How do you like A17 experimental?

[joeevaristo]

All the more reason perks > rng

 

Yes! I greatly prefer perks over RNG. My group found it too grindy and obnoxious when we'd have to hunt for minibike books and an auger. It was the least enjoyable part of the game for us.

 

 

Man, I feel the exact opposite. (and that is OK) I LOVED searching for those items. I found SOOOOO many things in random gen worlds specifically because I was out looking for the minibike book or auger parts/schematics. I found the search to be a core element of the game. To each their own though.

 

EDIT: bold didn't work

 

My group each had our own unique niche. I was the architect, we had a farmer, a crafter, a looter, an explorer, a hunter, and a couple people who liked combat. I don't think any of us really liked being at the mercy of RNG to have access to game features.

 

Our last game reached ~day 130. We only stopped when we heard A17e was imminent, over the summer. A bit prematurely. Even though a few of us were high level and had a lot of "stuff," we brought in some noobs and started branching off into our own areas. It was fun, for us, to create a central hub and then see what each of us could come up with on our own. We played very...Minecrafty? Which is what I love about 7D2D; it's an adult Minecraft.

 

 

Also, I wonder how many people actually use the 30 minute magazines, or whatever they're called. I either use them immediately to get them out of my inventory, scrap them for paper, or take to the trader if it's not too much of a hassle lol

 

I don't use them at all. In any of the games I play, I'm just generally not a fan of temporary buffs. I find it clutters my inventory with things that are of limited use.

[HungryZombie]

I was torn between "like it" and "love it", so I decided to be generous and go for the love option.

 

My main complaint at the moment - and this is something that I think they're already addressing - is that zombies give you far too much XP so clearing a couple of POIs can push your level (and therefore gamestage) up too quickly.

 

There are other things I don't like of course, such as the bigger emphasis on traders and quests, but that's down to personal preference (and shh... don't tell Roland, but I'm already getting used to them).

 

This is a doulbe-edged sword. On one hand you have those complaining killing zombies levels them too quickly which makes the game stage excessive. On the other hand you have people complaining it takes way too long to get to lvl 20 which is the gate for the forge. Lowering zombie XP is going to make the grind to 20 all the more difficult.

 

Interesting dilemma.

[Ghostlight]

I had everything I cared about. If you do too then my point was we could get everything we cared about really early in alpha 16.

 

My point is slightly different then....that in A17 you WILL get everything there is to possibly get in the entire game, at top tier quality, and in every single play-through to boot. If "everything you care about" is a subset of this, well you're going to get it waaaay earlier than my day 30 example.

[Ghostlight]

But yes, if you killed every single zombie you saw you rushed to lvl 100.

 

Wouldn't rushing to 100 mean ONLY hunting and killing zombies and sitting on POI roofs during horde night? I mean I hit level 100 on day 30, true; yet I also have a magnificent Steel fortress, 4 stories high, equipped with 7 Blade Traps per side, 3 gun turrets per side, completely wired electric fences on all sides, and motion sensors controlling the entire thing automatically. All mod cons. [And for the record, I believe there is a BUG in the structural integrity algorithm in A17 because the main structure of my base actually collapsed on the first build attempt in a way I cannot explain, and I lost a ton of concrete and Iron Bars - so I have actually built this thing TWICE in 30 days (minus the electrics).]

 

In summary, it's not like I have been skimping on the building and gathering just to kill zombies. I have been playing the way I played every alpha before this (other than killing every zombie I saw).

 

And by "killing every zombie I saw", I mean the following little changes to my approach....

 

1) If I was driving anywhere at all and I saw a zombie, I'd stop and Sniper it

2) If I was out mining and there was a distant zombie that was in no way menacing me, I'd Sniper it

3) If Screamers came, I'd let them live longer than usual and just sniper down their hordes, and yes I often deliberately let them live to mass kill several mini-hordes. But this was mostly at night when I had nothing else to do, and it was totally safe to do this.

 

Only (3) represents a truly different play style to previous alphas.

[SnowDog1942]

This is a doulbe-edged sword. On one hand you have those complaining killing zombies levels them too quickly which makes the game stage excessive. On the other hand you have people complaining it takes way too long to get to lvl 20 which is the gate for the forge. Lowering zombie XP is going to make the grind to 20 all the more difficult.

 

Interesting dilemma.

 

You can nerf the exp and lower some level gates accordingly

[Hemfive]

I usually keep them and bring them to sell on my next trader run. I'll use them if I need to free up backpack space though. The only one I've specifically used for it's intended purpose so far is the one that gives you the bartering buff at the trader.

 

They are, by far, the most useless thing ever introduced in this game.

 

A suggestion should be to give the player some experience when read.

[Ghostlight]

They are, by far, the most useless thing ever introduced in this game.

 

A suggestion should be to give the player some experience when read.

 

Or make them rarer but the buff they convey is permanent or lasts a few days, or (and this would be my suggestion)....

 

Make their buff work even the if the player is capped by gating on the appropriate stats. The fact I can read these magazines and they will do NOTHING if the stat is currently maxed out because of level gating makes them especially useless

[lazyknob]

As far as perk allocations go, I would suggest re-exploring the A15 point system (perks can remain as is) where you gain a certain number of points every level and more points every (what was it 10?) levels and some perks costing more.

 

So instead of sitting around with points and nowhere to place them, remove the level gating and award bonus points every 5 or 10 levels along with the obligatory 'you leveled up, here's a point' when you CAN use them where you need them. Now... don't be silly and say there's always a perk to put points into.. that's just being daft and ignoring the fact that.. there are perks people wouldn't bother with till much later in the game.

 

Some might say... level gating is gone but you're still restricted in the same way. I say, sometimes it's how it's sold. You don't have a bunch of points sitting around useless. Not having enough points is different from useless points.

[Viktoriusiii]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26030[/ATTACH]

 

Can we have something like this?

 

Edit - erm that showing a bit small

Link to bigger version https://ibb.co/5Bs8Q64

 

THIS IS AWESOME!!! This would solve SO MANY ISSUES!!!!

If they would implement this into a server search function, I would be willing to overlook certain parts of this alpha and praise them again!

[Kage848]

Ghostlight

 

What are you days set to? And what are the rest of your settings?

[lazyknob]

THIS IS AWESOME!!! This would solve SO MANY ISSUES!!!!

If they would implement this into a server search function, I would be willing to overlook certain parts of this alpha and praise them again!

 

I raised something similar to this a long while ago.

 

This is basically having a GUI for all the .xml functions. The answer I got was basically, because the spreadsheet data changes so often, the possibility of this happening isn't going to happen till things are a little more 'finalized'.

[Exxodous]

Ghostlight

 

What are you days set to? And what are the rest of your settings?

 

He's going to tell you 50 min days and insane....

[HungryZombie]

I explore to explore all the time and love to find POIs, but the "new and shiny" wears off pretty quick. I explore for loot, I honestly thought that was the point lol. But that is going to the wayside with perks as well. You really don't have to find anything anymore because you can just kill "X" amount of zombies and make it now. Only thing worth really searching for are beakers to make a chem station. The quests are really meh to me, and that's not a bad thing, just my opinion. I think they were a great addition, just not something I really care for.

 

If you don't search and loot how do you:

 

Get food?

 

Get drinks?

 

Get stuff to make bandages and first aid kits?

 

Find pills to heal yourself?

 

Find weapon mods?

 

Find schematics?

[vonstorm]

I raised something similar to this a long while ago.

 

This is basically having a GUI for all the .xml functions. The answer I got was basically, because the spreadsheet data changes so often, the possibility of this happening isn't going to happen till things are a little more 'finalized'.

 

Yes but finding the location of some constants each alpha shouldn't be that hard. If it doesnt make it hopefully someone will mod it, but it would be nice if it was built in for server searches etc.

 

btw - forgot to add a default button

[PoppaTot]

If you don't search and loot how do you:

 

Get food?

 

Get drinks?

 

Get stuff to make bandages and first aid kits?

 

Find pills to heal yourself?

 

Find weapon mods?

 

Find schematics?

 

My response literally says "I explore for loot" lmao

 

Get Food? : easily found while searching for loot

Get Drinks? : easily found while searching for loot

Get stuff to make bandages and first aid kits? : easily found while searching for loot

Find pills to heal yourself? : easily found while searching for loot

Find weapon mods? : this is literally "loot"

Find schematics? : this is literally "loot"

 

That all seemed pretty self-explanatory?....

[Krougal]

Wouldn't rushing to 100 mean ONLY hunting and killing zombies and sitting on POI roofs during horde night? I mean I hit level 100 on day 30, true; yet I also have a magnificent Steel fortress, 4 stories high, equipped with 7 Blade Traps per side, 3 gun turrets per side, completely wired electric fences on all sides, and motion sensors controlling the entire thing automatically. All mod cons. [And for the record, I believe there is a BUG in the structural integrity algorithm in A17 because the main structure of my base actually collapsed on the first build attempt in a way I cannot explain, and I lost a ton of concrete and Iron Bars - so I have actually built this thing TWICE in 30 days (minus the electrics).]

 

In summary, it's not like I have been skimping on the building and gathering just to kill zombies. I have been playing the way I played every alpha before this (other than killing every zombie I saw).

 

And by "killing every zombie I saw", I mean the following little changes to my approach....

 

1) If I was driving anywhere at all and I saw a zombie, I'd stop and Sniper it

2) If I was out mining and there was a distant zombie that was in no way menacing me, I'd Sniper it

3) If Screamers came, I'd let them live longer than usual and just sniper down their hordes, and yes I often deliberately let them live to mass kill several mini-hordes. But this was mostly at night when I had nothing else to do, and it was totally safe to do this.

 

Only (3) represents a truly different play style to previous alphas.

 

30 days, that is 30 hours. As sandbox gamers we are spoiled, and as serious gamers with a lot of time to play we have a skewed sense of time investment. Many AAA games if I got 30 hours out of them before I shelved them I considered myself lucky. To a casual 30 hours is a lot of playtime. Even to me, who unless I have some looming deadline and need to work a lot of OT has 30+ hours a week to game, that's still a significant investment of time into 1 game (yes, I said it, I'm unfaithful, I play other games...it's not that I don't love you 7DTD, you just can't satisfy all my needs!). Like I brought up to someone griping about being "done" by day 50 on another thread, how many hours should it take for one to unlock the entire experience?

 

As far as perk allocations go, I would suggest re-exploring the A15 point system (perks can remain as is) where you gain a certain number of points every level and more points every (what was it 10?) levels and some perks costing more.

 

So instead of sitting around with points and nowhere to place them, remove the level gating and award bonus points every 5 or 10 levels along with the obligatory 'you leveled up, here's a point' when you CAN use them where you need them. Now... don't be silly and say there's always a perk to put points into.. that's just being daft and ignoring the fact that.. there are perks people wouldn't bother with till much later in the game.

 

Some might say... level gating is gone but you're still restricted in the same way. I say, sometimes it's how it's sold. You don't have a bunch of points sitting around useless. Not having enough points is different from useless points.

 

How can you say there's nothing to spend points on? If all else fails the stats are all useful. Who doesn't need more health or stamina? One could argue that one could ignore strength or perception, like as a ranged player I can ignore strength tree to a degree (MP especially where one can ignore certain tasks; I do all the crafting but I got 3 other guys to do diggy diggy hole) but still the extra damage when I do need to melee, and being able to get another level of packmule I don't consider it a waste. The only time I don't spend points is when I am close to a level gate, so I can get a jump on new crafting skills.

 

If there were no level gates then sure I would min-max and beeline for certain skills, and of course MP it would be even easier to do so. Would it make my gameplay experience any better? Probably not. I haven't poked through the XMLs for A17 but I imagine it's trivial to remove the level gates, 5 entries - each ability, if you want to remove ability gates then find/replace is a thing, so still trivial. I'm surprised the haters haven't done it yet.

 

Now A16 there was plenty of times I had nothing to spend points on since I was waiting for the next gate to open before I could get the next perk I wanted.

 

It amuses me to no end the people crying how one leveling/skill/perk system restricts their freedom more than another when to me ALL of them restrict my freedom. A10 (skills were A11 right?) you just jumped in and started playing. Total freedom. It was amazing! If the game ♥♥♥♥ed up and you had to restart or you just wanted to try something different, at least you didn't have to start grinding out XP again. Needing to freshstart because a patch changed worldgen, no big deal. Yeah, I lose my stuff and whatever I built but getting the stuff and building was the fun.

 

Now consoling and/or modding yourself to max skills is easy enough to bypass the whole thing, and I have done it, but it is not quite the same experience since it throws the balance out the window. So there's a balance between what we were gimped away so we could earn those abilities back to where it's extra abilities.

 

I'm also finding with the new perk & gating system adds an element of strategy, it's subtle, too subtle for many people, but it's there.

[HungryZombie]

Or make them rarer but the buff they convey is permanent or lasts a few days, or (and this would be my suggestion)....

 

Make their buff work even the if the player is capped by gating on the appropriate stats. The fact I can read these magazines and they will do NOTHING if the stat is currently maxed out because of level gating makes them especially useless

 

Are they useless still if you get the death penalty?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

My response literally says "I explore for loot" lmao

 

Get Food? : easily found while searching for loot

Get Drinks? : easily found while searching for loot

Get stuff to make bandages and first aid kits? : easily found while searching for loot

Find pills to heal yourself? : easily found while searching for loot

Find weapon mods? : this is literally "loot"

Find schematics? : this is literally "loot"

 

That all seemed pretty self-explanatory?....

 

I must have misunderstood your point then. I thought you meant you normally search for loot but with the perk system you can perk out now and not have any reason to search POI's.

 

To which my question then followed that if you could perk everything how do you find all that stuff.

[joeevaristo]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26030[/ATTACH]

 

Can we have something like this?

 

Edit - erm that showing a bit small

Link to bigger version https://ibb.co/5Bs8Q64

 

I'd LOVE something like that, with only one addition: a death penalty slider between 0 and 60, too. Otherwise, it looks like all of the major settings I'd want to adjust on the fly.

[PoppaTot]

I must have misunderstood your point then. I thought you meant you normally search for loot but with the perk system you can perk out now and not have any reason to search POI's.

 

To which my question then followed that if you could perk everything how do you find all that stuff.

 

All good You can perk into things that make food and water a real moot point though. I live in the snow biome as well..... infinite water with snow everywhere. Also, I do believe the infinite water exploit still works as well.

[Kam R.]

If you don't search and loot how do you:

 

Get food?

 

Farming and hunting animals.

 

Get drinks?

 

Cooking water or snow.

 

Get stuff to make bandages and first aid kits?

 

Cotton, cotton farm. Draw your own blood. Make grain alcohol.

 

Find pills to heal yourself?

 

Trash piles.

 

Find weapon mods?

 

[shrug] no need to go anywhere inside. several POI allow you to just loot weapons "from the side" without ever entering them or waking Zs.

 

Find schematics?

never needed a schematic so far.

 

 

Basically you can rather quickly get to a point where you don't have to enter a POI ever again. I can see PoppaTots' point here. There is barely anything special loot wise you have to risk your A for. So many cool new locations, but I only visit them for the sake of having visited them. I hope to see a change there in the future where

1. Specific high end loot is ONLY found in specific, hard POI and in hard to reach places you have to either fight for or be really good at sneaking.

2. Quests will take you on special missions related to special POI. (Example: Repair a powerplant to restore electricity to a town or provide a trader settlement with it.)

[Krougal]

All good You can perk into things that make food and water a real moot point though. I live in the snow biome as well..... infinite water with snow everywhere. Also, I do believe the infinite water exploit still works as well.

 

Water is only an early game problem (as it should be really, I don't want to spend all game worrying the 3 basic needs...I mean that would be a TRUE survival game, but it wouldn't be fun). Gamz4kicks did infinite water, so it still exists.

Even if it was removed, much as I prefer a water source in/near my base, if there isn't 1 convenient and I can't be arsed to bring buckets of water in - pretty damn easy to crank out glass jars by the hundreds and just fill them all at once every few days.

[PoppaTot]

Water is only an early game problem. Gamz4kicks did infinite water, so it still exists.

Even if it was removed, much as I prefer a water source in/near my base, if there isn't 1 convenient and I can't be arsed to bring buckets of water in - pretty damn easy to crank out glass jars by the hundreds and just fill them all at once every few days.

 

Yeah, I never use infinite water anymore. So easy to find a POI with bullet proof glass and spend like 3 in game hours just harvesting it to put in the forge. BAM: 500+ jars, then just go fill up. Rinse/repeat as needed.

[vonstorm]

Yeah, I never use infinite water anymore. So easy to find a POI with bullet proof glass and spend like 3 in game hours just harvesting it to put in the forge. BAM: 500+ jars, then just go fill up. Rinse/repeat as needed.

 

The problem with water and water storage is that it is bulky. In game to make it more of a hassle, lower the stack size of bottles. Water should be somewhat of an issue for someone that has built a base without considering a source. Add a vehicle mod - water tank - that should ease it up if needed. Also add a water tank placeable that fills when it rains.

[Ghostlight]

Ghostlight

 

What are you days set to? And what are the rest of your settings?

 

90 mins, everything else default I believe, except max difficulty. Max difficulty was only set halfway through I admit (once the OP feeling began to surface). No way I could handle max in the first week or two as I loathe bullet sponge enemies as a design.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

30 days, that is 30 hours. As sandbox gamers we are spoiled, and as serious gamers with a lot of time to play we have a skewed sense of time investment. Many AAA games if I got 30 hours out of them before I shelved them I considered myself lucky.

 

I get that, but I'm used to it being day 100 before I get to the power level I got to on day 30.

[SnowDog1942]

I play on carebear settings untill im all powerful - and this game is over too quick and is too easy!