Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[Jugginator]

We're going to introduce some simple mods that you don't need a schematic for. But how hard is it to loot a book store? Those aren't very dangerous at all.

 

Not knocking or anything, as this is because I was on Survivalist on a high gamestage, but the bookstore I raided yesterday had 3 rad-wights, a cop, and a handful of ferals in it lmao. That was indeed dangerous haha. Good times, though.

 

I do agree with Wolfy on one thing, I'd prefer worse graphics with bigger hordes.

[WolfyBlah]

Its intended in the design of the game for more risk = more reward. Sorry you can't sit on your ass in a cave and come out 3 days later with the best gear the game has anymore. You have to go looting to get the best stuff or pay top dollar for it at a trader.

 

We're going to introduce some simple mods that you don't need a schematic for. But how hard is it to loot a book store? Those aren't very dangerous at all.

 

A16 bookstores maybe, loved looting those.

 

A17 every building is a chance to spawn way to many zombies around every blind corner and hiding in the rafters of every building. Is this zombie strain somthig to do with birds? Are they nesting up there or somthing.

 

We have not been able to go into a cave and make the best gear in the game since crafting recipes have been gated by exploration/level.

 

We used to have to go out and LOOK for those recipes, it was fun.

We used to go out and look for better quality items that were more effective, that was fun too. Now every shotgun is the exact same barring how many mod slots it has.

 

Mods do not replace weapons having actual depth beyond just how many other bits of ♥♥♥♥ you can stick to it. Finding a blue shotgun reciver on day 3 was a buzz, finding a mod to make it reload faster (and thus having s ♥♥♥♥ty reload speed without it) is not a buzz, its lame.

 

I did plenty of looting in the last alphas, i didnt sit in a cave, i spent my days out looting or building and my nights crafting or mining (sometimes built at night with running zombies).

 

So not only do you want to ♥♥♥♥ on people wanting to craft things by making them grind XP to get somthing they can just loot anyway, but you are specificly trying to force them to go out looting to get the best 'loot only' gear? Can you stop now? I like looting too i just dont want it to be the only way to play.

 

Iv been saying since a17 is punative to crafters since it launched: if you wanna craft somthing you gotta be weaker than someone who wants to loot it and be at a higher gamestage.

[stasis78]

MM did say new Vegas which was the only one worth playing. Amazing game. Don’t knock it

 

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Everyone always making mountains out of the mole hills around here

[xXBadDreamXx]

I've been playing 7 days a long time. I've been a salty mofo when things got changed that I didn't like. I'm gunna try and give my opinion here without a wall of text and be as positive as I can cause I see madmole is reading and responding and I appreciate that alot.

 

Alpha 17 made me stop playing 7 Days to Die because the game is tedious now. Zombies in this game are not good and you made the game 75% about killing zombies. People that like this game don't play it for the zombies. They play it for everything else and enjoy some zombie killing from time to time when they're bored. No other alpha has made me want to stop playing alltogether.

 

I'm not saying this to be negative. I'm just giving feedback. I know the pimps will do their magic and balance things and everything will be fine again.

[Jugginator]

Am I the only one who looked at the trailers/game description on Steam which hailed killing zombies / utlizing an open-world to gather resources to survive the zombies and thought that was a neat take on a zombie-killing game? Had no idea it was never meant to be about killing zombies and that zombies were just a minigame when you're bored. If so, that's false advertisement.

[xXBadDreamXx]

you can only kill so many zombies before it gets repetitive and boring. ive bonked and bashed and slashed and punched holes in about 20 thousand of them. i can assure you, zombie killing isnt what makes me like this game.

they can advertise the game as a unicorn adventure if they want. doesnt mean that what i get out of it when i play it

[Jugginator]

Yeah but you said the only people that like the game don't play it to kill zombies. I ramp up the difficulty to try to survive to kill the stronger, more massive hordes of em lol.

[xXBadDreamXx]

right. i get that. but the 7 days in between the horde needs to be filled with alot of other stuff to prepare...so if you gotta spend those 7 days bonking and bashing as much as you do on horde night it all kinda gets blah and tedious....i wanna gather stuff and build stuff and deal with the odd wandering horde or the few zombies i come across....i enjoy everything else then when horde night comes its fun and wild and scary...as it is now im getting a horde night every time i enter a poi

[BobTheBard]

Am I the only one who looked at the trailers/game description on Steam which hailed killing zombies / utlizing an open-world to gather resources to survive the zombies and thought that was a neat take on a zombie-killing game? Had no idea it was never meant to be about killing zombies and that zombies were just a minigame when you're bored. If so, that's false advertisement.

 

There are different takes on what a 'survival' game is. One is a 'survival is fighting' take, another is a 'survival is sustainability' take. In your first group you tend to have the raiders, nomads, and PvPers, the more aggressive playstyles who would rather take the fight to the enemy. In your second group you tend to have the builders, crafters, and base-creators, the more defensive playstyles who endure the hordes and carve out a piece of the wastes rather than fight the threat head-on. So from the first point of view killing zombies (and other players) is the point of the game like you said, but from the second killing zombies is actually a minigame (usually one on a seven-day timer). I happen to think both views are equally valid, but A17.0 caters a little too heavily to the former. Curious to see how 17.1 changes things to help out the latter group, since I've heard some things are coming.

[xXBadDreamXx]

great points BobTheBard thanks for helping make wat i was trying to say more clear

[thraka]

I truly wish you would stop selling yourself short and comparing yourself to fallout. Your game is much better.

 

As I've said before, yes, we can specialize in many things that will get us killed. If we went to live however, we must specialize in certain specific things. Yes it is about balance to a point, but you can only balance so much... ...the core aspects of survival have to be inherent in the player. I should be able to play any type of build and have an equal chance of survival. No amount of balance is going to make that happen.

 

You have a very special game, and every time you incorporate another games system into it, you lose some of that magic.

 

At any rate, you have made up your mind and I respect that, so we will just agree to disagree.

 

Guppy, I think you probably put your finger on the real issue for a lot of people, definitely for me. I was unable to really phrase exactly what was wrong until I saw this, and now I know. A17 takes away my player skill. The gap in fighting ability feels MUCH larger between noob and powered up. It used to be that even with sucky weapons, if you were good at fps, you could make headshots and mostly things were ok, maybe 2 or three head shots instead of one when you were leveled. So the game felt totally different, in that sure, you could get better guns, but the difference between a weak weapon coupled with low skill and a powerful weapon with high skill was maybe 2-4x. It feels now like it is a lot more.

 

Previoiusly, if you, as a player, were skilled, you could focus in building, mining, exploring, etc. Now, in starting game, headshots feel like body shots in previous alphas, so my ability to hit crits has been heavily nerfed, as has my ability to fight running backward, to circle strafe, etc. All of my personal FPS skills have been hobbled in the name of balance. It makes the game very tedious to me, and it feels like the DM is punishing me for beating his clever traps and dungeon design and suddenly all of the monsters I run into have extra hit points and armor.

 

That and stamina are pretty much the heart of the problem, and I agree, it is really fundamental. A17 goes very heavy toward simshooter. I don;t think the two philosophies (player skill versus character skill) can be easily reconciled without adding levels to the zombies and scaling them based on player level.

[xXBadDreamXx]

but its ok thraka cause theres so many guns to be found its like playing pubg!

[stasis78]

And.. everything everyone is complaining about is going to be changed. If anyone bothered to follow MM posts you would know that instead of continuing the same conversations from 90 other threads.

 

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Find a MM post. Click his profile. Bookmark it. Then read his responses before reposting the same ♥♥♥♥ over and over.

[xXBadDreamXx]

if people didnt post snarky comments that have nothing to do with the thread it might make it easier to find said madmole posts

[Randomdude]

I truly wish you would stop selling yourself short and comparing yourself to fallout. Your game is much better.

 

Hard to achieve your maximum potential when you keep measuring yourself against someone else.

[stasis78]

if people didnt post snarky comments that have nothing to do with the thread it might make it easier to find said madmole posts

 

No it was directed at you. You come in and claim your salty and thank MM for his time, yet! You don’t bother to go read his posts where he said what you complained about was being changed.

 

CFS

 

Then you go on to other threads and make snarky comments about random gen buildings collapsing.

 

LMFAO

[meganoth]

Crafters path to optimal weapon: hours of leveling before you can even make it, hours (and hours and hours) of looting to find rare items.

 

Or digging and crafting stuff that you then sell to the trader (remember Int is good for crafting AND barter). Buy weapon and mods and schematics, some more craft => optimal weapon

[xXBadDreamXx]

it was a joke stasis78. if you wanted to make a comment about something i posted in another thread why didnt you make it there?

[Ranzera]

I find it disappointing that Madmole seems to enthusiastically want to follow Fallout's path to mediocrity. This "give crafter's more exp" thing he keeps touting really feels hollow. It's a lame attempt at a band aid for the real problem. This progression feels hollow, unrewarding and boring.

 

The solutions you're coming up with don't even make any damn sense. People liked A16 progression. It had a slew of level gates and only had a little less than 2/3s of the SP required to max everything. And what's more, you really felt like you had choice in that system. People don't like A17 progression. The solutions? Lets make it faster, remove all the level gates and change nothing about the perk pidgeon holing. That'll surely work!

 

That's before we get into the metric ♥♥♥♥ ton of complexity and strategy that got removed from the game.

 

Gore blocks. Gone. A nuisance that gave you resources (how's everyone doing on glue btw? amirite?). You needed to plan for getting rid of them so you could lay new defenses/repair your base. A player that didn't like dealing with cleanup could build a compact kill zone so they'd mostly auto despawn. A player that liked the resources you got from them could optimize the other way.

 

Item Quality. For all intents and purposes, gone. Who cares about more durability and the transparently flawed "DYE = DMAGE!!11" mod system? This sounds like a bad Warhammer 30k joke. I hope we can paint our vehicles red too.

 

Bio gas. Gone for no apparent reason other than "♥♥♥♥ those guys."

 

Electric lights. Simple light is all that's left. Are you guys serious?

 

Recipe manuals. Gone. These things actually got me to go into Crack-a-books. Even more so in A15 and before, when they used to give you skill levels when you already knew the recipe. I can just buy the mods from traders, why bother with crafting them? This Alpha discourages crafting in general so hard I wonder why you even kept "Crafting" in your slogan.

 

Running. Yeah I don't know why this was touted as buffed. I could run more than a whole damn kilometer in A16 to get to where I was looting at the start of the day and repeat it on the way home at the end. Smart players made good use of Tea and Yucca for those stamina boosts. In this Alpha you really get the sense we've been mining for 5 years because we've all got the black lung. God help you if you have armor on cuz you'll be running slower too.

 

Combining items. Gone. This was a pretty neat way to get a leg up on progression if you were prepared to dump resources into it. To add insult to injury, we added a new crafting station that really should have just been the work bench. Also, why are concrete block recipes on the cement mixer and not the work bench? Am I going to shape these blocks with tools or a spinning barrel? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Progression. Yadda yadda hill to die on. Madmole, what makes sense about clubbing seals in order to learn how to farm or make steel? Other games that use levels to buy perks are all combat games that award exp for combat to buy combat perks. Some of those even force you to buy perks related to the activity you got the exp from (Skyrim). It really seems to me some conscious effort went into how to make this system make as little sense as possible. It's really frustrating when there used to be a very rich system that worked well. You didn't like how quickly people progressed in it.. did ya think maybe you could slow it down rather than scrap it altogether?????????

 

"This was always our vision." Bull. The amount of stuff added and then removed from this game makes that sound absurd on its face. I'm counting the days until you remove electricity, stamina, steel tools and any food other than gruel just to make a little simpler for what you think is appealing to the masses.

 

Edit to add: Forgot to mention the AI. It's a dumpster fire. The worst part? It goes into infinite loops just like A16 AI when you're in a party on blood moon.

[stupid]

I am pissed at A17 and i personally hate what it is but you know what. ♥♥♥♥ this and stop rewritting code all the time. Add content! And release a stable finished version. And let mods fix your messes! Every time you rewrite code, its harder for the mod authors to fix this mess anyway.

I was standing on top of a barn today trying to shoot a bear, it was spinning around like crazy, I thought how long have we been waiting for a fix on this mechanic? Over four years now? I guess they had more pressing matters like reskinning everything for the 4th time. I know "it's alpha" but I also have to draw the line somewhere and be honest with myself. Yes this is alpha, but a very problematic, disorganized, and confused alpha. This alpha is like a teenager going through its phases of what's cool. Ark was cool so A13 became like Ark. Then FO4 came out so it decided to be like FO4. Then when people expressed disapproval it said "I'm trying to pursue my dream, leave me alone" What's sad is that 7D might never realize is that it had it's own unique thing going, and was always cooler than the false idols it tried to be like.

[FranticDan]

We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.

 

In my opinion, the more slides/options that you give gamers, the more versatile your game will be for all the various play styles, it opens up more options for modders, and allows gamers to roleplay. For example, I'd love to pretend I'm a lone survivor in the walking dead universe, so having options to disable zombies to jump, dig and climb ladders would help with that immersion.

[Jugginator]

Idk about the blood moon frequency. Option to disable it for casuals but... kinda kills the 7 days to die theme *shrug* I guess I'd be okay with it lol. I'd prob switch for every night.

[OzHawkeye]

Idk about the blood moon frequency. Option to disable it for casuals but... kinda kills the 7 days to die theme *shrug* I guess I'd be okay with it lol. I'd prob switch for every night.

 

For sure, I wouldn't be turning it off, but if TFP makes it easily moddable, or even, as Madmole is saying, puts a menu slider in for it, it's gotta be a win (assuming it didn't consume too much Dev time) since it makes the game configurable to each individual players preference.

 

Also, I'd love to try playing a game with a Horde every night!... hehe

[manni44]

For sure, I wouldn't be turning it off, but if TFP makes it easily moddable, or even, as Madmole is saying, puts a menu slider in for it, it's gotta be a win (assuming it didn't consume too much Dev time) since it makes the game configurable to each individual players preference.

 

Also, I'd love to try playing a game with a Horde every night!... hehe

 

Day 1 Horde this will be fun

[w00kien00kie]

It's a very simple change if you'd like to try horde night every night!