Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

Great points here 👍🏻

 

 

Hey Khal, great thing to point out.

 

I recently stated that one thing the devs are doing is adding things we don't need (lamps and plants) and not adding things we do need (more vanilla vehicles, more zombies - this list could go on forever.)

 

Your point highlights just another one of those things we didn't need 👍🏻

 

(P.s - the above is not fallacious - not either this OR that, both things could be added but I think ridding the game of at least some of the Attack of the Clones feel would be more beneficial than an old piano. I understand prop designers may not be the people who can make zombies but it begs the question of what they are doing.

 

If you are asking what the designers and programmers are doing who COULD make new zombies, there is an easy and obvious answer and you should find it immediately. It starts with b - and - it's even hidden somewhere in this sentence if you still need a hint.😉

 

8 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

 

More POI's are added to get rid of the sameness but the most blatant interactive entities (the zombies) is apparently a non issue? Lol.)

 

Yes, POI designers can not help with making zombies. That is how it is in the industry, most people working there are one-trick-ponies. Can you do two "tricks" ? Can you do them both at a professionally high quality level ? Are you really better than them?

 

8 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

Maybe restructure to have the fluff as a slower additiom which I'm sure people can wait for. I think I might; with therapy and meds, just be able to make it to the next alpha without being able to experience a wheelchair model.)

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

Were loot drops changed, I'm not finding info that? Since like he even brought up in the video you linked, using the A20 loot drops at least, there's literally no situation where I would *ever* bother crafting a gun in A21, I would just run quests to get it from the boss loot chest or the quest reward literally a thousand times faster than trying to find hundreds of magazines to unlock a high quality, high tier craftable.

 

Not to mention  it still being completely pointless to waste resources crafting if you still can't craft T6

 

 

 

Tell me you've never played multiplayer without telling you've never played multiplayer lol

 

Just getting people not to instantly eat every skill book is often hard, and begging them to pick up the loot and materials that aren't just bullets / guns is nigh impossible with the types who just want to raid PoI nonstop. But more than that, asking them to bring back an entire inventory full of books (the video shows it taking 60+ books to unlock TIER ONE versions of weapons) isn't addressing my entire point, that it just ends a whole role in the game for people who like to build and mine and stuff.

 

I agree that inventory space is problematic for MP games now. But I also think for someone staying back for mining, farming, mass crafting and building only a few book series are essential: The seed, cooking, electricity, meds and the traps book series. These are the 5 series other players need to bring back, everything else is optional and could be read themselves.

 

Yes, even the tools books don't need to be brought back as even looters are often back home at night and can craft a pick axe once in a while.

 

And I think the habit will grow for players to put secure storage boxes in the streets before POIs to collect stuff (if the inventory does not get an increase).

 

Real co-op players that is. 😉 One part of co-op play is to fight together and win. The other part is to help other players and feel good about it. We all do it with books already.  You have collected a bunch of die-hard PvP or single-players and try to play something with them they don't really seem to want.

 

4 hours ago, Khalagar said:

This. Mining was basically deleted from the game with A19 and A20, and now building and stuff will be very sub-optimal because you aren't spending that time looting for skill books instead. I used to always be a miner who lived at bedrock up until the changes to stamina and food drain made it so mining without an auger was a total farce, so I haven't had a bedrock base or bothered mining much at all in the last few alpha.

 

It's so weird what areas the devs focus on. If someone says "Why should I play 7 Days to Die over Rust with a zombie mod or any other survival game" you start talking about the voxel based terrain allowing you to mine and do all kinds of really cool stuff, except that has basically been completely ditched / ignored and there's literally no reason to ever dig in 7 Days anymore. Each alpha seems to turn the game more into just a looter shooter, where it has fierce competition from other survival games that already have that niche well covered, and to me, it makes me scratch my head on why the devs don't instead focus on the unique aspect of 7 Days by adding underground cave systems with infected nests and tunneling zombies and other voxel only ideas

 

 

Rust? Rust is a PvP game full of toxic players, I will never set a foot in there. Other survival games are often too much into survival to be a competition (at least for me). 7D2D is still providing a combination of features/genres that no other game can provide.

 

Though I agree that TFP is neglecting one of its two unique selling points a bit (the other being voxel building which got a huge upgrade lately)

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

15 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Though I agree that TFP is neglecting one of its two unique selling points a bit (the other being voxel building which got a huge upgrade lately)

I admit that the new shapes are an improvement for builders, but building itself is still optional. There is no real advantage to build a base from scratch since many POIs are suitable as horde bases after minor adjustments.

[meganoth]

2 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I admit that the new shapes are an improvement for builders, but building itself is still optional. There is no real advantage to build a base from scratch since many POIs are suitable as horde bases after minor adjustments.

 

I believe that was a conscious decision by TFP eventually to give more options to the player. By providing multiple solutions for many of the games resources and for combat. But whenever multiple solutions exist it follows that any single solution is optional.

 

 

 

[Matt115]

8 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Crafting for the most part has fallen behind in significance to looting for several alphas now.  Although looting is still involved in this change (loot mags), it does make crafting more significant again.  All Weapon / Armor parts are now more valuable since the player no longer needs to level up a specific perk in order to craft a higher quality item.  

 

There was also the issue of perking into a specific line of armor/weapons which would unlock all quality levels of every type in that tree.

 

See video explanation below.

 

 

Lazman... this not working that way - "All Weapon / Armor parts are now more valuable since the player no longer needs to level up a specific perk in order to craft a higher quality item.  " this cange absolute nothing for Tools/ weapons. Why? because weapon/tools need gun/weapons/tools parts that are not craftable so looting is this much significance - so this can't help nothing. In older alpha you could make steel tools and weapons just by sitting in house and mining.

So to "fix" crafting there is  two options : 1. craftable parts. 2. remove parts

Edited August 21, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

15 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Lazman... this not working that way - "All Weapon / Armor parts are now more valuable since the player no longer needs to level up a specific perk in order to craft a higher quality item.  " this cange absolute nothing for Tools/ weapons. Why? because weapon/tools need gun/weapons/tools parts that are not craftable so looting is this much significance - so this can't help nothing. In older alpha you could make steel tools and weapons just by sitting in house and mining.

So to "fix" crafting there is  two options : 1. craftable parts. 2. remove parts

3. Change availability of parts 4. change number of parts needed in the recipes

 

[Matt115]

7 minutes ago, meganoth said:

3. Change availability of parts 4. change number of parts needed in the recipes

 

Still would make looting more effective that crafting except situation when "complete" weapon/tool would be very rare so hunting for parts would be more practical

Edited August 21, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

26 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

So to "fix" crafting there is  two options : 1. craftable parts. 2. remove parts

My idea would be to separate crafting and looting somewhat. There are already items you can't craft. How about items you can't loot?

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

My idea would be to separate crafting and looting somewhat. There are already items you can't craft. How about items you can't loot?

Well...this can't work that way because this would be not logical. This is post apo right? so.. some things you can't make anymore because you don't have advance machines like lasers etc. 

[RipClaw]

19 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well...this can't work that way because this would be not logical. This is post apo right? so.. some things you can't make anymore because you don't have advance machines like lasers etc. 

We can weld the chassis of a truck, a motorcycle or a gyrocopter without even having a welder. Therefore, it is not that implausible.

 

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

We can weld the chassis of a truck, a motorcycle or a gyrocopter without even having a welder. Therefore, it is not that implausible.

 

Well because... it cound't be done diffrent is such game. Even in game like HL or DL vehicles are problems. so there is something diffrent bettwen simplife that "unrealistic".  factorio have a lot of simplificy while being so realistic in this same time

[ktr]

My apologies if this has already been asked and answered, but I haven't been able to find the information specifically.  Are there going to be significant changes to looting parts (weapons/armor/tools)?  The issue that I had with crafting those items was 2 fold.

1.) Generally started looting decent gear way before I had the amount of parts required to make it. As a result, I'd often hold back taking the next level in skill just so I could hopefully find those last few parts needed to make a lvl 3 wooden bow before jumping my parts requirements up to level 4 if I wanted to ever craft anything at all which then lead to....

2.) Crafting a piece of gear that was of higher level but overall crappier quality.  Have random stats, fine, but a lvl 4 shouldn't ever be weaker than a lvl 3, especially when combined with the scarcity of some parts.

 

Both pieces just made crafting for weapons, armor, and most tools completely pointless. I NEVER crafted or used a rachet in game because I never had enough parts to craft one before I found the impact driver recipe. Or just found an impact driver.

 

If parts are still rare birds to find, I'm not sure this crafting change makes much of an impact.

[Khalagar]

  

10 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

The problem is not in the game, the problem is in how "power-levelers" play

 

It's an old adage from game devs for decades now, that players will play the most boring possible way they can and then give the game a bad review, because one method is 5% more efficient and 90% less fun. It's true in literally every game, and something game devs have to keep in mind. The ones who will RP and take their time doing something they know is more inefficient is a tiny drop in the bucket.

 

That's precisely why they removed learn by doing (pls bring back) and a bunch of grindy mechanics already, because players will sit there in a dark mineshaft whacking rocks for 12 hours to power level a stat, rather than actually play the rest of the game. They have to nerf things like build exp, because players will just place blocks and upgrade them in the middle of nowhere to power level exp, if that is more efficient than actually building a house etc

 

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

Rust? Rust is a PvP game full of toxic players, I will never set a foot in there. Other survival games are often too much into survival to be a competition (at least for me). 7D2D is still providing a combination of features/genres that no other game can provide.

 

Rust has PvE mode like 7 Days and every other survival game, and has zombie mods etc. You can load up a solo world in it just like 7 Days. For the survival stuff, I actually think 7 Days goes WAY harder into the survival bars than any other survival game I can think of. In basically all of the other ones, food and water are barely relevant past the first day or two, and temperature is irrelevant pretty fast.

 

7 Days has your stomach being a literal blackhole where food is a massive problem for the first several weeks, and they are cracking down on water in a21 to make it similar. I'm fine with the survival aspect obviously, but just saying, I would say 7 Days is probably the "hardest" survival game on the actual survival aspect, and probably just in general really

 

10 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I think you meant Q6? ... Well, the devs said they'll be considering this, but in any case, as I already argued before with someone else on this, it's absolutely NOT a waste of time. The reason is that the game has progression, and when you're still in that phase of the game where you need <Q6 stuff, then you definitively need q1->q5 stuff!

 

Yeah meant Q6. And the issue is there is no progression because you will find a Q6 almost as fast / faster than you will be able to craft one. I've tested it many times actually by going either full crafting focus or going full quest focus, or going craft focused while my friend is loot and shoot. Because it takes parts to craft something, and you can't craft the parts, and the higher quality versions take more parts, it stalls crafting tiers out while you have to go loot anyway. Just chain running quests will power level you into the higher loot tiers quickly and the quest reward perks and vendor perks will have them selling Q6 t1 weapons and armor extremely quickly.

 

It definitely does feel like a waste of resources to waste all your duct tape and springs etc to craft a quality 5 only to have a Q6 as a reward or from the loot box an hour later.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

23 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Yeah meant Q6. And the issue is there is no progression because you will find a Q6 almost as fast / faster than you will be able to craft one. I've tested it many times actually by going either full crafting focus or going full quest focus, or going craft focused while my friend is loot and shoot. Because it takes parts to craft something, and you can't craft the parts, and the higher quality versions take more parts, it stalls crafting tiers out while you have to go loot anyway. Just chain running quests will power level you into the higher loot tiers quickly and the quest reward perks and vendor perks will have them selling Q6 t1 weapons and armor extremely quickly.

 

It definitely does feel like a waste of resources to waste all your duct tape and springs etc to craft a quality 5 only to have a Q6 as a reward or from the loot box an hour later.

You mean... you tested A20, right? Or are you a QA tester on A21? Because, as far as I understand, A21 will be heavily rebalanced around the new crafting system. Don't lose hope! 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Khalagar]

Yeah talking about A20. Hopefully it is rebalanced for it, and I know the devs aren't dumb or anything and are aware it'd be an issue, it's more just if there is enough time for it to be rebalanced for the A21 release. I'm mostly just confused on the why aspect, since it's a weird area to rework yet again, but it sort of kind of covers an issue I've had since the last rework. With the old system there was no point in crafting any lower tier weapons, because raising the perk level so that you could craft a Q4 shotgun meant you could craft a Q4 of *any* shotgun you knew how to make, so why waste parts on a double barrel when you could make a pump or autoshotgun instead. New system kind of addresses that which is nice at least

[KhaineGB]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:06 PM, Annihilatorza said:

Nah Roland, Let him put his money where his mouth is. 

 

Build a complete voxel based game with the following by Xmas

 

Base Building

Hoard Night 

Every block breakable

Farming

Electricity

HD Zombies

Weapons

Vehicles

Wind System

Feral System

Day Night Cycle

Looting

Crafting

Armour System

10km2 maps 

Ect....

 

Can I have until just after new year? Cos I can do most of that by christmas, but it might take a little longer for the electricity and a proper RWG with cities and stuff

[Slingblade2040]

I would love some what of a food over haul.  Spoilage timers, having to better balance meals and not just eat the same thing over and over. I'm not talking scum levels of micro management but atleast proteins, carbs, fats and water.  Would love more reason to actually need to have a farm in single player and maybe even raise animals down the line. 

 

Just seems the whole food survival portion is ignored in this game. 

[Laz Man]

9 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I admit that the new shapes are an improvement for builders, but building itself is still optional. There is no real advantage to build a base from scratch since many POIs are suitable as horde bases after minor adjustments.

 

Building your own base versus retrofitting a POI comes with their pros, cons and different gameplay which is a great thing imo.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Rust has PvE mode like 7 Days and every other survival game, and has zombie mods etc. You can load up a solo world in it just like 7 Days.

 

Thanks, that is news to me

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

For the survival stuff, I actually think 7 Days goes WAY harder into the survival bars than any other survival game I can think of. In basically all of the other ones, food and water are barely relevant past the first day or two, and temperature is irrelevant pretty fast.

 

Strange, then I must have played Valhalla and Don't starve wrong, because they did not feel as if I could ignore food after 2 days. And it didn't feel like in 7D2D where much of the foot drops just on the side while looting for resources.

 

Basically even looting is a form of grind, sure. Though I seem to have less problems with looting some containers versus hitting 20 fruits

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

7 Days has your stomach being a literal blackhole where food is a massive problem for the first several weeks, and they are cracking down on water in a21 to make it similar. I'm fine with the survival aspect obviously, but just saying, I would say 7 Days is probably the "hardest" survival game on the actual survival aspect, and probably just in general really

 

If you immediately want to start working nights as a miner, then yes, your stomach will be empty. But while food isn't plentiful it isn't like you can increase food simply by doing more grind, there just isn't more food around so you simply have to save stamina. That is a kind of limitation I have no problem with.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[meganoth]

24 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I would love some what of a food over haul.  Spoilage timers, having to better balance meals and not just eat the same thing over and over. I'm not talking scum levels of micro management but atleast proteins, carbs, fats and water.  Would love more reason to actually need to have a farm in single player and maybe even raise animals down the line. 

 

Just seems the whole food survival portion is ignored in this game. 

 

Meanwhile in the Dev diary someone just explained to me that 7D2D has a more severe food and water management than most survival games. Consider me confused. 😉

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Solean]

TL;DR: Learn by loot is a dangerous slippery slope in PvP, non-organic in PvE and kills the vibe of RP, also can read a book to make a truck with no welder, but can't figure out how to make a glass jar? or use the left over can from chili as a container to boil water in? If you don't want us building bases, just say so and take the blocks away. I'll give it a shot, but some of these "improvements" don't give me a lot of hope

 

I posted some on YouTube about my concerns of the new "learn by looting" system, it opens up a dangerous precedent in larger public servers, there are people who are perfectly happy destroying someone else's experience in a public setting because it benefits them in-game, while these unscrupulous characters would surely exist in real life, you offer them an easy target by making experience obtainable only by loot. the city locations will be prowled by people looking for the new books and hording them or drawing in those looking for these books only to be shot and killed and subsequently looted by these people making toxic players who are good at player killing, king of the hill so to speak. this hardly inspires a sense of good gameplay to me.

 

In PvE, it changes the dynamic of how people MUST interact with the environment, in single player it is already difficult to maintain a base and scavenge, but if I don't want to go out of the house to scavenge and focus more on building a bunker to protect myself and survive the next blood moon it is a viable option with blade traps, turrets and mines, but now, alone that is not an option, you have to go loot, you have to play a certain way, with this requirement, base building in solo is not viable once higher tier zombies start showing up (I don't use looping traps, nor do I use un-navigable blocks, there is no enjoyment to solving a dangerous puzzle if you remove the danger) so base building is going to go away in solo and in multiplayer, you better hope you have graceful allies willing to loot while you build because god forbid humans can figure out again how to make a rifle on their own, you have to find it in a book. I could build an equivalent pipe shotgun right now with what I have in the house, I imagine it would take time to figure out the pump action, but if I'm left to my own devices and had someone bring me the tools I needed, I could figure it out.

 

In RP, I generally (In 7 Days to Die) play the engineer, not very talkative but devilishly smart and harsh, think Dr. House if he was an engineer. with the new loot to learn, it take some of that away, with the first starting quests, you get 5 perk points, we use that to say "this is what we were good at before whatever brought us here." I normally dump all of it into Intelligence 5 and the last goes to advanced engineering 1, as time progresses, I continue on mainly int skills (Grease monkey, Robotics, Ect.) but if my chara wants to learn another skill, he has to either go out to do it or get help learning it from another chara. my GF usually plays hunter/gatherer, so if I want to learn to hunt better I either go hunt or ask, in RP for her to help me learn it. With books, it's possible to RP that, but the mechanics would feel all wrong, and if we have specialized people, they will never have a book to give, because they use it, or they sacrifice their own xp to give it to you which is not helpful in a RP during game sense at all.

 

I'll say the idea is laudable it has merit, but there should be an alternative way to gain experience. maybe not placing blocks and upgrading them, if you want XP in shotguns, make shotgun parts and if you find a book, that just makes it faster because you have a refence to look at. It allows for tighter specialties and opens the door for the bad ass zombie slayer, the cool collected hunter but also make the cold inventor and Hardened construction worker possible. and to make this more "balanced" have them stay at the work bench till its done, like a shotgun part takes 5 min to make, if you leave the bench you are not actively working on it so it pauses until you return or it provides very little xp. 

 

As for the jar part. I wish I had something good to say about the glass jar part. so there is no way I can figure out how to make some kind, any kind of receptacle to boil water in, not a one? Okay, in game without jars, I can think of three things I can scoop some water into a boil.

 

1. cooking pot - it doesn't travel well but as a base builder this isn't an issue

2. Can - I just ate some chili, now its a drinking glass/boiling pot

3. beaker - it's designed to boil things

 

I understand, its a game, but in a post apocalyptic world like 7 Days to Die, I can understand people figuring out a generator, I can accept a flying robotic aid, I can reasonably conceive of people figuring out how to make concrete. But in a world with all of that, I can't figure out how to make glass? a skill we humans have had for centuries? FFS there are better ways than this to make water harder to access or less safe to drink, add durability to the jars, tier one, breaks after a use or two, tier two, maybe three or four so on so forth, I don't mind filthy toilet water being the only thing we find, or find the water cooler that been rotting in the office for 10/20 years has gone foul but water and food are fundamental to human survival and we have been packing and bagging it  for years now, it would be the first thing I figure out how to transport around, and while a glass jar would not be the first pick, it would function in the moment and I would make sure I knew it was at least safe from basic contaminants. 

 

another way to make water harder, rather than removing jars which in my opinion is foolish, make natural sources of water corrupted water. something in the water caused the zombie apocalypse and a simple boil won't kill it, hell make it immune to chlorine, fluoride and many common sources of purification for story reasons and you have to make a purifier with like lead (gets rid of the zombie problem but has a host of its own problems) Carbon, or late game options like silver/copper or ethanol purification (Requires Chemistry bench). I don't like being pigeon holed into someone else's game style. now not only is building a base not incentivized, gathering isn't incentivized, but now I forced to scavenge to meet the basic requirement of water? 

 

Fun Pimps, I'm starting to like you which is a hard thing to accomplish, but please this is not the direction to go, because you are making a game, advertised, promoted and sold as a sandbox zombie horde survival game. People here and else where have fallen in love with the idea of building an impenetrable base but nothing I see here inspires people to build, or even have a home base if they don't have the tools or means to do so, and why settle down when water is going to be a perpetual problem, you will always have to go further and further to find more places to find water so there is no reason to settle down and if you get to a point of building a 4x4 you just drive during blood moon and there goes the action of even caring about a base of operations. and if there is not a base of operations, why even bother with the dew collectors because no one will really be anywhere long enough for them to matter. With that in mind why bother having the blocks to build the bases or have ways to improve the base in general or have a blood moon at all because without a well established base what chance do you have to fend it off except in one of the places you looted out. Ah wait iron scrap doors are the best doors in those building and they are mostly made of wood so, I guess I'll die.

 

it would certainly start living up to the name but it would not inspire a lot of continued gameplay. because "well I had a good weapon, I had a lot of scrap that was helpful, too bad I'm a Kilometer away and still have a fair number of zombies between me and my body, so, I guess Square one? no wait, I looted all of these buildings already, and they don't respawn loot for three days, so I'll starve before I get anything productive... " It spirals from there making till it is decided that, a single player simply starts over, or a multiplayer drains resources from a stockpile of his faction which may simply not exist because there is no base. if you don't want us building bases and play a zombie looter, give zombies loot drop, xp for the weapon you used to kill them and take away the blocks to build a base. 

 

I will give this A21 a shot, maybe it won't be as bad as I fear maybe there is something that I don't see, that multiplayer servers will share in the spoils with everyone (I wish I had that much faith in online randoms) and water will not be impossible to come by late game. it doesn't inspire a lot of hope though and hope the whole "water is too easy to find" doesn't stick around. it is a survival game, yes, early game, water should be hard to come by but as you grow and advance that should become easier, not harder, and in the same advancement, zombies will take more interest in you, shifting the survival part from "I need water" to "there are a thousand zombies out there."

 

now as a note to developers, I know how much goes into developing a game, and understand that you guys are moving from block water to voxel water changes how natural water works in the game, but doing drinkable water this way is not immersive and not conductive to fun gameplay in a lot of ways and please, I hope you don't plan on leaving it this way.

[Roland]

20 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I'm honestly not understanding what the point of the change even was / what it's targeted at fixing

 

Not every change is a fix for something that was considered bad that needed to be changed. However, in this case the change does help crafting become more relevant as unintuitive as that seems from just reading about the changes. I am crafting things much more often that I either just found or received as a reward. It also has injected a lot more important feeling loot into the containers that players are opening. It is going to take quite a bit of time to find all the magazines to max out a significant enough number of crafting trees for looting to feel humdrum because you're find stuff you don't really need any longer.

 

I believe the main point of the change was to help exploring and scavenging remain rewarding for longer. I know in previous alphas I would get to the point that I didn't care one bit about the type of loot inside kitchen cupboards and ovens. It all was junk that I no longer needed. Now all of these types of containers have a chance of containing magazines that stay relevant and rewarding for a long time. 

 

Whether this change sounds the death knell for everyone who likes to hunker down or not will probably depend on each player's need to play optimally. If someone wants to hunker but also be efficient and level up in what they can craft quickly, then they will have to get out of their base and go find magazines. If someone is content to hunker and not worry about how fast they are learning how to craft stuff then they will be fine to do so and just progress slower.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

14 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Yes, POI designers can not help with making zombies. That is how it is in the industry, most people working there are one-trick-ponies. Can you do two "tricks" ? Can you do them both at a professionally high quality level ? Are you really better than them?

 

 

 

What is this drivel? 🤔

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

However, in this case the change does help crafting become more relevant as unintuitive as that seems from just reading about the changes.

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

I believe the main point of the change was to help exploring and scavenging remain rewarding for longer. I know in previous alphas I would get to the point that I didn't care one bit about the type of loot inside kitchen cupboards and ovens. It all was junk that I no longer needed. Now all of these types of containers have a chance of containing magazines that stay relevant and rewarding for a long time. 

 

 

This is paradox Roland because 1. IF crafting is buffed this mean looting is less effective or 2. If looting is buffed that mean crafting is even less effective. There is not other options. LBL will forced players to scavengig even more - why to waste time to make workbench etc. if you can do quest to get candy and have better chance to find good eq. 

 

During just upgrading walls you can now get so much EXP so - exp--> fast iron tools. Now? why to do anything except crates or just do workbench just to make minibike

[Roland]

19 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

This is paradox Roland because 1. IF crafting is buffed this mean looting is less effective or 2. If looting is buffed that mean crafting is even less effective. There is not other options. LBL will forced players to scavengig even more - why to waste time to make workbench etc. if you can do quest to get candy and have better chance to find good eq. 

 

During just upgrading walls you can now get so much EXP so - exp--> fast iron tools. Now? why to do anything except crates or just do workbench just to make minibike

 

Looting is better because of the wide variety of magazines there are now and the fact that you need multiples of the same one to work up the crafting ladders. In this way, looting is better because it feels rewarding to get a magazine and read it-- especially when it is a magazine that hits the next threshold so you learn how to craft something new or something better. Crafting is better because with this new system I am learning how to craft things that are of higher quality than what I can find. So when I advance a level in tool crafting because I just found a magazine that lets me craft a green stone axe I can craft one immediately and replace my previous yellow one.

 

You are using A20 thinking about looting vs crafting. In A20, you loot and find a weapon or you craft a weapon and most of the time the one you find is better than what you can craft. So yes, in that context better looting means worse crafting.

 

In A21, the thing that makes looting better is the means to being able to craft better rather than the item you want. So looting isn't better because suddenly the containers all have blue bows which means you never ever craft one. The looting is better because you've found enough archery magazines that increase your crafting skill to the point that you can make a blue bow while you are still only finding orange or yellow level bows in weapons containers. 

 

So looting better and crafting better does exist. It's called A21.