How do you like A17 experimental?

[Scyris]

The text in the picture is unreadable, maybe post it as text.

 

If you have started a new game with a new map in b208, report it in the bug thread. If not, it is entirely possible that playing a game from a previous build is producing this bug.

 

 

 

To be expected . Experimental is opt-in exactly because it is bug-infested.

 

Its pretty gross how many people do not seem to understand that, about the experemental branch, and then you have all the ones reporting bug with a large portion of them using games from b197 or b199 when they are told to start a new game on the newest build. I usually continue my old game in the previous build on the new build just to see whats broke I don't bug report it though as it was using a old save. I then tend to start a new game after messing around in the old one for an hour or so. I also restart my game before generating said new world, as that can have issues at times.

 

My current biggest issue in a17e, is the AI, sometimes zombies seem to have a switch flipped at random times when they become bascally gpsing missles and will find you no matter how quiet you are or well hidden. Record is having a zombie 100 blocks outside of the poi I was in, start to just beeline it to me all of a sudden, when I was on the second floor of a poi in total darkness, with a stealth meter of 1, he literally bee lined it from 100 blocks away right smack in front of me, i was watching that zombie ignore me for 5 mins or so before it just had some sort of random flip switched to turn it into bascally a blood moon horde zombie.

[Maxwar]

My main issue with A17 is that the game is still too easy once you know what to do.

[Scyris]

My main issue with A17 is that the game is still too easy once you know what to do.

 

This is one problem with games of any genre but especally with suvival games, once you know what your doing most of the challenge is gone, there really isin't any good way for a dev to counter this. Its why I dislike games like Ark survival evolved, or any survival game that uses a preset map, once you learn where things are it takes away alot of the challenge as you know exactly where to go to find what ya need. Its why I prefer random gen, as you never know what your going to find.

[Maxwar]

This is one problem with games of any genre but especally with suvival games, once you know what your doing most of the challenge is gone, there really isin't any good way for a dev to counter this. Its why I dislike games like Ark survival evolved, or any survival game that uses a preset map, once you learn where things are it takes away alot of the challenge as you know exactly where to go to find what ya need. Its why I prefer random gen, as you never know what your going to find.

 

I only play random gen. I can't bring myself to play Navezgane for the reasons you mentioned.

[giKoN]

Voted: In general I dislike it. It has good aspects but overall it is worse.

 

Pros:

• I do like the graphical update to 7 days (with some fixes to come)
  
• I do enjoy new POIs
  
• I do like the general concept of encumbrance with a big but: I consider the current form of encumbrance as a quick win to a greater system. Rather than limiting the amount of slots that define if a player is experiencing encumbrance it should be defined by the sum of the item's weights the player is carrying and the ability to carry more. Thus, filling my backpack with 1 feather in each slot can't possible have an equal effect as putting 40 4x4 vehicles in it. But as a quickwin - i take it.
  
• I do in general like the improvements to zombie AI and the fact that they are really a threat now - again with some fixes to come as I consider zombies to be irrationally smart right now.
  
• I do like the ability to modify guns
  
• I do like the movement of the player with slower strafing, and in general as a nude player carrying nothing - i do think the penalty for encumbrance impacts it a bit too harshly. I think shift should apply to going backwards and strafing (still at a reduced speed compared to running forward)
  
• As admin of a server I can live with the reduced map size with some improvements to RWG which supposedly are to come.
  
• I do like the stealth system with some improvements to the general stealth sensitivity of zombies.
  
• I do like some schematics to be required in the crafting process - however, some basic ones should be a one-time learning effect.
  
• 
  

 

 

Cons:

• I do not like the current level gating. Learning by donig should be the main principle for many of the skills. Running around makes you become a better athlete, mining makes you better at mining. Shooting makes you pull the gun faster or have a more steady scoping experience or better at controlling recoil. In general I do think that A16 was pretty close to what I consider best practice for a game like this.
  
• I do not like the imbalance in the gamestyle active hunter for zombies vs. passive survivalist. In my opinion only the active hunt for zombies gets rewarded - I don't think this behavior would be very rational in a survival scenario. Most likely, you would first try to acommodate, find a safe place, learn to defend, go loot for something to eat. Thus, by current balance, action-seeking players get rewarded more than those who focus on the surviving part.
  
• I do not like to eat for stamina. I think that is somewhat irrational.
  
• I absolutely hate the jumping perk. Especially since it has no relation to encumbrance. I feel like a rubber ball.
  
• I do not like the missing XP gain from other playstyles like mining. And that being said, in A16 on my server we drastically improved the XP gain from zombies to somewhat make an equal balance between the two styles.
  
• I do not like the double punishment of death trauma. My solution here would be to have a hit on the health -10, stacking and a timer of 10 minutes where you can't regain that health after latest death. Max health however remains untouched
  
• I would change the zombie block damage
  
• I don't like the amount of ressources being gathered for a relatively high effort.
  
• I do not like the limited variety in items. How many times have I experienced players looting several towns because they wanted to have the sweatshirt in a specific color?
  
• I do not like to have 4x4, bikes etc in my pocket and sell them like that. (edit: selling is not possible anymore, but i can still carry 20 4x4 in my pocket without encumbrance). I would rather have a big working station (like a garage). Like melting things in the forge, crafting e.g. the frame for a bike would go into the counter on the right. If the counter suffices, you can craft a car. That car spawns on top of the working station, you drive it around but can never put it in your pocket. Your player has vehicles bound to him such that selling at a trader requires you to park the cars in proximity of the trader, go inside, (without it in your pockets) and sell it off the parking lot.
  
• I do not like that I can still not mod a block (e.g. a working station) that actually needs to be plugged into a generator and consumes electricity.
  
• I do not like to find the same duping exploits and clipping possibilities every alpha.
  
• I absolutely don't like to be limited to one claim block. It should be up to the server settings to define an amount.
  
• I don't like to be able to craft guns.
  
• I think the weapons parts system is missing - but i can live with it.
   
  

[Randomdude]

I have 1000+ hours.

Always play single player.

Always Random Gen.

Usually default settings (maybe Air Drops ON)

 

I dislike more than what I like from A17 but many are balancing problems that I believe will be fixed before stable. Since there are 109234768712347858 post about them, I won't get into the specifics.

 

My biggest gripe is AI. I DESPISE "zombies" being "smart" enough to skip/evade traps. For me this is the deal breaker of A17.

 

The AI definitely needed a huge overhaul, which it got. (No more zombies running around in circles is great!)

 

Having zombies huddle before attacking to discuss a strategy for them to win, really disappoints me.

Spawning roaming horde your direction from time to time to "keep you on your toes"... whatever.

 

There is a TON of work remaining to balance the AI but for now I would say this is my biggest "why I don't like this Alpha" reason.

[InSanity]

I opted for:

In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

 

I like the improved graphics, new game mechanics systems, melee combat, vehicles, zombie AI, new POIs, etc.

 

The bad aspects for me atm are:

- How it runs overall (FPS indoors)

- Slow / nerfed early game (no proper options between stone tools and iron before level 20)

- Stamina balancing (imo stamina cap should not be 1:1 tied to hunger)

 

I agree with all your points except I don't mind the early game all that much, although if it was a changed a little I also would be okay with that.

[NeferPitou]

you could of just kept the zombies could get looted and don t remove it ...i played in a mooded server a pvp where everytime you loot a corp the corp will be gone to fix the duping that was going on with zombies

you could of just give some love to the pvp community who is getting destroyed by this update in every single way with this death trauma and zombies spawning out of no where while you 100% cleared zombies from POI without talking about all the glitching that people are using to not play fair and nice and most effected people are PVP because SP or PVE won t be effected by people glitching underground or duping

without talking about 1 LCB allowed in a base and no more digging at -x metter

i love the game and i truly do if just TFP would of asked the community that truly admire and have thousands of hours and believed in your project

i love a17 the graphics the optimizations ...the AI ...the quality of life.. the textures.... the vehicule

i just wanna say thank you and it s not too late a17.1 a17.2.3.4.5 is still coming try to lessen to your community and all of them PVE PVP and SP i find it hard now for people who are single player to play alone anymore because the word now is just to harsh and unforgiving

[NeferPitou]

Voted: In general I dislike it. It has good aspects but overall it is worse.

 

Pros:

• I do like the graphical update to 7 days (with some fixes to come)
  
• I do enjoy new POIs
  
• I do like the general concept of encumbrance with a big but: I consider the current form of encumbrance as a quick win to a greater system. Rather than limiting the amount of slots that define if a player is experiencing encumbrance it should be defined by the sum of the item's weights the player is carrying and the ability to carry more. Thus, filling my backpack with 1 feather in each slot can't possible have an equal effect as putting 40 4x4 vehicles in it. But as a quickwin - i take it.
  
• I do in general like the improvements to zombie AI and the fact that they are really a threat now - again with some fixes to come as I consider zombies to be irrationally smart right now.
  
• I do like the ability to modify guns
  
• I do like the movement of the player with slower strafing, and in general as a nude player carrying nothing - i do think the penalty for encumbrance impacts it a bit too harshly. I think shift should apply to going backwards and strafing (still at a reduced speed compared to running forward)
  
• As admin of a server I can live with the reduced map size with some improvements to RWG which supposedly are to come.
  
• I do like the stealth system with some improvements to the general stealth sensitivity of zombies.
  
• I do like some schematics to be required in the crafting process - however, some basic ones should be a one-time learning effect.
  
• 
  

 

 

Cons:

• I do not like the current level gating. Learning by donig should be the main principle for many of the skills. Running around makes you become a better athlete, mining makes you better at mining. Shooting makes you pull the gun faster or have a more steady scoping experience or better at controlling recoil. In general I do think that A16 was pretty close to what I consider best practice for a game like this.
  
• I do not like the imbalance in the gamestyle active hunter for zombies vs. passive survivalist. In my opinion only the active hunt for zombies gets rewarded - I don't think this behavior would be very rational in a survival scenario. Most likely, you would first try to acommodate, find a safe place, learn to defend, go loot for something to eat. Thus, by current balance, action-seeking players get rewarded more than those who focus on the surviving part.
  
• I do not like to eat for stamina. I think that is somewhat irrational.
  
• I absolutely hate the jumping perk. Especially since it has no relation to encumbrance. I feel like a rubber ball.
  
• I do not like the missing XP gain from other playstyles like mining. And that being said, in A16 on my server we drastically improved the XP gain from zombies to somewhat make an equal balance between the two styles.
  
• I do not like the double punishment of death trauma. My solution here would be to have a hit on the health -10, stacking and a timer of 10 minutes where you can't regain that health after latest death. Max health however remains untouched
  
• I would change the zombie block damage
  
• I don't like the amount of ressources being gathered for a relatively high effort.
  
• I do not like the limited variety in items. How many times have I experienced players looting several towns because they wanted to have the sweatshirt in a specific color?
  
• I do not like to have 4x4, bikes etc in my pocket and sell them like that. (edit: selling is not possible anymore, but i can still carry 20 4x4 in my pocket without encumbrance). I would rather have a big working station (like a garage). Like melting things in the forge, crafting e.g. the frame for a bike would go into the counter on the right. If the counter suffices, you can craft a car. That car spawns on top of the working station, you drive it around but can never put it in your pocket. Your player has vehicles bound to him such that selling at a trader requires you to park the cars in proximity of the trader, go inside, (without it in your pockets) and sell it off the parking lot.
  
• I do not like that I can still not mod a block (e.g. a working station) that actually needs to be plugged into a generator and consumes electricity.
  
• I do not like to find the same duping exploits and clipping possibilities every alpha.
  
• I absolutely don't like to be limited to one claim block. It should be up to the server settings to define an amount.
  
• I don't like to be able to craft guns.
  
• I think the weapons parts system is missing - but i can live with it.
   
  

 

i totally agree with this gikon as a player in your server AKA salim i understand how it is painful to find glitchers and dupers with this update without talking about the amount of time you and admin team will spend trying to balance things for both farming looting and gathering resources the leveling depends now only on killing zombies and you can t even loot them sometimes i feel sad about killing feral who will take me 50 arrow to the head without getting rewarded by something other then 1500 xp

[Moldy Bread]

It's not that great. There really is no good progression. Just feels like a zombie shooter. I'll be sticking with A16.

[OzHawkeye]

I'm pretty happy with it, but there are elements I'll be modding, so I chose the "In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved." option.

 

Edit: I do think LCB counts need to be a non-DLL edit configurable XML option though.

[lord_ahriman]

Overall A17 is a big step forward, but it really has some bad things.

 

Like

 

- Smarter zombies

- Loot is better

- Slow progression: I think it's a good thing because on A16 we were playing like God as soon as day 25 ~ 30 tops

- Living in fear: I don't care the so called "hardcore players" saying A17 it's easier, because I'm not seeing this as overall opinion. You need to play really smart before looting POI's

- Perk system: I love it, it needs some balance but it's freaking awesome

 

Hate

 

- Downgraded blocks (hp): new pathing is a threat, so we should get at least same HP as A16 (I'm ok with reinforced concrete not downgrading though)

- Traps: we need a steel option and current spikes should have more hp (damage wise it's good enough)

- XP from mining/building

- Sensing/hearing should be way less efective when player is in the underground (non horde nights, of course): I'm a builder so I need tons of materials and I really hate that I can't start mining 20 ~ 25 meters below surface because it's where we start getting good ore veins and right now I need to go 35+ meters in order to avoid zombies. And we need those ores because boulders are very few

- Concrete blocks way cheaper: as a builder, selling concrete blocks was a good way to get money and now it's gone

- Bones: no gore blocks are a big problem because killing animals and a few gore blocks on the road will not get you enough and glue is a very important commodity. Early game it may be enough, but mid - endgame we will need tons of it in order to craft duct tape and paper (not to mention new recipes, mods)

[Dawg711]

After you learn to let go of Pre Alpha 17 playstyles it is great. Tested in SP last night as usually play MP with friends on private server. It took me 2 hours to get to level 8. Now that I unstard how to use the wood club and the power attack it is so easy. Feathers are everywhere so the bow is a great help. Sure clearing buildings on your first day is harder but still able to do it. Cleared out a large tool store without dying.

 

For those that find it too hard seems that is an easy solve. Set up the difficulties so they can easily make the game what they want as we do with servers. Then they can have their building sim or their explorer game on easy difficulty and experienced players can have their hardcore. All this without having to go in and fiddle with game files. I know how to mod the game but I would rather play the game then spend time modding it and fixing what I broke.

[giKoN]

Regarding slow progression I just wanna say that after wiping the world we had 4 players with level +60 and > 500 zombie kills after day 5 of the world. It just pretty much shifted from digging in the desert to hunting down zombies. But as soon as you have your weapons skilled it's still pretty easy.

 

Thats why I think that the value in the gameplay of 7 days doesnt come from limiting the progression to "enjoy" a longer grind - but from the variety of other things to do when your level and skill is outperforming the AI and zombies.

 

One of the things to do - is PVP. Just saying.

[suicidalhamster]

In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

 

love:

-new AI

-environment

-shared exp

-specializations (really like)

 

meh:

-new weapons system (need more playtime to evaluate)

-quality system (ie:quality 1 club same stats as quality 6. again, more playtime with weapon mods might change this)

 

not so much:

-level progression (items, skills and abilities locked behind arbitrary barricades. aka "you must be this tall to ride this ride")

-other things (mainly existing bugs so not mentioning)

 

 

my opinion sits in the middle of:

-In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

and

-In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.

[Tgump]

I agree with what Dawg711 said above, I had to forget some A16 playstyles, but my vote was for "I like it."

 

What I love:

New POI's are amazing -- I love how every other building is collapsing (as they should be in a zombie apocalypse) and you really have to check every corner and be on guard at ALL times. TFP really knocked the ball out of the park with the diversity & volume of new buildings and they deserve to be commended.

 

Reworks to loot tables - there are fewer overall containers but you actually find more than 2 glass jars and rotting flesh in a kitchen now

 

Addition of modding to weapons

 

More several-story+ buildings, although the game's optimization hasn't really caught up with it yet (even in A16, my fps tanked from ~100 to 30 in the big crack-a-book frequently)

 

Quest system has lots of potential to reduce the tedium & is very easy to expand in future updates

 

New AI pathing is still not great at handling complex obstacles but is way better than in A16. No more beyblade zombies.

 

What could be improved:

 

 

!!THE PERK SYSTEM!! While I don't hate it, this new system completely removes an aspect of 7DTD that I really liked, which was that if you wanted to improve at a skill, you had to use that skill, such as mining or medicine. Here it feels like an element of player choice was taken out of the game and moved into a menu system, which reduced my immersion; if I want to get better at chopping wood with axes, my best course in A17 is to go loot POI's for experience and then buy a point that makes me better at chopping down trees. I don't have to chop down a tree at all to improve at it. That just feels silly to me.

 

Zombies flooding out of weak walls and trapping you inside a POI.. I think you should always be able to avoid a dangerous situation by making smart choices and if you ambush my poverty-stricken, wooden bow-wielding ass with 10 lumberjack zombies inside a house with no option besides bending over, it doesn't feel exciting or dangerous, it just feels like a cheap trick to make me wait X minutes for the death debuff to fade. That being said, I like the increased risk & danger of POI's -- but something like a coordinated 4-corner zombie ambush in a tiny house should never happen at level 1.

 

Item quality/durability system -- This is one of my least favorite changes. I think a 6 quality steel pickaxe should be substantially better in both block damage & durability than a tier 1 like in A16, and furthermore, be extremely rare (and impossible to craft without endgame perks). In A16 it feels so good to find a steel pickaxe at level 4 & gain partial access to areas, having to make choices on what you would explore, rationing the remaining durability of your tool. And then, later, when you're crafting high-quality steel tools like it's nothing, it also feels immensely gratifying to be able to tear through those same doors you had to whack away at or skip entirely.

 

 

 

Overall impression: Most of the changes made in A17 are a net positive, and most of my complaints are not with new sweeping framework, but minor details that will most definitely be tweaked & improved in the future. Some of these changes have made progression more linear and reduced immersion, which I dislike, but overall, TFP put a lot of work into A17 and it shows.

[Roland]

Who voted garbage? We need to get them and DaVega in a cage match!

[vonstorm]

Regarding slow progression I just wanna say that after wiping the world we had 4 players with level +60 and > 500 zombie kills after day 5 of the world. It just pretty much shifted from digging in the desert to hunting down zombies. But as soon as you have your weapons skilled it's still pretty easy.

 

Thats why I think that the value in the gameplay of 7 days doesnt come from limiting the progression to "enjoy" a longer grind - but from the variety of other things to do when your level and skill is outperforming the AI and zombies.

 

One of the things to do - is PVP. Just saying.

 

PVP is always the way to go for enemy challenge, but its also a cop out for a large portion of the gaming industry. I was at a seminar where it was lamented that the increase in PVP titles was hampering gaming AI development in general (to be honest this was a while ago). However you can imagine that AI development has been watered down because it is cheaper and easier to develop a game without AI (hence all the battle royale games) until it becomes the norm, and there is less of a pool of development to draw from, or it only gets so far "because the human opponents will be better" and the AI just runs interference.

 

The problem with alot of AI is their rigidity. They have a quarterback checkdown of what parameters to look for and how to react. If you add the random element it may make some of them do something less intelligent, but in packs (or hordes, or units, or gangs) it makes them a lot more unpredictable. Some may flank while others suppress, Some may assault, while others heal, and it will always be somewhat different and less predictable.

 

The last thing AI should do is contain parameters where its just not a good idea to engage. You need to have to evade some enemies. The sense of risk and accomplishment comes from the decision to engage or not, and surprise when they dont behave as they did last time.

[Gas]

It's pretty much like all the updates since I've been playing. I like about half of it and scratch my head at the other half of it. I voted ambivalent but that's just kinda how I feel about the base game anyway. So I play it and make it how I want. That part is awesome. Not many games you can just do whatever the hell you want to in it. Mod it, break it, cheat, play legit, creative, whatever you wanna do. I just pretend the full release was years ago and all the other updates have been mods to that. Works for me!

[Ornias]

It has turned from a mine, farm, build game to a kill everything you see game. As a solo player, I cannot even hope to start building until I really level up a bit. Since killing zombies with a club is the best way to learn archery or cooking or building vehicles....

[Thorne]

Voted "In general I dislike it", but I don't think that expresses it very well. 7D2D is my first crafting/survival game (A16, Jan 2017), and I was hooked on the merits of that alone. To me the zombies/predators are a necessary element of challenge, and the visible elements of the upcoming story ties it all together/tops it off. This game was a gem that I didn't see coming. I think I like what you guys are wanting to do, and in principle I'm certainly in favor of attaining your ultimate vision for the game, but A17 "experimental" feels like a b******ization of A16 at this point, with better graphics, some awesome improvements, and a lot of POTENTIAL. It feels like A17 took away a lot of the things I ENJOYED about A16, and left the rest in limbo. Personally I wish you'd left it in the oven for a few more months, though I know you felt pressure to release after so long--this is just too major a revision in too early a stage of completion. I think it's charitable to say this release is a recipe for discontentment. It's hard enough to justify changes this significant during the open development of a game. I was and still am determined to keep an open mind. If I were more familiar with the Fun Pimps, I'd probably be rooting for you (in-between the bouts of cursing and complaining). Now give me my G** D*** LCB's (plural) back, ya stingy m***** f***ers.

[Roland]

^^Technically it's still in the oven. You just got invited to come inside and feel the heat.

[joeevaristo]

I said "Love it," but of course there are a few things I'd like to see changed. I'm not a fan of the specific death penalty in place, I think mining stamina needs major rebalancing, terrain generation is almost there but still needs some work to get rid of the roads ending in giant walls, and I was hoping to see a hybrid of the skill systems from A16 and A17. But in the grand scheme? If it was released when the rest of the current feature set is finished, bugs are fixed, and intended balance updates are made--I'd be pretty happy overall.

[Merida]

We'll definitely do another poll a couple of weeks after stable comes out.

 

I voted unsure. After seeing Faatal's reply about A17 is not done by a long shot. I's skeptical about a live release in the coming months.

 

See you in June!

[Killerpit]

I like it for the most part one major thing i dont like is digging zombies i like my underground bunker would be nice if they added option of turning that ability off