Question about the upcoming outfit system

[IndustryStandard]

With the new outfit system I have to ask

What about solo players? How do the developers intend this new system being used by players?

Is the entire idea that players will swap outfits constantly depending on the biome and current activity? Do they see players feeling pressured to minmax as a possible issue? 

I'm trying to be more open minded about it but I'm having a terrible time getting behind this new system.

[Maharin]

Think of it this way.  Would you wear the same clothes to the beach on a summer day that you would out in a snow storm in winter?  No, of course you wouldn't.  That's what they mean by swapping out clothing based on the circumstances.  No more "one size fits all" outfit for all occasions.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

Is the entire idea that players will swap outfits constantly depending on the biome and current activity? Do they see players feeling pressured to minmax as a possible issue? 

 

I think they are intending for players to play with a prefered outfit that has the benefits they want and some disadvantages they'll have to live with. The developers are old-school role players and enjoy playing characters that have strengths but also some weaknesses knowing that going into a situation with some weaknesses can result in interesting stories even if it doesn't advance their level and earn them xp in the most efficient manner..

 

However, just like the rest of the game they will not force a set path upon anyone. They will allow players who wish to do so to constantly swap in and out different clothes before they they go and do different activities in different biomes if those players cannot bear the thought of doing something at less than peak advantage.

 

In other words, they couldn't care less that some min/maxer will get butt hurt because they feel "forced" to switch outfits several times each game day. That sort of gameplay is not their intention even though they know some will do it. Besides, the salt from the tears of min/maxers, who can't cope with game mechanics that make min/maxing less fun but character development gameplay more rich and deep, is saved up to season meatball sandwiches during every streamer weekend release event.

[IndustryStandard]

I really don't see how the new system isn't forcing set paths in addition to the very gated leveling system introduced in A19. And I'm confused how preventing players from escaping horde nights in vehicles wasn't another example of forcing set paths.

Regardless it seems like a more elegant solution for the large push for dated videogame RPG mechanics would be to change the character creator to pick stats and traits for your character to start with. Specialize or be a jack of all trades master of none or whatever. The outfit system and current skill system just seem to encourage more grinding for solo players. 
 

2 hours ago, Maharin said:

Think of it this way.  Would you wear the same clothes to the beach on a summer day that you would out in a snow storm in winter?  No, of course you wouldn't.  That's what they mean by swapping out clothing based on the circumstances.  No more "one size fits all" outfit for all occasions.

I'd put a jacket on or off. 

But if I was going outside to garden, mow the lawn, play, ride a bike or build a shed I would still be wearing a T-shirt and shorts. I wouldn't swap to my lawn mowing clothes, my bike clothes or shed building clothes.

Completely different if I went to a completely different climate.

Edited June 23, 2021 by IndustryStandard (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

Regardless it seems like a more elegant solution for the large push for dated RPG mechanics would be to change the character creator to pick stats and traits for your character to start with.

No thank you. I much prefer the way 7 Days to Die handles it by allowing you to gradually pick your traits and stats as you play. Why erase all of that and condense it into a simple menu before you even start playing?

 

Its refreshing to play a game that actually starts you out basic and let’s you choose your specialties as you play and doesn’t force you to lock yourself into some path as a prelude to the game. 
 

Huge no vote on this idea and a huge disagreement with you that the game forces anything. If you feel forced it is purely due to your choice to min/max. You can put any combinations of skills together and wear whatever outfit you want and be successful at survival in this game.
 

Perhaps some combos will result in you reaching the end of progression a few real time weeks after someone else who focused on the fastest path but so what? You still get there and different journeys yield different stories. 
 

But to each their own. Hopefully you can come to terms with it and make it work but I really doubt at this point they will make starting skill selection part of character creation in the top menu. 
 

Character creation is going more shallow anyway— not more deep. 😀

[Darklegend222]

44 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

I really don't see how the new system isn't forcing set paths in addition to the very gated leveling system introduced in A19. And I'm confused how preventing players from escaping horde nights in vehicles wasn't another example of forcing set paths.

Regardless it seems like a more elegant solution for the large push for dated videogame RPG mechanics would be to change the character creator to pick stats and traits for your character to start with. Specialize or be a jack of all trades master of none or whatever. The outfit system and current skill system just seem to encourage more grinding for solo players. 
 

I'd put a jacket on or off. 

But if I was going outside to garden, mow the lawn, play, ride a bike or build a shed I would still be wearing a T-shirt and shorts. I wouldn't swap to my lawn mowing clothes, my bike clothes or shed building clothes.

Completely different if I went to a completely different climate.

I can agree with you in some aspects, but some people believe that the bonuses will be minimal. I wouldn't worry about it until the update releases or goes into beta since I'm not sure even Roland knows. (he better not.. him and his plotting) worse case scenario, someone makes a mod to bring the old system back or to make the new system better and more manageable.

 

It's best to wait and see what happens when it releases and then create suggestions about what you would like to change.

[IndustryStandard]

That was the whole point of the thread asking for clarification in what the devs are envisioning this system as. But Roland seemed to let slip the attitudes the devs have towards people like me so this feels like a waste of time now.

[Roland]

That’s my attitude towards people like you coming through. Sorry. To each their own and everyone is welcome to play the game in their own style for sure. 
 

The devs aren’t out to get anyone. They simply aren’t designing the game with min/max issues in mind. The outfits are kind of like the books.  You get advantages from different clothes and a better advantage if you can obtain a full set. They are focused on the fun of mixing different combinations of clothes for interesting bonus combos or finding full sets and enjoying the bigger stat bonus you get from the complete set. 
 

It’s possible one or more of them might end up feeling more like you— compelled to change outfits to maximize bonuses for whatever activity in whatever biome they plan to do and if so they may implement a quick change mechanic to make it easy and painless to do. 
 

It’s not coming anytime soon anyway so at this point it is anyone’s guess. They might even decide to cut that and stick with what they already have. Anything is still possible. 

[BFT2020]

10 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

I really don't see how the new system isn't forcing set paths in addition to the very gated leveling system introduced in A19. And I'm confused how preventing players from escaping horde nights in vehicles wasn't another example of forcing set paths.

Regardless it seems like a more elegant solution for the large push for dated videogame RPG mechanics would be to change the character creator to pick stats and traits for your character to start with. Specialize or be a jack of all trades master of none or whatever. The outfit system and current skill system just seem to encourage more grinding for solo players. 

I only play solo and I couldn't disagree with this statement anymore than I am.

 

I have never been felt like the game is forcing me down any path.  Actually, any paths that I have gone down were determined by me when I started playing the game.  I have done it all.  Custom made base day 1 by Strength tree.  Custom made base day 1 but going agility.  Only using items I crafted myself.  Upgraded a POI to a horde base, every playstyle I decided to do.  Yes, by not going down the strength tree, I wasn't able to take advantage of the mother lode / tools perks.....but I was still able to build my base over time.  Is grinding involved?  Of course, but it doesn't matter what path you choose, you will still see some grinding to gather the materials you need for the game.  Int perks improve the grinding of forged metals and crafting.  Strength perks improve the grinding of mining and harvesting building materials.  Perception perks improve the grinding of salvaging materials.  However, not having any of these perks doesn't automatically make it impossible to build my base or gather the resources I need for traps and gather resources.

 

As for the outfit system, why does it matter to always have the "best" outfit for each specific situation?  If mining resources is my primary objective for that day, then I will wear an outfit that benefits that activity.  I won't change out outfits if I decide to first loot out a POI that is close by (unless I was planning on returning back to my base first, then I might change out).  But if I don't change out, it is not as if the game is punishing me for that - I just don't gain the benefits from the swap.  I have at times forgotten to change out my nerdy glasses from the previous evening to the lucky looter googles when I start looting a POI.  I don't stop what I am doing and go back to get the other eyewear.  I just do it.  If I do go back to my base to swap them out, that is my choice - not the game forcing me to do anything.

 

The horde system is a basic part of the game; in fact, I would say it is the CORE aspect of the game (the game is called 7D2D and the default horde night setting is every 7 days.......).  If you are playing solo and you just want to avoid the horde night by using vehicles, why not just simply shut off the horde nights?  That is actually an option that TFP provided to us players.  If you are playing multiplayer server and the settings are setup for horde nights, then it is your choice to play under those conditions; not TFP or even the server managers.

[Maharin]

11 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

I'd put a jacket on or off. 

But if I was going outside to garden, mow the lawn, play, ride a bike or build a shed I would still be wearing a T-shirt and shorts. I wouldn't swap to my lawn mowing clothes, my bike clothes or shed building clothes.

Completely different if I went to a completely different climate.

 

I guess the point is that not all clothing is useful for every purpose or every occasion.  Having clothing with specific traits to it and allowing you to choose the outfit that best suits your needs is the way to go.  The biggest aspect they're adding is that sets give bonuses specific to a theme or role, with each set having different combinations of attributes.  So a set of military style clothing would give you different attributes than clothing someone might use for parkour or skiing or mountain climbing.  It's not just about temperature but precipitation, terrain, natural protections, needs for flexibility, durability, etc.

[Boidster]

12 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

But if I was going outside to garden, mow the lawn, play, ride a bike or build a shed I would still be wearing a T-shirt and shorts. I wouldn't swap to my lawn mowing clothes, my bike clothes or shed building clothes.

 

An excellent choice! However, even RealLife™ offers you clothing with specific perks for those activities. You are choosing not to min/max your life, why do it in game?

 

Gardening gloves: +1 defense to brambles and thorns

Long pants: +1 vs sticks and rocks thrown by mower, 20% resistance to abrasions and insect bites

Fitted sneakers: 25% agility boost when playing

Padded shorts: 30% reduction in duration of numbnuts (male characters only)

Carpenter's belt/apron: carry 50% more shed-building supplies, 25% faster equipping of tools

[Colin248]

if im frank, i hope they dont follow through with this plan. part of the charm of a rpg is making your character look your own. sure you could midmax, but, many players im sure in fallout and such go for what looks snazzy, as much as what is effective. 

 

by cuttin down the current system to a 4 peice system, that just seams realy lame. them backtracking yet another feature. one after another, of things they just couldent handle. tho i suppose, if the 4 peice system is put in place ON TOP of whats currently functioning, that would be better. that way we still have glasses, mouth, hat, arm, leg, chest, shirt, blah blah blah slots. 

[Roland]

16 minutes ago, Colin248 said:

what looks snazzy

 

The four pieces of each outfit are meant to look good together and will definitely look more snazzy than what we have now. Snaz is definitely one of the objectives of the change.

[Colin248]

8 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

The four pieces of each outfit are meant to look good together and will definitely look more snazzy than what we have now. Snaz is definitely one of the objectives of the change.

the current system just needs refineing, not toneing down. leather armour showing up from under the trench coat for example. sorting the clipping issues and such. what they have planned seams like they couldent handle that so they toned it back with this decision. 

[meganoth]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

The four pieces of each outfit are meant to look good together and will definitely look more snazzy than what we have now. Snaz is definitely one of the objectives of the change.

 

They may look good together, but with the sets almost every player will look the same. And even the non-confomists will have much less variation.

 

Finally a good use for the thumbs down button 😁

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

every player will look the same.

There's, what, three looks total atm, Leather jacket with Iron helmet, a Hood or a cowboy mod.

 

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Finally a good use for the thumbs down button 😁

To stay on the positive side, I'll just like yours instead

[Roland]

51 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

They may look good together, but with the sets almost every player will look the same. And even the non-confomists will have much less variation.

 

Finally a good use for the thumbs down button 😁

 

pfft…because everyone looks so different now…

 

This is not an area I even care about. I play with three other people and I focus on the name floating above them rather than how their clothes look. I’m probably not the best one to really comment on this aspect of the game. I spend zero time customizing my character and I wear what I find regardless of how I looks. Based on the concept art it seems to me that the outfits will make us look better over all.  I accept thumbs down from all who enjoy the whole fashion part of the game and care about accessorizing 8 clothing slots. 
 

Im also okay with preset characters instead of character customization menus. 
 

Hit that dislike button again! 😂

Edited June 23, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Roland]

39 minutes ago, Colin248 said:

the current system just needs refineing, not toneing down. leather armour showing up from under the trench coat for example. sorting the clipping issues and such. what they have planned seams like they couldent handle that so they toned it back with this decision. 

Maybe that’s true. Maybe they can’t solve the problems and have chosen the proposed changes as their solution. After seven years nobody can say they haven’t tried their best. <shrug> At some point you have to come to terms with your limits and solve problems in a way that you can “handle” and can bring the project to a close in a timely manner. 

 

[meganoth]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

pfft…because everyone looks so different now…

 

You haven't seen my pink survivor. Would have liked the pink to be even more visible for more eyesore, but oh well. And yes, it isn't ideal that much of the clothing, for example the shirts, aren't even visible. Which supports your point, but only slightly 😉

 

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

This is not an area I even care about. I play with three other people and I focus on the name floating above them rather than how their clothes look. I’m probably not the best one to really comment on this aspect of the game. I spend zero time customizing my character and I wear what I find regardless of how I looks. Based on the concept art it seems to me that the outfits will make us look better over all.  I accept thumbs down from all who enjoy the whole fashion part of the game and care about accessorizing 8 clothing slots. 

 

I sometimes care for the looks when I can have some fun with it, creating really conspicuous toons. While 7D2d hasn't much to offer in that regard I fear it will be less after the change. But agreed, not an important feature.

 

[Roland]

I added more in bold. You might want to read and react

[meganoth]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

I added more in bold. You might want to read and react

I had to add that thumb for a seamless progression anyway 😉

 

Where's the icon with the 3 thumbs down by the way 😁

Edited June 23, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Maharin]

[Boidster]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

Hit that dislike button again!

 

I did, but only because I want to be accommodating; I agree with the post. Also:

 

 

I will add dye to my armor and clothes some times, but don't care too much. And they already have mods like the Paperboy Hat mod - why couldn't the outfits have mods which change their appearance? They could give them away in RNG loot boxes that you can buy for only $2.99 for a 3-pack!

[Maharin]

Personally, I think they should just have dye slots in the equipment screen instead of on each piece of gear.  It's a time saver that has zero impact on the game.  Want a black helmet?  Find black dye, put it next to the helmet slot and anything you wear on your head gets painted black.

 

Great, now this is stuck in my head:

 

 

[eXSe]

Speaking of ingame attire... why isn't there chainmail armor like those shark suits?

 

 

Let me see a zambie scratch or bite me through this baby

Edited June 24, 2021 by eXSe (see edit history)