Gamestage balancing may need to be looked at

[Kattla]

Firstly why go into a tier 5 POI then? Scavenge in smaller, easier buildings. Common sense?

 

Second, tier 5's typically have 2 to 3 loot rooms and many of them are much bigger than those in smaller POIs, so even without a quest they can be worth it.

 

 

[Cirion]

I’m not disagreeing with you that the balance does need some work but you are posting from a false premise.

 

The only reason 300 is the max is because TFP gave in to completionists who wanted to be able to get everything maxed given enough time. I would say that if you don’t feel compelled to max out then the true end is around level 150 which is enough to make you king of the world.

 

So 40/150 is probably still a little soon but I can tell you it will never be */300 because that is not considered the end. It is considered several hundred miles past end credits rolling.

 

I can understand where you're coming from, and I don't intend for them to come right at 300, but at the very least I don't think a single green zombie should show up until, say, 75-100.

 

Regardless of level 100, 300 being the max, many people are reporting seeing greens as early as the first week or two, and that's just not right in my opinion.

[Tin]

I can understand where you're coming from, and I don't intend for them to come right at 300, but at the very least I don't think a single green zombie should show up until, say, 75-100.

 

Regardless of level 100, 300 being the max, many people are reporting seeing greens as early as the first week or two, and that's just not right in my opinion.

 

I have a bit of a different take.

I like coming across 'some' poi's that have entities I just can't handle, in the early game. It makes me think "nope! Time to run away! and find a different place to tackle, for now.."

[Druga Runda]

Numbers, not sponges.

 

+1

 

Yes please. We have sponge games everywhere. Sponges are easy, numbers are hard.

[Jedo]

Regardless of level 100, 300 being the max, many people are reporting seeing greens as early as the first week or two, and that's just not right in my opinion.

 

Well, that depends on how quickly they power level, don't you think?

 

I think this is where Guppy would say that the problem is leveled enemies.

[apostrophe]

Lessons can be taken from Bethesda games and their scaling enemies. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and 4, the enemies in these games followed your progression in the game, meaning that everyone is always more or less up with you. This has been criticized in retrospect, because if all enemies scale with you, there won't be dangerous spots which will frighten early level players and reward high level players, like there are in Fallout New Vegas.

 

In FNV a new player simply cannot wander into some areas as the enemies there will waste him in seconds (cazadores!). This restricts the player and will be frustrating, yes, but in a tough love manner, the same player, having leveled up enough can return later and claim its bounties, which is an incredibly rewarding feeling.

[Cirion]

I have a bit of a different take.

I like coming across 'some' poi's that have entities I just can't handle, in the early game. It makes me think "nope! Time to run away! and find a different place to tackle, for now.."

 

Actually, I myself prefer this over the "gamestage" method. It feels more immersive to me and more enjoyable as well. Personally, I want a system where the further you progress from the "newbie" zone the harder things get. I would find so much more enjoyment from this. Not only would this encourage exploration, but you can actually plan your progression properly rather than be "forced" to progress via gamestage.

 

I've never liked the whole gamestage thing, to be quite honest. It FORCES you to face harder zombies, rather than face them on your own terms when you want. The other advantage of this is if you're feeling especially adventurous, you could face the harder zombies at level 1 if you're crazy enough.

 

As a player, I always hate being "Forced" to do anything.

 

You know what too? This would also all but eliminate complaints of "grinding" and "level gating". You want better loot? Take more risks. Tackle the harder POI's. You want a casual gameplay? Take your time and progress at your own pace. Choose your own adventure!

 

Right now making vehicles is actually somewhat superfluous at least if you have loot set to respawn, because the same loot, generally speaking, will be in a 1-2 km radius of spawn as it will be 10 km out. The encouragement of exploration alone would add a lot of gameplay IMO

[PoppaTot]

snip

 

I really like your idea posted above

[Royal Deluxe]

That's because this is the worst kind of level scaling.

 

Enemies that stay exactly the same... except they get more damage/HP as your level increases.

 

If (some) players hadn't lost their ♥♥♥♥s over HP bars we would have a lot more options to scale enemies.

Could be a different name signifying an increased stat or icons depicting extra abilities.

 

Feel free to randomize them

 

What i still not understand is why the team dont utilize the infection more.

Bad azz infection = only given by Hazmat zombies = Player will fight them only on distance.

(The infection is the big threat in the Zombie genre)

 

Further more zombies that have special moves like (Snakes), Vultures and Spiders.

How about a Human zombie that has a evil ram attack and kill 2000 Block hp on his charge. (Way to counter = Kill during he charge his charge or be on a other layer (no attacks on other high levels))

 

And finally Shooting zombies (thorns, faster and more often than cops) that make you take cover and stop you rushing (Well bandinds will deliver this ? )

 

But so long the tactic against a zombie or different said, the main characteristics of the zombies are still intact, randomize the hell out of them. I wish no Heath bars for that. IN real life they would have no health bar too

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

(Btw i died yesterday the first time against zombies (well at least so far i remember), well my base was a bit small, and the Puking enemys in the X64 Horde got me down, and then a exploding cop finished me, yeaa that was unexpected ^^)

[Cirion]

There are a couple of drawbacks and potential problems with what I mention, but I think easily enough fixed.

 

One is how to define the "newbie zone"? Clearly, it probably won't work right unless the newbie zone is around 0,0 coordinates with the current way maps are set up. So you would need to spawn new players around this area.

 

or

 

Maybe you can do like ARK does it. You can choose roughly where to spawn. You could spawn in the 0,0 region (easy start), a little further out (medium start), or far out (hard start) etc...

 

this would also solve the problem we run into MP a lot which is spawning several km from each other

[Royal Deluxe]

Wasteland is allready the harder area.

If the startgame safety bubble would last longer (4 hours after finishing the start quests ?)

and larger (large enough to leave the wasteland)

 

Feel free to make it a hell on earth

[Cirion]

Yeah but that's only like..... one biome that is harder. Not interesting or gameplay prolonging enough for me.

 

I'm thinking more of an almost infinite progression. Or a lot more than just one more biome. I'm thinking at least 10 biomes of progressing difficulty.

 

In addition, the wasteland biome is not logically placed so that its a certain radius from the spawn zone, especially if you're playing RWG

[Royal Deluxe]

I guess its better to start by making the Wasteland a hell and then see how the game feels.

10 Biomes are like 90% of a 8x8 map

[Guppycur]

How is wasteland harder?

 

...the mines is all I can think of...

[Cirion]

How about, the green zombies only show up in the radiated biome (A new biome which I hope they'll add) and I'm not referring to the border walls which dev's have already said will never be turned into a biome.

[Royal Deluxe]

How is wasteland harder?

 

...the mines is all I can think of...

 

i had ferals, spiders, dogs, bears and all the other nice stuff on day 1 in wasteland

[fishjie]

There are a couple of drawbacks and potential problems with what I mention, but I think easily enough fixed.

 

One is how to define the "newbie zone"? Clearly, it probably won't work right unless the newbie zone is around 0,0 coordinates with the current way maps are set up. So you would need to spawn new players around this area.

 

or

 

Maybe you can do like ARK does it. You can choose roughly where to spawn. You could spawn in the 0,0 region (easy start), a little further out (medium start), or far out (hard start) etc...

 

this would also solve the problem we run into MP a lot which is spawning several km from each other

 

easiest way is not to overthink it. small POIs like houses, barns, churches, or those small one story shops will be the beginner areas. loot will be basic. food, maybe a pistol and some ammo, but in general very little good stuff. Greens are perma banned from here. MAYBE one in ten should have a green to keep players on their toes. Multi story commercial POIs, abandoned traders, and etc should have some ferals and an occasional green. Some better guns should be here. End game dungeons like skyscrapers and nuclear silo and etc should be crawling with greens, but have lots of loot to compensate - the best weapons, mods, coins, and so on

 

piece of cake

[LuckyStar]

How is wasteland harder?

 

...the mines is all I can think of...

 

Entitygroup for Wasteland is slightly different.

 

It has 17 zeds instead of 19 so slightly higher chance of fat zombie and also has dogs.

That definitely makes a difference.

 

Also...... yeah the mines.

[i mod those out. There's potatoes in the wasteland instead of mines. STUPID idea to have mines laying around.]

[apostrophe]

Further more zombies that have special moves like (Snakes), Vultures and Spiders.

How about a Human zombie that has a evil ram attack and kill 2000 Block hp on his charge. (Way to counter = Kill during he charge his charge or be on a other layer (no attacks on other high levels))

 

And finally Shooting zombies (thorns, faster and more often than cops) that make you take cover and stop you rushing (Well bandinds will deliver this ? )

 

But so long the tactic against a zombie or different said, the main characteristics of the zombies are still intact, randomize the hell out of them. I wish no Heath bars for that. IN real life they would have no health bar too

 

Some good ideas for additional zombie variety, both in form as in role, can be found over at https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Infected and https://deadisland.fandom.com/wiki/Zombies

[PoppaTot]

i had ferals, spiders, dogs, bears and all the other nice stuff on day 1 in wasteland

 

Night 1 I had a cop, feral wight, and a zombie bear all in the same spot in the wasteland biome... that's a bit harder that nurse in the forest lol

[RestInPieces]

There are a couple of drawbacks and potential problems with what I mention, but I think easily enough fixed.

 

One is how to define the "newbie zone"? Clearly, it probably won't work right unless the newbie zone is around 0,0 coordinates with the current way maps are set up. So you would need to spawn new players around this area.

 

Doesn't have to be the further you go the harder - it would also feel artificial in the end. It could be a mix, depending on type of POI, RNG and biome. The point is for the game to never fail to surprise you.

 

As for additional zombie variety I'd hate generic monster zombies shooting spikes and so on. After a point, we might as well ditch the whole zombie concept. Could still have enough variety with a lesser "fantasy" approach.

[Cirion]

I get it, there are pros and cons to each way of doing it, so how about this then

 

Depending on biome you are in, you have higher or lower probability of getting harder POI's

 

Forest biome - low to zero chance of getting crazy POIs

Snow biome - low to medium chance of getting crazy POIs

Desert biome - medium chance of hard POI's

Burned wasteland - medium to decent chance of hard poi's

Wasteland - decent chance of hard poi's

Radiated wasteland (new biome?) - almost all poi's are crazy

 

something like that?

[apostrophe]

I get it, there are pros and cons to each way of doing it, so how about this then

 

Depending on biome you are in, you have higher or lower probability of getting harder POI's

 

Forest biome - low to zero chance of getting crazy POIs

Snow biome - low to medium chance of getting crazy POIs

Desert biome - medium chance of hard POI's

Burned wasteland - medium to decent chance of hard poi's

Wasteland - decent chance of hard poi's

Radiated wasteland (new biome?) - almost all poi's are crazy

 

something like that?

 

You're going in the right path mate.

[Royal Deluxe]

I get it, there are pros and cons to each way of doing it, so how about this then

 

Depending on biome you are in, you have higher or lower probability of getting harder POI's

 

Forest biome - low to zero chance of getting crazy POIs

Snow biome - low to medium chance of getting crazy POIs

Desert biome - medium chance of hard POI's

Burned wasteland - medium to decent chance of hard poi's

Wasteland - decent chance of hard poi's

Radiated wasteland (new biome?) - almost all poi's are crazy

 

something like that?

 

Besides a hard biome i wouldnt make the amount of hard pois dependent on a biome.

Instead i would make 2 Versions of each poi, one easy and one filled with hard zombies,

and then simply spawn 90% the easy ones

(Nearly no wardrobe and ceiling spawners, max 1-2 Glowing per poi)

and 10% the hard ones.

 

I guarantie you that will kill more player than the current 100% hard pois

[Cirion]

I just think the game would be more interesting if the biomes had more unique reasons to visit them other than "Oh I need to go there because I need to mine this one item from the underground regions of this biome"

 

biomes need more unique enemies, more unique POI's, with more unique loot. my opinion.

 

as much as I hate the wasteland, it does have a nice "dangerous" feel to it with the landmines and deadlier enemies and I appreciate that about it.