Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Cirion]

Actually, the best way to get things in A16 was to mine. XP was super unbalanced. After a few days of mining, you could have most of the needed the perks. From there, it was quick work to up the other skills to buy the gated perks. Roland, was there a bunch of complaining about gates in A16? Seems like there should have been. (Also, I'm pretty sure that spam-crafting already had been removed for A16.)

 

This is why I think the solution is something like this

 

Remove exp entirely, the way we know it currently.

 

Instead, have multiple exp bars. One for strength, one for agility, one for fortitude, one for intelligence, one for agility. Abusing mining would just get you strength level ups and not any of the other stats, forcing you to actually play the game rather than spam one thing.

 

Spamming zombies would only get you strength level ups. Avoiding the current zombie spam that people feel the need for. ETC...

[BobTheBard]

Even better if they introduce several. here are just some more ideas i had

 

A few more that hopefully don't feel too 'video-gamey.'

 

Legendary Compound Bow: High accuracy, high zoom. Arrows that hit a player, animal, or zombie never break.

Legendary Crossbow: Features a 5-round magazine (Repeating crossbow) with pistol-speed fire rate. Longer reload.

Legendary SMG: No muzzle climb. Accuracy unaffected by firing.

 

Instead, have multiple exp bars. One for strength, one for agility, one for fortitude, one for intelligence, one for agility. Abusing mining would just get you strength level ups and not any of the other stats, forcing you to actually play the game rather than spam one thing.

 

How would you get it, though? Strength, Perception, and Intellect would be easy to suss out (Melee, ranged, crafting) but what could you do that would gain Agility or Fortitude? Sprinting wouldn't be a great pick for Agility because everybody does it anyway, while Fortitude doesn't really have any currently-ingame method that would make sense for it.

[Cirion]

I like the repeating crossbow idea.

 

Agility - > level up just like athletics did in A16. I don't see why using sprinting would be a bad idea. In my opinion the whole point is to make stats easy to level up so you do NOT have to "grind" them. In my opinion, the moment something becomes a grind, you have failed as the developer. All stats should ideally level up as "Incidental" means of playing (in other words, naturally without grinding). Successful stealth kills could also boost agility.

 

Fortitude - > This could replace the old wellness system. The more you keep yourself well fed and well hydrated, that would be one way to get exp here. Additionally, eating some of the better foods would keep you fed longer (like A16) and also give you a huge boost to fortitude. This would have the added benefit of enticing people to learn the Chef perk. Right now it's not a very useful perk.

[crossed]

I just don't think getting A TON of interesting and unique legendary items is a realistic expectation. And if they only add a handfull then that doesn' really help with the lack of endgame looting that much, you can find them and there's nothing to loot again.

At least with D2 style "slightly different randoms stats" there's always a chance to find better gear, no matter how long you've been playing.

[Cirion]

Why wouldn't it be a realistic expectation? Legendary implies something unique. I will be very disappointed if its just the same as going from 5 to 6 as it is from 6 to 7. Just increasing stats is boring and shows lack of creativity to be honest. Let's set the bar high

 

Regarding the always chance to find better...

 

They could apply that here too if they made it so better stuff spawns the further out from your starting zone. They could even re-do the world to make it infinite so you could in theory get better stuff indefinitely and also increase the difficulty of zombies indefinitely as well.

[crossed]

Well I mean it's just probably a ton of work, especially if we want unique models for them and all.

They could even re-do the world to make it infinite so you could in theory get better stuff indefinitely and also increase the difficulty of zombies indefinitely as well.

This sounds awesome though, an infinite journey for better loot with ever increasing dangers, I want this in the game now

[Cirion]

This sounds awesome though, an infinite journey for better loot with ever increasing dangers, I want this in the game now

 

Seems like this might be impossible to code, but this has been done before just fine. In fact the first "Infinite" generated game I played was waaaaay back when CD roms were awesome. So there is no reasons it can't be done now. (Delta Force - you could wander as far away from the primary map as you wanted, the terrain extended forever - they didn't have border walls)

 

Fortresscraft is a more recent crafting/survival/voxel game that is also infinitely generated both horizontally and vertically so it can definitely be done in a genre like this.

[Roland]

Even better if they introduce several. here are just some more ideas i had

 

Legendary pistol - Uzzi with high cap magazine, 50 cal desert eagle...

Legendary shotgun - as mentioned in previous post double barrelled, semi auto, full auto

Legendary AR - increase magazine to 100 rounds, super fast fire rate

Legendary Marksman Rifle - 50 Cal. Magazine reduction, massive damage increase (Widowmaker from Mass Effect 2 anyone??? Love that gun lol). Kills any thing in one hit to the head, even things like irradiated cop on insane difficulty if you head shot.

Legendary Rocket Launcher - gives rocket launcher the justice it requires. massive radius and damage bonus, sets anything that survives on fire

 

some "new" guns

 

Semi-auto grenade launcher (M-32)

Flamethrower

Mounted gatling. Have to be stationary to use but massive damage and fire rate. No reloading. Ammo pre-loaded into it like a turret.

 

From what I understand legendary gear will have pre-installed unique mods attached that will grant the gear special abilities and not just modifiers to make them more of what they already are. The mods will be permanent and only work with the piece of gear they are attached to.

 

Of course, things could change between now and implementation

[Cirion]

From what I understand legendary gear will have pre-installed unique mods attached that will grant the gear special abilities and not just modifiers to make them more of what they already are. The mods will be permanent and only work with the piece of gear they are attached to.

 

Of course, things could change between now and implementation

 

Thanks for the info. As long as they have something unique that makes them worth using over regular gear!

 

So does that mean I get my Full auto shotgun??

 

AA-12

 

or this:

 

USAS-12 auto shotgun

[Hek Harris]

Makes me think that it would be cool that mods are destroyed when we remove them. An other motivation to loot POIs.

[Ouch Quit It]

AGREED.....its sad that the game went from fun to boring...Every house being a crawl is annoying and boring. i had more fun in the old houses than these new ones......

 

I think TFP is getting bored with the game and just want to finish it and go GOLD..so they are just throwing things in now to complete it ASAP.

 

my post.

 

 

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17/page3288

[Roland]

AGREED.....its sad that the game went from fun to boring...Every house being a crawl is annoying and boring. i had more fun in the old houses than these new ones......

 

I think TFP is getting bored with the game and just want to finish it and go GOLD..so they are just throwing things in now to complete it ASAP.

 

my post.

 

 

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17/page3288

 

To each his own. I love the dungeon crawl POIs and the current ratio of them to basic buildings.

 

But to your point....if TFP was getting bored with the game they wouldn't have spent the time to convert and update around 70 POI's. Doing what they did shows the opposite. They love this game and want it to be the best it can be. For those who like lots of cluttered structures and blind corners it got a lot better than A16 which was in turn better than A15 as far as POI exploration is concerned.

[SnakeWildlife]

My overall collective thoughts after many games in A17+

 

I have had several games now, 1 long game and 4 short/medium length games both with friends and on public servers.

There are so many things i would like to see changed, but im going to focus on the things which matter most to me. Here is my observed experience and feedback:

 

VEHICLES

Love the new vehicles, however some balancing and bugs need addressing.

1. Party members or allies cannot access 4x4 Truck storage, only the person who placed it down.

2. The bikes are understandably fragile, but the 4X4 Truck is damaged too easily and too quickly. Please consider allowing the 4X4 Truck to have more HP or better resistance to small stones. The truck is wide, making it more a victim to small objects, therefor it should not be as fragile as the bikes.

3. Non occupied vehicles roll down a hill too easily, making much less sense when using the motorbikes and 4X4 Truck...did they not invent the handbrake? Please consider forcing non occupied vehicles to constantly brake, please take into consideration that not everyone's bases are going to be on super-flat land.

 

PLAYER STATS and PERKS

I have to be honest with the new perk system, this is a large part of why i have lost interest in 7D2D, as it is a huge change to the core gameplay, and its all negative.

1. MELEE just doesnt work, it feels awful and i boil it down to several reasons:

1a. Early game, you have the fitness and stamina of someone who weighs 1200 pounds, but by mid-game (or just 8 levels later), you have infinite stamina and the fitness of 10 Hussain Bolts.

1b. Melee is less of a brawl now, and more you kiting like you are using a ranged weapon, using your endless stamina like a cheatmode. Melee can hardly be called melee, if being at range is how you play it.

1c. Stun/Knockdown spam (very easily acheivable early-on) is too effective and strips real MELEE combat away from us.

(for melee i would probably advise looking at the Left 4 Dead model, in which melee players are given a 'Shove' button, which quickly degrades in effectiveness if spammed. Perma-stunlocking in 7D2D makes melee a joke)

1d. Arm or Leg gibbing is too rare. Head gibbing seems balanced as it is (should be kept rare)

1e. Heavy strike is far too powerful on the Sledgehammer.

 

2. STAMINA. Where do i begin.. actually, ill just keep this one short.

2a. Early game, far too little stamina crippling peoples experience to the point it makes a lot of people quit the game early. By end game, we have too much, basically infinite. Particularly too much regeneration at end game.

2b. Too many ways to create infinite stamina regeneration methods. Even without coffee, its too much. Start by removing 50 stamina recovery in melee on kill and the stamina recovery on ranged perks, melee efficiency perks are enough.

2c. Another cripple factor is the Encumberance slots. They make NO sense, drop the whole thing. Having Light Armour and Heavy Armour determine our runspeed and stamina cost while running, is more than enough.

2d. Drop swing efficiency perks, you can now Mine infinitely because of it. In the past to mine 'endlessly' required coffee, and that felt a lot better, making coffee had a purpose.

 

3. PERKS. Poorly implemented, a gamekiller for many especially in single player.

3a. The requirements in levels to craft a Forge, Battery bank,and stuff we need to play, is ABSURDLY high. Many players feel they have no choice but to spend constantly in Intelligence when they want to put points into other things. This problem is the worst for Single Players who have to level up EVERYTHING.

(honestly i miss having to find books to craft things..without them, the game currently suffers from a shortage of Paper).

3b. 'Boom! Headshot' and 'Skull Crusher' are far too powerful.

3c. 'Sexual Tyrannosaurus' too easily creates 'Infinite Stamina', remove its stamina gain on killing blow, and reduce effectiveness to 20% at max rank.

3d. 'Slow metabolism' at max rank is bugged. You never need to eat food for up to an entire week, drinking is fine and behaves properly. You never go hungry EVER.

3e. Archery is the weakest it has ever been, with little way to increase damage. After beginning game, Archery becomes exstinct.

 

 

EXPERIENCE AND ZOMBIES

You knew this would be here. What a slow, grindy chore! And its non functional. I will not discuss the Ai here (prefer A16 or earlier). This is THE biggest reason i cant stand playing the game.

A. Killing Zombies is not the one-and-only goal for 7D2D, stop making it so only Zombie Killing is the only way to get XP.

Do you know what should grant more XP? Mining, Cutting trees down, Quests, Crafting, Looting Untouched weapon bags or Untouched Working Stiff crates (things found at the end of a PoI), THINGS PEOPLE DO.

B. On public servers, new players get destroyed by Radiated Feral zombies when they have no gear or stamina to defend themselves, PoI sleepers need to spawn based on the AGE of the player, not how many DAYS the server is up to.

C. On public servers with over 10 players, there are NO wandering zombies. They just never spawn due to limitations, this means barely any XP, because Zombies are XP remember...this made playing on a Public Server a non-option.

 

ANIMAL ANTICS

A. After the server has been online for 2 hours, animal spawn rates go from a wide variety and fair spawn rate, to almost NO spawns, and only rabbits. This includes bears.

B. Wild Wolfs can spawn anywhere at total random, including inside your large, well-trapped base...including in the block next to you, in front of your face.

 

LOOT and CRAFTING

A. It can take over a month of ingame time (30 hours IRL to me) to get a Solar Bank running with full set of cells in a single player/co-op game. In public servers? Just dont even bother. You'll NEVER get them before the top dogs do. This is an outrageous demand! (extremely rare trading object)

B. We cant craft any better clothes? Please correct this.

C. I finally crafted a R6 Steel Mining Helmet!...but it doesnt work. Only the trader could give me a working 'basic' mining helmet.

D. We have a massive shortage of, Bones, Potato's (very rare PoI's), Paper, and more on public servers (no cars left for example, extremely rare then to find from a trader). Add better chances for Battery/Engine/Tyres to Garage Storage boxes.

E. Knuckle Duster should be a melee weapon, not an invisible modification.

 

PERFORMANCE

Lets be honest, its the worst its ever been. Your system can be DOUBLE the recommended game requirements and still be unable to get a stable 60fps, BUT, Hear me out funpimps, i may be able to increase performance for you.

I wont mention the stuttering because we already know youre looking into that. So i'll get to the point:

You dont like people digging underground bases, and have made zombies dig down to you now, we understand that and can accept that, but currently, we can dig down pretty deep...i mean INCREDIBLY deep into the land.

Seeing as theres no point digging deep.. Why dont you reduce the depth of the underground by around 60% ? Think of the dramatic performance boost that will have. Theres no purpose or reason to dig deep anymore. If you really dont want us to dig deep, then COMMIT to it, and reduce the maximum depth by a great amount.

 

Secondly. Memory leak? FPS loss gets worse over long sessions. After a 6 hour session, i need to restart to get things to normal.

Thirdly, during a horde night after being playing for 4 hours, i couldnt move because my console kept taking input away from me, infinitely spamming red messages and disallowing me from escaping its repeated grasp until i ended the task.

[Exxodous]

In a much shorter post, I'm enjoying just about everything you dislike. To each his own I suppose.

[Ghostlight]

Do you know what should grant more XP? Mining, Cutting trees down

 

Once you have Steel (or even Iron) tools and are specced for Mining, it does give more XP. I get 400 XP for a tree and 800 XP for a boulder. Grunt zombies give 550 XP.

[Ghostlight]

Makes me think that it would be cool that mods are destroyed when we remove them. An other motivation to loot POIs.

 

I don't think taking things away from us to encourage us to loot for them again is a good idea.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

if TFP was getting bored with the game they wouldn't have spent the time to convert and update around 70 POI's. Doing what they did shows the opposite.

 

Agreed. I just wish they'd spent that time on other things.

[JCrook1028]

Seeing as theres no point digging deep.. Why dont you reduce the depth of the underground by around 60% ? Think of the dramatic performance boost that will have.

 

They already did this. Bedrock used to be 50 blocks deeper than it is.

[Hek Harris]

Killing Zombies is not the one-and-only goal for 7D2D, stop making it so only Zombie Killing is the only way to get XP. Do you know what should grant more XP? Mining, Cutting trees down, Quests, Crafting, Looting Untouched weapon bags or Untouched Working Stiff crates (things found at the end of a PoI), THINGS PEOPLE DO.

I stopped reading here. You didn't play A17.1. Killing zombies is the LESS rewarding activity after lvl 50. Currently, at lvl 180, I receive more than 300 XP each time I open a container... Mining is awfully rewarding in term of XP. Seriously, go play more than ten hours instead of writting such nonsense.

 

TFP listened to you and gave you exactly what you wanted: easy and safe Xp. And you still find that it is not enough? It would be nice to stop screwing up our game ...

[Cirion]

Sledghammer is not too powerful if anything its too weak. It's only useful on a single zombie. Next to useless on a horde because it only hits one zombie at a time.

[asmosnuts]

Unity seems to cause as many problems as it solves, as the rwg problems, memory leaks ,stuttering et al seem to suggest. I know its a newer version but it has always seemed to cause problems with graphical performance, number of zs, light, maps,vehicles etc etc. Bringing the depth up (and maybe max height down) may alleviate some problems but im not sure the balance will ever be right between features/performance without restricted map sizes,slow vehicles and smaller hordes.

Yes i know its experimental and unoptimised and unfinished but some of these problems have been around a loooong time and some get worse as time goes on. People are already slating the game as it is, unfairly imo and the constant problems unity seems to throw up arent helping matters.

I know nothing about unity or its systems and i dont pretend to. Like most i just want the game to be the best it can be! I believe TFP will deliver and until then 16.4 and 17e arent bad places to visit.

[Cirion]

Turrets cause intense lag, especially auto turrets. I get good fps most of the time but throw up a few auto turrets during an x64 blood moon and forget about it... I'm playing a slide show at that point. lol

[Ranzera]

They already did this. Bedrock used to be 50 blocks deeper than it is.

 

Actually 60 deeper. It was -57; now it's +3.

[open6l]

Agreed. I just wish they'd spent that time on other things.

 

How's that saying go? Quantity over quality? errr.....

[Grue]

Yeah but I bet most of the old guard still play the game not to mention the versions they like are still available as mentioned in a post above and if they aren't they sure still take the time to post on the forum.

 

The game is still as amazing as it was on day one even if things are rough atm. Pick your favorite alpha version and have at it. Reading the reviews will put off many players who wont try any alpha because they are worried that the game sucks.

 

Since alpha 16 is still available the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the old guard is upset that changes didn't go their way. Their game didn't change, their interests weren't represented in the new version but that doesn't mean the game sucks now. It means at most that there was no new content for them.

 

Saying the game is no fun now is not a valid argument. If alpha 17 was the only version available I'd understand completely but that's not the case.

 

I'm old guard and don't like several changes but I have loads of options to play what I want. I have access to all alphas, loads of mods and the ability to mod the game myself. Sure I'd love vanilla to be perfect for me but it isn't finished and they already are working on giving us options so we can all play the way we like.

 

Having access to A16.4 does not fix the problem with the direction of development at all.

Why should we be forced to play an out of date version just to un♥♥♥♥ things that should have been left alone in the first place?

 

There are good things in A17 that we actually want.

The stealth system is nice

The expanded vehicle selection is nice.

The graphics upgrades are nice.

The lack of having 100 corpses to clean up is nice.

 

The problem is, speaking as a trained psychologist, is they have taken all the reward out of the game and replaced it with mindless EXP grinding.

 

With LBD, if you wanted to level up your mining skills, you had to go mine.

Or if you wanted to be a better sniper, pistol guy, or knife guy, you had better get that type of weapon out and practice.

THEN you could get the appropriate perks after you invested in that play style.

That was rewarding!

 

Similarly, if you need schematics for a minibike (or whatever), you better get off your ass and go find a book store to loot. That is an incentive to explore, then you are rewarded when you finally find the thing you need.

 

Furthermore, basic things are locked behind bull♥♥♥♥/nonsensical perk progressions.

You want to be able to plant food?

Spend a perk point just to get seeds. Nothing else, just SEEDS! WTF!?

Want to at least get 2 plants from the harvest so you can replant?

Spend THREE more points! A total of Four points just to plant seeds and get a return. That is bull♥♥♥♥.

 

Let me make fertilizer again, make it worthwhile to go collect TURDS! That is hilarious, and oddly enough rewarding!

Need to dial it back? Make me find a fertilizer recipe, or have the fertilizer wear off after a week or something instead of putting it behind a stupid perk-wall.

 

Now, none of that matters. Just grind.

It does not matter if you never leave the immediate area around your base.

No reward for exploring, no reward for practicing a skill, just more exp grinding. It is bull♥♥♥♥.

 

With the A17 changes to the skill/recipe/reward system, THE GAME IS SIMPLY NOT FUN ANYMORE, and that overshadows all the other improvements they have worked so hard on implementing.

[iBane]

To each his own. I love the dungeon crawl POIs and the current ratio of them to basic buildings.

 

But to your point....if TFP was getting bored with the game they wouldn't have spent the time to convert and update around 70 POI's. Doing what they did shows the opposite. They love this game and want it to be the best it can be. For those who like lots of cluttered structures and blind corners it got a lot better than A16 which was in turn better than A15 as far as POI exploration is concerned.

 

Haven't made a new world in an update or two, but I think the dungeon POIs are a bit higher frequency than I'd choose...90% of my current world.