How do you like A17 experimental?

[Ghostlight]

I play on carebear settings untill im all powerful - and this game is over too quick and is too easy!

 

Do you call Normal carebear? If so then sure. I played 2 weeks on Normal, 2 weeks on max. Shrug. So someone who actually totally played on Normal would hit 100 long before day 30, right? So the complaint is still very real, is it not? There's a guy on Steam saying he hit 100 on day 8 (!), presumably playing on less than Normal. Guess what his main complaint about the game was? Yep...."I have everything, what's the point?"

 

Your difficulty level is only going to affect when you hit level 100. The problem is simply that you are maxed out when you hit 100 whatever day it happens, and it happens much earlier than it ever would in A16. And given the max player level is 300, this is ridiculous.

 

Allowing the player to craft top tier of everything in the game just through perks is poor design and the results are obvious. You now have a casual game for casual players who just want to be given everything without effort.

[beHypE]

I've stated this before on the forums but i'll just say it again. I think a LOT of issues and bad community feedback is due to the long development/release cycles. In a year of time, there is a massive amount of work that is being done towards a certain game-play direction. You imagine a feature, implement it, then you go onto imagining and implementing another feature that relies / is balanced around the first one, and so on. You end up with a huge package that is either a huge hit or a pretty big miss. At some point you're that "deep" into that direction that you don't even see how far you strayed away from what made the game great in the first place. Once your feedback arrives, you invested so much it's hard to even fathom "rolling back".

 

It's sad to accept and I might just be proven wrong, but given how much time was invested to create the new skill/perk/gating system, the removal of schematics for most crafting recipes in favor of perk-gating everything, the new tool/weapon quality 1-6 system where only mods matter and no more parts to effectively assemble better guns over time, I just don't see a massive overhaul happening that would bring back the older system's glory (in my book at least). It would probably take a revert of months of a team's work to "restore" things and expand upon them.

 

I'll obviously give A17 stable its chance once it's released, but as of today i'm already almost convinced i'll eventually rollback to A16, even though it would suck because I actually like a decent amount of A17's features. I just don't think those outweigh the loss of many things that made the game stand out for me, especially those little random things that made me always want to create a new game to "start over and see how it goes".

 

I loved it more in its first week than I do now. Its an overall improvement, but the more you play the more you realize aside from the POIs (which i adore) and the Ai its basically the same with LESS choices and randomness.

 

So far in 4 restarts I've built the same character because its kind of how you fall into it. If you're melee you go one way and never change, if you're ranged you go one way. Buy one oerk of Chef and you're solid. Open the bag space. Rinse repeat. Blah Blah.

 

This pretty much sums up all my concerns. I realise most of the issues I have regarding A17 are actually all related towards replayability and the lack of RNG. Everything can be done in the exact same sequence, everything gets unlocked at the exact same pace because everything is behind a predictable, static level gate. Sure, you can decide to take different paths, but it's not about choosing to play differently, but more about actually having to adapt to what the world you're currently in offers you. RWG is another aspect, no more RNG of "what biome will I find over that hill ?", but only "I need a desert for Aloe, let's go south". I just don't see the replayability in A17 that A16 had, and i'm already barely looking forward to creating a new game because I feel like it won't be much different to the one i'm playing on now, aside from exploring a different area and building a different base.

[Jedo]

Your difficulty level is only going to affect when you hit level 100. The problem is simply that you are maxed out when you hit 100 whatever day it happens, and it happens much earlier than it ever would in A16. And given the max player level is 300, this is ridiculous.

 

So they should raise the level cap for top-tier stuff to 300?

[Ghostlight]

So they should raise the level cap for top-tier stuff to 300?

 

Very sadly, this seems exactly like the sort of half-arsed fix TFP will go for if they respond at all to complaints that the game is so much shorter than before (in terms of the point where the player becomes maxed out).

 

Right now they need to do something to re-instate the RNG aspect of needing to explore and loot to get what you want rather than have it handed to you at level x. Where is the joy of finding something really rare? What has the game become where the most satisfying thing I could find in a loot container right now is GLUE?! I mean WTF... or Where I'd rather find a Gore Block than a Gun Safe?

 

Can I stress once more that at level 103 and having everything there is to have in the game....I have looted one half of an average sized town (not even a city) on my map in total. Almost none of my map is explored and there is no need for me to explore it because I have everything I could ever want.

[zootal]

Strange, I just continued (a little more careful, sure, but that's it) when I had the debuff. And I'm definitely not the hardcore player playing on insane.

 

A temporary -1 or -2 on all attributes doesn't sound that horrible to me. Are you really sure sitting and waiting is your only option?

 

For some maybe. Personally, I get up and do stuff, but just have to be careful. Sometimes I'll stay inside and work on my base. Fix the broken windows, maybe work on that workshop expansion. Still - the original hour long nerf was just too over the top, and even a half hour for those of us that have RL obligations that limit our gaming time, is too much. But I'm not saying anything that hasn't been beaten to death in these forums already.

 

I lean towards the Leroy Jenkins approach. It's more fun, though it does cause a higher death rate. It's just how I like to play.

[Jedo]

Can I stress once more...

 

Seems like [we'll have to agree to disagree].

[JCrook1028]

Agree.

I understand that they wanted to redesign the Navezgane towns and the new POIs are fantastic work. But what did speak against leaving the replaced classic house POIs in for more variety and a somewhat easier tier of lootable places in random gen?

 

Agreed. While the new dungeon POI's are interesting they are far to common. Cut the % down by 50% or so and imo you're getting closer to what feels right. I may or may not even do one of each of them. I never did all the highrises either. The only Highrise I ever did more than once was the Crack a Book tower. I can almost guarantee I'd never do a new dungeon POI more than once. No need to. No desire to.

[meganoth]

Right now they need to do something to re-instate the RNG aspect of needing to explore and loot to get what you want rather than have it handed to you at level x. Where is the joy of finding something really rare? What has the game become where the most satisfying thing I could find in a loot container right now is GLUE?! I mean WTF... or Where I'd rather find a Gore Block than a Gun Safe?

 

I'll say that until I have played the game to a high level this is something I can't judge. But just looking at what the perks and attributes give you at max I can make a good guess that perks really need some toning down and all kinds of mods need to supply what is removed that way (which would make scavenging and RNG important again and add variation to playthroughs)

 

I also think that considering we are in the middle of much balancing and TFPs assurance that the mods now in the game are just the first wave I don't even think I need to find out the answer to this question.

 

I know this will change. A18 will probably see an explosion of new items and my bet is that the hot topic of A18 will be the size of the backpack !

[Doctor3D]

Balance and progression are the primary issues of A17 for me. This is not just simply a result of it being still in experimental, either. The perks themselves are just too OP in how they are designed and the top tier ones need to either be entirely done away with or made only for specialization.

 

The current state of my character: Gamestage is around 600:

 

-I rarely need to eat

-I rarely need to drink

-I rarely get tired

-Weather has no effect on me at all

-I never have to manage inventory or make decisions about it

-Even if I did - Well, I NEVER have to loot - if I don't have it - I can just make it (Cars and Trash is where the necessary loot is now)

-Zombies cannot stun me

-Zombies cannot infect me

-Zombies can beat on me for actual seconds before I even get nervous

-Zombies have not killed me

-I one-shot most all of them with a modded magnum and maxed gunslinger -shoot the norms get the bonus then shoot the ferals.

-I almost instantly heal after a hit and have used less than a dozen or so bandages in the entire play-through

-Zombies don't stand a chance in breaching my base - they'd rather just beat on a random pillar and pile up in the same area making it easy to just blow them all up.

 

 

The game starts out slow and a bit tedious. I didn't mind it too much, but I could see and understand the complaints. But, once you started to level - the progression infinitely accelerates and it becomes over all too quick. The game is like a firework right now. Just a quick bang and then you're already at end-game.

 

The perks are just too much. Many of the perks take away most of the mechanics in the game. Once you max them out - half of all the features in the survival game no longer are relevant to you.

 

So not only does some serious balance need to be applied in terms of loot, crafting, zombie threat, etc - but the top tiers of the perks themselves need to be reconsidered or possibly limit the maximum of the most OP ones to a specialization class for each.

[Ghostlight]

Seems like [we'll have to agree to disagree].

 

[Yes. Let's just do that.]

[Ghostlight]

The current state of my character: Gamestage is around 600:

 

I agree with everything and am experiencing the same. What level are you, what difficulty and what day? GS 600 sounds really high (isn't it near the max? a level 300 player who hadn't died for 300 days would have 600 on normal I think??)

 

Anyways, I ask because I had a faint hope that as my GS rose further my feeling of super OPness at level 100 would perhaps depart, but your post dashes that hope.

[Roland]

-I rarely need to eat

-I rarely need to drink

-I rarely get tired

-Weather has no effect on me at all

-I never have to manage inventory or make decisions about it

-Even if I did - Well, I NEVER have to loot - if I don't have it - I can just make it (Cars and Trash is where the necessary loot is now)

-Zombies cannot stun me

-Zombies cannot infect me

-Zombies can beat on me for actual seconds before I even get nervous

-Zombies have not killed me

-I one-shot most all of them with a modded magnum and maxed gunslinger -shoot the norms get the bonus then shoot the ferals.

-I almost instantly heal after a hit and have used less than a dozen or so bandages in the entire play-through

-Zombies don't stand a chance in breaching my base - they'd rather just beat on a random pillar and pile up in the same area making it easy to just blow them all up.

 

This pretty much sums up what some % of players want to be able to attain by Day 3...

[PoppaTot]

This pretty much sums up what some % of players want to be able to attain by Day 3...

 

You'd think as a Super Moderator you would let the arguments go instead furthering them with statements like that.

 

However; I agree that some just want "easy mode" flipped on, that doesn't mean you should instigate them lol

[Roland]

You'd think as a Super Moderator you would let the arguments go instead furthering them with statements like that.

 

However; I agree that some just want "easy mode" flipped on, that doesn't mean you should instigate them lol

 

Poppa...I've moderated this forum for little over three years now pretty much the same way. I know my style won't please everyone and I'm not concerned much by those who can't handle a little good-natured ribbing (my comment wasn't even aimed at a particular person). I joke around a lot and I poke fun at conventions and false assumptions. My expectation is that people who come here think that the fun subject of this forum is a zombie video game and not some solemn subject like brain cancer research or family support for diabetics.

 

So when a golden moment like Doc's post comes up that allows me to poke fun at the desire of some to be able to rush to that character state during the first week of the game while at the same time hopefully driving home the point of the necessity of having some kind of gating/pacing mechanism to prevent players from ascending to godhood too early (if ever)-- Whelp, I am what I am and I'm gonna take it. If my personality ever leads to my dismissal as a Super Moderator then so be it.

 

Mod the forum. Add me to your ignore list.

[PoppaTot]

Mod the forum. Add me to your ignore list.

 

Way to make people feel welcome, kudos to you

[Krougal]

The issue for me is that for some odd reason every Alpha the time it takes seems to be dwindling. I thought A16 was horribly short on playtime to end game and the first week of 17 i was applauding the slower progression. Until I realized it was all a parlour trick. Its no longer. Go out and kill zeds and you can be level 60 plus by day 21, probably sooner. And the loot it outrageous. In 2 loot rns you can have all you need weapon wise to never have t loot again. Just mine for the bullets.

 

Its not that we expect more its that we didn't expect the game to get shorter as time went on, with so many removed and streamlined features.

 

You and I been playing this game since 2015! It's a long time. Yes, I am averaging 3 levels a day and I'm sure I could level faster if I pushed it harder. Others do, and even on harder difficulty than I play. New players are probably not going to level as fast as us.

 

It depends what you consider endgame too. For me endgame is enjoying the fruits of my labors, being maxed out (although I was bored with any single A16 playthrough long before I could max out without cheating) having a huge ornate base full of traps and chests of loot, big farm, etc. Granted that gets boring after a bit for me and then it's time to fresh start, but then that is what makes me hate level grinding to begin with, cause it's always the same thing.

 

Some people their game doesn't really start for them until they get to that stage; when they've turned survival mode into creative mode by conquest. The "builders" probably are not even close to bored at the same point you and I are.

[Doctor3D]

I agree with everything and am experiencing the same. What level are you, what difficulty and what day? GS 600 sounds really high (isn't it near the max? a level 300 player who hadn't died for 300 days would have 600 on normal I think??)

 

Anyways, I ask because I had a faint hope that as my GS rose further my feeling of super OPness at level 100 would perhaps depart, but your post dashes that hope.

 

I just loaded it up to be more accurate. My GS is actually 520 not 600. I am level 147. The difficulty is currently set to Survivalist. I started A17 at lower difficult to get a feel for it. Though probably should just leave on Insane. I figure most people are going to eventually be playing insane to try to get a threat out of it. Far more players would probably play A17 on Insane than any other after you perk up, at least. In A16 on insane the zombies took way too long to kill which would make the looting very tedious shooting the same zed over and over. But, in A17 you can take them down much faster now.

 

The thing is the dungeon POIs can actually be a lot of fun. I've had a good time going and doing the quests - especially at first when there was still a little threat. I took everything really quiet and cautious - laid down traps, etc I liked it. I loved having to be careful and taking each room quietly so you didn't wake up all those ferals and cops all at once. But now..I can just run through them like I'm playing Quake.

 

I have died 1 time - and it was because I accidentally bumped the E button when learning to fly the Gyrocopter - fell to my death.

[PoppaTot]

Some people their game doesn't really start for them until they get to that stage; when they've turned survival mode into creative mode by conquest. The "builders" probably are not even close to bored at the same point you and I are.

 

That's kind of how I feel now, I really do enjoy A17e (with gripes of my own, but I won't keep beating the dead horse. Devs know what different parts of the community want and now we wait to see what they decide for stable) but I haven't felt like the fun part has started until around level 70 for me when I've surpassed the level locks need (for me at least) to start building a big base and can mine at a reasonable pace.

[Doctor3D]

That's kind of how I feel now, I really do enjoy A17e (with gripes of my own, but I won't keep beating the dead horse. Devs know what different parts of the community want and now we wait to see what they decide for stable) but I haven't felt like the fun part has started until around level 70 for me when I've surpassed the level locks need (for me at least) to start building a big base and can mine at a reasonable pace.

 

Yeah, but that's kind of part of the problem. You can't really enjoy building to around level 60. But, by that time - you're already starting to become a zombie killing machine and the incentive to build is less than it should be. I've got lots of concrete and steel cooked up and in a box - but haven't had much desire to do any building like I normally would by now. I'm still at the same little horde base I threw together on day 14 - just with steel upgrades thrown on it now.

 

That goes with the balance and progression issue I have. There is too much emphasis on being a strong combat character before building even truly begins.

 

We need a more spread out age-system in this game. Wood should be viable for a while, stone should be viable for a while, concrete should be viable for a while, and then steel at the end.

 

The zombies we get at early game stage should have a harder time breaking wood than the later game stages where they could then chew threw it like paper and you better have stone, etc. This would greatly lengthen the progression curve and make building with different materials and advancing through tech levels more logical and fun. (in my opinion).

[Boa_2K7]

Expand Control of Time-Flow

 

Love this game, big improvement over A16! I would like to see a different implementation of time-flow though. Being able to set the period of time for day individually from night would be awesome, much like ARK and some other games do. I find the simple 24-hour period takes X realtime hours and Y hours of daylight is rather limiting. I'd love to be able to provide long days on my server with reasonable nights, particularly given the changes that IMO extend gameplay, generally in a good way. If anyone knows of a mod that does this, please direct me to it. =)

[Kamuchi]

A16.4, engine update, alot of balancing and vehicles would have been awesome.

 

Gun crafting, no more weapon parts: no reason to explore.

Weapon mods with each 6 level the same damage: silly and no reason to explore.

GPS zombies, zombies in ceilings everywhere?? and POI zombie overload with crappy loot: no reason to explore.

Skill gating: I liked A16.4 alot more, you needed some skills but were free to do what ever you wanted, after upping max level to 300, extending nub days to 2 week, no thanks.

World generating was nice in A16.4, tweaked the xml a bit and had 3 cities and 25x25km world, this random with desert-forrest-snow is sooo boring and lame.

Mining speed is horrible, I quit.

Mining and all the cave-ins: A16.4 you could atleast mine with the random cave-in of death.

Bedrock to +3: super lame.

Mining zombies: I go underground when I can't do surface stuff, need resources or don't want to play with zombies, screwed up: check, stupid slow mining and digging zombies? delete game as we ain;t getting an improved balanced A16.4 as most were expecting.

 

Vehicles are nice, kinda slow for their hilarius sound and in SP I did up the 4x4 to 19,23 and it was fun.

So far only thing good about this update is the upgraded engine and vehciles.

 

Thanks for the 1772 hours of fun, but time to remove this game and move on...

[Roland]

Thanks for the 1772 hours of fun, but time to remove this game and move on...

 

Not even going to wait to see what official A17 will be like? You did get your money's worth so that's good. But this response is mostly why the dev's keep the test builds away from the public. Good fortunes in your future gaming.

[gotitdone]

My 7 year old computer would not run A17 at a playable frame rate, after finally breaking down and buying a new GPU I was able to play.

 

I'm currently on day 6, so still new to 17. My biggest gripe so far is too many zombies. Not overly difficult, but tedious (read boring) clearing out so many dead with weak weapons. Hitting them over and over and over again while they stand in line is not fun and trying to take them out inside the buildings is asking for death.

 

 

The other issue I have is what to do at night...without a forge and the stamina issue (and lack of mining helmet light) makes underground mining frustrating that doesn't leave much else to do early stage.

[Corbit]

My 7 year old computer would not run A17 at a playable frame rate, after finally breaking down and buying a new GPU I was able to play.

 

I'm currently on day 6, so still new to 17. My biggest gripe so far is too many zombies. Not overly difficult, but tedious (read boring) clearing out so many dead with weak weapons. Hitting them over and over and over again while they stand in line is not fun and trying to take them out inside the buildings is asking for death.

 

 

The other issue I have is what to do at night...without a forge and the stamina issue (and lack of mining helmet light) makes underground mining frustrating that doesn't leave much else to do early stage.

 

I recommend finding a house or trader with a working forge, at least you can then start piling in the resources ready for when you're allowed to make stuff. I just started a new game and found a house with a forge in the first 10mins, got that feeling of joy and then I realised I couldn't use it. Such a let down. Found 2 traders down the road both with working forges, game definitely taking the piss. Played for about 2 hours and got bored, it was more fun than continuing playing the previous level 130 game but there is just nothing interesting to look forward to.

[Kamuchi]

Not even going to wait to see what official A17 will be like? You did get your money's worth so that's good. But this response is mostly why the dev's keep the test builds away from the public. Good fortunes in your future gaming.

 

The direction they are taking it is clearly not on improving the A16 with redoing half the game over again with stuff that worked but just needed more balancing.

I could play it for another 1772 hours and keep recommending it, but this just became fortnite/battle royal with zombies, everything regarding building/crafting/mining got dumbed down into just boring.

Any reason for exploring got removed and the world is bland, what was wrong with A16 world generator? I remeber that was being a pain in the rear to begin with and now *delete* for no reason.

 

It's like the devs forgot that the builders under us who don't care about pvp or zombies half the time were like "Nope! here's more zombies for ya that beat through concrete like magic and dig into your underground workplace in 30 seconds!".

Yup, this forced zombie dealing clearly isn't for me.