Jump to content

Steam reviews - I kinda figured


hillbilly

Recommended Posts

All A16 perk system needed was a harsh diminishing return on LBD or even a temporary debuff to over learning, plus only enough points to max out a few locked perks, everyone can specialize on what they wanted and play whatever it is they deem fun in the game, and we wouldn't have this constant merry go round in the forums.

 

Unfortunately of late I'm leaning on the critical side of the community. I'm not one who mind A17 took a year, great new vehicles and weapon mods, new poi's bit repetitive but good addition, but I thought we'd be getting more challenging content, instead we got a huge character nerf that added more grind, please note grind not difficulty (albeit getting used to new mechanics was difficult at first):

 

+ harsher survival

- unlimited water, food everywhere, +- temp to all clothing is really silly, A16 hot and cold was annoying but wearing/taking off clothing made sense.

 

+ more challenging hunting where we track animals

- they spawn around us and literally walk into our paths, new doe is practically asking for an arrow in the head.

 

+ added Nightmare run

- they're slower than A16

 

+ Quests! Yes pls!!

- fetch, clear poi been doing since day1, buried treasure not bad but gets repetitive and the zombie spawn on locating treasure is just silly.

 

 

Fallout/skyrim, good games in their own right, gorgeous worlds, stories and quests, but keeping all the mods upto date and working have become a chore. I only have a couple hundred hours in those compared to thousands in 7D pre A17. Popular as they were they're dated games to follow by.

 

The sub perks under attribute gates was the last straw for me and made no sense when TFP say we can specialize a whole lot more. It's like losing an old friend seeing it drop down in steam library, yesterday, this week, this month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or digging and crafting stuff that you then sell to the trader (remember Int is good for crafting AND barter). Buy weapon and mods and schematics, some more craft => optimal weapon

 

Id view aquiring things from traders as another seperate thing, just because somewant wants to craft dosent mean they want to use traders, i personally never use them.

 

The issue raised was crafting an item being heavily gated vs finding it in loot/trader. To which you went 'you dont have to craft it, exploit trader instead'.

 

Edit:

Maybe the last 2 posters coule give actual reasons why they hated 15/16 and love 17 so much. Iv already explained in depth what i dont like about a17 and its not unreasonable nor am i alone in any of it.

Some people dont like the perk system.

Some dont like the POIs.

Some dont like zombies pathing around spikes.

Some dont like having a game as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Id view aquiring things from traders as another seperate thing, just because somewant wants to craft dosent mean they want to use traders, i personally never use them.

 

The issue raised was crafting an item being heavily gated vs finding it in loot/trader. To which you went 'you dont have to craft it, exploit trader instead'.

 

Edit:

Maybe the last 2 posters coule give actual reasons why they hated 15/16 and love 17 so much. Iv already explained in depth what i dont like about a17 and its not unreasonable nor am i alone in any of it.

Some people dont like the perk system.

Some dont like the POIs.

Some dont like zombies pathing around spikes.

Some dont like having a game as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle.

 

I've explained why I didn't like A15/A16 already a couple of times I think on this forum/thread. Let me copy-paste.

 

For me, LBD, or whatever you want to call it, was way less interesting and immersive than the current system.

 

You played the game, and you were constantly bombarded by messages saying; you reached level 21 with construction tools, you reached level 11 with shotguns. Bland. Boring. If I wanted to play Skyrim's system, I would go ams play skyrim. Most of the time I didnt even bother checking which level I was, or even spending points. Why not you ask? Because the game was too easy. It was snore-fest to the max.

 

Now, with the new system, i feel like I'm working towards some goals. And looking through the perks and deciding which one to pick is way, way more interesting and immersive than the previous mechanic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've explained why I didn't like A15/A16 already a couple of times I think on this forum/thread. Let me copy-paste.

 

For me, LBD, or whatever you want to call it, was way less interesting and immersive than the current system.

 

You played the game, and you were constantly bombarded by messages saying; you reached level 21 with construction tools, you reached level 11 with shotguns. Bland. Boring. If I wanted to play Skyrim's system, I would go ams play skyrim. Most of the time I didnt even bother checking which level I was, or even spending points. Why not you ask? Because the game was too easy. It was snore-fest to the max.

 

Now, with the new system, i feel like I'm working towards some goals. And looking through the perks and deciding which one to pick is way, way more interesting and immersive than the previous mechanic.

 

Looking trough perks and choosing what to take WAS the previoud mechanic as well, that didnt really change.

 

Its flat out not more immmersive eaither, immersive typicaly means it mirrors real life (realism). This new system falls vastly shorter in that regard, we went from actually using a skill to get better at it to just pressing a level up button.

 

The character went from a bunch of exponential curves representing a number of skills to a single XP curve. This blows, give me the deeper more complex system anyday.

 

As far as more intresting, its the exact same as a16 but with part of it stripped away (LBD)

 

Id argue that having less skills and a single player level is a hell of a lot more bland and boring.

 

Difficulty has nothing to do with the perk system being dumber.

This alpha is the easiest to date.

>can take perks that turn survival aspects of the game trivial (food, tempreture, ilness, auto HP recovery)

This is harder? How?

 

-

Would it be fair to say you want player level and perks to be the primary gameplay element?

A16 was much more of a supporting system, most recipes were found out in the world as loot with a few also being level gated.

 

You say 'if i wanted to play skyrims leveling system id go play skrim'

I say 'if i wanted to play fallouts leveling system id go play fallout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking trough perks and choosing what to take WAS the previoud mechanic as well, that didnt really change.

 

Yeah like I don't understand that argument at all lol. Looking through skills and deciding which to pick, and working toward goals was IN A16 in addition to LBD. Don't get me wrong, A17 is still fun, I just don't get some of you A17 fanboys...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All A16 perk system needed was a harsh diminishing return on LBD or even a temporary debuff to over learning, plus only enough points to max out a few locked perks, everyone can specialize on what they wanted and play whatever it is they deem fun in the game, and we wouldn't have this constant merry go round in the forums.

 

Unfortunately of late I'm leaning on the critical side of the community. I'm not one who mind A17 took a year, great new vehicles and weapon mods, new poi's bit repetitive but good addition, but I thought we'd be getting more challenging content, instead we got a huge character nerf that added more grind, please note grind not difficulty (albeit getting used to new mechanics was difficult at first):

 

+ harsher survival

- unlimited water, food everywhere, +- temp to all clothing is really silly, A16 hot and cold was annoying but wearing/taking off clothing made sense.

 

+ more challenging hunting where we track animals

- they spawn around us and literally walk into our paths, new doe is practically asking for an arrow in the head.

 

+ added Nightmare run

- they're slower than A16

 

+ Quests! Yes pls!!

- fetch, clear poi been doing since day1, buried treasure not bad but gets repetitive and the zombie spawn on locating treasure is just silly.

 

 

Fallout/skyrim, good games in their own right, gorgeous worlds, stories and quests, but keeping all the mods upto date and working have become a chore. I only have a couple hundred hours in those compared to thousands in 7D pre A17. Popular as they were they're dated games to follow by.

 

The sub perks under attribute gates was the last straw for me and made no sense when TFP say we can specialize a whole lot more. It's like losing an old friend seeing it drop down in steam library, yesterday, this week, this month.

 

I disagree, game difficulty raised a lot. Not only does Steam launch dedicated server instead of the game itself, the performance got worse so it's difficult to get it going properly.

 

 

Now in all seriousness, I don't think copy-pasting the old skills tree and putting that all behind a new set of gates is the way to go. Game didn't change and it takes even longer to get the must-have perks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's just it. It IS fun. Just not for you. You know what I find boring? Traders. To me they are a game crutch and one of the most uninteresting aspects of this game. But you love them. I can't fathom why.

 

And all of that is ok. Trust me when I say in my circles I know more people who like the first 5 days way more than anything after. In your circles the trader is probably a very important component to the game. Its just about what you get out of it when you play.

 

TFP have the hard task of pleasing both crowds. But its usually not a good idea to say things like anyone and all, because generalized sweeping statemnts usually come back to bite you, as i have learned myself first hand :)

 

Yea, I get that. I was just asking for him to explain what makes getting 1 peice of iron every 4 hits in a boulder fun? What makes using iron tools for 34 hours game time fun? That one was for you 😉

 

I guess there's really no way to explain why you find that mind numbing slow gameplay fun. I guess I didnt really expect an answer. Just a difference of opinion. I respect it, even if I think your crazy lol.

 

I'd prefer a fair amount of resources and exp for my time. Then give me tougher zombies to make the game difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, I get that. I was just asking for him to explain what makes getting 1 peice of iron every 4 hits in a boulder fun? What makes using iron tools for 34 hours game time fun? That one was for you ��

 

I guess there's really no way to explain why you find that mind numbing slow gameplay fun. I guess I didnt really expect an answer. Just a difference of opinion. I respect it, even if I think your crazy lol.

 

I'd prefer a fair amount of resources and exp for my time. Then give me tougher zombies to make the game difficult.

 

I've learned that some players are simply masochistic, and the more they suffer, the more fun they have at a game. If you gave them 1 piece of iron for 20 whole boulders they would melt from satisfaction. Also there is a difference between players who like the goal and players who like the road to the goal. Road to the goal usually represents grind and the more of it, the better for these folks, whereas the others get frustrated to hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No level Gates so I would not be hampered by tfp stupidity, and 10x the biome spawns so that there were actual threats early game. Plus a variety of other things that made early game more challenging in a fun way.

 

Moderate (mostly) iron armor, but the real issue boiled down to two things.

 

1) Melee being totally ineffective against rad zombies, which forced you to

 

2). Base building is a week long chore when they can tear through anything very quickly.

 

I'm building an ai cheese base away from the main horde base, in hopes I'm able to actually have fun playing the subsequent weeks.

 

Or I suppose I could just wait horde night out again on another vanilla poi, but that's a day wasted just clearing it, and no real sense of accomplishment.

 

...in every build, after playing, I'm able to find the secret sauce that makes early, mid, and late game FUN, and mod appropriately.

 

I got it for early game, but unfortunately the game skipped mid and went straight to late.

 

Ok the issue is with melee vs zombies. Are you talking about poi clearing or horde night? What's your level and what day are you on? What your day setting at?

 

Maybe you leveled too fast with the 10x biome spawns. In assuming that means more zombies.

 

Either way your server is so unbalievabley modded, or so it seems, I'm not sure it's the base games fault? Maby adjust the mods on the, is it s server? Maybe more powerful str melee options. Can you mod in new melee perks? That could be cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jax:

 

See his streams and you know why fast. When you have 3 or 4 people finding traders in MP, marking down what trader has a forge, workbench, CI, ... and then do all the quests for quick rewards in a group. This is why Kage loves the traders, because its a build in game cheat.

 

Without using the traders / trader quests / trader tools, A17 is way more harder and time consuming. And harder is less fun to stream because nobody wants to watch Kage hit a rock for 5 hours with his weak stone tools, his non existing stamina etc.

 

For him playing without traders will cost him viewers because of the mega grind. And that in turn cost him money. So its not hard to understand why he loves traders. Its a soft way to cheat the game early mega grind.

 

There is some truth to this. But its not totally about views. Hitting boulders for hours for very little return is boring to most people. Yea I'll say it. It's not a challenge and it's not fun. I would not want to do it even if I didn't stream.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know that's just because you absolutely want to start digging and mining from your first steps in the game, right ? I never start doing those things before I have found / craft / bought good tools and upgrade the necessary perks. So I'm not masochist : just organized in my priorities. But the good thing is TFP listened to you and in the next version you'll be able to make holes and gain xp as soon as you launch your game. What a beautiful world ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always got the impression that the reason kage likes the traders so much is that they allow you to buy advanced items (steel, tools, weapons) long before you can craft them.

Is it really that he likes he traders or is that getting a steel pick early makes mining enjoyable instead of tediously slow like it is with the stoneaxe/iron pick?

 

As much as i love kages videos (he introduced quite a few of us to the game) he *has* to like whatever crap the developers decide. He cant stop playing 7days if he dosent like crafting timers, because its part of his income and his channel would be tiny without 7days to die.

 

Someone doesn't watch my videos lol. My current lp I didnt buy any iron tools. I think I found and iron hoe with +69 to moral, which was awesome lol. But the rest I made.

 

Also I basicly stopped playing 7 dtd during the summer. Did like 2 or 3 videos a week. They were getting almost no views. I started playing mist. Yea, had my best month in years. I always thought my channel would die without 7 days. But apparently that's not the case. Fear the Night is doing great as well.

 

Sorry for off topic but he brought it up 😁

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Does he make $$ youtubing? Sure. But you shouldn't doubt his enjoyment of the game...

 

You know how you can tell if i dont like a game? I dont play it. I was jamming on this game for 5 alphas before anyone even knew who I was lol.

 

Best survival game ever made. Fact!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've learned that some players are simply masochistic, and the more they suffer, the more fun they have at a game. If you gave them 1 piece of iron for 20 whole boulders they would melt from satisfaction. Also there is a difference between players who like the goal and players who like the road to the goal. Road to the goal usually represents grind and the more of it, the better for these folks, whereas the others get frustrated to hell.

 

Yeah some people like to be challenged, others want everything handed to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.

 

This is amazing mm! Omfg I cant wait. Will this be a17 or 18? I cant wait. I'd be playing atlas right now if I could change those awful game settings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know that's it's just because you absolutely want to start digging and mining from your first steps in the game, right ? I never start doing those things before I have found / craft / bought good tools and upgrade the necessary perks. So I'm not masochist : just organized in my priorities. But the good thing is TFP listened to you and in the next version you'll be able to make holes and gain xp as soon as you launch your game. What a beautiful world ;)

 

People want to actualy break voxels in this voxel game? Shocker.

 

Why should they have to invest X hours in an XP system before one of the core gameplay features dosent feel like a chore?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didnt question his enjoyment of the game.

 

I questioned wether or not he likes traders as an actual mechanic or because it allows him to skip past some of TFPs more ♥♥♥♥ty developement and balance decisions. (Level gates)

 

I dont mind the level gates. Take all the iron tools and stuff out of the trader and if still love them.

 

I think your thinking of past seasons. I hated rng, not lvl gates. Now if I put in the work I'm guaranteed to get my reward. That's how it should work. With rng you put in the work and maybe get what you need. Back then I was all about that trader mini bike book lol.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I would normally say "excellent news", but this basically means people would be playing different games...

 

...you used to be able to play differently in the same game on the same server.

 

That was your game's magic sauce.

 

I dont see how those settings are any different than you modding the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People want to actualy break voxels in this voxel game? Shocker.

 

Why should they have to invest X hours in an XP system before one of the core gameplay features dosent feel like a chore?

But I do like to break voxels ! Just not in a compulsive and exclusive way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah some people like to be challenged, others want everything handed to them.

 

Tedium (taking longer to break blocks and getting less resouces) is not challange.

 

Its not about wanting things handing to them, it's about wanting core gameplay mechanics to balanced and fun.

Right now (and in a16) about halfway through the progression is where the game stops feeling like a chore and starts feeling enjoyable again, make this the baseline instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why can't you get out there and tank with all the heavy armor perks and a sledge or fireaxe? You only take 10% damage. I fell out of my base a few times before release and just back pedaled and axed in the face and wiped out a whole blood moon horde that way. I'm playing a legit long term game so I will be tweaking things as I go, but so far I haven't seen anything too punishing. If you took some grandpa's moonshine, I think you could do some mass damage with melee on a blood moon. I think we stop regen if you hit something, so as long as you keep hitting it, it should die. But I've never faced on yet, so they could be OP, I have no idea.

 

Major modder server. Please correct me guppy if I'm wrong. But please dont make adjustments based off modded servers.

 

Again please correct me if I'm missing something here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone doesn't watch my videos lol. My current lp I didnt buy any iron tools. I think I found and iron hoe with +69 to moral, which was awesome lol. But the rest I made.

 

Also I basicly stopped playing 7 dtd during the summer. Did like 2 or 3 videos a week. They were getting almost no views. I started playing mist. Yea, had my best month in years. I always thought my channel would die without 7 days. But apparently that's not the case. Fear the Night is doing great as well.

 

Sorry for off topic but he brought it up 😁

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

You know how you can tell if i dont like a game? I dont play it. I was jamming on this game for 5 alphas before anyone even knew how I was lol.

 

Best survival game ever made. Fact!

 

Its true that i dont watch your videos anymore, the style has changed over the years and that put me off (used to view you as just a knowladgeable player teaching the game, more recently its stuff like screamig 'HYYYYPE' at the start of videos... sorry but im not the target audiance for that.

 

Not saying dont do this anymore, if its what works for you thats great, its just... more somthing my younger family members would watch than somthing i would.

 

So you didn't abuse the trader in this most recent alpha: the question still stands, are they a good game mechanic on thier own or is progression skips (eg getting steel before you can make it) the *only* reason you like the traders?

-Edit: kage answered this above

 

As far as other games go, been gald to see you branching out over the last few years, i wont watch mist or rust or ark or whatever else because the games themseleves dont appeal to me, but if its helping your channel grow thats great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...