Almost 1 year since the last "major" update

[Maharin]

The good news is that by the time 7DTD goes gold we will have solved global warming.  Or we'll be living 7DTD.  Either way, win!

[Roland]

The development itself is its own survival experience. WIll you still be here in the end? Many who began this journey have given up. What day will you continue to play to...?

[Sal]

I agree with some parts of your sentiment here.  The game does become repetitive at later stages and adding in new things like bandits, etc would make the game harder. 

 

However, even if they added bandits and whatnot to the final product, eventually you would end up in the very spot that you are in now.  A game that becomes very repetitive over time because at that point you would've already adapted to the changes and learned how to work around them.  And then you will continue to ask for more which ultimately leads to a never ending scenario that YOU in particular are happy not with.

 

This is what I love about mods.  I play the vanilla game with no mods at different settings, vanilla with very few mods, or an entire overhaul mod.  And mods for this game won't ever stop and will only continue to get better.

 

Do you think people would still be playing Skyrim if it was still vanilla?

 

On 4/13/2021 at 4:06 AM, Hyperbolt said:

 If you ask the pimps, they will respond "its done when its done" and that about as accurate answer you will get regarding the time to the next alpha! 

 

I actually like this approach.  I think they do this because it creates less pressure on them AND we get a better product in the end whenever they do release an update. What I mean is, if they set an EXACT release date then all of us are going to be expecting it, and then they're being forced to put out an unfinished product (which is what we see with major distributors like EA) .  

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want that either.  I would rather see them take as much time as they need to get right, based on the vision and direction they intend to go, and end up with a balanced masterpiece in the end as opposed to a broken mess.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Sal (see edit history)

[Ornias]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:59 AM, Roland said:

The development itself is its own survival experience. WIll you still be here in the end? Many who began this journey have given up. What day will you continue to play to...?

 

Each alpha is a survival experience for sure. Went from 100+ day play throughs on A16 to taking A17 off (you know 17 was atrocious). 18 was ok and 19 is getting better. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Ornias (see edit history)

[Roland]

Everyone says A17 was atrocious but I really enjoyed the stuffed full POIs and new zombie AI was lots of fun outside of horde nights.

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

Everyone says A17 was atrocious but I really enjoyed the stuffed full POIs and new zombie AI was lots of fun outside of horde nights.

I agree with Roland!   The first time I cracked open a POI and had a bus load of zombies pile out it was ... well just great.

[Maharin]

On that note, we need zombie clown cars.  No, really, we do.

[Urban Blackbear]

Zombie clowns, the only thing that truly terrifies me.

[Maharin]

Zombie mime clowns that moon walk everywhere they go.

[Yark]

There's no pressure for them to work hard on quality update, because this community is full of apologists. I suspect some may even be on the payroll, if you pay close attention to the reactions to many posts. 

 

I had not played in months, and the first thing I noticed upon logging in is that there is still no attack animation for the spear - a little jarring when you're playing with a friend. It's not that this is a game-breaking issue, but it's just inexcusable that this is somehow a lower priority than updating the Hawaiian zombie model. Additionally, the quests you receive from traders are still labeled with locations such as house_old_03, or store_02. 

 

Really, how lazy is this team?

 

Oh and before I forget, the reason I made an account was to report two bugs I had found. One was that the Physician perk did not actually allow you to heal allies as it claimed, and the other was something to do with the stun baton perk. Not only have those threads been deleted or hidden, but the Physician perk no longer even claims to allow players to heal allies. What, was that too complicated for this development team? 

[Roland]

42 minutes ago, Yark said:

I had not played in months, and the first thing I noticed upon logging in is that there is still no attack animation for the spear - a little jarring when you're playing with a friend. It's not that this is a game-breaking issue, but it's just inexcusable that this is somehow a lower priority than updating the Hawaiian zombie model. Additionally, the quests you receive from traders are still labeled with locations such as house_old_03, or store_02.

 

They've begun working on player/bandit animations with A20 so it is not surprising that you still aren't seeing improvements in that area coming back months later to play some more A19. Localization is also an ongoing project. I'm not apologizing for them here-- just giving some information regarding these issues you've raised. Of course, some like yourself will see it as an inexcusable travesty of game development and sure sign of lazy developers that issues you care about aren't of higher priority to the developers but that is also something I can't apologize for.

 

46 minutes ago, Yark said:

Oh and before I forget, the reason I made an account was to report two bugs I had found. One was that the Physician perk did not actually allow you to heal allies as it claimed, and the other was something to do with the stun baton perk. Not only have those threads been deleted or hidden, but the Physician perk no longer even claims to allow players to heal allies. What, was that too complicated for this development team? 

 

The bug report subforum has been closed and there is a new bug pool reporting area that you can reach by clicking on the green banner. It is very likely your report was either moved there. Hard to say since the only time line you gave was "months ago".  I'm not sure what the plan is with the Physician perk. It could be the claim was removed temporarily until they can get to it or maybe it was changed. You'd have to give a bit more concrete details about the stun baton perk.

[Yark]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

Hard to say since the only time line you gave was "months ago". 

 

You're conflating two different things. I said this is the first time I had played "in months," but that the reason I created this forum account was to report two bugs. Looks like I joined March of 2020, so those threads would have been posted at that time.

 

Also, I said that not fixing a simple aesthetic flaw like quest location names was inexcusable, but I never said it was a travesty. If you find yourself needing to use hyperbole to get your point across, you may need to slow down and think about what you're really trying to say.

[Roland]

Pot and kettle dude. pot and kettle. I answered you at the same exact level that you began. Don't dish out medicine you can't swallow yourself.

 

March of 2020 sounds about right. I don't think your posts were deleted. They were swept into the new format. Sorry for the confusion. As for the rest, you'll either be patient with the dev's order of priority or not. Probably best to just play other stuff until the game is pronounced done if you are going to feel that certain things are inexcusable when you play the game.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[GreasyMullet]

100% Fine waiting and appreciate the developers communication.  Without showing signs of life I might be concerned about the game but they are clearly working hard on it so as long as it takes is fine.  Of course I would love to know what they are targeting but as soon as they say it publicly people try hold them to those dates which is not fair.  So when its done its done is fine with me.  This team has earned our trust.

[MB83]

On 4/16/2021 at 4:53 PM, Urban Blackbear said:

Zombie clowns, the only thing that truly terrifies me.

 

I never go into the churches in this game (especially church basements) since the atmosphere freaks me out. Devs did a good job. If they added a circus with zombie clowns I‘d definitely avoid that too. Still cool idea though!

[Yark]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Pot and kettle dude. pot and kettle. I answered you at the same exact level that you began. Don't dish out medicine you can't swallow yourself.

 

I don't think you know what this means. Don't misquote me or hyperbolize what I've said to bolster your position. 

 

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months. More accurately I haven't participated in a playthrough of any significant duration since I joined this community over a year ago. It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model, when minor bugs and aesthetic flaws persist for so long. No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions. 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Yark said:

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months.

Yes, but don't misquote yourself. You said you hadn't played in months and then logged in and noticed.....

 

My advice to you wasn't based on the months of not playing part of your statement. My advice was based on the you logging in again before the game is done part of your statement. That advice still stands: If there are in your estimation inexcusable omissions in the game such that you leap to the conclusion that the devs are lazy and that assumption leads to you feeling upset in any degree and ruins your appreciation for the game then refrain from logging in until you get the notification that it is out of early access. On the other hand, if you are interested in providing bug reports in a nonaggressive manner and without loaded assumptions mixed in as to the capabilities and work ethic of the developers then by all means log in, play, and report.

 

1 hour ago, Yark said:

It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model

 

It's not absurd when the announcement of the work completed is from the art team. What is absurd is thinking that the entire TFP team is only working on HD zombie models. There are some working on those, others doing optimizations, others working on fixing bugs, and others working on new features and improvements of existing features. It is true that nobody has as of this writing worked on changing "house_old_3" to "Cooter's place" in the localization files. But somebody will when the time is right. And even though you can't see a picture of optimizations and bug fixes like you can of a new HD zombie model, those things are being worked on by the appropriate members of the team. In the meantime, it is nice to get updates of whatever is being worked on by whoever and since the game is still in development those who don't find the process inexcusable understand that sometimes they might have to read something like "house_old_3" until a member of the staff gets to that job.

 

1 hour ago, Yark said:

No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions.

 

No matter how much I may love the game, you are justified in your criticism of these decisions. Agreed. Thanks for your comments. You're welcome for mine. Public forum.

 

Look, I get that you don't like the favorable, forgiving, patient, and hopeful vibe of this forum. But you have to understand that this is the developer's forum and those who are here long term are fans and generally believe that the developers are competent and hard working. So when criticism is given it is best given with a respectful attitude-- this being their house and their party and all. Criticism is welcome, for sure, and even those of us who post here often have differing expectations and views than the developers. So we voice our dissension and give our suggestions for what we would like but simply leave insults like "lazy devs" and "too complicated for them" out of the post. 

 

If you want to call the devs lazy and then have twenty comments backing you up and piling on about what scumbags they must be living off all that money for years and inching along just to milk everyone for more...you can get that catharsis on reddit or discord or facebook. There are plenty of avenues for toxic conversation and insults vs the developers on message boards out there if that is what you are looking for (and viewing your post history it seems to be what you're looking for). Here, you get called on that behavior. I never discounted your actual criticism or denied that there are unfinished localization issues and that the healing perk is not working like it used to. I affirm those observations. I also agree that the development time has grown long in the tooth and the good news is that the development team feels it too. They are excited by two future projects and so are working hard to finish this one off-- hopefully to most everyone's satisfaction.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[7daysexpert]

On 4/19/2021 at 1:01 PM, Yark said:

 

I don't think you know what this means. Don't misquote me or hyperbolize what I've said to bolster your position. 

 

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months. More accurately I haven't participated in a playthrough of any significant duration since I joined this community over a year ago. It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model, when minor bugs and aesthetic flaws persist for so long. No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions. 

would you rather have a good quality update that takes a year or a meh update that takes 6 months unless you understand programming and coding  you really dont know what your talking about it is alot harder than you realize

[Skuriles]

I love 7DTD, it is beside CIV games and some MMOs the only game I have several 100s of hours played. 
BUT, I remember the discussion around A15/A16 when it took nearly 1,5 years for a new alpha, and from TFP it was stated, that it takes so long, because they implement a system which allows them to work on the project faster for future alphas. What happened: Every new alpha took as long as the old ones (between 6-15 months). 
I can live with that, but don't understand what system was implemented to speed up the development to end up with slower release cycles :-).

But as I'm a developer myself I understand that, and the fact that TFP is working on another project, while 7DTD has still real good sales counts (so money should not be the problem) it will probably take another 2 years to get it gold (or never will be out of EA, who knows). 

 

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Skuriles said:

I love 7DTD, it is beside CIV games and some MMOs the only game I have several 100s of hours played. 
BUT, I remember the discussion around A15/A16 when it took nearly 1,5 years for a new alpha, and from TFP it was stated, that it takes so long, because they implement a system which allows them to work on the project faster for future alphas. What happened: Every new alpha took as long as the old ones (between 6-15 months). 
I can live with that, but don't understand what system was implemented to speed up the development to end up with slower release cycles :-).

But as I'm a developer myself I understand that, and the fact that TFP is working on another project, while 7DTD has still real good sales counts (so money should not be the problem) it will probably take another 2 years to get it gold (or never will be out of EA, who knows). 

 

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

I would suspect good intentions clashed with reality. If you are a developer yourself you probably already know the only safe way to get faster updates while developing lots of big and small features: Use a revision control system and put every new feature in its own branch.

 

Now in theory that is all you need. In practice things are not so easy. Features sometimes depend on other lower-level features.  And some devs just can't adapt and always forget to make new branches for new features. And invariably the biggest features are also the ones everyone wants to be in the new alpha.

 

Everything just guessing by the way, I don't have any more knowledge about internal stuff than you.

 

[Matt115]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:19 PM, Roland said:

Yes, but don't misquote yourself. You said you hadn't played in months and then logged in and noticed.....

 

My advice to you wasn't based on the months of not playing part of your statement. My advice was based on the you logging in again before the game is done part of your statement. That advice still stands: If there are in your estimation inexcusable omissions in the game such that you leap to the conclusion that the devs are lazy and that assumption leads to you feeling upset in any degree and ruins your appreciation for the game then refrain from logging in until you get the notification that it is out of early access. On the other hand, if you are interested in providing bug reports in a nonaggressive manner and without loaded assumptions mixed in as to the capabilities and work ethic of the developers then by all means log in, play, and report.

 

 

It's not absurd when the announcement of the work completed is from the art team. What is absurd is thinking that the entire TFP team is only working on HD zombie models. There are some working on those, others doing optimizations, others working on fixing bugs, and others working on new features and improvements of existing features. It is true that nobody has as of this writing worked on changing "house_old_3" to "Cooter's place" in the localization files. But somebody will when the time is right. And even though you can't see a picture of optimizations and bug fixes like you can of a new HD zombie model, those things are being worked on by the appropriate members of the team. In the meantime, it is nice to get updates of whatever is being worked on by whoever and since the game is still in development those who don't find the process inexcusable understand that sometimes they might have to read something like "house_old_3" until a member of the staff gets to that job.

 

 

No matter how much I may love the game, you are justified in your criticism of these decisions. Agreed. Thanks for your comments. You're welcome for mine. Public forum.

 

Look, I get that you don't like the favorable, forgiving, patient, and hopeful vibe of this forum. But you have to understand that this is the developer's forum and those who are here long term are fans and generally believe that the developers are competent and hard working. So when criticism is given it is best given with a respectful attitude-- this being their house and their party and all. Criticism is welcome, for sure, and even those of us who post here often have differing expectations and views than the developers. So we voice our dissension and give our suggestions for what we would like but simply leave insults like "lazy devs" and "too complicated for them" out of the post. 

 

If you want to call the devs lazy and then have twenty comments backing you up and piling on about what scumbags they must be living off all that money for years and inching along just to milk everyone for more...you can get that catharsis on reddit or discord or facebook. There are plenty of avenues for toxic conversation and insults vs the developers on message boards out there if that is what you are looking for (and viewing your post history it seems to be what you're looking for). Here, you get called on that behavior. I never discounted your actual criticism or denied that there are unfinished localization issues and that the healing perk is not working like it used to. I affirm those observations. I also agree that the development time has grown long in the tooth and the good news is that the development team feels it too. They are excited by two future projects and so are working hard to finish this one off-- hopefully to most everyone's satisfaction.

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

 

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Roland]

10 hours ago, Skuriles said:

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

 

Smart! There is so much to enjoy out there that there is plenty to keep us occupied between updates. It's a much happier and fulfilling attitude than just burning out on A19 and getting angry about it.

[Roland]

37 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

 

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

 

The next projects are just in the planning and concept phase-- getting the roadmap organized and doing art. There isn't a single programmer being pulled from 7 Days to Die to work on any next project. But I suspect that as we get closer that might start happening to some degree. Think about it: If TFP does nothing at all to begin the process of their next game until after they are completely done with 7 Days to Die then the gap between the release of 7 Days and the release of their next game will be too long. They are planning and organizing themselves well to be able to have another game out on Early Access as quickly as they can. They don't want a year and a half gap between games.

 

As for the size of their studio, don't worry about it. They hire people as needed. They have the funds to hire and manage enough people to do what needs to be done. From what I've seen of the next projects, any negative PR that might be generated by those who are outraged that TFP would dare to start thinking about their next game before this one is done will be swallowed up in the massive hype once the announcement with details for these next games is released. These will be shutup-and-take-my-money titles.

 

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

 

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

 

You listed some game companies who (to the public) only work on one title at a time. Are you really sure CD Project wasn't doing some cyberproject while finishing the witcher? Did the whole development team of CD Project work exclusively on the witcher card game?

 

I give you two companies who do it very much like TFP and pipeline their development: InXile and Obsidian.

 

Pipelining means that the game designers already work on a new project when their tasks on the older project are practically finished. In the next phase graphics artists for example change over when everything has been drawn that will be used in the older project. Meanwhile programmers and some other people like level designers still finish up the older project and mainly fix bugs or polish balance.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 

The next projects are just in the planning and concept phase-- getting the roadmap organized and doing art. There isn't a single programmer being pulled from 7 Days to Die to work on any next project. But I suspect that as we get closer that might start happening to some degree. Think about it: If TFP does nothing at all to begin the process of their next game until after they are completely done with 7 Days to Die then the gap between the release of 7 Days and the release of their next game will be too long. They are planning and organizing themselves well to be able to have another game out on Early Access as quickly as they can. They don't want a year and a half gap between games.

 

As for the size of their studio, don't worry about it. They hire people as needed. They have the funds to hire and manage enough people to do what needs to be done. From what I've seen of the next projects, any negative PR that might be generated by those who are outraged that TFP would dare to start thinking about their next game before this one is done will be swallowed up in the massive hype once the announcement with details for these next games is released. These will be shutup-and-take-my-money titles.

 

That's okay , well if it a only concept phase they are "safe" . Well some studios tried make 2-3 games in this same time so it doesn't ended good 😕 Well big gap sometimes is nothing wrong if they older games are still bringing profits. Well making a 7dtd "realistic" alternative for minecraft could be good option ( i mean minecraft gets still new big upgrades )

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

You listed some game companies who (to the public) only work on one title at a time. Are you really sure CD Project wasn't doing some cyberproject while finishing the witcher? Did the whole development team of CD Project work exclusively on the witcher card game?

 

I give you two companies who do it very much like TFP and pipeline their development: InXile and Obsidian.

 

Pipelining means that the game designers already work on a new project when their tasks on the older project are practically finished. In the next phase graphics artists for example change over when everything has been drawn that will be used in the older project. Meanwhile programmers and some other people like level designers still finish up the older project and mainly fix bugs or polish balance.

 

 

Yeah but Cd Projekt is pretty big and well have a lot of money right? Witcher 1 was made when they were Cd projekt red { red was part of cd projekt group and they have " monopoly" for distribiushing games ( long story well in Poland we were creating @%$#ty games most of them ended in small shops between cola and newspapers XD  ).

I understand your point. Ofc doing only "concept " is good and logical way . But making ( i mean programing , making models which can;t be use on both etc) is risky . I used to read a lot of gamers newspaper and sometimes was situation like : studio made a good game. They were trying to make 2- 3 ambitious games in next 2-3 years. And something go wrong and they became became bankrupt . Obsidian was bought by microsoft btw  but i have hope. And rly i don't "complain" like most i'm trying to say something constructive like : i know it is hard to make a good working npc so i "suggest" to make them in MMO -style in trades outpost . I know it is hard to make a good looking model of zombie and i know "clarity" in gameplay but make them in L4D2 or nza style could be good idea right because rng will and them more diffrent look . I know people can  be rly toxic so i'm trying to say what can be useful. Ofc i know i can be wrong but i'm trying to be construktive, not be guy who just complain ( btw sorry for grama mistakes a have some problems and i don't see mistake when i'm  writing  😅)

Edited April 21, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)