Question about the upcoming outfit system

[Roland]

17 hours ago, Colin248 said:

side note roland, if the fun pimps put out a idea, such ideas should be questioned and thought about. after all isnt that the point of EA? to help the game develop? 

Sure thing!  But effective questioning about the idea doesn’t necessarily mean questioning whether it should be done at all. That questioning is pointless because whether we want them to do it or not, they are going to do it if they decide it should be done. 
 

Assuming that it will be done, questioning how it will be implemented and how it might be an improvement is far more interesting than just asking, “If no one wants it then why are they doing it?”

 

The problem is that most critics are NOT questioning. They’ve already decided for themselves that it is a bad idea. 
 

so yeah, question and imagine and discuss— but I can answer the question of “Are they going to do this?” definitively: 

 

Yes they are if they have time to do it. 

[Maharin]

6 hours ago, playlessNamer said:

I was so 100% sure the first comment will be exactly this.

 

But it's true.  You haven't seen the changes so complaining about them is premature.  Saying everyone will wear the same clothing is premature.  If the clothing sets are profession based (or class based) then things will be different than if they are role based (such as harvesting, crafting, combat, etc.).  There are lots of options they could go with.  And it may not be strictly any of these.  Hell, they might even change skill trees based on what clothing sets might offer them.  Who knows?

 

But no matter what TFP is still not forcing you to do anything.  You will choose as you see fit.

[Colin248]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Sure thing!  But effective questioning about the idea doesn’t necessarily mean questioning whether it should be done at all. That questioning is pointless because whether we want them to do it or not, they are going to do it if they decide it should be done. 
 

Assuming that it will be done, questioning how it will be implemented and how it might be an improvement is far more interesting than just asking, “If no one wants it then why are they doing it?”

 

The problem is that most critics are NOT questioning. They’ve already decided for themselves that it is a bad idea. 
 

so yeah, question and imagine and discuss— but I can answer the question of “Are they going to do this?” definitively: 

 

Yes they are if they have time to do it. 

the only counter to have to that is, if it sounds like a bad idea, perhaps its because when put forward in the way they have done, its a bad idea. 😛 if someone tells you they are gona put there hand into a open fire, pretty sure thats a bad idea. XD but putting your hand in a open fire, the hand coverd in water and only brifely in the flames? eh. would still laugh if you caught fire but il watch you do it. 

 

devil is in the details. and we dont know much other then what they said. and to sum up: 

we wana eliminate all the clothing options and make a much more limited, lackluster 4 peice system tied to bonuses.

 

pretty sure most people think thats a bad plan. XD

[JCrook1028]

21 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

LBD, football helmet and sneakers.

Wrong LBD... just sayin'

[Darklegend222]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:33 PM, Roland said:

 

They haven't gotten to it yet so other than concept drawings very little time has been spent.

 

Maybe that is still "too much" though...?

 

Speaking of too much time spent....I think all this conjecture and worry about something that Madmole has only given general conceptual information about is what there is too much of. Most people heard that 8 clothing slots are being reduced to 4 and stopped listening at that point as their blood pressure overwhelmed them.  We really need to wait and see how it plays and since the feature won't be coming in A20 it may very well be a year out still-- if it ends up being implemented at all.

 

Worrying only makes you suffer twice.

I've got a couple questions about it, do you know if it will only be replacing clothing? I believe i read somewhere about it replacing armor as well? Could've been incorrect but just wanted to verify. (I don't mind it getting changed).

 

Second, will skills remain somewhat the same? So that miner 69er will still give more wood, stone, and metals? Only making the mining set worth it if you care THAT much about the bonuses? It would be sh***y if it was forced to get intense bonuses.

 

Finally, will there be different sets for different items? I'm curious to know if we will have a set for every weapon type. I understand it's all concept and that's okay if you can't answer the questions, just some concerns and curiosity about the direction of some stuff.

 

 

[playlessNamer]

 

 

 

The pics above is what i am talking about. Bonus between 20 and 50%, you cant ignore that. Sure it doesnt force me to use ingamefeatures at all, i can skip whatever i want, there is even a option to play without zombies.

Just dont make a best in slot gameplay like many other games have and dont make players all wear the same sets. Its a small gap between so balanced its not even worth to change cloth and forcing switch outfit all the time.

Thats a big game decision, in nearly every game with setboni, this boni are the meta.

[Roland]

10 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

I've got a couple questions about it, do you know if it will only be replacing clothing? I believe i read somewhere about it replacing armor as well? Could've been incorrect but just wanted to verify. (I don't mind it getting changed).

 

Second, will skills remain somewhat the same? So that miner 69er will still give more wood, stone, and metals? Only making the mining set worth it if you care THAT much about the bonuses? It would be sh***y if it was forced to get intense bonuses.

 

Finally, will there be different sets for different items? I'm curious to know if we will have a set for every weapon type. I understand it's all concept and that's okay if you can't answer the questions, just some concerns and curiosity about the direction of some stuff.

 

 

 

Armor and clothing are integrated into the outfit.

 

I don't know what rebalancing of skills might occur with the introduction of the outfit bonuses.

 

I don't know how many different outfits there will be. Playless showed some of the released concepts. None of those have been added to the game yet

[Boidster]

IMO some of the suggested bonuses shown above are of questionable use after a few in-game days of play even for a brand new player. Things that make me go

 

 

But we'll see how/if it actually shakes out.

[Fanatical_Meat]

21 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Wrong LBD... just sayin'

Nope

 

[JCrook1028]

35 minutes ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Nope

 

Roland brought up LBD (Learn By Doing) as an example of TFP not following user criticism. THAT is the LBD we are discussing. I know it also means what you're showing but as I said, wrong LBD to be in context of the discussion.

[Fanatical_Meat]

11 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Roland brought up LBD (Learn By Doing) as an example of TFP not following user criticism. THAT is the LBD we are discussing. I know it also means what you're showing but as I said, wrong LBD to be in context of the discussion.

 

Ah I see. Thank you for clarifying.

I’d still like to wear that a football helmet and running shoes for a horde night 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Fanatical_Meat (see edit history)

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, playlessNamer said:

 

 

 

The pics above is what i am talking about. Bonus between 20 and 50%, you cant ignore that. Sure it doesnt force me to use ingamefeatures at all, i can skip whatever i want, there is even a option to play without zombies.

Just dont make a best in slot gameplay like many other games have and dont make players all wear the same sets. Its a small gap between so balanced its not even worth to change cloth and forcing switch outfit all the time.

Thats a big game decision, in nearly every game with setboni, this boni are the meta.

 

Ok, I'll take back some of what I said yesterday, forgot all about these concepts.

If nothing changes (after all those are just first concepts), they definitely will determine what a lot of players will wear. Some of the set bonuses can be ignored (farmer, I look at you) but some are very good to must have (nerd set bonus for most INT players, 20% more damage with robotic weapons).

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

It’s going to take a minute of playtime to even find a full set of a particular outfit. For a good while we will be wearing mismatched parts getting a farming bonus from this piece, a mining bonus from that piece, and so forth.

[beerfly]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

It’s going to take a minute of playtime to even find a full set of a particular outfit. For a good while we will be wearing mismatched parts getting a farming bonus from this piece, a mining bonus from that piece, and so forth.

Will some of the outfits have legendary stats or bonuses ? Not for next alpha, just curious. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

It’s going to take a minute of playtime to even find a full set of a particular outfit. For a good while we will be wearing mismatched parts getting a farming bonus from this piece, a mining bonus from that piece, and so forth.

 

Those won´t be craftable? What?

 

I don´t get why TFP would think that uniforms are a good idea in game where MP is pretty popular. I was rather expecting the other way around with more variations available. Having different cosmetical outfits is more popular than ever in games. Unless ofc cosmetics will be available as a DLC....

 

Yeah i hear you saying "they make the game they want" bla bla, they are a company, they have people working for them, they need to make money. Sure there is their vision involved, but we are far beyond the point where they can just make the game they want. They are responsible for the people who work for them.

 

And if this isn´t targeted at min/maxers then please tell me wich solution would be better for people who like to min/max. This is exactly what you need if you like to min/max.

Edited June 29, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Those won´t be craftable? What?

 

I don't know yet. Most likely they will be craftable with some readjustments to the perks that allow armor crafting and the books that allow clothes crafting. Still....you aren't going to have six full outfits to feel annoyed changing between for awhile into the game.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

but we are far beyond the point where they can just make the game they want.

 

er....what?

[pApA^LeGBa]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

er....what?

 

They gotta make sure it sells. They can´t just say, fk the market and it´s demands, we do whatever we want even when nobody likes it. They have to make sure they can pay the people who work for them and they need income for their next project. So yeah, they can´t just make a game that nobody will buy, no matter how much they would like it to be that way.

Edited June 29, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

They gotta make sure it sells. They can´t just say, fk the market and it´s demands, we do whatever we want even when nobody likes it. They have to make sure they can pay the people who work for them and they need income for their next project. So yeah, they can´t just make a game that nobody will buy, no matter how much they would like it to be that way.

 

While that is true as a general principle, it really doesn't apply to this change in outfits. The only people who are upset by the idea of the outfit concept are those who are mentally comparing it with what they already know without even having played with it yet. By the way, all of THOSE people already bought the game and helped to fund their next project.

 

People who will buy the game in the future have no frame of reference for whether what they will purchase is better or worse than a version they never knew. All they will do is look at the current list of features and then decide to buy the game. I highly doubt that people who are interested in a zombie horde survival crafting and building game are going to look at outfits and put their wallet away.

 

The key here is that objectively looking at the outfits, they appear to be a fun and rewarding mechanic. Will they be more or less fun than what we have now? THAT is the question old timers worry about. But as far as the selling power of the game to new blood-- the question doesn't even register. Will the outfit mechanic be enjoyable enough for those coming to the game to slaughter zombies and survive the world? I'd say yes.

7 hours ago, beerfly said:

Will some of the outfits have legendary stats or bonuses ? Not for next alpha, just curious. 

 

No idea yet. I still haven't seen a legendary stat or bonus for a single weapon and they've been talking about that for years....

[beerfly]

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

No idea yet. I still haven't seen a legendary stat or bonus for a single weapon and they've been talking about that for years....

It is understandable, they do a lot of content creation now that needs a proper balance to be able to have such things.

 

Thanks for the answer, fingers crossed

[pApA^LeGBa]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

The key here is that objectively looking at the outfits, they appear to be a fun and rewarding mechanic. Will they be more or less fun than what we have now? THAT is the question old timers worry about. But as far as the selling power of the game to new blood-- the question doesn't even register. Will the outfit mechanic be enjoyable enough for those coming to the game to slaughter zombies and survive the world? I'd say yes.

 

No idea yet. I still haven't seen a legendary stat or bonus for a single weapon and they've been talking about that for years....

 

Everyone looking the same is fun? Did you play any other games in the past few years? Doesn´t seem like it.

 

It´s not about that i am used to the old ones and hence don´t like the change. I always assumed that changing the limited cosmetic options regarding outfits is something at the very end of the to do list.

 

What i really do not like is that i am limited to a certain type of armor (light, heavy). I don´t like heavy armor. Avoiding it will mean giving up advantages now. That´s no fun. Not at all. There will always be that voice telling you that you could be more effective and save time wearing heavy armor that gives you advantages. No matter if you min/max or not.

 

Taking away choices from the player is never a good idea.

Edited June 29, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[IndustryStandard]

So I posted this originally as a genuine question about how TFP were envisioning this system working out and when the answers I got seem defaulted to trying to defend the upcoming outfit system from someone not attacking it so I bailed on getting any sensible answers and left for a week. I still don't have an answer to my question on how they pictured this system working and can only assume they have never expressed what they thought players would do with it. If they thought they would swap outfits, mix it up or stick to one etc. So at that point the thread should have just died.

So for clarification since I see the same people being eerily close to hypocrites all over this thread right now and this is my thread. And I already know this is being skimmed over for keywords for someone to reply to anyway because reading, thinking and replying sensibly is difficult.

Just because I or anyone else do not like the concept or idea of these potentially upcoming outfit systems that could be wildly unbalanced or perfect in every way does not mean I shouldn't and cannot express it. My concerns did not boil into some heated anger because I saw the number 8 go down to 4 and after that all I saw was red. The only people who seem to have already come here with a predetermined opinion on the matter are the ones accusing people concerned about the outfit system as doing the same thing, saying that I can't not like it because it doesn't exist but they can defend what doesn't exist and just dismissing genuine worries as minmaxing crybabies that are just making a fuss because they don't like things changing or less options. If you cannot get past this simple idea then take your crappy attitude somewhere else.

The outfit system doesn't exist, it's concept that we have had concept art for and random numbers thrown at as an idea and isn't necessarily representative of the final product, I get that, I understand this. I know it could or could not happen. 

But  I don't like the idea of it though and I don't want to wait for the system to come out and find out that it's everything we worried about and won't be touched again for over a year until the next alpha hits, assuming they even view it as a problem. (hello gamestage loot system) OR it can come out and its perfectly fine except find that it really doesn't add anything to the gameplay. I'm still going to be playing 7 Days to Die the same as before and some uninspired % changes to my yields and speeds won't really make a difference to it, at worse I will be pressured and rewarded decently for minmaxing while being told "You DoNt hAVe To mInmAX" or at best the bonuses won't be big enough to bother changing my outfits beyond dealing with the temperature (same as now).

So why even bother changing everything anyway if at worst it could be a horrible system that were stuck with for 2 years or at best it not really impacting how we play anyway? Am I the only person seeing this as just a waste of time and resources no matter how it turns out? Yes Madmole, these outfits look cool and your beard is cool and I would enjoy wearing some of them but can we please for the love of @%$#ing god see a light at the end of this long tunnel now? Can we get that Alpha that seems to finally be shaping all the games mechanics and content into a lovely bow instead of remaking another aspect again? I genuinely have no idea what this game wants to be anymore, I have no idea what I helped fund and invested nearly 600 hours into. Yet no matter how calmly or polite I act I could still be met with a perceived passive aggressiveness from the more active portion of the community for even expressing negativity. 

And if the response to suggestions, concerns and criticisms of existing systems really boils down to TFP regardless of community feedback will do whatever they want anyway then why the hell are we even commenting here at all or bothering to give them any feedback to begin with?

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by IndustryStandard (see edit history)

[hiemfire]

7 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

So why even bother changing everything anyway if at worst it could be a horrible system that were stuck with for 2 years or at best it not really impacting how we play anyway?

They're changing it because they've decided to use it as part of the outfitting framework for the bandits they're developing and the current system is expected to cause issues. So they decided to hit it with the "keep it simple and small" hammer and use their own system instead of the original one that they acquired, licensed or open source I'm not sure, from another group.

Edited June 29, 2021 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[IndustryStandard]

5 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

They're changing it because they've decided to use it as part of the outfitting framework for the bandits they're developing and the current system is expected to cause issues. So they decided to hit it with the "keep it simple and small" hammer and use their own system instead of the original one that they acquired, licensed or open source I'm not sure, from another group.

So more under the hood changes. Doesn't explain the other half of the Outfit/class system concept though. 

[hiemfire]

Just now, IndustryStandard said:

So more under the hood changes. Doesn't explain the other half of the Outfit/class system concept though. 

I don't really have anything more than supposition there, which I don't think you're interested in.

[IndustryStandard]

6 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

I don't really have anything more than supposition there, which I don't think you're interested in.

Nope I'm plenty interested. Of course I'd rather more official things but I'm open to ideas.

Edited June 29, 2021 by IndustryStandard (see edit history)