Gamestage balancing may need to be looked at

[Jugginator]

Now, I'm one for a challenge -- don't get me wrong there -- but after reading a couple other similar complaints, and a bit of *sigh* moments from me in my recent slowly-played run, maybe it's needed for a bit o' discussion.

 

I've been randomly playing this save: Navs map, Survivalist difficulty, 16(? I think, whatever's close to that setting) spawns on blood moons, no air drops, everything else default. And yes, I know I'm asking for a beatdown starting the game on Survivalist, but... every damn house, since day 21-28 range, is flooded with rad-sleepers. I don't mean one or two rads and the rest normal -- or even feral -- I mean damn near all of them are rad. Sometimes there may be some ferals, but that's such a low occurrence that I'm pleasantly shocked there are ferals instead of rads.

 

Now, I don't have much of an issue killing rads. I've bought/looted some steel armor (this is going on the day.. 25-28 range), and I was lucky to snag a 6-quality AK and a couple of mods. I can sledge down some rads, but when I get 3-6 rads on me -- especially when rad wights are included -- even being ample in tactics and gear is rough. I've died around 6 times, so my game stage did get lowered after. And that's fine in both dying (it is called 7 days to die) and the game stage lowering did reduce rad sleepers. But a day or two later, back to rad-parties.

 

I'm on day 40 now, and I gotta be honest, I don't go inside buildings anymore unless I just direly need to. I farm for ammo out in the open as well as iron, and that's about it. To go into even a small house requires gearing up like it's hordenight, but I don't have a base to defend inside: I gotta do it inside a well-crafted trapped building, with minimal -- if any -- escape routes to get some distance (go ahead, run in a dead sprint from rad zombies in a poi smack dab into more rad sleepers to gain ground on the other rads, ain't gonna work rofl I tried).

 

Luring out doesn't work. If you even get a few to wake up and go outside -- seemingly by bug or design -- once you kill those, rad sleepers respawn in the sleeper-spawn spot inside the poi...

 

I don't want the game easier, to say, but I wouldn't mind seeing a slight change in the sleeper spawns in the POIs. Maybe a bit fewer rad zombies spawning in there? lol. Rad zombies feel like bosses, or should rather. Having them as common as glass-jars is a bit much and kinda kills the "Is that a... oh god it is a rad fall back!" and turns it into, "Ugh how bad do I need to loot this gas station... going to be half a dozen rads and a few rad wights inside it..." I dare not to check out most of the new POIs due to it.

 

Fill those suckers with ferals, maybe a normal wight or something, not 99% rad zombies please lol.

 

Btw, in that playthrough, I've seen exactly zero normal wights -- are they in the game even? It's gone from normal zombies > mostly rads with the occasional feral. I guess what I'm trying to suggest is to tier the game stages, not normal > hardest possible. Something in between for transitioning would be nice.

 

I'd say that's because I'm on Survivalist, but I've seen people on Normal or Warrior describe similar occurances. Maybe it's bad luck or my game files are jarred up?

[Hek Harris]

Hola hombre My world is currently full of irradiated z, but I'm lvl 200 day 105 so I'm fine with that, thanks to the high skills. At day 40, I didn't have so many irradiated z, but I play in warrior difficulty - I don't know if it's taken into account.

So what are your level and game stage ?

[Ghostlight]

Turn difficulty down? This will reduce your gamestage. The last thing this alpha needs is a nerf in difficulty or a reduction in gamestage calculation. If anything GS neds to rise faster since it is so easy for the player to max out.

[Jugginator]

Hola hombre My world is currently full of irradiated z, but I'm lvl 200 day 105 so I'm fine with that, thanks to the high skills. At day 40, I didn't have so many irradiated z, but I play in warrior difficulty - I don't know if it's taken into account.

So what are your level and game stage ?

 

Bonjour ami Honest I am not at home, but I'll come back with that intel later on today. I'm wondering that, too now about difficulty. I just saw some others posting the same thing, rads everywhere. I think my gamestage is around 300. Level.. like I said I'll find out later exactly. I don't play much. I'm high enough to be a steel worker and have high endurance/gun perks.

 

And Ghostlight, I specifically said I've seen others saying similar stuff on lower difficulties. And I said I don't know anything but Survivalist difficulty. I find the HP/damage of zombies pathetic on lower difficulties, I don't want to run around one-shotting everything, but I don't want every single zombie sleeper to be rad lol.

 

On another note, even on Survivalist, at least with my perks and handful of mods, normal/ferals I normally kill in one whack with my sledgehammer, if not, two. If I lower it I'll be bored to death. Maybe Warrior, but I think increasing the difficutly should increase zombie HP, not just replace everything with Rads lol.

[Royal Deluxe]

I think increasing the difficulty should increase the Zombie entity damage and the run speed (allow different movement styles).

Nothing else (Since raising the amount is limited)

 

 

Thats the joke, many green zombies dont kill the player.

To kill the player you need to disturb his balance, his cadence.

 

If a player loots 3 Houses without anyting glowing green and in the 4th house he suddenly engage 3 of them, THEN they can get him on the wrong foot and kill him.

 

But a player who know what he do laugh about a house full of glowing z´s. All he need is enough ammo and explosives

[Ghostlight]

At GS 300 there are going to be a lot of rads, yes. And there NEEDS to be. As you said yourself, you 1-shot anything that isn't irradiated. I am at 500 for the record, 5th highest difficulty, no idea what it's called. All I do is tier 5 quests in tier 5 POIs and it is absolutely fine, OTHER THAN the TIME it takes to do them, as it is now verging on a full day for one quest.

[asmosnuts]

This will probably get worse when legendary weapons come in, its the games major problem atm. Once you get steel the challenge is gone and is just ramped up with rad zombies pouring from everywhere.

At that point most bases are done and there is no real need for looting, especially if you don't use guns that much. Feral/glowing/spitting zombies kill the game for me, they just don't fit and are just a mechanic to kill players/bases quicker.

Not sure how or if this will ever be fixed (bandits will decrease zombie numbers by necessity) no real lack of balance just no way to really balance late game which is something that hasnt changed from 16. Still love the game up until steel armour just lose interest at poi full of rads.

[xXBadDreamXx]

meh . I personally feel that looting shouldn't use as much resources as an average horde night . For me this is kind of the problem with the game the way it is now. So many zombies all the time it just diminishes from the 7 day horde. Every horde night I go through now feels like a big let down and almost a waste of time whereas before it was the entire point of the game, to gear up for the big horde night. Now it just feels like a zombie grinder, but I guess that's mostly to do with the fact that I enjoyed looting and gathering resources and building as much as killing zombies . Now I feel like I have to kill zombies just to get the basic supplies I need and I don't have enough time in a game day to gather resources,

[PoppaTot]

and turns it into, "Ugh how bad do I need to loot this gas station... going to be half a dozen rads and a few rad wights inside it..." I dare not to check out most of the new POIs due to it.

 

This happens to me every mid game. Literally, last night IRL. I was out exploring, games stage 175ish and Day 31 I believe, and I find a Poppin Pills. Broke 1 window and saw 6 (minimum) radiated zeds start running at me. Said "F it", I already have 2 chem stations. Moved on until I get ammo production going. FeelsBadMan, but I'll be back with plenty of ammo and SMG you MnFers lol.

[Royal Deluxe]

Today i try to get some facts together.

 

First question is how many Ammo i can produce and buy in what time

[Archon]

There's something off about the late stages of the game.

 

The higher you go; obviously the more irradiated things you find.

Irradiated zombies are, imo; simply too bullet spongy to ever make engaging with them worth while.

 

So as the ratio of glowsticks increases; the player's playstyle has to change to adapt.

On our server, (12 people) the only valid builds (ie - resource positive) that we've found are Stealth Archer. (Sneak attack skills, archery skills) to get that 4.5x sneak attack crit on everything.

 

This kills all but the beefy green bikers, cops, and boes before they can wake up. Given how easy it is to resupply 1 steel arrow per kill; this is a greatly efficient build that can work at a net-positive while running quests and scavenging.

 

Secondly; Melee - Sledgehammer

As the game's only reliable (100%, due to perks) CC weapon; the sledgehammer is the best tool to go into melee with.

Combine with sneak perks, and the hammer is 1-shotting everything. Or guaranteeing the knockdown and followup kill on boosted power attack for the above mentioned glowsticks that normally survive.

 

This however; really isn't that different of a playstyle because both rely entirely on damage multipliers from stealth.

Anything else just simply isn't worth engaging POIs; because you will be expending more resources in fighting / clearing the undead. (Be it ammo, medical supplies, repair materials.) than you will gain from scavenging most locations.

 

Solution?

With the current game I don't have a solution.

Irradiated zombies are the core of the problem; because even with Rad Removers on all weapons - they are simply too risky to take on outside of stealth (If your engagement goal is a resource positive outcome.) Because honestly there is little risk to the life of the player if you have a loaded up AK, or Magnum. The Zeds will die. You will just be at an ammo negative for the encounter.

 

When more options become available; and when the game is optimized and more stable.

I, personally; will be doing anything I can to mostly disable irradiated zombies entirely. I will be removing the +damage bonus to blocks they gain from being near eachother.

And finally; I will increasing the zombie cap until our server is ready to cry.

 

Imo; zombie survival as a genre was always best with the Romero zombie. Their strength is their numbers. Not the glow-hulks.

[LuckyStar]

Either we get a higher tier of weapons and tools or the spawning gets adjusted.

 

Both would work.

 

So long as TFP addresses this issue.

[Cirion]

I am hoping legendary weapons will help.

 

For now I've modded my game to make it suitable for my tastes.

[Verne]

Insane difficulty 2h days, day 7 lvl ~80 (just by killing zombies and doing quests).

I don't have any problems with radiated zombies, i dont think they are too hard to deal with tho being forced to play one correct way is what bothers me. The only optimal strategy is to just enter poi and start shooting everything using shotgun (or other weapon you prefer) and use money to buy ammo from trader. I tried playing different way but for example stealth is just a waste of time: 7/10 perception and agility, 4 points in headshot dmg, sneak dmg and sneaking using compound bow with steel arrows and this is not even enough to one shot fat, regular zombie. What is worse stealth seems to be not working properly (or it works as intended but in such a stupid way it's not worth skill points).

You stepped on some garbage? All zombies are awoken. Your arrow didnt one shot target and broke instead? All zombies are awoken. You destroyed fake walls with zombies behind while having flashlight turn on (it often happens with flashlight off too)? Zombies are awoken. No matter how hard i tried i wasn't able to find a single reason to consider stealth something worth using (and im type of player who prefer stealth methods in every game).

I believe i don't have to write anything about melee besides that it's dead in late game.

[Greymantle]

Insane difficulty day 40 2 hour days and I'm level 62. I melee for my main attack and have no issues with greens except spider and military who I use my shotgun or pistol to take them down. If the game is to tough for you at the difficulty your playing lower the difficulty. If your on the lowest difficutly then you need to head to the mod section to solve your problem.

[Royal Deluxe]

Insane difficulty day 40 2 hour days and I'm level 62. I melee for my main attack and have no issues with greens except spider and military who I use my shotgun or pistol to take them down. If the game is to tough for you at the difficulty your playing lower the difficulty. If your on the lowest difficutly then you need to head to the mod section to solve your problem.

 

Thanks for the "Git gut" post.

Sadly 100% past the topic

 

 

The problem is not that a house of green enemys is too hard.

The point is that with my character build (that is decent but not specced toward fighting) i simply Need to much ammo.

I need arround 3 Real Hours of Harvesting and trading to get enough ammo to clean 3 Pois.

 

What simply results in "avoid the pois"

[Aldranon]

I start getting the green guys as early as Day 6 if I step into a tough POI.

So when I play a shooter build, I find I'm at a disadvantage as I tend to push intelligence to get the ammo production going or trade for ammo.

Also, a melee build can out mine a shooter build at night for more exp and resources.

 

 

Although I still think a well played stealth/shooter is probably the best build in tough POI's

[PoppaTot]

I start getting the green guys as early as Day 6 if I step into a tough POI.

So when I play a shooter build, I find I'm at a disadvantage as I tend to push intelligence to get the ammo production going or trade for ammo.

Also, a melee build can out mine a shooter build at night for more exp and resources.

 

 

Although I still think a well played stealth/shooter is probably the best build in tough POI's

 

In Navezgane I got greens on Day 2 on the Poppin Pills Hospital lol

[Jedo]

In Navezgane I got greens on Day 2 on the Poppin Pills Hospital lol

 

That sounds like a glitch. My buddy and I did that on Day 10, our levels being in the 20s. I don't think we even had a feral.

[Jugginator]

Insane difficulty day 40 2 hour days and I'm level 62. I melee for my main attack and have no issues with greens except spider and military who I use my shotgun or pistol to take them down. If the game is to tough for you at the difficulty your playing lower the difficulty. If your on the lowest difficutly then you need to head to the mod section to solve your problem.

 

Way to just read the title. I said anything lower than Survivalist is way too easy, and I even doubt you're telling the truth anyway, since spiders are by far the easiest to deal with. Get swarmed by rad Wights/Bloateds/Bikers and tell me you had an easy time -- on insane difficulty.

 

My complaint is normal and feral zombies die in one maybe two hits tops, and the rads (which are 99% of sleeper spawns in my game) require quite a bit more.

 

As to most of the other replies, thanks I learned a bit. I just feel (something Royal said too) the normal/ferals need to be buffed and have rads reduced spawning in sleeper spawns. As bosses near the hidden-stash loot in POIs sure, but I mean literally dozens of rads swarm out of the entry of POIs. I don't think rads need to be nerfed, but I think they should be a bit more special.

 

Oh, I checked my stats earlier, level 102, gamestage 320~. Rad-party began way earlier, prob gamestage 120~ range.

And finally; I will increasing the zombie cap until our server is ready to cry.

 

Imo; zombie survival as a genre was always best with the Romero zombie. Their strength is their numbers. Not the glow-hulks.

 

This! I want 20-30 zombies in a larger POI to challenge me, all ferals maybe a couple of rads in the "loot room" of the building -- not 20-30 rads lol. I really want to check out the POIs, but I mean. I do horde nights at my base with the waves of rads, why do horde nights when checking out the POIs? Again, rads should be bosses, not common enemies. Sure, lag and all, I get that. But the solution shouldn't be throw rads at the player. Hell, normal wights aren't that bad as rads, instead of 20-30 zombies throw 15 or so wights mixed with some cops and other strong zombies. Other ways can happen to keep lag balance and difficulty without just making everything glowing.

[Cirion]

Oh, I checked my stats earlier, level 102, gamestage 320~. Rad-party began way earlier, prob gamestage 120~ range

 

This herein lies the problem, for anyone willing to notice it.

 

What level were you when gamestage was 120? Maybe 40?

 

Max level is 300, you were 40 ish (guessing)

 

Green zombies are the END GAME zombies of this game They should not pop up when you've only achieved 15-20% of max level in the game. If level 100 was the max in this game, THEN seeing your first green at level 40 MIGHT make sense... but not with 300 being the max.

 

I don't care if you play BARBIE mode or if you play INSANE mode. It makes no difference. Difficulty IS NOT RELEVANT HERE. green zombies by level 40 / gamestage 120 is imbalanced no matter how you look at it

[Jugginator]

This herein lies the problem, for anyone willing to notice it.

 

What level were you when gamestage was 120? Maybe 40?

 

Max level is 300, you were 40 ish (guessing)

 

Green zombies are the END GAME zombies of this game They should not pop up when you've only achieved 15-20% of max level in the game. If level 100 was the max in this game, THEN seeing your first green at level 40 MIGHT make sense... but not with 300 being the max.

 

I don't care if you play BARBIE mode or if you play INSANE mode. It makes no difference. Difficulty IS NOT RELEVANT HERE. green zombies by level 40 / gamestage 120 is imbalanced no matter how you look at it

 

Yeah exactly. I love challenge but throwing the hardest-bosses in the game at me way early on kinda.. kills it lol. It was really early on, like I said i started seeing them before day 21, and after that constantly. I was around level 40 area, right. Don't remember exactly, it's been a while lol. It's kinda like playing something then finding it too easy, so you up the difficulty and instead of adding more damage/hp to enemies and etc the devs just turn everything into final-bosses.

[fishjie]

Haha I made the same thread complaining about this a day ago and it blew up. of course i only do default difficulty, but the greens are annoying and made POIs pointless.

 

reading these posts here confirms what i suspected about how i need to tailor my build - max out perception, headshot, and sneak, and snipe them from afar. currently as is, i waste too much ammo on the greens and its not worth it, so i've stopped exploring the new content and stopped doing quests as it was a net loss. in the other thread i shared that my plan now is to simply level up by looting bird nests because looting XP apparently scales with level (im getting like 250 XP per bird nest) and the wilderness is fairly safe. once ive got a decent combat build i'll then explore the POIs, but probably only once cause again, its a net loss.

 

in a16, i liked to do building by night, and exploration of stuff like skyscrapers during the day and it was awesome. i remember at top of the under construction skyscraper prefab, i got to the top and all of a sudden a ton of irradiated came at me. THATS the right way to use irradiated, as a final boss encounter, not in every damn POI i enter. please feel free to buff regular zombies, but for the love of god nerf the irradiated and remove them from regular POIs

[Jugginator]

Right. I hated the difficulty of a16 being too easy no matter what, but I don't think the solution was to throw bosses everywhere instead. It'd be like a difficulty option on FF7, but instead of reducing money gain, xp gain, increasing enemy damage and HP, they replaced everything with Sephiroth. Rads shouldn't be nerfed, nor removed, but they should spawn at the end of pois, not everywhere. I play on Survivalist because other difficulties' zombies don't challenge me. I've been playing tactical shooters most of my life and I (due to.... crazy) played everything on the hardest difficulties. Headshots/tactics come naturally. But the only tactic to facing 20-30 rad wights/etc is to bring massive amounts of ammo and healing stuff / running. Even so, rads no longer are scary or surprising, they're expected and more of an annoyance.

 

Up the HP of normal/ferals, up the spawn-rates of tougher zombies vesus weak ones. Not replace everything with bosses lol.

 

And if you're playing on default, that's even worse for it to happen. Again, I think gamestage should scale hp and dmg on zombies, not replace em with boss rads

[Royal Deluxe]

The problem is that the tactic "to throw wave to wave of soldiers" against a enemy surely works (sometimes) but in the current situation it makes simply no fun.

 

And finally its not really hard.

 

If you want to kill the player you need to disturb his cadence.

If the player allready shoot at every closed wardrobe because he expect zombies in it the whole system cant work.

If in every room a enemy drop from the ceiling the player get used to look there.

If you as player know a army of green glowing bullet sponges will attack you, you place barbwire all over the poi and you will enter it only with decent amounts of ammo. (Means if you have not enough ammo you simply will not enter a poi)

 

 

So how to make it better ?

Rare zombiespawns on ceilings and in Wardrobes

Mixed kinds of movements > Bulletsponges

Most pois with normal amounts of enemys and only scarce huge amounts of Zombies and or green glowing ones

 

 

 

Please more Alien I and less "Call of Alien II"