Do you hate crafting?

[aptalley]

I haven't really seen any evidence of "commercial failure" from a heavily crafting based game not allowing the best stuff to be craft able. Granted I havent played all games out there, but I cannot think of one good example where a successful crafting system was not ending with gear on par with scavenged.

 

This game became what it is off of years of crafted gear being as good as looted, I don't see where this sudden thought that it is commercially unsuitable has come from.

 

Feels like some newer staff member at TFP has some sort of influence, and everyone is drinking the cool aid all of a sudden.

[Sydious]

What’s wrong with being pleased that people who want to play the game differently can do so via mods? This game was created with modding in mind.

 

I’m not sure what about this opinion is bad or why you think the devs don’t share it when they’re the ones who have ensured that modding will always be a significant part of their community and their game’s longevity.

 

I’m not even sure there is a majority that is so hellbent on being able to craft t6 stuff that TFP will suffer commercial failure over it.

 

In any event it is already decided for A18 at least and so we will see if this ends up being one of those things they walk back for A19 or if they stick to it despite the complaints.

 

Then we’ll see if it means commercial failure or simply a boost for certain modders.

 

Hopefully, if it commercially fails it will do so on par with Diablo...

 

Roland the Modding thing is a mute point. Anyone can just say Mod it how you like it no matter what side of the coin they are on... it's irrelevant. The point is this is a discussion on the core game itself and should be just that.

A good game will support modding but nobody really feels the NEED to do it.

[Roland]

Roland the Modding thing is a mute point. Anyone can just say Mod it how you like it no matter what side of the coin they are on... it's irrelevant. The point is this is a discussion on the core game itself and should be just that.

A good game will support modding but nobody really feels the NEED to do it.

 

I agree. I didn’t bring modding into the conversation. I just responded to the guy who did bring it into the conversation. He wanted me to view the fact that the top two overhaul mods allow tier 6 crafting as proof that TFP should follow suit and that they made a mistake in their design. Like some others around here he probably thinks of mods as fixes to design mistakes in the game or picking up the slack. I don’t agree. I see modding as an alternative gameplay experience that is just as valid as the original vision of the developers and that the developers should create the vanilla game according to their own vision and that people can go and play those overhaul mods and get what they like as well. As I said win-win.

 

Objectively there is nothing wrong in my mind with either design. They are both interesting and I’m pleased that there will be some well supported mods available to try out the opposite direction that TFP is taking. There is always going to be at least one person who feels that a mod NEEDS to be made. This is how they get made and doesn’t necessarily indicate if a game is good or bad.

[camelCase]

Roland the Modding thing is a mute point. Anyone can just say Mod it how you like it no matter what side of the coin they are on... it's irrelevant. The point is this is a discussion on the core game itself and should be just that.

A good game will support modding but nobody really feels the NEED to do it.

It's also very rare for a mod to do exactly what you want. It's normally more the case of finding a cool mod and using it, rather than finding one completely fit for your purpose. Mods tend to unbalance the game and be unstable with updates. They should enhance the game, not fix it.

 

I mean, this thread is picking up quite a bit of traction. If you're here and don't think there's a genuine issue then I would question your judgement or motive.

[Roland]

I haven't really seen any evidence of "commercial failure" from a heavily crafting based game not allowing the best stuff to be craft able. Granted I havent played all games out there, but I cannot think of one good example where a successful crafting system was not ending with gear on par with scavenged.

 

This game became what it is off of years of crafted gear being as good as looted, I don't see where this sudden thought that it is commercially unsuitable has come from.

 

Feels like some newer staff member at TFP has some sort of influence, and everyone is drinking the cool aid all of a sudden.

 

Rick Huenink was there when the rudimentary idea for this game was scribbled on a napkin while he and his brother Joel were sharing some pie. True story.

 

Your feelings betray you Padawan.

[camelCase]

I haven't really seen any evidence of "commercial failure" from a heavily crafting based game not allowing the best stuff to be craft able.

Gosh, I'm not that melodramatic!! I'm more referring to a games company operating early access in the manner in which the person I replied to used as example.

 

Doing early access properly does wonders for reputation, and for argument's sake I think TFPs have done a great job so far but I see the last update as a miss-step for sure. Whether it's a communication error as Roland has claimed is yet to be seen. If there's an official source, I'd love to read it.

[crazywildfire]

But you are ok with being able to make precision, high tech mods for those pieces of equipment? Making mods so easily craftable has been worse for the looting game longevity than taking away tier 6 craftable base gear will ever be.

 

On that point as well, having a piece of gear last forever once you get it was terrible for the looting game.

 

* T6 gear should be craftable to keep crafting relevant (T5 gear on max roll being better than T6 on a crap roll does not make T5 gear crafting relevant)

 

* Gear should degrade as it is repaired, requiring more looting and/or crafting. Especially since repair kits are ludicrously easy to make now.

 

* Mods should be commodities, and i feel the A17 system of a consumed schematic was a good balance.

 

* I do actually like the parts system. I think parts should be required to make guns and high end equipment. They should not just be craftable from iron or steel. Parts should be the common loot, with a complete gun/tool being very very rare.

 

* I do support extra special unique type stuff being dropped from big bad bosses (perhaps horde night bosses?) but farming it from quests or just loot boxes seems too easy/farmable.

 

* Randomized stats on gear is a good addition, it does inspire more looting, which does keep the game rolling and interesting.

 

Not everyone agrees with me clearly, but, this is where I see more people getting the most enjoyment.

 

I want to be clear, I LOVE LOOTING. Adventuring and scavenging is my favorite thing to do in this game, however, once i find those ready made T6 pieces just laid out there for me in a box, I feel like my game is over. theres little reason to keep looting, and those T5 pieces you crafted are going to all be trader trash shortly after.

 

Never said I was ok with making those. I also think some of the mods should be loot only and not craftable. Some of them make sense to craft but others not so much. Also as of now think it is to easy to loot T6 items to early in game. Didnt even make it to day 14 and already had found T6. This to me makes it unnecessary to even spend the materials or the points or time into crafting T5. It isn't like you need T6 items for end game. You can survive as long as you want with T4 and T5 items with the right points to give the bonus for extra % on damage and head shots and such. As of right now T5 and T6 items are just to easy to find. If this % of finding them gets nerfed then being able to craft T5 will fill more rewarding.

 

If it gets changed to craft T6 then so be it. Just my personal opinion that I don't think I should be able to and sure many don't. If they change will still have fun though but guess because I and others like it is now we have no sense and don't have fun playing though at least based on how you said it.

[Roland]

It's also very rare for a mod to do exactly what you want. It's normally more the case of finding a cool mod and using it, rather than finding one completely fit for your purpose. Mods tend to unbalance the game and be unstable with updates. They should enhance the game, not fix it.

 

I mean, this thread is picking up quite a bit of traction. If you're here and don't think there's a genuine issue then I would question your judgement or motive.

 

What response have I given that makes you think this isn’t a genuine issue? Because I’m not emotionally invested in this issue like some of you? I’m interested in this design change. I love seeing how the game changes and what happens. I’m sure there will be unintended consequences for what they do and I’m stoked to see what emerges. I read Wizard’s First Rule....

 

I think a loot only t6 design is good. If things don’t pan out and both looting and crafting suffers from it and they revert it to the way it was I won’t be disappointed. Unlike some here I think both designs have merit and from reading comments I see about as much support for the change as I see against it.

 

So if things revert I hope some savvy modder feels the NEED to make t6 noncraftable again so we have play options going forward.

[quyxkh]

In reality, those players could ignore efficiency and then be free to play however they wanted and TFP wasn’t forcing them into one thing or another.

 

And in fact the gamestage mechanic means (a) you don't suffer for the "inefficiency", if there's a less "efficient" playstyle you enjoy more, ho hey, hey ho! You get more time to enjoy it, and (b) unless you're working at smurfing as assiduously as the power-levelers work at leveling, the game's not going to just let you sit on your ass, your game stage is going to creep up on you.

 

I wonder whether the limits shouldn't be set so that your gamestage cap is terrifying, it might take forever to get there if you play down near scavenger and work real hard at never getting past level 10 or something until you've looted everything, but the thing I've noticed is, a lot of the streamers and youtubers are constantly at their gamestage cap.

 

Haha, I can just see it: sacrificing a team member to the zeds to protect the tribe.

 

God, if that hit YouTube can you _imagine_ the reaction?

 

Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

[guardianangelmp]

What response have I given that makes you think this isn’t a genuine issue? Because I’m not emotionally invested in this issue like some of you? I’m interested in this design change. I love seeing how the game changes and what happens. I’m sure there will be unintended consequences for what they do and I’m stoked to see what emerges. I read Wizard’s First Rule....

 

I think a loot only t6 design is good. If things don’t pan out and both looting and crafting suffers from it and they revert it to the way it was I won’t be disappointed. Unlike some here I think both designs have merit and from reading comments I see about as much support for the change as I see against it.

 

So if things revert I hope some savvy modder feels the NEED to make t6 noncraftable again so we have play options going forward.

 

It doesn't seem like you think it's a genuine issue because all points that are brought up against what you support are shot down without a valid argument/reason. You also seem to be emotionally invested in the conversation on your opinion because a lot of your comments go out to make the people who have an opinion opposing to yours as unhinged individuals devoid of reason, as well as many comments sounding glib/tongue and cheek .

 

 

 

Not being able to craft t6 items is not the issue, it is one of the symptoms of the actual problem.

 

The problem is one area of the game is effectively useless at the moment. Right now, there is no way that crafting weapons/tools is a viable way to progress in the game....there just isn't. Regardless of having lucky looter or not (again, not the issue in this conversation, but just adds fuel to the fire) you will, a significant majority of the time, loot higher tier gear before you are able to craft it.

 

This, being able to get everything you need from looting, effectively negates any benefit to crafting. The same can be said of farming too. With as many barriers as there is to starting farming it is no longer necessary and more of a supplement for food supply than anything else. Canned food is readily available and looted frequently, free of food poisoning risk, and doesn't require any point investment to obtain. I'm getting a little off point (from gear/weapon/tool crafting) but the idea still applies. The need and usefulness of non-looting methods of obtaining items is slowly being eroded.

 

This is why, in my first comment, I compare the trajectory that 7dtd is on right now (incentivizing looting, disincentivising crafting) as to making a PvE fortenite game with zombies.

 

 

Also, this is an experimental build and a game in alpha and that is exactly the reason people should bring up their issues with changes right now. We don't know what TFP are planning and, no offence to the mods of the forums, I would be more satisfied with having an official TFP representative lay out the vision than hearing it from someone who heard something from someone else (but maybe I don't know, maybe the mods have a confirmed direct line to the devs and their vision).

 

And, often, the only way to have your concerns recognized is to get over the top because most of the time when you pose a logical, concise argument/feed back it is lost to the irrational chatter.

 

 

I don't need everything equal, I would be fine with having the highest tier items be loot only (as long as they are super rare and not just random drops from random places, can be random drops from specific difficult places), but I do need all aspects of the game to be viable and not overshadowed by other aspects of the game. The base game needs to have more choices for gameplay, not less.....we need more player agency, not less.

[M.C.]

I think a loot only t6 design is good. If things don’t pan out and both looting and crafting suffers from it and they revert it to the way it was I won’t be disappointed.

I think it's a really bad design. It means that the endgame -- specifically, the hunt for rare, powerful weapons and armor -- will be almost completely devoid of crafting. Getting a Q6 item in a slot means you never have to worry about crafting another item for that slot.

[Roland]

It doesn't seem like you think it's a genuine issue because all points that are brought up against what you support are shot down without a valid argument/reason.

 

Why are my arguments and reasons invalid? Can you quote me where I shot someone down without offering a valid counterpoint? In point of fact, my good angel, during the TFP meeting on this issue, I made the point that people would only be crafting the very few items they had perked into at the purple level-- that there wouldn't ever be a general crafting of everything purple and that it would in fact stay pretty limited thanks to the specialization designed into the game. I was actyually on the side of leaving purples craftable since they gave them back. But the decision went the other way and I can see the validity of those points as well. Just because I am here giving people the justifications that the development team voiced doesn't mean I am defending them 100%. But when the decision is final I also don't keep pestering them with

ranting. Voicing your opinion is good but gracefully accepting the final decision is also good.

 

You also seem to be emotionally invested in the conversation on your opinion because a lot of your comments go out to make the people who have an opinion opposing to yours as unhinged individuals devoid of reason, as well as many comments sounding glib/tongue and cheek .

 

I'm a glib person. It's my style. I've been that way my whole life and I didn't change myself for y'all. I like reference humor and I like poking at sacred cows. It means some people find me less than professional and they've told me so. But I figure....if you're ever going to do a job and inject unprofessional amounts of humor it probably should be a job involving zombies, on the internet, and for a company called "The Fun Pimps". I just couldn't let this opportunity get away from me. My future employers may never stand for it.

 

For the record I don't think that anyone is unhinged or devoid of reason. I have said multiple times humorlessly that I do see both sides and am personally okay with it going either way. But as long as people keep asking "WHY did TFP make this choice? HOW could they do this? and WHY did they take it away, give it back, and take it away again?" I'm going to keep giving the scoop from the TFP perspective.

 

 

 

Not being able to craft t6 items is not the issue, it is one of the symptoms of the actual problem.

 

The problem is one area of the game is effectively useless at the moment. Right now, there is no way that crafting weapons/tools is a viable way to progress in the game....there just isn't. Regardless of having lucky looter or not (again, not the issue in this conversation, but just adds fuel to the fire) you will, a significant majority of the time, loot higher tier gear before you are able to craft it.

 

This, being able to get everything you need from looting, effectively negates any benefit to crafting. The same can be said of farming too. With as many barriers as there is to starting farming it is no longer necessary and more of a supplement for food supply than anything else. Canned food is readily available and looted frequently, free of food poisoning risk, and doesn't require any point investment to obtain. I'm getting a little off point (from gear/weapon/tool crafting) but the idea still applies. The need and usefulness of non-looting methods of obtaining items is slowly being eroded.

 

This is why, in my first comment, I compare the trajectory that 7dtd is on right now (incentivizing looting, disincentivising crafting) as to making a PvE fortenite game with zombies.

 

You're right currently. They haven't nerfed the loot lists yet. But the time will come where your crafting will be ahead of the looting curve. The loot quality nerf and the trader quality nerf is coming. You can prepare now by throwing away/scrapping anything you find that is better than orange quality before around day 20 or so (Okay you can keep one thing and pretend you got lucky). I'm not exactly sure how much they will tune it.

 

Also, this is an experimental build and a game in alpha and that is exactly the reason people should bring up their issues with changes right now. We don't know what TFP are planning and, no offence to the mods of the forums, I would be more satisfied with having an official TFP representative lay out the vision than hearing it from someone who heard something from someone else (but maybe I don't know, maybe the mods have a confirmed direct line to the devs and their vision).

 

I do. I took part in the meeting where all this was discussed. I'm your eye witness reporter. I've blown the whistle on the Huenink Bros. in this very thread so if you read my posts carefully you will see that I have laid out exactly what they are planning and why the mechanic was removed, given, and removed again. No offense taken.

 

And, often, the only way to have your concerns recognized is to get over the top because most of the time when you pose a logical, concise argument/feed back it is lost to the irrational chatter.

 

This is patently untrue. Over the top gets you mocked by other forum members, completely takes the focus of the thread away from your issue and it all becomes about how you delivered your message, and if you then get nasty and insulting in your quest to be over the top it can get you banned after which you can go and leave an over the top negative review on steam where you can claim that Roland doesn't let anyone say anything negative on the official forums. Logical and concise arguments have swayed members of the TFP development team time and again. I often link logical and concise arguments that are posted with respect to the devs whether I agree with them or not personally but feel that good points were brought up and the devs should consider it. I never ever link the devs to someone whose goal is to be "over the top".

 

You definitely attract better attention with honey (but only partially heal from infection now).

 

 

I don't need everything equal, I would be fine with having the highest tier items be loot only (as long as they are super rare and not just random drops from random places, can be random drops from specific difficult places), but I do need all aspects of the game to be viable and not overshadowed by other aspects of the game. The base game needs to have more choices for gameplay, not less.....we need more player agency, not less.

 

100% agreement. If you would be fine with the above scenario for loot only t6 then you will be fine with TFP's implementation once they are done with it (hopefully next week). More or less player choices is tricky as I pointed out earlier in this thread. It is often only in the mind of the player that they have little to no choice when in fact they do. The proof is seeing other players playing the exact same game and making tons of choices even as Player A gripes that there are no choices. Same thing with base building. You'll get a new thread proclaiming building is dead and there is only one type of base that is viable right next to a mega thread of base building design ideas where tons of people represent tons of strategies. But you can't point that out to someone in the gaming forum internet culture most of the time.

[Roland]

I think it's a really bad design. It means that the endgame -- specifically, the hunt for rare, powerful weapons and armor -- will be almost completely devoid of crafting. Getting a Q6 item in a slot means you never have to worry about crafting another item for that slot.

 

How many Q6 items would you be able to craft? I'm wondering what the true impact on crafting would be. How many different weapons and tools and armor did you perk into the formerly 5th level which opened purple crafting?

 

My opinion to TFP last Thursday was that since they opened it up in b149 they should just leave it open since the impact would be very small. Nobody would be crafting a wide range of purple items-- only what they would've specifically perked into.

 

But if that is true then it also swings the other way. By changing it back, the impact on crafting as a whole is not really that great because we are only talking about a few items out of the 100s that you can still craft and that still contribute to seeing the game as a crafting game.

[wrathofdog]

Tier 6 gear being loot-only is... ok imo, but if I were designing the game, I'd go with craftable Tier 6 stuff + quality degradation on repair (random, and with a perk to make it less frequent), and ultra-rare legendaries that can only be looted. I'd also bring back the ability to merge items at a workbench to build a higher quality item, because I loved that.

[Roland]

Tier 6 gear being loot-only is... ok imo, but if I were designing the game, I'd go with craftable Tier 6 stuff + quality degradation on repair (random, and with a perk to make it less frequent), and ultra-rare legendaries that can only be looted. I'd also bring back the ability to merge items at a workbench to build a higher quality item, because I loved that.

 

Someone offered a concise and logical post that seemed to gain some traction when Madmole read it. The argument was that when repairing an item it wouldn't degrade to a lower quality, instead it would never refill its "uses left" bar to the top and slowly the bar would reduce until it finally could not be repaired for any durability. Madmole responded that he liked that idea but would want the trader to be able to fix it back up to full use for a fee. That was the only suggestion that he seemed to respond to in a positive way regarding degradation.

[M.C.]

How many Q6 items would you be able to craft? I'm wondering what the true impact on crafting would be.

That's easy to answer: 100% of the tools, armor pieces and weapons I am using for my build. Let's say I am not interested in crafting T1 gear because, well, it's T1. That still leaves me with two potential types of crafted gear (T2 and T3) per slot.

 

How many slots do I need to worry about? Let's see... 5 armor pieces, 4 tools (pick, axe, shovel, wrench), 2 power tools (augur and chainsaw), and my main weapon. That's 12 slots and 24 potential Q6 items I'd want to craft. I don't think you can call it negligible.

 

How many different weapons and tools and armor did you perk into the formerly 5th level which opened purple crafting?

Four perks. Main weapon, armor, tools, wrench.

 

My opinion to TFP last Thursday was that since they opened it up in b149 they should just leave it open since the impact would be very small. Nobody would be crafting a wide range of purple items-- only what they would've specifically perked into.

Like I said in the very beginning, every single player will be crafting Q6 of every single piece of gear they are using.

 

But if that is true then it also swings the other way. By changing it back, the impact on crafting as a whole is not really that great because we are only talking about a few items out of the 100s that you can still craft and that still contribute to seeing the game as a crafting game.

I suspect you are looking at it from a wrong angle. None of us give a rat's ass about whether we can "see the game as a crafting game". "Crafting game" is just a label. What's important is whether crafting remains part of the game from the start until the very end. Specifically, whether crafting remains part of the RPG aspect of 7D2D. In other words, whether crafting is useful for increasing the power level of our characters.

 

Before this change, it was definitely part of it because you could craft the best gear in the game.

 

After this change, it is no longer part of it because looting yields strictly more powerful gear.

[wrathofdog]

The argument was that when repairing an item it wouldn't degrade to a lower quality, instead it would never refill its "uses left" bar to the top and slowly the bar would reduce until it finally could not be repaired for any durability. Madmole responded that he liked that idea but would want the trader to be able to fix it back up to full use for a fee.

 

Without having read the original post, I'm not a fan of the idea, personally. Having to repair your pistol with ever-increasing frequency (with corresponding ever-increasing chance of it breaking when you need it most), and having to trek across the map to get it refurbished at a trader all sounds tedious. I'd end up with a junk box full of used-up stuff waiting for my next trip to the trader... . And I feel like it wouldn't do anything to solve the fundamental question, which is that, once you find a tier 6 pistol, you never care about any pistol you find ever again, ergo looting gets less exciting the longer you play.

 

The variable stats on items helps a lot. I think legendary items would be a cool addition, too. Degrading loot and being able to merge it to boost the quality level was my favorite innovation so far, though. I spent many nights in my cabin in A16 disassembling and reassembling guns; it felt very survivory.

[Kalen]

That's easy to answer: 100% of the tools, armor pieces and weapons I am using for my build. Let's say I am not interested in crafting T1 gear because, well, it's T1. That still leaves me with two potential types of crafted gear (T2 and T3) per slot.

 

 

In theory, yes.... in practice (at least in my experience) no. After 25 days, I've only found enough parts to craft 1 steel tool (about half way to a second) and 1 steel armor piece (just barely started on a second). At that rate, I'll probably never get to crafting a full set of armor, unless I start getting much luckier finding parts or stuff to scrap.

 

While I do wish we could still craft T6, because I like building toward it.... I also do think that Roland is correct in that in the end, the impact to not being able to is pretty limited.

[Synvastian]

Here what I think, and of course, pick it apart and fight about it if you guys wish, reading the vitriol tossed back and forth on here turns my stomach to be honest.

 

I support BOTH crafting and looting Q6, you need the perks to make Q6, and maybe Q6 only shows up in loot extremely rarely (looters can take days scouring a town and possibly find one, or spec up to what they want and make it)

 

I support random stats on items both crafted and not

 

I support Degradation of items if Q6 becomes craft-able, to balance out having "top tier" items (this would affect looters and crafters equally)

 

If Q7/Legendaries become a thing, I support them NOT being craft-able and only via looting(luck based)/shooting(bosses)/questing(T5 or maybe T6 if they want to add a new tier, I would also support quests not giving a guaranteed legendary but having it be chance based)

 

Parts for items should stay, that way we can break down weaker (lower Q) ones and assemble Q4-6's (or Q4-5s if not Q6s)

 

Lowering the chance for Q3+ I agree with, as long as Q1-2 gets a boost so we can gather parts

 

Ending note: I love the game as it is now. would I change some things? oh yeah. Would it make the game better? for me, maybe.

 

Stop picking fights guys, Roland has been polite(at least as polite as he can be being attacked for sharing info he got direct from the Game makers) he doesn't make the decisions, all he can do is hear what you have to say, and tell TFP what everyone thinks, and if every idea is just "you guys F***** up fix it now rah rah rah" he'll just tune you out and listen to other issues you may not care about...his points are just as valid as yours.

 

but what would I know?

[bjurney]

What is the point in having levels at all at this point if a level 5 item can have better stats then a level 6?

[M.C.]

In theory, yes.... in practice (at least in my experience) no. After 25 days, I've only found enough parts to craft 1 steel tool (about half way to a second) and 1 steel armor piece (just barely started on a second). At that rate, I'll probably never get to crafting a full set of armor, unless I start getting much luckier finding parts or stuff to scrap.

 

While I do wish we could still craft T6, because I like building toward it.... I also do think that Roland is correct in that in the end, the impact to not being able to is pretty limited.

 

Day 24. I've crafted 3 steel tools so far and have enough parts for two more. I have enough parts for two steel armor pieces (but still no schematics -- go figure). I have 2 full stacks of military armor parts, and I am not even using light armor. All of this at 100% loot and without any points in Lucky Looter. So... yeah. I think it's probably safe to say the impact will be substantial.

[tricorius]

They didn’t listen to some outside minority. They listened to the general feedback that looting was too good and crafting too pointless. The dev who made the changes thought it was supposed to include re-allowing t6 crafting. Two days later one of the owners asked why the t6 crafting was re-allowed and a discussion ensued between all the devs that lasted a day and a-half. The decision came down on the side of sticking to what they wanted to do with A18 in the first place. T1-5 craftable. T6 loot and quest rewards.

 

Changes they did and do intend to make to help crafting:

1) change specific weapon parts to general weapon’s group parts so that finding parts that work for what you want to craft is easier.

2) change crafted item stats to a random range so players have a chance to craft the best instead of guaranteed midrange.

3) lower percent chance of finding q3-5 items in loot boxes and trader stores so that most found gear is low level stuff good for parts for crafting and the player is more likely to craft a higher level item than has been found.

4) make t6 items ultra rare in loot and trader stores and as top level quest rewards.

5) Oh yeah....changed farming from tilling to crafting....

 

Looting is still strong because of parts and schematics and perk books that can be found as well as the chance for a really lucky find.

 

That is the plan and it should be fully implemented by stable or 18.1 for sure. Should be interesting to witness it all.

 

Ugh. I feel for that developer. And that now makes sense as to why the “emergency” patch come out to roll back T6 crafting.

 

I’m satisfied with this and hope that it was an honest mistake and he/she didn’t get scolded too badly (as a dev manager, these kinds of situatio’s suck for everyone).

 

My only major gripe was that it made crafting feel inferior. I also felt the loot tables were ramped up significantly in A18 which also contributed to the feeling.

 

Balancing loot so higher tiers drop less often is fine with me (though I predict several threads with the “looter nerf” firestorm when the loot nerf drops). If my crafted item doesn’t get immediately replaced with something better then I feel it was at least work the time, perk points, and materials to craft it.

[Scyris]

Honestly? I frigging HATE the new craft times on most things, they just take way to damned long for the most part. Making gun ammo is especially atrocious in terms of time needed. IMO 7.62 mm/magnum needs to have its gunpowder cost reduced by 1 (to 2 like shotgun shells) and also have a stack size simmlar to 9mm ammo. for the AP rounds make it take 3 gunpowder for 7.62mm/magnum. Its also very silly for the hollow point rounds to cost 2 bullet tips when hollow points typically have LESS lead as the bullet tip is hollow inside. Its already balanced imo in the fact its locked behind a book perk.

[Kalen]

Day 24. I've crafted 3 steel tools so far and have enough parts for two more. I have enough parts for two steel armor pieces (but still no schematics -- go figure). I have 2 full stacks of military armor parts, and I am not even using light armor. All of this at 100% loot and without any points in Lucky Looter. So... yeah. I think it's probably safe to say the impact will be substantial.

 

Well, then either you've been lucky or I've been unlucky. I guess time will tell.

[tricorius]

Someone offered a concise and logical post that seemed to gain some traction when Madmole read it. The argument was that when repairing an item it wouldn't degrade to a lower quality, instead it would never refill its "uses left" bar to the top and slowly the bar would reduce until it finally could not be repaired for any durability. Madmole responded that he liked that idea but would want the trader to be able to fix it back up to full use for a fee. That was the only suggestion that he seemed to respond to in a positive way regarding degradation.

 

I'd not mind this, I think it makes some sense. Though I'd hope crafting perks could give something here (maybe give a bit extra durability when you repair or the ability to repair it yourself without having to visit the trader--though I'm guessing that would be against the "get out of the house" mantra).

 

You're right currently. They haven't nerfed the loot lists yet. But the time will come where your crafting will be ahead of the looting curve. The loot quality nerf and the trader quality nerf is coming. You can prepare now by throwing away/scrapping anything you find that is better than orange quality before around day 20 or so (Okay you can keep one thing and pretend you got lucky). I'm not exactly sure how much they will tune it.

 

Hey Roland. I appreciate the info you have given. I'm sorry if anything I've said came off as personally insulting; that's never my intention.

 

I actually had a bug (which I haven't reported since I don't know if it was a fluke or not) where I had a save start killing me on login and not drop a backpack. SO...decided to start a new playthrough.

 

I'm trying a RWG 8k with an Int/Str build (stun baton / shotgun). I'm going to self impose the rules above to see how I like it (my initial assumption is that the balance will feel a lot better and crafting will feel better balanced). I can't simulate the trader stuff as well, but won't buy anything higher than Q2 before my day 21 horde (not like I have a lot of money to do so anyway).