Sorry, but too much loot ...Balance of dead

[KrashYT22]

I watched several streamers that broadcast new alpha. And everyone has the same problem - TOO MUCH LOT. BALANCE OF THE DEAD.

 

An electric baton and new portable turrets were added to the game. This is what you really want to find or craft. But it falls in several pieces already in the first houses.

There was an interest when you accidentally find a toilet in a toilet barrel, in which there are 4 bullets. And you think that you will spend them if the dog catches up with you, because in close combat or a battle with a bow, it will have time to create bleeding. And there will be problems. And now ...

 

Previously, you open 10 boxes, and in 1-2 you find something. Now streamers open 10 boxes, and 7-9 of them contain something, and this is something quite significant

 

On the second day, everyone already has several pistols, a Kalash, a gun, 3 electric batons, a steel ax. 2 portable turrets. In boxes, 30-40 rounds are often dropped. A lot of rare loot and so on. Very very strange

 

Can I get an answer? Is this balance just a mistake? For everything is very fat. Surviving an hour of the game turns into a baron. P.s. I wrote through Google translator, so that the meaning can be distorted compared to my original thoughts

[Roland]

You’ll have to play it to decide if it is OP. I’m sure that balancing will be ongoing.

[Adam the Waster]

one day I WANT a AA-12 in 7DTD.......some day

[KrashYT22]

I don’t know what OP means. I know that there is a lot of loot. Judge for yourself if you added a baton with electricity, and on the forums they wrote that you need to study science and intelligence for this, or something like that. And in the end, these clubs fall endlessly. If earlier I found a gun with 4 bullets, but now in every house you can find 2 ak47. And a cartridge falls to each pack, it’s not a balance

[Adam the Waster]

one day I WANT a AA-12 in 7DTD.......some day

 

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I don’t know what OP means. I know that there is a lot of loot. Judge for yourself if you added a baton with electricity, and on the forums they wrote that you need to study science and intelligence for this, or something like that. And in the end, these clubs fall endlessly. If earlier I found a gun with 4 bullets, but now in every house you can find 2 ak47. And a cartridge falls to each pack, it’s not a balance

 

OP means over powerd

[Hek Harris]

The first thing you'll try is to reduce the loot rate at 50%, just to see if it works. I'll give it a try before asking for a nerf.

[KrashYT22]

Well, it’s psychologically embarrassing for me to deviate from the norm. Therefore, in principle, I do not play with mods.

 

I want the normal amount of loot to be at 100% of the loot value. And now the situation is that loot is 4 times more than the norm. And again, the quality of the content that you find in the boxes will not decrease. That is, instead of 2 ak47 you will get 1. But it will still be AK47 on the first day of the game. This situation also does not suit

[Scyris]

You’ll have to play it to decide if it is OP. I’m sure that balancing will be ongoing.

 

Its very op from what i've seen, to many weapons around imo. Don't get me started on how brokenly op the junk turret is.

[KrashYT22]

I don’t know what to answer your desire for this shotgun. I generally don’t like adding content in the form of weapons. I am satisfied with the old set, without grenades, c4, brass knuckles. And the rest, especially the machine gun. Even would remove the rocket launcher from the game. The only thing that fits in my opinion is the double-barreled shotgun, the cartridge is small in size, you can find one at the beginning of the game, I wonder if you can fire two shots and continue the battle in close combat.

 

And aa12 in my opinion is more suitable for modern shooters than for such a setting.

[Hiperion]

stop asking for a nerf at least until you can play it

 

It's a good release

[KrashYT22]

I do not need to play a game in order to learn with my eyes.

[Doctor3D]

stop asking for a nerf at least until you can play it

 

It's a good release

 

 

The same logic applies to you, then. - Stop saying it's a good release until you've actually played it!

 

 

Anyway, I browsed threw a few of the twitch streams last night as I was getting ready for bed and..my goodness..the loot appears even worse than it was in A17 - even more than when I had watched a few MM streams. Every POI they went in had those stupid little bonus crates at the end with an armory or medical supply inside.

 

You'd have wonder how the people inside all those locked up, dungeon-ified houses even died at all and why they were so careless as to lock all their weapons up in a crate. I know a lot of people seem to like practically every POI being a dungeon with a bonus drop at the end of each one - but it's just not for me. Really sucks, as I just no longer have any enthusiasm for the way the game is - and I suppose it's hard to let go of something I liked so much at one point.

 

I definitely don't need to play it to understand I don't like something like this. It's a continuation of many gameplay-related things I didn't like about A17..I don't have to play an A18-dungeon POI to realize I don't like them or their loot-handouts. I don't have to play an empty landscape outdoors with one or two zombies to realize I don't like that few of zombies.

 

The less zombies you have, the more grindy and tedious they have to make it to kill each one. So instead of having to spend several minutes clearing out hordes of zombies before you can even get into a town..the guys on twitch spend several minutes shooting the same two or three before they die. Increasing the difficulty just makes that tedium worse. Way too many sleepers, not enough walking dead, tank zombies, and endless amounts of loot virtually falling from the sky.

[LegionDiablo]

From what I did see the game is more of a shooter than a survival and with that you need more loot.

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

The same logic applies to you, then. - Stop saying it's a good release until you've actually played it!

 

 

Anyway, I browsed threw a few of the twitch streams last night as I was getting ready for bed and..my goodness..the loot appears even worse than it was in A17 - even more than when I had watched a few MM streams. Every POI they went in had those stupid little bonus crates at the end with an armory or medical supply inside.

 

You'd have wonder how the people inside all those locked up, dungeon-ified houses even died at all and why they were so careless as to lock all their weapons up in a crate. I know a lot of people seem to like practically every POI being a dungeon with a bonus drop at the end of each one - but it's just not for me. Really sucks, as I just no longer have any enthusiasm for the way the game is - and I suppose it's hard to let go of something I liked so much at one point.

 

I definitely don't need to play it to understand I don't like something like this. It's a continuation of many gameplay-related things I didn't like about A17..I don't have to play an A18-dungeon POI to realize I don't like them or their loot-handouts. I don't have to play an empty landscape outdoors with one or two zombies to realize I don't like that few of zombies.

 

The less zombies you have, the more grindy and tedious they have to make it to kill each one. So instead of having to spend several minutes clearing out hordes of zombies before you can even get into a town..the guys on twitch spend several minutes shooting the same two or three before they die. Increasing the difficulty just makes that tedium worse. Way too many sleepers, not enough walking dead, tank zombies, and endless amounts of loot virtually falling from the sky.

 

Finally a good reply....

[hawk949]

You can tweak loot abundance in settings. Also even in 17 weapons were all over the place. There you needed mods to make a gun work and scrap the rest, now you have to scrap all the rest to craft a decent one so you don't just waste ammo or luck out with rng. (i don't look at xml at all, but if loot isn't coded to types => more weapons= more chances to see a weapon per loot)

[Scyris]

From what I did see the game is more of a shooter than a survival and with that you need more loot.

 

But whats the point of more loot with nothing to.. shoot? I may be used to darkness falls spawn rates, but not even a17 was this boring looking exploring. I see no reason at all why the spawn rate needed to be touched. I was watching a streamer and on day 15 he has multiple t5-6 items from loot, and hes not even level 24/25 yet when I watched, that seems way to good. Even with lucky looter maxxed thats way to do, it was never that easy in a17.

 

There is so much loot that hes not even bothered to craft anything other than say stone axe/stone shovels as there is no need to, the loot drops like candy on holloween. IMO in 7 days to die one of the games biggest flaws is once your established there is really no reason to keep playing anymore. They did slow down leveling so this takes longer, but it kinda defeats the purpose of that when you make loot drop like water, and make it too easy to get the things you need. A fully made gun or weapon of any kind should be super rare, not several in every chest like it is now.

[Doctor3D]

You can tweak loot abundance in settings. Also even in 17 weapons were all over the place. There you needed mods to make a gun work and scrap the rest, now you have to scrap all the rest to craft a decent one so you don't just waste ammo or luck out with rng. (i don't look at xml at all, but if loot isn't coded to types => more weapons= more chances to see a weapon per loot)

 

No, you can't. You can tweak loot QUANTITY in settings. The loot abundance setting just determines how many of an item you will get - you will still get the item. If you walk up to a bird nest with a loot abundance setting on 100% and you roll 12 feathers.., if you had the loot abundance on 50% - you'd get 6. You still get the feather. Now this can help with some things - you'll have less overall ammo with lowering this.

 

But...the primary problem with just saying, well you can change a setting, or tweak your XML is that the entire game is supposed to be one cohesive balance. The game is supposed to be balanced around everything. It would be a JOB to actually re-balance things to the way I would personally want it. Every time I'd change one option or XML setting, I'd further unbalance another..and so on and so forth.

 

If you increase the difficulty - to try to make the game more challenging - you just increase the zombie's tank rate which means you're using more ammo and standing there at tedium shooting the same zombie in the head over and over. So, you'd need to go into the XML and change the health to where they do more damage to you like at a higher difficulty but you also do more to them like at a lower difficulty. (the opposite of what higher difficulty currently does) Then, you start it back up again - and welp, it's too easy..not enough zombies and i'm rolling in ammo..So you go back in the XML and lower various probabilities to give you less ammo and increase the amount of zombies where possible.

 

Each thing you dislike and thus change just leads to more and more things you have to change. Thankfully, they have made most things available and accessible to change. But, the entire game is based around and balanced around complete mechanics that make the game less fun and immersive such as excessive dungeon POIs - the sleeper system - the limited walking dead - the greatly dumbed down crafting compared to the beginning, etc..and it would be a huge undertaking for one guy to just 'simply change what you don't like'

[Scyris]

No, you can't. You can tweak loot QUANTITY in settings. The loot abundance setting just determines how many of an item you will get - you will still get the item. If you walk up to a bird nest with a loot abundance setting on 100% and you roll 12 feathers.., if you had the loot abundance on 50% - you'd get 6. You still get the feather. Now this can help with some things - you'll have less overall ammo with lowering this.

 

But...the primary problem with just saying, well you can change a setting, or tweak your XML is that the entire game is supposed to be one cohesive balance. The game is supposed to be balanced around everything. It would be a JOB to actually re-balance things to the way I would personally want it. Every time I'd change one option or XML setting, I'd further unbalance another..and so on and so forth.

 

If you increase the difficulty - to try to make the game more challenging - you just increase the zombie's tank rate which means you're using more ammo and standing there at tedium shooting the same zombie in the head over and over. So, you'd need to go into the XML and change the health to where they do more damage to you like at a higher difficulty but you also do more to them like at a lower difficulty. (the opposite of what higher difficulty currently does) Then, you start it back up again - and welp, it's too easy..not enough zombies and i'm rolling in ammo..So you go back in the XML and lower various probabilities to give you less ammo and increase the amount of zombies where possible.

 

Each thing you dislike and thus change just leads to more and more things you have to change. Thankfully, they have made most things available and accessible to change. But, the entire game is based around and balanced around complete mechanics that make the game less fun and immersive such as excessive dungeon POIs - the sleeper system - the limited walking dead - the greatly dumbed down crafting compared to the beginning, etc..and it would be a huge undertaking for one guy to just 'simply change what you don't like'

 

This, so many people do not understand how the loot amount actually works. It lowers the amount you get of things that stack like the mentioned feathers and ammo, but you'll still get the same amount of items the container will pull from. Which i've seen some containers give 6-10 items.

[tricorius]

I wouldn't be surprised if loot was tweaked to be a bit higher on release. It is no secret that, psychologically, getting stuff triggers endorphine. This makes for a much more exciting watching experience too (the streamer is happier, therefore more likely to pumped while playing, which in turn can enhance the viewer's desire to download and play this thing).

 

I don't think this is a problem. Even if it was intentional to make streams more exciting (which I have no knowledge of, it's completely a guess); I'm perfectly fine with it.

 

Peeps, it's the first few days. This is what optimization and balancing are for (and also why I often wait a while before downloading anything, or buying revision 1 of any hardware)...early stuff hasn't had all the important tweaking done yet.

[Morloc]

This, so many people do not understand how the loot amount actually works. It lowers the amount you get of things that stack like the mentioned feathers and ammo, but you'll still get the same amount of items the container will pull from. Which i've seen some containers give 6-10 items.

 

I'm not so sure. I play exclusively on 25% loot, and the vast majority of containers contain absolutely nothing. The Weapons Bag, and big chest at the end of the POI?....completely empty 75+% of the time. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, I'd say it reduces both quantity and number of items.

 

As for the drops the streamers are getting, I'd suggest that it's intentionally higher in 18.0 so that they/we actually see the loot without the need to grind in order to get the bugs squashed sooner.

 

 

-Morloc

[Hek Harris]

I'm not so sure. I play exclusively on 25% loot, and the vast majority of containers contain absolutely nothing. The Weapons Bag, and big chest at the end of the POI?....completely empty 75+% of the time.

Totally. It's how it works in A17. I love when people come to explain game mechanics and have not even try to verify their theory in the latest version.

[KrashYT22]

I do not know. Unless from the first box, finding something valuable, you will enjoy. But when you see that the game overwhelms you with this, you experience only negative emotions.

[fragtzack]

I watched several streamers that broadcast new alpha. And everyone has the same problem - TOO MUCH LOT. BALANCE OF THE DEAD.

 

An electric baton and new portable turrets were added to the game. This is what you really want to find or craft. But it falls in several pieces already in the first houses.

There was an interest when you accidentally find a toilet in a toilet barrel, in which there are 4 bullets. And you think that you will spend them if the dog catches up with you, because in close combat or a battle with a bow, it will have time to create bleeding. And there will be problems. And now ...

 

Previously, you open 10 boxes, and in 1-2 you find something. Now streamers open 10 boxes, and 7-9 of them contain something, and this is something quite significant

 

On the second day, everyone already has several pistols, a Kalash, a gun, 3 electric batons, a steel ax. 2 portable turrets. In boxes, 30-40 rounds are often dropped. A lot of rare loot and so on. Very very strange

 

Can I get an answer? Is this balance just a mistake? For everything is very fat. Surviving an hour of the game turns into a baron. P.s. I wrote through Google translator, so that the meaning can be distorted compared to my original thoughts

 

Agree with OP, way too much easy loot in the streamers I watched.

[Ganeden]

Totally. It's how it works in A17. I love when people come to explain game mechanics and have not even try to verify their theory in the latest version.

 

It's a combination of the two and possibly even that is incomplete. I don't fault the others who think it's just loot quantity because that's basically what the mouseover description says although being rude in 'corrections' is unhelpful. Anyone who has played this game for over 30-40 hours will know there is a seriously lack of descriptions, stats/effects referenced that are never displayed anywhere and descriptions that are just plain incorrect. 'Loot abundance' is for sure one of these since it not just effects the amount of things like ammo or feathers that you will get but effects the amount of loot overall. I'm unsure if it effects quality of items (weapon/armor/tool level) or chance to obtain rarer items (stuff that's only craftable at higher levels or things like high performance running shoes).

 

I'm not sure nerfing quantities for everyone is the way to go. It certainly does seem to be the case that loot is even easier to obtain in A18 and I too am not sure of the overall benefits for this as it pertains to long term enjoyment of a single world, as opposed to getting bored around level 40 because you're maxed out already.

 

I think it should be remembered how long we've all played this game. We're masters. It's going to be nearly impossible to ressurect the difficulty we once faced in this game and perhaps this is the price we pay for playing early access. Ease should be expected after years of playing and watching. I think even avid gamers would find a huge learning curve and difficulty if they entered the game right now and who do you program for, the veterans or future people you hope to sell the game to? It is, after all, a business. Believe it or not, I play on insane difficulty, 24/7 nightmare run speed, perma-death with 50% loot abundance for like six months now and even this becomes easy after two weeks in game. I then start taking risks on purpose and get myself killed to start over in the section of the game that is still fun for me - the beginning.

 

What's the fix for this? I don't know. I don't think nerfing loot will help since you can already do that yourself. Perhaps I, like many here probably, have just played the game too much and it's now too easy and thus not nearly as much fun anymore. I hope this alpha changes that. I doubt it will.

[Glaston]

People got so antsy when they took away lootable Zombie corpses.

 

 

 

Dunno what streamers OP and others are watching but the ones I watch have normal loot amounts by days 10/11

Watching Grumbul ---- day 11 he has level one stone tools, lvl 3 Ak , lvl 2 bow ,lvl 2 stun baton,some ammo. By day 15 he has some low level iron tools

Watching Max Fox---- day 8 he has lvl 2 pistol, lvl 4junk turret, lvl 1 double barrel, lvl 3 Ak, lvls 1-2 iron tools.

Runs out of ammo during day 7 horde night and dies.

 

 

 

Lots of people play War of the Walkers mod , simply because it has plenty of LOOT.

Way more than vanilla.

 

 

 

OP has 3 negative A18 threads before it has even landed on Steam.