Bugged or intended?

[Jay_K]

Me and my partner are testing out the new Alpha 21 update (which is amazing btw) but we have come across an issue. We are now half way thru day 4 so 4 hours in and got infected. We have now looted multiple pop n pills and med cabinets but not found a single Antibiotic and not enough honey to cure infection. Crafting antibiotics takes 60 med books so its not like you can do that early game.
Is this intended, a bug or are we getting just very very unlucky?

[ElCabong]

This is intended. I once got affected and it got into the 90s, 92 I think, before I finally looted an antibiotic from a chemistry station. I tore up every stump I came across and looted every drug store I could find. 

 

I've played other games with the very first stump I  chopped up gave me  honey and by the time I was doing traider quests I had a couple of bottles. Very frequently the starter trader has an antibiotic for sale right off the bat and it is the first thing I buy.

 

Part of my routine every morning before I visit the trader is looking for stumps to chop. 

 

This is a random feature of the game

Edited June 21, 2023 by ElCabong (see edit history)

[unholyjoe]

51 minutes ago, Jay_K said:

a bug or are we getting just very very unlucky?

extremely bad luck because of RNG plays the way it wants to and is almost never in your favor....

 

but there are those who were/are born wish a horse.

 

so no, its not a bug as we have had it both ways in the same map. again.. Murphy's law kicked in for us. (if it can go wrong... it will go wrong)

[fragtzack]

Blake Shelton has the answer to all your ills: Honey Bee

 

In other words, go chop tree stumps

 

[unholyjoe]

2 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

Blake Shelton has the answer to all your ills: Honey Bee

 

In other words, go chop tree stumps

 

you can still get screwed... or lucky... none of it has a 100% guarantee.

 

[fragtzack]

The way the loot progression tables, I am 100% positive your best chance to cure infection is tree stumps over looting POI's. Antibiotics are not going to drop from loot at early levels, where as honey will drop. The problem is if you try to hunt for honey after getting infected, it will probably be too late because the infection will progress past the honey cure limit 5%. Therefore, if you don't hunt for honey early before hand.. you will end up needing 2..3+ honey to cure. 

 

This is why when I start a new game, I make finding at least a single honey priority. 

 

However, if less then level 6..Just suicide to clear the infection instead of trying to cure. Course if you are role playing iron man or something.. Well there is restart!

 

[Scyris]

I generally try to avoid being hit in the first place, especially when I got nothing to deal with infection. I usually hit any stump I see and buy honey if I see it at a trader. I always carry some. I've only ever had a infection get over 14% once in my 7600 hours of 7dtd. Jen and Rekt in a21 often sells a few honey. If you do get a infection you should semi-focus on getting it cured, before it hits 14%, or better before 4.5% this way honey will cure it.

11 hours ago, fragtzack said:

The way the loot progression tables, I am 100% positive your best chance to cure infection is tree stumps over looting POI's. Antibiotics are not going to drop from loot at early levels, where as honey will drop. The problem is if you try to hunt for honey after getting infected, it will probably be too late because the infection will progress past the honey cure limit 5%. Therefore, if you don't hunt for honey early before hand.. you will end up needing 2..3+ honey to cure. 

 

This is why when I start a new game, I make finding at least a single honey priority. 

 

However, if less then level 6..Just suicide to clear the infection instead of trying to cure. Course if you are role playing iron man or something.. Well there is restart!

 

 

Yeah I try to have at least one before I hit the trader the first time, its basically top priority for me on route to trader.

[SenLim]

Unless you're playing "hardcore" I find that it's FINE to die especially in early game. Bonus after respawn: you get full hunger and thirst.

[canadianbluebeer]

don't forget about the book to increase chance to find honey when chopping trees.

 

early on, buy honey/anti bio from the traders.

 

This playthrough, I've been lucky. got lots of honey.

Other times, nope, running about watching the infection get worse and worse, and finding ... not enough.

 

(and sometimes there just are not enough (read, any) stumps nearby to even try to loot.

 

They do seem more plentiful now.  er, more common. honey is still RNG hates you.

 

[KotCP]

I'm sorry but to go threw 4 Pop'n'pills, several med cabinets, lots of loot-able trash, cabinets, ect. 7 or 8 missions, 2 traders more then 1km away from each other and 7 different vending machines, 2 air drops and not a single antibiotic at all?  Something seems wrong, like it shouldn't be that level bad of luck RNG wise, kind of wrong.

 

With all that and more, something should have gave.  That level of bad luck is unnatural.

Edited July 19, 2023 by KotCP (see edit history)

[Reth]

A21 plays differently in the beginning compared to prior alphas. It's easy to get infected or wounded, so you really need to be more careful and better prepared. 

 

Antibiotics are quite rare during early stages, so your best bet is to go to easy forest areas and chop stumps for honey. Doing that *before* getting infected will save you a lot of headaches.

[KotCP]

Yeah, here is the thing, I usually am very careful, often times stealthing around most everywhere and keeping my bow out to head shot the sleepers before they awaken and take the time to loot ever box, bag of trash, crate, shelf, cabinet, sink, toilet, ect., so by the time I am complaining about this, I HAVE ALREADY GONE THREW HUNDREDS IF NOT OVER 1000 or 2000 LOOTABLE OBJECTS!

 

I am sorry, but even if the drop rate has been lowered in A21, I should have still looted or had a quest reward of an antibiotic by then, even if only 1.

That is way too many looted and quest reward RNGs to not even get 1.  That feels more like they where removed from the loot table altogether.

[Riamus]

Edit: Apparently, it is possible for them to drop at any time but it's very rare.  So ignore my original comment that they don't drop in early game.

 

Antibiotics do not drop in loot in early game from what I have seen.  On very rare occasions you might find herbals kind of early but they are still not common.  Honey is the number one way to deal with infection in early game.  Looting to cure infection is a waste of time and effort.  Chop stumps and you will find honey easily enough.  The drop rate is 20% and even with bad luck, you should have at least one within 10 stumps.  Once you get the book to get honey from trees, it is even easier since trees are easier to find.  Don't try to find antibiotics in early game.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[theFlu]

I'm somewhere d45:ish in my current game; I have looted a couple Herbals and a couple full fledged antis. I have about 20 honeys stored from treestumps, I knock them down when I see them, unless I'm real busy. Quite likely popped the 100 stumps to meet a 1:5 ratio, roughly. Jen seems to stock some quite often, other traders not so much; never bought any as I was always in a safe surplus after the first week.

 

So, they are in the loot table, and the quest reward table; but the only reliable way to get some right now, is to run the forest hunting for stumps. When already infected that's annoying, but it's the only relatively safe bet, as far as I can tell.

[ShadeColdfang]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:41 PM, Jay_K said:

Me and my partner are testing out the new Alpha 21 update (which is amazing btw) but we have come across an issue. We are now half way thru day 4 so 4 hours in and got infected. We have now looted multiple pop n pills and med cabinets but not found a single Antibiotic and not enough honey to cure infection. Crafting antibiotics takes 60 med books so its not like you can do that early game.
Is this intended, a bug or are we getting just very very unlucky?

i havent found one antibiotic yet. but got a decent amount of Natural antibiotics from Trader rewards.
so one good option is get out in the woods and cut down tree stumps for the chance of honey... or eat glass for a fast way out. if u can handle the revive penalty

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, KotCP said:

Yeah, here is the thing, I usually am very careful, often times stealthing around most everywhere and keeping my bow out to head shot the sleepers before they awaken and take the time to loot ever box, bag of trash, crate, shelf, cabinet, sink, toilet, ect., so by the time I am complaining about this, I HAVE ALREADY GONE THREW HUNDREDS IF NOT OVER 1000 or 2000 LOOTABLE OBJECTS!

 

Medical supplies are not in all lootable objects in the game.  Herbal antibiotics are in the uncommon medical group while the blue/white pill is in the rare medical group.  So you won't find them in trash piles or boxes, but typically anything medically themed.

 

Also traders have a 50% chance of stocking them, which is why I will always buy one at early game if I see it in stock if I don't have one to use.

 

And as others have mentioned, tree stumps are a great source of honey.  Typically by the time I reach my first trader, I have gotten a few since I harvest every stump on my way there.

[Vaeliorin]

My current game I made a map with no forest, and started in the desert.  Got infected in the first 10 minutes (f you vultures) and it took me until Day 6 to finally get rid of the infection (on 2 hour days.)  I found an herbal antibiotic (from a loot bag), a regular antibiotic (from a Pop 'N' Pills crate), 8 honey (6 bought from a trader) and it wasn't until I got to my 3rd trader than any of them had antibiotics.  I bought both of the antibiotics they had, so I've got one left, but I also specced into Medicine to try and get the herbal antibiotics recipe faster, so I can make herbal antibiotics now, so I should be good.

 

I looted every single medical thing I could find (including 2 medical POIs), and found hardly any honey and one antibiotic.  My infection was up as high as the mid-60s.  So it can be hard to find antibiotic medications, but if you keep looking, you should be able to find some.

[KotCP]

Well, given the fact that the only reason I even got infected, was because of a bug that allowed a zombies head to no clip threw a block and knock me off a platform, in a spot where I was careful enough to avoid falling into the pit originally, since it was one of those drop hole places where the zombies are not spawned in, until you step into the trigger area and then they both spawn and aggro, yet I was careful enough to stay outside of it, only for a zombie head to no clip threw the platform and knock me into the room...

 

I regret trying to fair play and find antibiotics, now that I died from that infection, that shouldn't have happened in the first place.  I should have activated the admin powers and gave myself an antibiotic, to counter the no clipping bug, before I died.

 

Still, gave me some insight as to some of how the looting table works now...

I don't think it is right that antibiotics are off the table for a while like that.

 

Even though I join servers that are not hardcore, permadeath, I play the game like it is that way anyways.  I simply hate dying that much, that I will leave a server or make a new game.  So when I get killed by a bug/glitch, that is particularly offensive to me.

 

I was careful enough that under normal game play mechanics, I would have normally been safe and not gotten infected.  I got killed by an infection that I only got hit with, because a zombie's head, glitched and no clipped threw a block it shouldn't have clipped threw. 

 

Next time that happens, I am going to activate the admin commands... cause that was BS.

Edited July 20, 2023 by KotCP (see edit history)

[meganoth]

Anyone would normally think: "Huh, I am infected. I'll have to check medicine cabinets for help". This is logical, sensible, what anyone would do. I find it strange that in this game that is totally wrong and useless (in early game).

 

I just checked the journal, it mentions what you need to cure infection. But it doesn't say that you get honey from tree stumps. A new player has no chance to reasonably know or guess or anyhow infer how to cure an early infection and that looting medicine cabinets is a waste of time. He might only stumble upon that secret if he actually harvests some stumps and notices that one actually drops honey.

 

Does anyone see a reason why I shouldn't simply report this as a bug?

 

[theFlu]

7 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Does anyone see a reason why I shouldn't simply report this as a bug?

Yes. But go ahead, can't really hurt, other than spending some time ..

[Abusimplea]

39 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Does anyone see a reason why I shouldn't simply report this as a bug?

It probably got reported years ago. But can't hurt to remind the devs.

 

Honey should definitely not cure infections. Herbal antibiotics exist and should be added to early medicine cabinet loot tables (maybe replacing that nonsensical blood bags). The whole tree stump honey thing feels like a placeholder anyways...

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Abusimplea said:

It probably got reported years ago. But can't hurt to remind the devs.

 

Honey should definitely not cure infections. Herbal antibiotics exist and should be added to early medicine cabinet loot tables (maybe replacing that nonsensical blood bags). The whole tree stump honey thing feels like a placeholder anyways...

 

The herbals that cure 10% infection are for mid game. I don't have anything against the honey, but either it is sometimes found in medicine typed containers or there is some new pill with anything between 3-5% cure that IS found in medicine cabinets. Or there is an early recipe for such a pill you can craft with stuff you find in medicine cabinets. 

 

The way people get into trouble with infection and having a hard time finding a cure is surely a positive and adds to the survival theme. I have a problem with that there is no way to find out where to find the cure and the sensible place has none. A normal player won't even realize he is looking in the wrong spot and put it up to bad luck. Especially when he eventually finds antibiotics in a medicine cabinet, but not because luck returned but because he finally reached the necessary level.

 

 

 

[theFlu]

16 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Especially when he eventually finds antibiotics in a medicine cabinet, but not because luck returned but because he finally reached the necessary level.

I'm looking at the xml:s now, it seems the antibiotics are all behind one of the

loot_prob_template="veryLow"

-type odds.. I didn't think those are scaled by levels, loot levels or otherwise? Am I missing something? No hooks this time, just a request for help: @BFT2020

[Abusimplea]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

The herbals that cure 10% infection are for mid game. I don't have anything against the honey, but either it is sometimes found in medicine typed containers or there is some new pill with anything between 3-5% cure that IS found in medicine cabinets. Or there is an early recipe for such a pill you can craft with stuff you find in medicine cabinets. 

 

The way people get into trouble with infection and having a hard time finding a cure is surely a positive and adds to the survival theme. I have a problem with that there is no way to find out where to find the cure and the sensible place has none. A normal player won't even realize he is looking in the wrong spot and put it up to bad luck. Especially when he eventually finds antibiotics in a medicine cabinet, but not because luck returned but because he finally reached the necessary level.

I don't think, the early, mid and late game distinction makes sense for infection treatments as you normally treat infections as soon as you can anyways - and later on, you can treat them faster as you have medicine stockpiled in your base. Later in the game you also got good armor and stockpiles of vitamins - so the risk of infection goes down significantly too.

 

This game doesn't need a whopping three items that can cure infections. We don't have three versions of concussion threatment either (we have one - the painkiller).

Just let noobs find herbal antibiotics in medicine cabinets early on. And the 10% cure amount is actually fine. 5% just isn't enough when you start hunting for the cure after being infected. Dealing with early infections shouldn't be a matter of having absurdly good luck or committing suicide. There should be a good chance that you can fully treat it with the first or second treatment you find. Harvesting twenty stumps to treat an infection just isn't fun (been there, done that).

 

Honey should be what it actually is for everyone who never played 7D2D before: A high-calories ingredient for the perfect breakfast or sweet dishes and beverages. Also, how about finding honey in the most unexpected place imaginable: Kitchen cabinets.

[Vaeliorin]

2 minutes ago, Abusimplea said:

Honey should be what it actually is for everyone who never played 7D2D before: A high-calories ingredient for the perfect breakfast or sweet dishes and beverages. Also, how about finding honey in the most unexpected place imaginable: Kitchen cabinets.

Honey actually has anti-microbial properties.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/