How do you like A17 experimental?

[secateurs]

There's a lot to like but a lot of stuff is broken and I'm unsure of what direction the devs are aiming for.

[Viktoriusiii]

I don’t see how this video is going to help the devs as they are already doing what the video suggests. They didn’t think it was fun to spamcraft thousands of stone axes, jump on cacti, spam bandages, or run back and forth at night. So they removed the game incentives to do so. The devs also didn’t think it was fun to have concrete and steel so early in the game so they delayed when players could obtain it. The problem is not reward vs punishment but that the devs have a very different view then you do about the funnest way to play the game. If anything, based on the criticism in the forums, the devs have been too successful in following the suggested practices in the video.

You basically refuted your own statement. (did you even watch the video?)

but that the devs have a very different view then you do about the funnest way to play the game.

And instead of LETTING players have the fun they want and giving us options to avoid it (like A16 did with skillpoints ON TOP of learning by doing (btw spamcrafting was A15 not 16) and balancing it, so that there was no incentive for spamcrafting (ive given so many examples... like timebased skillxp, incremental xp so that lateron you need 500 stoneaxes but only one steelpickaxe and stuff like that) they COMPLETLY REMOVED the system a lot of players were having fun with and said "here is what WE think you should have fun with! Thats how you play the game! And if you had fun otherwise you are WRONG!!!!"

 

We get punished for liking a different playstyle instead of rewarding a playstyle more that THEY would like. (for example for the basedwellers... for every zombie killed on bloodmoon, the gamestage decreases! You can still build underground and be safe, but if you went out and fought, pois would suddenly not hold only radiated cops anymore)

Instead its "you got a forge too early!" *BAM* now you need to be lvl 20 or live in a ♥♥♥♥ty poi

What? You want the packmule 5 where you need 10 strength but have nothing else in looting or fighting so you are vulnerable? NO! *BAM* now you need to be level 100 to get it!

 

THIS is what the video says (when it talks about the turnlimits and the wow experiment). If the devs have another idea, they need to find a way to convince the player, that the other way is more fun, without disallowing/punishing him for NOT playing a certain way.

 

@OzHawkeye:

does that work without the playlist? Because noone else seems to have trouble with it o_o

[OzHawkeye]

@OzHawkeye:

does that work without the playlist? Because noone else seems to have trouble with it o_o

 

Working now. Watching it.

[OzHawkeye]

@OzHawkeye:

does that work without the playlist? Because noone else seems to have trouble with it o_o

 

Ok Viktoriusiii,

 

So, I've watched the video now. I can more or less agree with most, but definitely not all, of what the presenter said. There's two issues I guess that strike me most about A17's release:

 

1) The some people expect they can be as rude as hell about their complaints and, in complete defiance of basic human nature, expect that the message they're trying to convey won't be lost in the tone in which they conveyed it. If people have problems with certain game mechanics and want to have a chance of them getting addressed, then they should really want to put those concerns with a modicum of politeness and civility so that the feedback is what gets the attention not the method of it's delivery.

 

Not everyone with complaints is doing this, but some sure as hell are.

 

2) Three people have, so far, voted A17 as essentially perfect. The other 98.66% of respondents so far, believe there's (at least) some things with A17 they'd rather see improved/removed/added/changed. I'm one of the 97.78% that are more or less in the middle (I'm also excluding those that say they hate everything about A17). In fact, my favourite Alpha is Alpha 10.

 

Why?

 

Because it was the best Alpha for builders in my opinion, and while I love fighitn' Zeek, looting and even farming, I also like to build. In A10 you could define custom materials with increased movement speed, so I introduced into the MP server I ran with my friends a "highway" material that increased the players run speed by 500%. Since it also worked for Zombies to, we built elevated highways (or subway tunnels) all over the place, stretching entire zones (2000m wide in A10), from city to city, town to town, and used them, in the absence of vehicles, to get around the map quickly.

 

A11 removed that ability.

 

Took it out of the power of XML's and I couldn't figure out a DLL edit that would restore it either, so with A11, I lost a big "positive". I did make posts about it, but never did throw away all my gruntles about it either.

 

So, while I wait for A17 to move into stable, the game I'm playing in 7dtd, is an A10 game.

 

Now, there's aspects to the game that, if my own personal preferences alone were the deciding factor, would be different. The highway system I mentioned would be one (though vehicles somewhat invalidate the need for such a material now), a reason to build a big base (I can build a fully functional one in a 5x5x5 cube I reckon), dumb zombies whose primary threat is sheer numbers, smart bandits that while very rare, are way too smart for stock standard base defenses to work on, and a loot quality system that both extends far more deeply than it currently does, and also is tied very much to the difficulty to the environment in which it was obtained.

 

For example, in my A10 game, the spawning of Zombies in the cities is quadrupled (though I do turn off insta-respawn, so it is actually possible, to (eventually) clear a block of a city of zombies, if only for a day) - it also means cities are a death trap until you've really built up, but it's also the only place to get the top tier loot. Ores are isolated to a single biome type (so iron can be found only in the Forest Biome for example, and no other ore can be found there) and the armor, weapons and tools extend into "tungsten" based items, with schematics that need to be found, and bonuses conferred for their use.

 

I have always, always, been a supporter of greater player choice (so, I disagree with that presenter on that score), and while I don't want to see an in-game Options Menu that's ten thousand lines long, I would love to see as much of the games mechanics as possible moved into the XML's.

 

So, my advice (for what its worth anyway) to those with a complaint about some aspect of A17 is:

 

1) Keep it civil. Make the message content the topic of discussion, not it's delivery.

 

2) Make sure what you're complaining about can't be modded via XML edits. If it can't, then make sure to highlight that, since those sorts of complaints could be a much bigger issue (looking at you 1 LCB per player). If it can be modded, then that doesn't mean not raising the complaint but understanding then that it's the default mechanics that are the topic of discussion, not the player's choice.

 

3) Explain why you think what is wrong, is wrong. Some people have been doing this, and I personally believe that's much more valuable. Some others though, just shout and stomp up and down, and that's perfectly useless.

 

Anyway, for what it's worth, that's my opinion of the video you've linked. I agree with some of it, but not all of it. I like A17 in general, but there's aspects I'd change.

 

I'm one of the 97.78%.

[Viktoriusiii]

1) definatly. But I do understand that it can be a bit frustrating beeing shouted down when you critizise serious points. I might not always come off as the most civil, but I try to be... only when ppl say stupid things that are based on their personal feelings instead of an overarching viewpoint I get pissy

 

2) I disagree on that. Mods should be a benefit, not a requirement to good gamedesign. I don't want to mod/edit xmls. I want to play the game online and I want the game to have the basics down. And levelgating IS NOT A GOOD MECHANIC. I don't care if I can edit the gates out. It has no buisness in the game, just because TFPs ignored all the other possibilities to slow down a player.

 

3) yes. always. But "I feel its perfect so it has no flaws" is not an argument ^_^ (I don't say the things I do because I dont like the alpha... I do enjoy some parts of it! That doesn't mean that even some parts I enjoy aren't bad gamedesign and other way around)

 

 

 

One more thing:

"I have always, always, been a supporter of greater player choice (so, I disagree with that presenter on that score),"

 

you didnt quite listen I suppose... because he states MULTIPLE times that, while the player has to be protected from himself, forcing him to play in one way the dev intends is BAD. He also says that giving the player options and different incentives (scores, different rewards, more hp whatever) is the best thing you can do.

So if they dont want cavedwellers, don'T simply make digging zombies that smell you through 50 blocks of dirt, give them other incentives, like daylight raising hp or killing zombies on bloodmoon reducing gamestage or something along those lines.

But the way TFPs do it is that they do the opposite (imaginative example) they give cavedwellers less stamina, so they cant dig as much and raise gamestage for every minute you are underground. THIS is what I hate about A17.

It went backwards. It punishes people who were "trained" to enjoy these kinds of playstyles in earlier Alphas. Bad BAD gamedesign.

[Northstar63]

Voted I like it, new stuff is pretty good.

 

Things not so much liked, performance hit, yikes went down to 30fps daytime, 15fps at night without zeds. Settings set to low, difficulty dropped also. Second thing was the small swarm of zeds in most houses and POI's. It is tough going at the start, reason for difficulty drop. New computer ordered should fix fps issue. Needed an upgrade this game made me pull the trigger.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I was torn between "like it" and "love it", so I decided to be generous and go for the love option.

 

My main complaint at the moment - and this is something that I think they're already addressing - is that zombies give you far too much XP so clearing a couple of POIs can push your level (and therefore gamestage) up too quickly.

 

There are other things I don't like of course, such as the bigger emphasis on traders and quests, but that's down to personal preference (and shh... don't tell Roland, but I'm already getting used to them).

[IgnyteZero]

So I put ambivalent because I do like it, but can't see myself pouring 100s-1000s of hours into anymore. Maybe balancing will fix it, but it A17 has removed a lot of things I like, and the good it brought doesn't outweigh the removal of things for me unfortunately. I hope the balancing will change my opinion. However, it is still a fun game, but probably only for a few play-throughs for me.

 

Sort of this for me also. I mean I really like certain aspects of it and some new possibilities. At the same time, unlike any previous version, it's replayability feels more redundant for every time we restart the server. While in general fun, it's not as fun as it used to be or could be. Something got a little lost in transition sadly. But I have high hopes this will be fixed at the same time. The only question is how long it will take.

[beHypE]

Voted for mixed feelings.

 

Overall, there's a lot of good ideas, but also a lot of bad ones, or at least ideas that look bad because of how they got implemented.

 

As far as balance goes, I won't list all of the little small things I noticed because it's a WIP and a lot of things have been said already.

Some thoughts though :

- there should be a bigger difference in effectiveness when you have a higher quality tool/weapon, because more mod slots doesn't have any impact unless you have a lot of mods to begin with; in fact, early game, having a level 1 or 2 or 3 tool doesn't change anything but durability since you have no mods, and that's just bad design in my book. Also, guns should be WAY MORE RARE but more powerful.

- I've found a steel pickaxe day 2, which is a good thing because it only happened once over 5 playthroughs and felt amazing to find one, but... I was disappointed to say the least. A power attack deals 120ish damage to a block, which is obviously more than the stone axe but... it swings a lot slower and uses more stamina, and as such the effective DPS is practically the same. But we're comparing a day 1 minute 1 tool that gets crafted for next to no resources, to a high-end mining tool that needs forged steel to be crafted/repaired...

- no dismemberment before you have any perks is a shame. At least let the zombies get dismembered when it's a final blow, just for kicks.

- playing Adventurer makes the zombies sooo easy, but playing anything higher than Nomad makes the gamestage sooo high so quick

- having "random" hordes of 15 zombies spawn at 21:45 in the early days is a major no-no

 

Now as far as to the core designs I dislike :

- hunger/stamina direct link. It makes a lot of the high-end recipes a total waste (not saying they have anything over basic bacon & eggs to begin with...), because even with the slight overlap above 100% in hunger, making 30+ hunger recipes is basically shooting yourself in the foot because you'll have to play around with ~70% max stamina before you feel like you're not wasting too much food by eating it. Maybe make it so stamina loss kicks in at around 70% hunger, but depletes faster to compensate ?

- everything is behind perks. Books and especially finding Crack-A-Books were major 'YAY!!' moments during my playthroughs in the past. Only having to spend points in a specific branch to unlock close to everything doesn't yield any satisfaction compared to finally finding the book you were looking for for days. Having books also made every playthrough vastly different, depending on the schematics you'd find. Now, I can basically unlock everything at the same pace every game if I feel it's the best route to take.

- removing the gun parts made it so that there is no way to actually upgrade/combine guns. I used to love having a decent quality gun with a crappy part in it, and looking to replace that specific part to boost up the total score. Now if you have a level 3 gun, you can just toss anything below or pick it up only to sell it.

- having a global experience count/level, but having to invest in specific branches. This creates that weird "I learned a new cooking recipe by killing some zeds for exp" feeling, which feels both unfair and immersion-breaking. Even with the current balance changes that are a WIP, it won't make it better (ex : mining resources may yield more exp in the close future, but if I can invest those points in archery, it will still feel way off)

 

I love :

- the new POIs

- the stretched out early game

- the encumbrance system

 

 

Also, as a side note, I'm kinda sad a lot of A17 content is "reworks" and not much is "new content". I really thought waiting one year would reward us with late game content like bandits. The end game feels close to the same but simply takes longer to reach.

[Ghostlight]

It is unfortunate that you cannot correlate people's choice in this poll with their level in the game, because let me tell you the game has MAJOR long-term problems - but they do not become apparent until the player is around level 100. Anyone who is currently considerably lower level than that is kind of not qualified to vote in this poll.

[Viktoriusiii]

It is unfortunate that you cannot correlate people's choice in this poll with their level in the game, because let me tell you the game has MAJOR long-term problems - but they do not become apparent until the player is around level 100. Anyone who is currently considerably lower level than that is kind of not qualified to vote in this poll.

 

I only got to lvl 25 and I still see all these problems... are there even more? o_o

[OzHawkeye]

One more thing:

"I have always, always, been a supporter of greater player choice (so, I disagree with that presenter on that score),"

 

you didnt quite listen I suppose... because he states MULTIPLE times that, while the player has to be protected from himself, forcing him to play in one way the dev intends is BAD.

 

Well, you quoted exactly the bit I disagreed with and exactly why... hehe.

 

I don't think a player has to be "protected from themselves". I'll give you an example of what I mean, and state what I know to be a very minority opinion, but I think the player ought to be able to make themselves invulnerable, if, if, that's what they want to do. By that I mean, they shouldn't accidentally become invulnerable in their base due to poor AI, but if they set out to make an invulnerable base, then they should be able to do it (underground for example).

 

Even if that means the player has a "lesser experience" as defined by others, if it's what that player wants, then, by definition, it's more enjoyable for them. So, I disagreed with the presenter specifically when he said "a player needs to be protected from themselves".

[Viktoriusiii]

YEah... I think that is not the right way to do it. Well... its on a scale... not black and white.

 

A player SHOULD be able to do what he wants. But if that thing (like in 7d2d underground or on top of a lake or on stilz) is pretty easy to do (everyone can do it) and it absolutely ruins one big aspect of the game, then no. There should be mechanics in place to reward not doing it.

You shouldn't be forbidden to do it. Escpecially in a "follow up game" (like from A16 to A17, players already expect certain things). You should disincentivise them.

 

As I said, give buffs to those that fight the horde on hordenight, give boni for beeing outside (or above a certain blockheight because of lack of oxigen or something) give us an incentive to go in the poi without triggering every zombie, fighting them outside and walk through an empty poi.

You should still be able to build underground, but other things should reward you more.

This is not a pure sandbox. A pure sandbox like minecraft is a different style of game. And while the basics still apply (go underground where there are always monsters to get ressources), there a player should have the total freedom. But 7d2d tries to be a horror survival game at the same time. And "beeing 100% safe" with little effort takes away ALL the challenge.

I know its not the same and sounds clichee, but play in creative if you just want to build nice things. Because the main game should be challenging. And if I know I can simply build on stiltz and be safe forever, there is on need to prepare for hordenight, there is no need to be afraid of what you might lose... and then the horror survival part is completely gone.

 

*edit* I support the idea of giving players more options to tinker with the game (not just editing the xml and then failing to connect to any server) in menues to play the game they like.

 

But that doesn't mean that the BASE game shouldn't protect the player from himself.

[Hemfive]

In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

 

Areas to improve first:

1 - zombie pathing AI: implement more than 1 and randomize them

2 - mods: we need more access (get or craft) to them earlier

[SickPuppy]

It is unfortunate that you cannot correlate people's choice in this poll with their level in the game, because let me tell you the game has MAJOR long-term problems - but they do not become apparent until the player is around level 100. Anyone who is currently considerably lower level than that is kind of not qualified to vote in this poll.

 

Absolute rubbish. U do think highly of yourself don't u. You're telling me all those "non qualified" players hours even though it might be early stages aren't giving good feedback? Give your opinion sure, don't make it out like everybody else's doesn't matter.

 

What are these MAJOR late game problems, no end game? Able to get everything? Easy to be overpowered? U didn't realize this in A16?

[Crater Creator]

I am ambivalent. Unfortunately A17E still looks like this for me.

 

I'm unenthusiastic about playing 'for real' when it looks like this. So I'm focusing on modding for now.

[Severalboxes]

I like all the major changes.

 

Weapon mods instead of parts is great. The POIs are great. The AI is great, I really like the vultures, they keep things interesting at times. While I do miss the plains biome, the forest biome's diverse look makes up for it. The new combat is great, balance feels good.

 

The mining/building feels too nerfed right now. I'm on day 18 and haven't really built anything, which is a bummer. I just found a steel axe which helps because accomplishing anything with an iron pickaxe feels impossible. The fast swing of the iron pickaxe burns through stamina so fast you are forced to stop and wait several times a minute. It's not so much the actual rate of clearing rocks, it the disjointed starting and stopping that takes the fun out of it.

 

I really miss the working night vision goggles, especially with the new AI.

[Corbit]

Not enjoying it anywhere near as much as previous updates.

 

I don't think the new perk system has added or even enhanced gameplay at all, in fact I think it has damaged it. With things being locked behind levels it will always be a case of finding the easiest way to get those levels, thats what gamers do in games. Good luck balancing that. I also don't understand this fascination with having silly perks that remove gameplay elements or make them inconsequential. I mean parkour, really? I barely use splints as it is, whats the point of having this perk. What happened to learning to play and getting better at not falling? Wheres the risk if you don't ever break your legs? And don't get me started on recovery perks, aren't there items that you use to heal? Isn't there food to cook and drinks to make? Why do I need to make that part of the game pretty much vanish when I have all those perks? Instead of a perk for them, why not make the skills actually fun and interesting.

 

The old wellness system was great, I never wanted to die because I actually lost something I had acquired. Now I don't care, I get a boring buff which means I do nothing for an hour, it even stops me spending points. That is not good gameplay.

 

It seems to me that instead of expanding upon the mechanics and features that were already in the game, adding depth to or enhancing gameplay, you are now just adding barriers to slow players down.

 

I remember the game being a lot more fun when there were no perks. This game doesn't even need them to be a great game. Boggles my mind why there is so much focus on it.

[InuYasha]

A few things...

 

Many years ago, I played an online rpg called 'ultima online'. There were no levels, all you did increased your skills and abilities. When you went out to mine some rocks down, your skill in mining increased as well as your strength. Skills that required intelligence raised your intelligence by using those skills, and so on. That was something I liked very much. In real life it´s comparable. 'Learning by doing'.

That was one thing that made me buy this game(A16), now(A17) it´s missing.

 

I hate level-gating... I want to skill my character as I want to; if I want an incredible Hulk kicking zombie-asses, why do I have to raise int or agility (just as an example..) or must wait till level 20 or more?

 

Another point are the schematics... it makes no sense to me that those are one-time-usables.

 

I like to explore, to build and yes, to kick some zombie-asses. But I like it to 'do it my way', and I like to do these things, when I want it to do.

I don´t like to being forced to do something, or to do it a way, I don´t prefer.

I don´t like to being level-gated.

I don´t like to being pressed; I got enough stress at work, so I don´t need anymore in a game I play to relax^^

 

If zombies are hard to kill or not - I don´t care. But I do care if they´re not lootable anymore. I love to loot them, even if they have no loot.

 

Btw, did I mention that I hate level-gating?...

 

Apart of that (and a few minor things) A17 seems to be cool and interesting though.

Just my opinion to A17.

 

-Inu

 

PS: Whoever want this game to be hard - just play it so. Don´t try to take other gamers the possibility to play easier.

In example: ''Why do you want to do this and that, then the game is no challenging anymore.''

My answer: Then just don´t do it. But leave me the chance to do it so.

[Kage848]

My overall feeling? Alpha 17 is fantastic. It's still got issues but im addicted. Started a Kage Crew mp server. I have a mp server with my wife and some friends and my sp world. This week I will have about 12 videos out on YouTube. This isent just for views either, i just cant get enough of alpha 17!

 

The good.

 

-Best mp update ever. Like not even close. I'd argue the game is better mp now than sp. This is also a complaint lol. More on that later.

-Perk system. Well thought out and i love almost all the perks. Even ones I thought I wouldn't like.

-Trader quests. Just phenomenal.

-Bycicle and Motorbike. Madmole said it would handle like GTA V. I was skeptical. He was right.

-End harvest bonuses are back baby

-Farming zombies for xp

-Armor is now very helpful. I would argue nessisary.

-New dungeon crawls are dastardly evil. Having a hole in the floor we have to jump into only to find all kinds of nasty ferals and cop and stuff is bad enough. But putting destroyed wood and crap on the floor so we cant nerd poll out is just next level. Who ever is building your dungeons deserves a raise lol.

 

 

The bad

 

-Feels like the gamestage ramps up too soon

-Early game grind is painful.

-Sp needs love

 

The ugly

 

-The lag, especially on horde night.

[Ghostlight]

Absolute rubbish. U do think highly of yourself don't u. You're telling me all those "non qualified" players hours even though it might be early stages aren't giving good feedback? Give your opinion sure, don't make it out like everybody else's doesn't matter.

 

What are these MAJOR late game problems, no end game? Able to get everything? Easy to be overpowered? U didn't realize this in A16?

 

One problem is certainly having everything yes. At level 100 the player will have EVERYTHING he needs, all at top tier....

 

- All vehicles

- All weapons and Armour at tier 6

- All relevant perks maxed

- Enough mods to fill all equipment many times over

- Food no longer needed....at all

- 300k dukes and nothing whatsoever to spend them on

 

At this point, the ONLY thing that matters is paper and glue for shotgun ammo. Nothing else. There is no point in exploring. There is no point in looting. There is no point visiting traders (except to buy glue and ammo). THERE IS NO POINT.

 

And why is this any worse than A16 you rightly ask? Three reasons....

 

1) This maxed out point happens around when the player hits level 100. This will be around day 30. DAY 30!!!! The same point in A16, if it ever came at all, would be past day 100. The game just got a lot shorter.

 

2) This maxed out point is guaranteed. Everyone will get there because everything is a perk. In A16, around this time, my guns would likely be about level 300 and the hunt for gun parts would begin in earnest. In A16 I may never even get all my guns maxed, nor have everything since everything was not automatically given to the player on reaching a certain level, you had to explore and loot for it.

 

3) I have looted a grand total of half an average-size town to achieve this!!!! And this was the town I spawned in beside on day 1. I have hardly opened up any of my map at all as there was absolutely no needt. And I am maxed out.

 

A17 is for casuals who just want everything handed to them on a plate and wish to put no effort in.

 

And btw that is just one problem that won't be apparent to a player until he gets there. There are several others. One major one is the overall challenge of the game. Despite it's challenging start, A17 becomes super EASY after a couple of hordes. I mean even on max difficulty, it becomes easier than any alpha before it that I ever played. 2-shotting irradiated zombie cops? Horde finished by 11.30 and base took almost zero damage? LMAO

 

Here's another little one which is rather amusing... the Near Death trauma debuff. Completely meaningless once you are a certainly level. lol. Controlled deliberate suicide is now a method to fast travel or remove annoying crap like Infection. Even if the zombies could actually hurt me, it would't matter. ;P

[Ghostlight]

Absolute rubbish. U do think highly of yourself don't u. You're telling me all those "non qualified" players hours even though it might be early stages aren't giving good feedback? Give your opinion sure, don't make it out like everybody else's doesn't matter.

 

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.

 

My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

 

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

 

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

 

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

 

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

 

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

[Kage848]

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.

 

My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

 

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

 

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

 

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

 

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

 

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

 

So its your opinion that matter because you played more? People cant have differences of opinions? Maybe not everyone will be at end game by day 30. Different people play at different paces. I'm on day 22 and I doubt I will feel op by day 30.

 

So you played farther. But you have a skewed point of view because of your playstyle. Maybe some of us will agree with you in a week or 2. But can you please let us get there before you decide our views are lesser than yours just because you rushed through the game by day 30?

[iejen]

I like the fact that the forum looks like 90% of the users hate the game.

 

However, the polls mentions;

Haters; 25,38%

Neutral; 15,11%

Lovers; 58,84%

 

Still not the results TFP where hoping for ofcrouse.

But I think you should ask this question again 2 weeks after stable release.

[Corbit]

To directly answer your accusation....I didn't mean to come over big-headed. Of course everyone's opinions matters. But what I was trying to get at was that almost everyone who gave a positive response to this survey has likely not hit the level 100 OP point. Because once there I truly believe that everyone's opinion will become negative (or at least more negative) due to the dreadful problems that become apparent AT THAT POINT. And only at that point. They trump everything else.

 

My own personal opinion on A17 roller-coastered something like this:

 

Week 1:

omg this is hard; I have no Stamina; so frustrating; so dull too - I don't like this; POIs are a no-go, far too dangerous; how will I loot anything I need? Bullet sponge enemies? Are you serious??

 

Week 2:

OK I am getting over these problems; ooh graphics are great; my performance is way better and I can max all settings - fantastic! I like the combat now and the AI - I am fighting multiple Ferals and Cops at the same time. It is actually challenging but I can rise to it. I rock! Such smooth combat; POIs are actually fun now I can handle them; ooh I love this Motorbike; such a smooth drive. A17 is actually great!!!

 

Week 3:

I have my doubts about this perk system now; exp from zombies is forcing run and gun gameplay; not sure I like this direction. I kill zombies to become better at mining. I kill zombies to improve my weapons; I kill zombies to get more health. Hmmm. There's a bit of immersion-breaking going on here.

 

Week 4:

Holy ♥♥♥♥ I am maxed out and OP on day 30; seriously wtf; I now realize just how bad this perk system is - they have given me everything! There's no point in exploring any more. This was my favorite game ever. A16 was much more interesting than this and every run was always different, now it'll be the same every single time with everything given to me when I hit a certain level. I am now DEPRESSED. I do not see how they can fix this, with this fundamentally bad design.

 

So in theory if you gave this survey to a bunch of players who were in week 2, you'd get a glowing result for the game. However if you gave it only to players in week 4 or later, the results would be considerably worse. Who is the more informed of the 2 groups?

 

I agree with what you're saying. I am level 130 and am finding the game easy and boring now. I don't even have many of the perks which make eating/drinking/falling insignificant.

 

I found it harder at the start and thought the game was a lot better before finding out how much gameplay depth and fun the new perk system has sucked out of the game. I voted for 3rd one down, pretty sure I would have gone lower if asked after the first few hours of playing a17.