Thoughts on Demolishers

[Dosu Kinuta]

Well, didn't know people like Serious Sam so much. The idea of demolisher is a bit weird for me, but hey, it's their game. If I don't want it then I can mod it out through xml.

[War3zuk]

It would Fit in with an Apocalypse as he could of been working on Demolition before being Bit which is why he cant arm his device but we the player can set it off

[RipClaw]

Perhaps...but I think it adds more depth/challenge/progression to base building. Since demos aren't supposed to show up until mid/late game, you can get away with simpler designs and then pushed to evolve or......die.

 

Normally, I build a new horde base. Rebuilding an existing base is usually more time consuming than simply building a new base.

In addition, I can continue to use the existing base even if it is no longer as effective.

[Xtrakicking]

It would Fit in with an Apocalypse as he could of been working on Demolition before being Bit which is why he cant arm his device but we the player can set it off

 

To me, he looks a bit strange. Who ties demolition vests around their body like that? The green/red light also makes it look a bit too over-the-top for me, even alien-like. I don't know.

 

I like the idea, but I'm not a fan of the design. I think a guy with a gas tank that explodes if hit, sorta like the exploding zombies in that ZombiU game, would fit better.

[Laz Man]

To me, he looks a bit strange. Who ties demolition vests around their body like that? The green/red light also makes it look a bit too over-the-top for me, even alien-like. I don't know.

 

I like the idea, but I'm not a fan of the design. I think a guy with a gas tank that explodes if hit, sorta like the exploding zombies in that ZombiU game, would fit better.

 

Maybe the demo guy rigged himself up just in case his position was over run and wanted a painless death instead of being eaten alive...😂

[War3zuk]

To me, he looks a bit strange. Who ties demolition vests around their body like that? The green/red light also makes it look a bit too over-the-top for me, even alien-like. I don't know.

 

I like the idea, but I'm not a fan of the design. I think a guy with a gas tank that explodes if hit, sorta like the exploding zombies in that ZombiU game, would fit better.

 

Haha Your NOT American , ANYTHING is possible with those people & I mean ANYTHING..... Bets hes also a Bible Basher

[artcrime2999]

 

 

 

Won't work. M60 has zero accuracy even when modded for accuracy. If there is any gun guarantee to set off their charge, it's that one. And the AK.

 

I've been playing on a well populated server and at the end of every horde night the mods spawn in about 30 demo men every minute or so for us to run from. We all fight in a trader protected fort but often times 3 or 4 players will completely murder the whole lot of demo men before any can go boom.

[Orclover]

Just had a horde night with Demo's last night with my pal and I. We loaded up every last gun and bit of ammo we had expecting the worse and we....lasted an hour and a half into horde night before the thirtieth-fiftieth demo man of the night blew us up.

 

Not a fan of the demo's at they are now. This is just stupid.

 

They should be threat 200-300 as they are now, not 100. We tried aiming all over them to not blow up the bombs on them, they blew up every single time. Not that it mattered since there were so many of them on the screen at once (really, 3-4 demos at once?) along with glowing cop zombies and all the other zeds running defense for them. AP ammo honestly made 0 difference in killing them since there was so much other stuff on the screen that we had to get through just to hit them that by the time we could even target them they were already within detonation distance. Death was inevitable at that point.

 

As it stands I see 0 reason to even bother with Horde night as it is, there is no challenge to it. We are simply burning several thousands rounds of ammo over and over and killing hundreds of zeds until one of them gets close enough to detonate within that magic distance and there is no way to survive the blast.

It's simply not fun. I'm sure for a lot of you its the time of your life and you are happily melee killing them with 0 effort, more power to you. But for us it was just laughably stupid. We weren't even mad, just rolling our eyes at the pointlessness of that many suicide super zeds showing up constantly.

 

Anyways yea we are a bunch of pansies. Sure, we accept that. But until this is patched we will just spend horde night on some giant POI and let them dig away at the walls until morning. I just don't see a way to kill that many of those guys at once with 2 people and we are using fully modded T5 M60's, burned through 2000 rounds of 7.62&ap in under ten minutes.

[Orclover]

Let's sort'em out.

 

I cant see that working on horde night with these guys showing up in groups. Also why did they not blow up? Do you have it turned off somehow? Everything we did set these guys off, everywhere we shot them had the timer going. One detonation and there goes all of that hard earned materials. Just so much damage. At least you have it so they will blow up 6 blocks away. Maybe we should make the outer structures out of wood and assume they are going to get blown up. Like inevitable.

[RipClaw]

I cant see that working on horde night with these guys showing up in groups. Also why did they not blow up? Do you have it turned off somehow? Everything we did set these guys off, everywhere we shot them had the timer going. One detonation and there goes all of that hard earned materials. Just so much damage. At least you have it so they will blow up 6 blocks away. Maybe we should make the outer structures out of wood and assume they are going to get blown up. Like inevitable.

 

The demolisher only explodes when you hit the green light on the chest. The blade trap only hits the head.

An M60 has a wide spread. If you aim in the direction of the demolisher it is very likely that you accidentally hit the green light.

 

I also ran some tests on the demolisher with dart traps. These don't seem to trigger the explosion no matter at what height or direction they fire at the demolisher. But they don't do much damage. You need at least 12 dart traps and 2 blade traps to kill a demolisher.

[Kattla]

I cant see that working on horde night with these guys showing up in groups. Also why did they not blow up? Do you have it turned off somehow? Everything we did set these guys off, everywhere we shot them had the timer going. One detonation and there goes all of that hard earned materials. Just so much damage. At least you have it so they will blow up 6 blocks away. Maybe we should make the outer structures out of wood and assume they are going to get blown up. Like inevitable.

 

You are most likely right that a sorter of mine would not work on horde nights. I stresstested it with a 30-50 mix of cops, soldiers, nurses and demolishers, and i think an exploding cop took out the bladetrap (It just dissappeard, even with constant repair).

 

They don't blow up since that trap placement along with the half-blocks floor makes the fanblade hit them very slightly above the triggerpoint.

 

And ... well, not sure your aim are worse or better then mine. Belive it or not, i tried to hit the trigger spot with just about every shot in this video.

. Perhaps, with the M60, it is better to try to hit their spot rather then trying to avoid it. Not show in the video is the huge hole those demos blew just at the entrance to the path. I had forseen that, and made sure the entrance to the path was more then just dirt. And the pathway is made of steel btw, still took a decent beating. Pillars was made of cobblestone to shorten the video , and the spikes are just to make a path the zombies will break by themself, forcing them to start hitting the next pillar and so on...

 

That video also show a bit of your idea, design bases with redundancy , so it matters less if demolition zombies blow up or not. I think that is the easiest way to go when demolishers starting to show up.

[Orclover]

You are most likely right that a sorter of mine would not work on horde nights. I stresstested it with a 30-50 mix of cops, soldiers, nurses and demolishers, and i think an exploding cop took out the bladetrap (It just dissappeard, even with constant repair).

 

They don't blow up since that trap placement along with the half-blocks floor makes the fanblade hit them very slightly above the triggerpoint.

 

And ... well, not sure your aim are worse or better then mine. Belive it or not, i tried to hit the trigger spot with just about every shot in this video.

. Perhaps, with the M60, it is better to try to hit their spot rather then trying to avoid it. Not show in the video is the huge hole those demos blew just at the entrance to the path. I had forseen that, and made sure the entrance to the path was more then just dirt. And the pathway is made of steel btw, still took a decent beating. Pillars was made of cobblestone to shorten the video , and the spikes are just to make a path the zombies will break by themself, forcing them to start hitting the next pillar and so on...

 

That video also show a bit of your idea, design bases with redundancy , so it matters less if demolition zombies blow up or not. I think that is the easiest way to go when demolishers starting to show up.

 

Aiming or not aiming might be almost pointless with the M60 on a 16 zed horde night, just waaaay too many zeds on the screen at once to even try and pick a target. It was just hilarious to watch. I think you may be on to the ONLY way to deal with this ridiculous problem, basically a filter to take out the destroyers before they even get into firing range. Filter out what simply can not be managed. So for that we need what? A base a few hundred squares in diameter. A walking path with several electric fences and perfect height blade traps aligned JUST to remove the detonators so the rest of the zeds can march through to the area where we can remove them with melee/guns. Making sure NOT to fire on the destroyers while they are near the filters so as many filters can last long enough to remove them for as long as horde night is going. Or they go back to marching up on us and eventually one of them gets lucky. I think you may have the only non-cheesy and viable (Using a Trader invincible base guys? Really?!??) way of handling this stupid problem.

 

 

The demolisher only explodes when you hit the green light on the chest. The blade trap only hits the head.

An M60 has a wide spread. If you aim in the direction of the demolisher it is very likely that you accidentally hit the green light.

 

I also ran some tests on the demolisher with dart traps. These don't seem to trigger the explosion no matter at what height or direction they fire at the demolisher. But they don't do much damage. You need at least 12 dart traps and 2 blade traps to kill a demolisher.

 

Yea the M60's spread made NOT hitting the detonator impossible but the M60 was the only weapon that consistently killed them. The SMG was a joke to them, The Magnum fired WAY too slow. We have seen 0 sniper rifles on the server since day 1, 0 rocket launchers. So those are not even possible to use. The M60 was it, that or nothing. A fully specced out hammer build could drop them over and over off a platform but I cant see how they are not taking out the base of the walkways when people are hitting them. By the 3rd or 4th one the pathway bellow you would be absolutely nonexistent from all the explosions, I cant see how yall are doing that, but thats just me. 12 dart traps is a non starter for us, we can barely keep us in a few thousand rounds of ammo, we just cant gather that much resources and we are on day 30ish. Honestly I think the admin having us on 2 hour days is making this worse than it should be some how. But these things showing up by the handfull constantly on horde night when we are only threat level 130 and 144 is just not working out.

[Kattla]

My apologies to Laz Man, but someone wanted me to run demolition zombies through the previous setup at night.

 

So, 50 demolishers, at night.

 

In case you don't want to waste time on a video, here is the answer:

 

Just about the same, maybe less. Can't fit 25 nor 50 on the pathway at once.

But my aim is improved, i triggered 3 this time around.

 

[Orclover]

My apologies to Laz Man, but someone wanted me to run demolition zombies through the previous setup at night.

 

So, 50 demolishers, at night.

 

In case you don't want to waste time on a video, here is the answer:

 

Just about the same, maybe less. Can't fit 25 nor 50 on the pathway at once.

But my aim is improved, i triggered 3 this time around.

 

 

Its almost like the more demolishers there are with that setup then the easier it got. But why are they taking that path with barriers in the way when they usually just go for your base supports when they cant reach you. Honestly it just raises more questions. Like is the trigger only on the right side? So them facing that way would be way safer than heading them the opposite or head on.

[Kattla]

Its almost like the more demolishers there are with that setup then the easier it got. But why are they taking that path with barriers in the way when they usually just go for your base supports when they cant reach you. Honestly it just raises more questions. Like is the trigger only on the right side? So them facing that way would be way safer than heading them the opposite or head on.

 

I link the base to the pathway with spikes, one level lower then the main base. THAT, and only that is the key. Very simple concept, can be used in a lots of different ways and scaled up. I don't even feel bad using it, since it requires LOTS of repairs, it is not 100% safe and need a VERY active defense to work well. I could possibly defend a horde with just a repair gun and lots of materials, but so i can do with other setups too.

 

For the zombies, they see a path up the walkway->through the barrier->across the spikes->jump 1 block up->me.

However, they can't really jump while they stand on the spike and the spike breaks quickly. And once the spike are broken, so are the path, but, they see another one through the next barrier and so on, until no more spikes or barriers. Then they will attack the main base (Actually, they will attack any block save for dirt, and the base is possibly closest).

 

Since the developers really want to ruin every trick in the book, i don't fully expect this concept to last though. But at least for now, it does. Wonder what they'll come up.

 

My thought on the demolisher though, reading your post and others, is that it comes to early in multiplayer setups, due to the gamestage combination of multiple players.

[Orclover]

My thought on the demolisher though, reading your post and others, is that it comes to early in multiplayer setups, due to the gamestage combination of multiple players.

 

I think with just 1 Demo at a time, we probably would have been fine, at least for hours. Even cop zombies were were falling like flies to the lead we were spitting out. 1 cop zed might have gotten lucky eventually but who knows. 1 demo at a time and we were able to pick them off and focus fire before they could get to the top of the stairs. Even a few that did usually fell down before they blew up. More than likely 1 even alone would have gotten through and detonated at the right time, albeit much later.

 

There is going to be a severely limited way of dealing with this, and thats the long term problem. Every-bodies base will eventually have to use some variant of your solution, and not much else will likely work. In the end we will have maybe 2 or 3 working long term solutions, not a lot of creative ways past that as it stands now.

 

Thats not a fun game in the long run. We might as well be using cookie cutter bases at that point.

[HungryZombie]

When a demolisher explodes, does the explosion just hit the first wall it encounters or does it go though and hit the blocks behind the wall?

[RipClaw]

When a demolisher explodes, does the explosion just hit the first wall it encounters or does it go though and hit the blocks behind the wall?

 

According to my tests, it only hits the first wall. However, the block under the wall can also be damaged because the explosion causes spherical damage.

[Kattla]

When a demolisher explodes, does the explosion just hit the first wall it encounters or does it go though and hit the blocks behind the wall?

 

It just hits the first wall, however, corners can deceive. Also, the strength of the explosion are reduced the further out it goes.

IE: Like this , 2 block tall structure. Demolisher in the middle.

 

1-1-1-1-1

1-2-2-2-1

1-2-#-2-1

1-2-2-2-1

1-1-1-1-1

 

1 - Blocks not hit by explosion

2 - Blocks hit by explosion , even the corners.

# - Demolisher detonation

[Laz Man]

My apologies to Laz Man, but someone wanted me to run demolition zombies through the previous setup at night.

 

So, 50 demolishers, at night.

 

In case you don't want to waste time on a video, here is the answer:

 

Just about the same, maybe less. Can't fit 25 nor 50 on the pathway at once.

But my aim is improved, i triggered 3 this time around.

 

I'm going to refrain from watching anymore of your test videos. Altho informative, it will ruin part of the fun of figuring it out (or at least making a few attempts before throwing my hands up lol)

[Laz Man]

I think with just 1 Demo at a time, we probably would have been fine, at least for hours. Even cop zombies were were falling like flies to the lead we were spitting out. 1 cop zed might have gotten lucky eventually but who knows. 1 demo at a time and we were able to pick them off and focus fire before they could get to the top of the stairs. Even a few that did usually fell down before they blew up. More than likely 1 even alone would have gotten through and detonated at the right time, albeit much later.

 

There is going to be a severely limited way of dealing with this, and thats the long term problem. Every-bodies base will eventually have to use some variant of your solution, and not much else will likely work. In the end we will have maybe 2 or 3 working long term solutions, not a lot of creative ways past that as it stands now.

 

Thats not a fun game in the long run. We might as well be using cookie cutter bases at that point.

 

I know its disheartening not having a solution that works for you yet, but I encourage you not to give up. It is these challenges that adds more depth to the game and makes it even more rewarding when you come up with a solution.

 

If every challenge could be figured out right away it wouldnt really be a challenge worth overcoming. 😎

[Laz Man]

It just hits the first wall, however, corners can deceive. Also, the strength of the explosion are reduced the further out it goes.

IE: Like this , 2 block tall structure. Demolisher in the middle.

 

1-1-1-1-1

1-2-2-2-1

1-2-#-2-1

1-2-2-2-1

1-1-1-1-1

 

1 - Blocks not hit by explosion

2 - Blocks hit by explosion , even the corners.

# - Demolisher detonation

 

That actually is really good to know. Will help in planning some base defenses. Maybe sheet/plate blocks will play a bigger role for example. 😎👍

[Ghostlight]

Perhaps...but I think it adds more depth/challenge/progression to base building. Since demos aren't supposed to show up until mid/late game, you can get away with simpler designs and then pushed to evolve or......die. 😅👍

 

Got a bunch of them on day 21 horde. Do you consider that mid/late game?

[Noompsie]

I actually don't like the demolisher. Just doesnt fit in with the game and OP as heck. I can see the day when people will be riding around on their bikes and its not too far off. 4 of us on an all steel base and at least half a dozen explosions. did quite a bit of damage, far too much.

[Ghostlight]

OK I guess the 64,000 dollar question is....

 

How do you mod them out of the game?