / Traveling Tinkers and Traders; Religious communites (includes military arm and scholarly arm). 7) Technology level is ~ Medieval / iron age. Some variables with chemistry (alchemy) and steel. Ruins from the old world can be found, but are deadly (filled with zombies) and have little of value, other than raw materials. Surface materials (coal / iron / KNO3) do not exist, nor is mining an option as all easily mined materials have been gone for 100's of years. However, scrap iron can be easily looted, a rare cave might have a source of bird / bat guano (KNO3), charcoal can be crafted from wood or harvested from burned zones / buildings. Outside of ruins / cities, zombies are relatively rare, but small wandering hordes can still be a problem. Zombies actually become a primary source of "good" stuff - a can of tuna fish, that has been carried for decades, etc. End Result: POI's can include vanilla "ruins" with loot tables adjusted. No need to build an entire world of sod houses. However, pockets of civilization and current tech means that sod, timber, cobblestone, etc. is what people will use in contemporary situations. (This cuts the POI workload in half, or better : ) Survival becomes focus, Skills are key - someone trained as a monk / scholar can still read old texts, and may be more likely to "remember" science. The village blacksmith or person wise in the ways of healing or planting and harvesting provide tools and food. Finding a "piece" of old tech is mostly a status symbol and not a game changer. (i.e. that is a cool rifle, and can kill a bear with a single, well placed shot - but you only have a dozen rounds of ammo and are not likely to find more : ) Magic is simply "tech" that only a few actually understand (usually those trained in religious monestary type settings, where preservation of knowledge occurred). Common people, with only oral traditions are mostly superstitious louts. Stories told to scare children into staying close to camp, get passed down as "truths", etc. Okay, so there is a lot more (including some rough ideas of starting skills / classes, tech options and alternatives - clay fire pots, a thrown missile which does quite a bit of fire damage, bronze as precursor to iron, elimination - pun intended - of turd wars and replacing that with manure piles in aggricultural settings, for harvesting KNO3. If any of it sounds interesting, let me know and I can explain more. My half-assed response: Yes, it was going to be initially a more “historical” approach. Though even from the start I had planned on adding new zombies to the mix and the ability to cure diseases by praying in church. So it already had a fantasy vibe in the beginning – I'm just being a bit more embracing of it now than I originally was. If you add a bit of magic, in a way, the game would be more “realistic”. Whats the excuse for zombies hurling vomit, giant bees, or fire zombies? I recently watched two movies that really inspired me on this idea. The Seventh Son and The Last Witchhunter. I liked them both but I really liked the Seventh Son. It was set in medieval times and had supernatural elements. Magic was real but despite this it didn't play that huge of a role overall, at least not in my opinion. I liked the way it handled it. I used this example earlier and I'm not sure if it really makes sense but to me it fits: its like the difference between Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Both have magic, both have supernatural. Yet between the two LotR, at least to me, has a more gritty “realistic” vibe to it. Now, to respond to your reply more directly... It sounds awesome as a game. Though for a 7DTD mod... I think its a bit too in-depth. I do see that being a cool world to play in with a lot of interesting backstory to uncover... but as it stands, there is no backstory I can add to 7DTD. While I could include a brief description in the mod page (that most seem to not read anyway) the majority I feel would be confused by whats going on. Sticking with a purely medieval time period would be more generic and straightforward for people who just jump in to figure out. Though, granted, that does work both ways if I really go too far into the magic bits... Still, like I said, it sounds awesome in its own right. It's given me a lot to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (butthurts) My value lies in hinting this mod is going to be thousand of times better if you mod the original models. And this is, so far, only possible with SDX. There's no banner here; it's the plain truth, and you're running out of ideas because you can't take the suspension of disbelief effect that far in vanilla modding. I don't want to bring up again that I truly appreciate your mods, because by now you're sick and tired of hearing it (apparently if I don't bow down and make reverences you get slightly upset). If anyone wants to make a true Medieval mod a try, you're welcome to use Deathwish's models (no, I do not own any models; I just make them clean and tidy for 7DTD). Those prefabs you guys are doing should be cool. You're also welcome to come to the dark side, Valmar. We have cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valmar Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yes, if I want original models I need SDX. I know this. I said already I'm not interested. Nor am I running short on ideas. Hence the magic discussion in the first place. I'm more comfortable with the xml files. More compatibility, easier use. At least for me. Nothing against those who use SD2DX - acknowledge the talent and skill that goes into so things and can appreciate that. Just isn't for me. It isn't a matter of "bowing down with respect" though I do appreciate your consistency with relying on straw man arguments. It's you coming in here and calling us scrubs that need to get gud and claiming we will never get anywhere using XML, despite having already had this "SDX vs XML" discussion at the start of the topic. You like SDX. That's fine, thats great. I don't. I won't be using it. The polite response to this is to respect my position and leave it be - not come in later after everyone has put so much work into building good medieval prefabs and say "you can't do this scrubs, learn SDX". If it was anyone else I wouldn't think they were purposely being disrespectful but you have a history of such behavior so if the pattern fits... I'm more than satisfied with the work that has been done so far, all without needing SDX. That doesn't mean it couldn't be better and I've already admitted that. Its just not the route I want to take for reasons I've already went over before. That's all I'll say on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The 'smiley face' was intended to put the message on a light mood. Can't blame you for having such a thin skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Unless y'all have an antagonistic history I don't know about, this seems to me to be just a misunderstanding. I thought razz was just well, razzing you. I could be wrong. Moving on, I'm confident this MOD is doable without sdx and look forward to official modding support at some later time to make further improvements. But what do I know, I'm just trying to keep the peace between two folks I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stallionsden Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The 'smiley face' was intended to put the message on a light mood. Can't blame you for having such a thin skin. I searched and searched the internet. I read lots a books NO WHERE in any of them does it say that SDX7 was back in the medieval times lol. AS far as I knew sdx7 is a modern day era tool. So therefore sdx7 would not really fit into the theme of a medieval mod :-D haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacco Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Don't be the one who is saying you can't do this or that..... and the prefabs are simply amazing!!!! and I wouldn't try to get a windmill with sdx in, wouldnt work as a building. (Made some Wind generators, but that's another story) What I wan't to say is a medieval mod need's SWORD's, AXE's, and MACE's if they are not there, it wouldn't feel like medieval (except the environment). Please don't missunderstood me I'm the last one who want to put Gas in the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Please don't missunderstood me I'm the last one who want to put Gas in the fire ....yet you're first in the line with a full gas can below your armpit! Hahahhaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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